Not to attempt to burst your neutronium alloy bubble, but I recently did an Infected Elite Space mission and my PUG team only had one good Escort, 2 Carriers (the Kitty Kind), I think a Sovvy Cruiser, and me in my Bortas. We not only finished the mission, but we got the optional as well.
I know this doesn't go with the current topic you're talking about, just something I wanted to share.
You know, you keep communicating in a perplexingly combative and disjointed way. Here you say you are "bursting my neutronium alloy bubble," though... you're not. You aren't making any case for cruisers at all. If you had completed the optional with nothing but cruisers, fed cruisers to be specific, as we already covered how the bortas is the closest approximation of what a cruiser should be, you could have been making an attempt at bursting my bubble. We already established earlier in the thread that if you replace just two out of a team of all cruisers with escorts you can make optional, THAT is how much better escorts are. And in your story, you've replaced THREE cruisers with better ships. Carriers are kick *** in stf. So, again, exactly how are you bursting my bubble?
The one problem with this is you are basically asking for:
a) More Tac slots on the cruisers. The only one with a LTC Tactical Slot (not universal) is the Excelsior and I have seen people turn that ship into a respectable Tactical Cruiser.
b) Have cruiser on the Fed side be able to equip Dual Cannons and Heavy cannons. The only cruiser that can do that Fed side is the Galaxy-X and I see more hate about this ship than cruisers in general. KDF has it made because most of their cruiser can mount Dual Cannons and do reasonably well.
c) More Tactical Consoles. I see that as the chief problem with the gimped damage abilities of cruisers. One of a few reasons why my Bortas can do a lot of damage for a cruiser is because Cryptic deemed for it to posses 4 tactical consoles (or 5 for the Bortas Tactical Cruiser) at the cost of Science Consoles (which I can live with)
Are any of these things right about what you wish to see?
You said you see a problem, but no where in the rest of your post do you actually list a problem or why something is a problem, you essentially ended up asking some questions. And when I answered those questions, you didn't respond with any problem there. So why the hostile, combative language?
"You are stupid and absolutely wrong, and here's why: You know, I had a great day at work today, my launch was awesome and no one broke the copy machine. How was your day?" That's how you sound, it's totally disjointed. My observation isn't meant as an attack... just... not sure if you realize how you're coming across.
You know, you're absolutely right. I tend to be negative on the forums much more than I am in game. In another post I mention a LONG history with Cryptic and their '**** you' attitude toward their playerbase. It is possible that I'm just tired of them getting a hold of a good concept or IP and then failing to live up to that IP's potential.
This is one of the most recognizable and profitable IPs in television/cinematic history. It might as well be Superman. And yet there are flaws so fundamental in the framework of the game that it's beginning to feel like we're being steered into WoW mechanics and roles.
I.
Hate.
That.
I thought the Champions framework after their rebuild was kind of genius, to be honest. No defined roles, MASSIVE replayability because of that, and a solid, sturdy foundation which they've steadily improved on for a good while now. I would very much love some of that positive direction and more proactive design philosophy applied to this game. Instead, I get a Catbox, gambling, deceptively presented and timegated psuedocontent and ships so crippled it baffles me that people just accept it.
This is star trek?
So, I really do apologize if my posts here on the forums seem unduly harsh, I really need to start being more constructive in my posts. I honestly want to see Cryptic break out of the mold they've established and really hit a home run with this. I'm kind of desperate for them too, actually. Whoever is coming up with the fundamental concepts of a lot of their games is brilliant, but in application they all seem to fall short.
The Cruisers thing is a big issue to me, because I don't want to be forced to play a tactical officer in an escort in order to be efficient and effective, and yet, having leveled first a sci and then an eng, and over the past week a tac, I can say that tactical officers hands down are the most efficient and effective.
Escorts perform above and beyond what is capable for most cruisers, and from my perspective I find that an enormous failure of design. I didn't grow up watching Star Trek: Defiant. I don't remember that ever being a show. There was a defiant in DS9, but it wasn't the focus. The Enterprises, Voyager, those were what the shows were about, the ships themselves were like part of the cast. Invalidating both of those ships types (the science ships moreso than the cruisers, but both are still woefully inadequate) you kind of pigeonhoe people into being tac/escort. I see probably three or four times as many tacs as any other, and it's not hard to see why.
