It's not a huge issue for Tribble, but by the time we go to F2P, something will be done to impede the use of Exchange banking for duty officers, if only for the obvious business ramifications..
I'll be honest... I am guilty of doing this right at this very moment, but it's not because I want more or don't like the 100 limit. It's because when I get new doffs I want to see if the're are something I want. There is no way to see what's in the cadre or what doffs and their ability and traits you get in the rewards sections.
If you are already at the 100 DOff cap you can't view them or anything... so how do i know which officers I would like to re-assign or discard if I would like to make room for the new guys? Maybe I would like to keep one of them and discard the rest? Exchange banking is the only solution at the moment.
1. Temporarily put some doffs on the exchange for an absurd value
2. Complete the blocked assignment.
3. Review new DOffs
3. Discard/Reassign doffs to make room
4. Remove DOffs from exchange.
We NEED some sort of on-boarding temporary storage space so we can review, accept or turn away DOffs, or dismiss/reassign old ones. DOffs left in this space get auto reassigned after 24 hrs or something. I can expand my roster with C-Store credits all I want... the problem does not go away when I hit cap. And just like with inventory space or bank space, there will be a limit on how much you can buy so the cap will never really go away, it will just get higher... database storage and my pockets are not limitless.
I'll be honest... I am guilty of doing this right at this very moment, but it's not because I want more or don't like the 100 limit. It's because when I get new doffs I want to see if the're are something I want. There is no way to see what's in the cadre or what doffs and their ability and traits you get in the rewards sections.
If you are already at the 100 DOff cap you can't view them or anything... so how do i know which officers I would like to re-assign or discard if I would like to make room for the new guys? Maybe I would like to keep one of them and discard the rest? Exchange banking is the only solution at the moment.
1. Temporarily put some doffs on the exchange for an absurd value
2. Complete the blocked assignment.
3. Review new DOffs
3. Discard/Reassign doffs to make room
4. Remove DOffs from exchange.
We NEED some sort of on-boarding temporary storage space so we can review, accept or turn away DOffs, or dismiss/reassign old ones. DOffs left in this space get auto reassigned after 24 hrs or something. I can expand my roster with C-Store credits all I want... the problem does not go away when I hit cap. And just like with inventory space or bank space, there will be a limit on how much you can buy so the cap will never really go away, it will just get higher... database storage and my pockets are not limitless.
it would be cool if you could accept or reject the random doffs in some type of holding pen. Having even a 5 person standby queue would be cool.
A standby queue would be ideal, but there have been some technical complications making this challenging to implement effectively. It's something we are continuing to look into, however.
I still don't think it will be a big 'needs to be addressed now' issue at all.
Sure, there will be exchange banked duty officers in the start.
But take a look at their big cousins the boffs. Query the exchange for very rare 'tac' 'eng' & 'sci' boffs.
Out of 397 hits for purple sci only 4 of them are exchange banked right now. the 400 displayed tacticals end just shy of 10mil. the 400 displayed engineers don't even go above 1mil. I would have to refine my search for species to find more exchange banked boffs.
Let's do that for saurians:
Saurian tac: 3 of 72 exchange banked.
Saurian sci: 6 of 65 exchange banked.
Saurian eng: 3 of 87 exchange banked.
Those are (obviously) all efficient, still considered the most valued trait on boffs. Opposed to those 'banked' boffs there are at least a dozen available for grabs on each branch.
I can imagine at least half a dozen things that need more coding time on top of my head instead of having to figure out a non trivial solution to a problem that will converge towards zero given enough time.
it would be cool if you could accept or reject the random doffs in some type of holding pen. Having even a 5 person standby queue would be cool.
It would have to be as large as the biggest assignment reward or cadre - I think this is currently 7 for the C-store packs. Because of the store implications, making it more awkward to use store packs is clearly not a good idea, I am sure that Heretic can find a good solution.
I also find this awkward and have abused the exchange in this way - though we are limited to 20 exchange entries so the abuse can't get too bad. It is also a problem if I want to use the exchange for its intended purpose.
A related issue, which I know is being worked on, is the colonists (refugees also, except that those bums never seem to leave the ship no matter how often I try to resettle them ). Although they can be useful as fodder on some missions, freeing up regular doffs for some real work, managing space for them has also become a pain.
Hopefully they'll figure out something for the 'using Exchange as a bank' soon. It's not just a problem with Doff's, although they seem to be the most abused right now.
Perhaps a fee to post, and a time limit on posts wouldn't be bad. Would cover everything, not just Doff's, and make using the Exchange as a bank extension cost prohibitive in the long run. Of course the problem with that is once something expires, and is de-listed, where does it go? And what measures could be put in place to ensure that method isn't used as a bank storage, while also being fair to the casual player who may not be online but once or twice a week, or off for periods of time due to vacations, etc....
As was also pointed out, I too would like some kind of 'screening' of what Doff's are coming in with a C-Store pack, cadre mission reward, etc... It would be more realistic, and make it easier on players. Nothing like needing some science officers on a ship, and getting 5 chef's. Or my favorite, getting 'twins' on the ship. Given the in-game reaction to the player as they gain reputation and rank, it seems backwards that their requests for duty officers would be randomized.
Admiral Quinn: "We're going to assault the Borg, I need additional security officers on my flagship"
New Doff: "Entertainer Bob reporting for duty!"
A related issue, which I know is being worked on, is the colonists (refugees also, except that those bums never seem to leave the ship no matter how often I try to resettle them ). Although they can be useful as fodder on some missions, freeing up regular doffs for some real work, managing space for them has also become a pain.