There is nothing wrong with being harsh, that's how you let them know how incredibly wrong they've gotten something. If you aren't outraged, they'll shrug it off... though they very well may shrug it off anyway. All you have to do to turn your posts constructive is to include how the situation might be remedied. Even if the solutions we propose don't ultimately work out, or work their way into the game, at least we are contributing to the process of trying to make the game as great as it should be. I feel this game has a lot of potential, and alot of things are just fine if not great, there are just a few fundamental, terrible flaws that I think could easily be corrected.
You know, you keep communicating in a perplexingly combative and disjointed way. Here you say you are "bursting my neutronium alloy bubble," though... you're not. You aren't making any case for cruisers at all. If you had completed the optional with nothing but cruisers, fed cruisers to be specific, as we already covered how the bortas is the closest approximation of what a cruiser should be, you could have been making an attempt at bursting my bubble. We already established earlier in the thread that if you replace just two out of a team of all cruisers with escorts you can make optional, THAT is how much better escorts are. And in your story, you've replaced THREE cruisers with better ships. Carriers are kick *** in stf. So, again, exactly how are you bursting my bubble?
Also, you said:
You said you see a problem, but no where in the rest of your post do you actually list a problem or why something is a problem, you essentially ended up asking some questions. And when I answered those questions, you didn't respond with any problem there. So why the hostile, combative language?
"You are stupid and absolutely wrong, and here's why: You know, I had a great day at work today, my launch was awesome and no one broke the copy machine. How was your day?" That's how you sound, it's totally disjointed. My observation isn't meant as an attack... just... not sure if you realize how you're coming across.
Actually, I really didn't know I came across that way. Perhaps it's because my mind runs faster than I can pick out certain thoughts and put them together. Maybe I'm in denial of the Escort classes, "WTFIAMAWESOMEPEWPEWPEWNESS!!!!!"
Maybe I'm just irredeemably loony. Regardless, because of my attempts at an argument, it is safe to assume I suck at debates.
Then again I've never really played a Fed Cruiser anyway. My cruiser gameplay is satisfied with the KDF because when it comes to cruisers, theirs is downright better than the Feds. I am pretty sure you cannot deny that.
On a side note: combative language cannot really be translated onto typed letters except with exclamation points, cursing, or all caps. At least I think that way.
I'm a Klingon eng captain (theorist + accurate) flying currently a Bortas'Q command cruiser which is specced for support. So I rarley go out to trying to kill something on my own. However, after so many negative feedback here I wanted to see for my self if it is true that cruiser cannot beat anything and did some Kerrat PvP.
I recommissioned my Vor'cha cruiser, eqiuping it with 3 borg MKXI dual beam disruptor and 1 MK XI plasma-disruptor DHC in the front, and 3 dirsuptor turrets back + 1 mine (chroniton / tractor beam). Rest borg set and the MKXI honor guard shield. So my overall eqipment was ok, but not top.
I set course to Kerrat and tried my best. After some hours PvP I have to say, that everything negative in this thread is true. Cruisers, even offensive cruisers like the Vor'cha, have serios problems killing something that is not afk. In contrast, "something" has serios problems in killing cruisers.
The most remarkable fight I had was feeled 10 min against a duo Exelsior + Defaint. I could not deliver enough damage to kill any of them. However, I also realy wasn't under pressure by them either. The fight was ended by the Kerrat mission's completion ...
I found out that, even not "heavily" specced for it, I can take plenty damage tanking up to 2 ships or even 3 for a short period (Or 5-6 cruiser haha). If I do no mistake, I'm even unkillable by fed balls, handling the damage for a short time until my escape powers are up, then re-routing energy to engines/shields and using evasive manouvers + "these escape console from the Federation whose name I forgot" to kite, recloak and regenerate. I died only 1 times.
The main problem of my Vor'cha was that I did substained damage, but was not capable to do some burst to finish off the target. Maybe if I replace FaW with BOI + BO II combined with nadion inversion their might be a small chance, but still nothing compared to an alpha strike of a tac escort. However, even than I had problems killing escorts, because I miss alot (even with all weapons Acc + accurate trait) and they move too fast to target them long enough to do damage, even in a Vor'cha with a good turn rate.
I would like to see more offensive engineering skills, replacing usless skills such asboarding party. Make BO an engeneering skill
PS: found out that the Bortas'Q beam boat is much more effective dealivering dmg over time than the dual beam Vor'cha.
and that makes me sad... don't get me wrong, cruisers can be quite nice PVE, particularly where there is no time limit. They can take a tremendous amount of punishment and take their time killing off whatever mess they flew straight into, but in stfs where getting it done fast is key, cruisers just really don't have it. And when it comes to PVP, the most cruisers can hope to do is survive, they can't really bite back. In 1v1 pvp, a properly built escort will tear a cruiser up and quite effortlessly tank the damage a cruiser, heck, several cruisers can do. I've flown my bop into a ball of fed cruisers and been accused of hacking because i built my bop to be able to tank damn near as well as a cruiser while doing far superior damage. And the only time an escort ends up "piddling about with just its turrets" (as some cruiser lovers say) is only against another escort where they dog fight, each trying to keep out of the others cannon arcs while simultaneously trying to keep the enemy in theirs. Otherwise most escorts do what I call the "park and pwn" where they stop or significantly slow down (most easily done against slower ships like cruisers) and just blow the TRIBBLE out of a shield facing and then the exposed hull underneath. I have even park and pwnt the tac cubes in stfs while tanking them... IN A BOP.
The game's balance is quite off, and it saddens me, because cruisers shouldn't just be damage sinks and traditional mmo tanks that have "taunt" skills (starship threat control) with low damage and lots of health. Do you think the enterprise E would be flying around, barely doing any damage to a cube trying to "distract it" while extending its shields to the defiant to let it kill the cube for it? No.
In trek lore, the defiant, and escorts in general, were starfleet's way of fielding more firepower without the tremendous expense and resources that would go into full blown cruisers. They are basically the equivalent of taking the weapons of a crusier, and the engines of a cruiser, strapping them together, and sending them into battle without the rest of the ship.
Both ships should be able to do excellent damage, comparable damage, and I mean comparable within the same time frame. None of this "escort shreds enemy in two volleys, cruiser takes 2 minutes." TRIBBLE. The only difference there should be between the two is that the cruiser is slow and, while easy to hit, can take alot of punishment, while the escort is supposed to be much faster, maneuverable, and evasive, so that it can avoid damage and take advantage of enemy weakness by having better ability to get into position to do so. An escort 's primary defense should be evasion, keeping moving. It should never, EVER, be able to park and pwn or slow to a crawl without getting easily blown out of the sky.
So, while I really, really wish I could love my cruisers, particularly the odys (holy TRIBBLE that's a pretty ship) I bought, I don't. I'm not satisfied with pve traditional mmo tanking in a star trek game (the pve content is so limited and pretty lame anyway) nor can I trick myself into thinking: "I'm content with my role, playing a healer/damage sink." like most people who say they like cruisers have. Really? REALLY?! There is no "healer class ship" in star trek, in first contact, did the crews of those poor, tattered ships think: "Thank god the enterprise has arrived to extend its shields!" or "Yay! The enterprise will distract and meatshield us from the cube while we do all the damage!" no! they thought: "Thank god the enterprise is here to pwn this cube's face!" Nor am I happy to simply absorb the damage of 1-5 attacking ships in pvp, only to not have enough damage to destroy a single one of them... unless they happen to be super, I mean SUPER noob.
I don't want to take any of the awesome away from escorts, I just think their awesome should be tweaked to match star trek canon and cruisers fixed to not be so sucktastic. And this mmo shouldn't be trying so hard to copy the typical mmo formula. Each ship should be able to take care of itself, there should be no need to form a group of healer+tank+dd's. Every ship should be able to tank, escorts should evasion tank, cruisers should meat shield/defense tank, and sci ships should be somewhere in the middle. Every ship should do the same amount of damage, escorts in reasonable bursts with cannon attack runs (a la defiant) or more traditionally (a la prometheus), cruisers should not suck with few tac consoles and few, low level tac skills, nor should sci ships for that matter. Only being able to fire 3 torps in a volley? seriously? Voyager could do and did better than that. Though admittedly, sci normal-damage output should be balanced with their sci damage/crowd control skills.
There are many, MANY ways to fix the problems with this game, but that'd be a whole other novel which I shall, perhaps, write later.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. A well done Cruiser build rocks, and I still do better with a Cruiser than any other ship type in the game (I have a 50 Engineer <--- Main, only uses Cruisers; and a Level 50 Tac (In a Defiant Retrofit); and while I know many a player that loves the escort DPS an manuverability, I mysrelf enjoy and do better with Cruisers.
I guess it all comes down to playstyle in a lot of respects, but I've never felt Cruisers suck myself.
Cruisers if flown properly are certainly not inepet. I fly a gal x and hold aggro and deal out tons of punishment.
So what that the turn rate is loweer then all other classes. Use a tractor beam and lock all weapons,,it works wonders. The ability to take a beating also allows one to dish out dps.
I fly more cruisers then any other class and the biggest problems I see with cruisers that pop so easy is the INEXPERIENCE of their captains.
On the same captain I am speccd to also fly the new cruiser of the tac variety and still have no issues holding aggro and or taking punishment and offer dps in return.
The major weakness of a cruiser is turn rate. Use tractor beams or things that slow/stop the mobs in their tracks.
Another lesser weakness is the 4 and 4 slots available for weapons......do not fill them with 8 beam arrays or your dps potential is lessened to a small extent. Use some mine or torps or better yet do as I do. 2-3 turrets in the back and 3 duals in the front coupled with a mine and torp. Mines are often overlooked.
Against mobs who get in your grill mines work wonders when coupled with torps and beams/turrets......if they are very close the mine home in on them and do great damage.
Also manage your energy well.....switch between offensive and defensive as needed.
Your blanket staement does not hold any merit IMO. It is more likely you need cruiser class 101.
If you need some help look me up and I will offer help . I am in game often.
Nope ,I use both,So I will rephrase it.The escort is the guy who gets KOed in allout barfight unless he runs out the backdoor.The cruiser is the guy still standing after slugging it out for the duration.A lack of patience,and running a cruiser like a escort is folly.I love my escorts, but I enjoy the cruisers as well.Its just a different style of tactical usage.
I'd say that the Escort is the guy who throws one (usually good) punch, runs out of the backdoor, runs back in a minute or two later, throws another punch, runs out the back door........ and so on...
My Galaxy (with saucer sep) Cruiser can deal out more damage than most escorts I fly with
and definately more than the carriers
I now have a better understanding of why that is
the Carriers fighters follow the LEAD Ships target (not the launching ship)
And if the lead ship just sits there at respawn the fighters go and orbit round it
but what you write here is 100% dependend on the player using the ship.
In general, a carrier+fighters has more weapons than a cruisers...ergo more overall dmg.
An escort has/ or should have more focused dmg than a cruiser...that doesnt mean escorts deal overall more dmg, but generally they do.
At the end of PVP matches there is a list of dmg and healing done, and there is hardly ever a cruiser on top, if there was 1 good escort in the game.
so looking at potential dmg: escorts deal the most, carriers also have a high potential as do cruisers, but they don't have have the focus or burst.
even sci ships, which i consider the last in dmg dealing can deal good dps, as torpedo boats paired with the coresponding abilities.
So threads like this motivated me to hop out of my escorts/BoPs and back into cruisers (on the characters I can, anyway). I evaluated my boff choices from before, did some tweaking, and well I sure do enjoy having team heals and the ability to hold my own in DPS (hell my Galor I think out-DPSs a lot of the escorts I run across). It's pretty fun tanking a tac cube or Donotra for my teammates, too.
So, thanks for rekindling my like of cruisers beyond just healing.
Then you, sir, are one escort that will never be receiving heals from me.
in pve I dont need any heal from cruisers, with my escort I can solo and destroy a cube in elite stf in about 30 sec.
I try to do the same with a cruiser, it took 2min to kill a cube. So the answer is so obvious , cruiser sux in pve.
For exemples, in elite stf if your team got more than 3 cruisers , you can almost never get the optionnal, when a team of full escorts will succeed all optionnal mission and still have 5 min.
In the words of the internet, you are doing it wrong.
Do STFs require a Cruiser tank? No.
Do STFs require anything in particular? No, actually.
Will 5 well played Tac/Escorts mow through Elite STFs in record time? Yes.
Will 5 well played ???/??? ships fail Elite STFs? No.
Only bad players suck, the STFs could use a bit more tweaking to allow for more ways to leverage Cruiser survivability & healing - and especially Sci Ships/Sci Boff powers (who have more systemic issues than Cruisers in PvE, this does not include Carriers because they are incredibly powerful) - but this nonsense of 3 cruisers = autofail is more a statement about the player making it as well as most of the players in this game, and has a lot less to actually do with the ships themselves.
As a Long time Escort Tactical Captain, I thank my lucky stars that cruisers are around to heal me so I can do may do my job!
There is no I in TEAM.
Not to mention, if a team is set up right, the fire support they lend is good too. Escorts can open up a target with its DHC/DC and Cruisers (especiall with those that have a Lt. and Ensign tactical) can use HY1 to lob torps and other skills/weapons to finish the job.
Not to mention, if a team is set up right, the fire support they lend is good too. Escorts can open up a target with its DHC/DC and Cruisers (especiall with those that have a Lt. and Ensign tactical) can use HY1 to lob torps and other skills/weapons to finish the job.
DO not forget the overlapping Extend shields that help keep those Escorts alive.
At the end of PVP matches there is a list of dmg and healing done, and there is hardly ever a cruiser on top, if there was 1 good escort in the game.
.
Experience tells me you have that backwards, if there is even one competent cruiser there is no way an escort will be top damage and/or healing
DO not forget the overlapping Extend shields that help keep those Escorts alive.
I would bet a lot of the "cruisers suck" crowd don't actually heal others all that much, OR, only heal with weapons on auto without any powers boosting damage.
Can you tell me a bit more about what you mean TSS thank you.
Transfer Shield Strength. It's a self and ally Shield heal and resistance buff. I really like Extend Shields more than TSS (mostly because it's not Aux dependent) but the longer range (10km vs 7.5km) makes it easier to use with an Escort pilot who may not be paying as much attention as you'd like.
They're both powerful buffs however and definitely worth carrying if you want the option to heal and buff others.
I would bet a lot of the "cruisers suck" crowd don't actually heal others all that much, OR, only heal with weapons on auto without any powers boosting damage.
I'd say that's a pretty safe assumption. I usually use only Escorts so never take Threat Generation but all my characters have a fully geared Cruiser for when I feel like a change and it's amazing the number of tells you receive when you heal someone. I had one guy in a Defiant R in an STF last week that followed me everywhere because I kept hitting him with ES, ET3 and HE when he needed them. As repayment I was never threatened by a single Borg NPC because he'd already killed them for me (he must have really liked those heals). I really should try running a dedicated Engineer Cruiser character so I can take Threat Generation too, do the heal boat thing properly.
Transfer Shield Strength. It's a self and ally Shield heal and resistance buff. I really like Extend Shields more than TSS (mostly because it's not Aux dependent) but the longer range (10km vs 7.5km) makes it easier to use with an Escort pilot who may not be paying as much attention as you'd like.
They're both powerful buffs however and definitely worth carrying if you want the option to heal and buff others.
TSS is self and ally heal...extend shields is only for ally. i highlighted it, because it is the most convincing point about it.
Extend shields is a cool ability for a supporter, but if you intend to tank stuff with your cruiser it is useless.
TSS is self and ally heal...extend shields is only for ally. i highlighted it, because it is the most convincing point about it.
Extend shields is a cool ability for a supporter, but if you intend to tank stuff with your cruiser it is useless.
I agree.
For tanking on Elite STFs, if you have threat generation you will likely be the only one with it.
As most people don't even build support ships for support, you pretty much need to have your own healing covered.
PvP is obviously different, as PC enemies can just ignore you if your a non-threat, self healing focused Cruiser.
TSS is self and ally heal...extend shields is only for ally. i highlighted it, because it is the most convincing point about it.
Extend shields is a cool ability for a supporter, but if you intend to tank stuff with your cruiser it is useless.
I don't tank anything, as I mentioned in my previous post I only use a Cruiser when I want a change from my primary Escorts so don't take Threat Control (too much of a liability in an STF when Pugging with my Escort). With that being the case I have little choice but to support and TBH the STFs usually go much better for the Escorts being able to stick around longer and kill there targets faster.
I just wish more Cruisers supported the Escorts so that I didn't also have to try and tank an elite Tac Cube in a Tac/ Fleet Escort, all the time surrounded by Cruisers with 100% hull and shields and idle heals.
wall of text there, i didnt read it but from the title you probably got the idea that cruisers are not for you? then change ship or class to one that works, i actually like cruisers; beam boats, torpedo boats, rainbow cruisers, healer boat, tank, threat grabber... especially in the hands of an engineer with the right BoFF skills .
Comments
You know, you keep communicating in a perplexingly combative and disjointed way. Here you say you are "bursting my neutronium alloy bubble," though... you're not. You aren't making any case for cruisers at all. If you had completed the optional with nothing but cruisers, fed cruisers to be specific, as we already covered how the bortas is the closest approximation of what a cruiser should be, you could have been making an attempt at bursting my bubble. We already established earlier in the thread that if you replace just two out of a team of all cruisers with escorts you can make optional, THAT is how much better escorts are. And in your story, you've replaced THREE cruisers with better ships. Carriers are kick *** in stf. So, again, exactly how are you bursting my bubble?
Also, you said:
You said you see a problem, but no where in the rest of your post do you actually list a problem or why something is a problem, you essentially ended up asking some questions. And when I answered those questions, you didn't respond with any problem there. So why the hostile, combative language?
"You are stupid and absolutely wrong, and here's why: You know, I had a great day at work today, my launch was awesome and no one broke the copy machine. How was your day?" That's how you sound, it's totally disjointed. My observation isn't meant as an attack... just... not sure if you realize how you're coming across.
There is nothing wrong with being harsh, that's how you let them know how incredibly wrong they've gotten something. If you aren't outraged, they'll shrug it off... though they very well may shrug it off anyway. All you have to do to turn your posts constructive is to include how the situation might be remedied. Even if the solutions we propose don't ultimately work out, or work their way into the game, at least we are contributing to the process of trying to make the game as great as it should be. I feel this game has a lot of potential, and alot of things are just fine if not great, there are just a few fundamental, terrible flaws that I think could easily be corrected.
Actually, I really didn't know I came across that way. Perhaps it's because my mind runs faster than I can pick out certain thoughts and put them together. Maybe I'm in denial of the Escort classes, "WTFIAMAWESOMEPEWPEWPEWNESS!!!!!"
Maybe I'm just irredeemably loony. Regardless, because of my attempts at an argument, it is safe to assume I suck at debates.
Then again I've never really played a Fed Cruiser anyway. My cruiser gameplay is satisfied with the KDF because when it comes to cruisers, theirs is downright better than the Feds. I am pretty sure you cannot deny that.
On a side note: combative language cannot really be translated onto typed letters except with exclamation points, cursing, or all caps. At least I think that way.
I recommissioned my Vor'cha cruiser, eqiuping it with 3 borg MKXI dual beam disruptor and 1 MK XI plasma-disruptor DHC in the front, and 3 dirsuptor turrets back + 1 mine (chroniton / tractor beam). Rest borg set and the MKXI honor guard shield. So my overall eqipment was ok, but not top.
I set course to Kerrat and tried my best. After some hours PvP I have to say, that everything negative in this thread is true. Cruisers, even offensive cruisers like the Vor'cha, have serios problems killing something that is not afk. In contrast, "something" has serios problems in killing cruisers.
The most remarkable fight I had was feeled 10 min against a duo Exelsior + Defaint. I could not deliver enough damage to kill any of them. However, I also realy wasn't under pressure by them either. The fight was ended by the Kerrat mission's completion ...
I found out that, even not "heavily" specced for it, I can take plenty damage tanking up to 2 ships or even 3 for a short period (Or 5-6 cruiser haha). If I do no mistake, I'm even unkillable by fed balls, handling the damage for a short time until my escape powers are up, then re-routing energy to engines/shields and using evasive manouvers + "these escape console from the Federation whose name I forgot" to kite, recloak and regenerate. I died only 1 times.
The main problem of my Vor'cha was that I did substained damage, but was not capable to do some burst to finish off the target. Maybe if I replace FaW with BOI + BO II combined with nadion inversion their might be a small chance, but still nothing compared to an alpha strike of a tac escort. However, even than I had problems killing escorts, because I miss alot (even with all weapons Acc + accurate trait) and they move too fast to target them long enough to do damage, even in a Vor'cha with a good turn rate.
I would like to see more offensive engineering skills, replacing usless skills such asboarding party. Make BO an engeneering skill
PS: found out that the Bortas'Q beam boat is much more effective dealivering dmg over time than the dual beam Vor'cha.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. A well done Cruiser build rocks, and I still do better with a Cruiser than any other ship type in the game (I have a 50 Engineer <--- Main, only uses Cruisers; and a Level 50 Tac (In a Defiant Retrofit); and while I know many a player that loves the escort DPS an manuverability, I mysrelf enjoy and do better with Cruisers.
I guess it all comes down to playstyle in a lot of respects, but I've never felt Cruisers suck myself.
Then you, sir, are one escort that will never be receiving heals from me.
So what that the turn rate is loweer then all other classes. Use a tractor beam and lock all weapons,,it works wonders. The ability to take a beating also allows one to dish out dps.
I fly more cruisers then any other class and the biggest problems I see with cruisers that pop so easy is the INEXPERIENCE of their captains.
On the same captain I am speccd to also fly the new cruiser of the tac variety and still have no issues holding aggro and or taking punishment and offer dps in return.
The major weakness of a cruiser is turn rate. Use tractor beams or things that slow/stop the mobs in their tracks.
Another lesser weakness is the 4 and 4 slots available for weapons......do not fill them with 8 beam arrays or your dps potential is lessened to a small extent. Use some mine or torps or better yet do as I do. 2-3 turrets in the back and 3 duals in the front coupled with a mine and torp. Mines are often overlooked.
Against mobs who get in your grill mines work wonders when coupled with torps and beams/turrets......if they are very close the mine home in on them and do great damage.
Also manage your energy well.....switch between offensive and defensive as needed.
Your blanket staement does not hold any merit IMO. It is more likely you need cruiser class 101.
If you need some help look me up and I will offer help . I am in game often.
Explain how I top the damage and survivability (healing) charts in anything I do when I do fly my tactical cruisers
and definately more than the carriers
I now have a better understanding of why that is
the Carriers fighters follow the LEAD Ships target (not the launching ship)
And if the lead ship just sits there at respawn the fighters go and orbit round it
I'd say that the Escort is the guy who throws one (usually good) punch, runs out of the backdoor, runs back in a minute or two later, throws another punch, runs out the back door........ and so on...
but what you write here is 100% dependend on the player using the ship.
In general, a carrier+fighters has more weapons than a cruisers...ergo more overall dmg.
An escort has/ or should have more focused dmg than a cruiser...that doesnt mean escorts deal overall more dmg, but generally they do.
At the end of PVP matches there is a list of dmg and healing done, and there is hardly ever a cruiser on top, if there was 1 good escort in the game.
so looking at potential dmg: escorts deal the most, carriers also have a high potential as do cruisers, but they don't have have the focus or burst.
even sci ships, which i consider the last in dmg dealing can deal good dps, as torpedo boats paired with the coresponding abilities.
So, thanks for rekindling my like of cruisers beyond just healing.
in pve I dont need any heal from cruisers, with my escort I can solo and destroy a cube in elite stf in about 30 sec.
I try to do the same with a cruiser, it took 2min to kill a cube. So the answer is so obvious , cruiser sux in pve.
For exemples, in elite stf if your team got more than 3 cruisers , you can almost never get the optionnal, when a team of full escorts will succeed all optionnal mission and still have 5 min.
In the words of the internet, you are doing it wrong.
Do STFs require a Cruiser tank? No.
Do STFs require anything in particular? No, actually.
Will 5 well played Tac/Escorts mow through Elite STFs in record time? Yes.
Will 5 well played ???/??? ships fail Elite STFs? No.
Only bad players suck, the STFs could use a bit more tweaking to allow for more ways to leverage Cruiser survivability & healing - and especially Sci Ships/Sci Boff powers (who have more systemic issues than Cruisers in PvE, this does not include Carriers because they are incredibly powerful) - but this nonsense of 3 cruisers = autofail is more a statement about the player making it as well as most of the players in this game, and has a lot less to actually do with the ships themselves.
There is no I in TEAM.
Not to mention, if a team is set up right, the fire support they lend is good too. Escorts can open up a target with its DHC/DC and Cruisers (especiall with those that have a Lt. and Ensign tactical) can use HY1 to lob torps and other skills/weapons to finish the job.
DO not forget the overlapping Extend shields that help keep those Escorts alive.
Experience tells me you have that backwards, if there is even one competent cruiser there is no way an escort will be top damage and/or healing
I would bet a lot of the "cruisers suck" crowd don't actually heal others all that much, OR, only heal with weapons on auto without any powers boosting damage.
I'm more of a TSS thrower myself.
Transfer Shield Strength. It's a self and ally Shield heal and resistance buff. I really like Extend Shields more than TSS (mostly because it's not Aux dependent) but the longer range (10km vs 7.5km) makes it easier to use with an Escort pilot who may not be paying as much attention as you'd like.
They're both powerful buffs however and definitely worth carrying if you want the option to heal and buff others.
I'd say that's a pretty safe assumption. I usually use only Escorts so never take Threat Generation but all my characters have a fully geared Cruiser for when I feel like a change and it's amazing the number of tells you receive when you heal someone. I had one guy in a Defiant R in an STF last week that followed me everywhere because I kept hitting him with ES, ET3 and HE when he needed them. As repayment I was never threatened by a single Borg NPC because he'd already killed them for me (he must have really liked those heals). I really should try running a dedicated Engineer Cruiser character so I can take Threat Generation too, do the heal boat thing properly.
TSS is self and ally heal...extend shields is only for ally. i highlighted it, because it is the most convincing point about it.
Extend shields is a cool ability for a supporter, but if you intend to tank stuff with your cruiser it is useless.
I agree.
For tanking on Elite STFs, if you have threat generation you will likely be the only one with it.
As most people don't even build support ships for support, you pretty much need to have your own healing covered.
PvP is obviously different, as PC enemies can just ignore you if your a non-threat, self healing focused Cruiser.
I have it as well on my current build, though I use it more in combination with TT1 to help rebuild shields under fire.
quoted for truth..healing wise
I don't tank anything, as I mentioned in my previous post I only use a Cruiser when I want a change from my primary Escorts so don't take Threat Control (too much of a liability in an STF when Pugging with my Escort). With that being the case I have little choice but to support and TBH the STFs usually go much better for the Escorts being able to stick around longer and kill there targets faster.
I just wish more Cruisers supported the Escorts so that I didn't also have to try and tank an elite Tac Cube in a Tac/ Fleet Escort, all the time surrounded by Cruisers with 100% hull and shields and idle heals.
wall of text there, i didnt read it but from the title you probably got the idea that cruisers are not for you? then change ship or class to one that works, i actually like cruisers; beam boats, torpedo boats, rainbow cruisers, healer boat, tank, threat grabber... especially in the hands of an engineer with the right BoFF skills .
And trying to keep aggro off the glass cannons.
That being said -- I far prefer the less cow-like-steering of KDF cruisers.