I agree, colonists and refugees are sort of a commodity, but can be cannon fodder as well so they need to count in the roster. It stinks having to keep space for them as they come and go, but I guess that's part of the game.
Why is this a problem? People who list at 999,999,999 don't want to sell, and nobody wants to buy at that price. Because everything is ordered by price, they don't squeeze out legitimately listed DOffs. Putting fees on transactions just hurts the legitimate users.
The current plan has been to allow players to purchase additional reserve roster space from the C-Store in the same way that you can currently buy more regular inventory space from the C-Store
A couple of weeks (?) ago, I believe you mentioned that the idea was to increase Doff spaces inline with player rank. Has that idea been dropped now?
I don't know about STO, but in other games with an auction house / exchange, players are usually limited in the number of items they can sell (again with more slots for sale in the online store if wanted).
Why is this a problem? People who list at 999,999,999 don't want to sell, and nobody wants to buy at that price. Because everything is ordered by price, they don't squeeze out legitimately listed DOffs. Putting fees on transactions just hurts the legitimate users.
The reason is quite obvious...
Using the Exchange as an extended Bank for your Toon was never meant to be it's purpose.
Especially so with the DOff system...
The DOff system at this point, is set up for you to have and be able to use 100 DOffs...
NOT 101+ those that you stick on the exchange for your use later.
That is called an Exploit, and was never meant to be a part of the game play mechanic.
** i didnt read page 4 of this thread, just skipped to last page (did read 1-3) **
someone suggested to have a separate exchange for doffs.
i like this idea. i was very frustrated last night when i tried to find an advisor, but had to sift through 8 pages trying to find one.
a separate exchange for doffs would simplify this process, you would be able to search by specialization, traits etc.
i also agree that doffs placed on exchange should still count towards the max amount you can have, ie 100.
only once they are sold would it free up space on your doff roster.
that is how it works in real life, only if a position becomes available can you look for someone to fill it.
i dont mind selling doffs. reason being this: recruitment agencies get paid to find a suitable applicant for a company. i see the exchange as a recruitment agency. the person who sells the doff is the recruitment agency. that gets paid for offering YOU the recruit you want.
Using the Exchange as an extended Bank for your Toon was never meant to be it's purpose.
Especially so with the DOff system...
The DOff system at this point, is set up for you to have and be able to use 100 DOffs...
NOT 101+ those that you stick on the exchange for your use later.
That is called an Exploit, and was never meant to be a part of the game play mechanic.
I use the mail to store stuff, is that an exploit you want to take away also?
As for the exchange, your solution to the "problem" is to penalize legitimate users so that you don't have to get mad that someone is expanding their inventory by 20 units.
I can say that DOFFs at a price of 11701 or 21701 sell pretty well. If you're looking for the quick buck and not the big buck, neat. And probably a more realistic price as well. I wonder how many people haven't figured otu yet that you can regularly request new DOFFs at the Academy?
The current plan has been to allow players to purchase additional reserve roster space from the C-Store in the same way that you can currently buy more regular inventory space from the C-Store.
It's not a huge issue for Tribble, but by the time we go to F2P, something will be done to impede the use of Exchange banking for duty officers, if only for the obvious business ramifications.
The exact solution is TBD, since there are a lot of technical issues with some of the ideas that have been put forth, both internally and by the playerbase.
What I'm confused about really is this, what good is there in storing doffs on the exchange if only to store really good ones. In other words, are there really so many awesome doffs that people are bursting out the seams and spilling over into the exchange over? As far as I can guess, people are just storing on the exchange to save for a rainy day. Personally I can't be bothered. If some doffs die, I can get a cadre really fast to fill it up. So really this issue is only an issue of the better doffs, and assuming we're all stuffed to the gills in the best doffs out there. Again, not sure if this is whats going on... If not, it seems a pointless exercise really. One would hope we can post doffs on the exchange. I hate tax systems. if they impose taxes, I just won't sell on the exchange. That's been my response to city of heroes and their annoying as hell exchange and enhancement system.
As a side note to this, one thing I truly hate on city of heroes is the ridiculous grind fest required to get PVP Io's (a form of enhancement not unlike our Beam arrays, engines etc). I only bring this up to make a point in our game. They need to be very careful about making an item so difficult, that the only people who actually get it, are the ones who cheat to get it, or the ones who have to set up their characters afk for months to acquire. One thing I've come to love about STO is that a character build is the most important thing, and it wasn't preposterous and ludicrous to actually gear yourself out. I've had fun with the game, I continue to have fun with the game. I've never been a big fan of 'ludicrous gear'. In the end, it usually means the botters and the cheats win the day... and is that what we want here? PvP io's are a prime example on City of heroes. They've made the effort to kit yourself out in Pvp equipment so ridiculous, I actually quit doing pvp on that game. Sure, my items are halfway decent, but the whole exercise simply became onerous and frankly not fun. Lets make the acquisition of gear actually fun on this game... and that is a large part of I believe the problem with the heavy dilithium cost assigned to Crafting. Anomaly hunting is a time sink in and of itself. By adding dilithium, you essentially make it impossible to have a player dedicated in crafting. Most people who love crafting want to do more crafting, they don't want to do more of everything else. Making it possible for players to be niche in what they enjoy is vital.
Again this issue of niche play is important in another regard. The new BORG stf equipment includes items which obviously will be desired in pvp. Particularly on the Klingon side. I haven't spoken around too much about it, but if I had to guess, a lot of those guys really don't want to have to work their *** off repeating the borg stf's to get themselves kitted for pvp. Not at the extent that is asked of them. Yes, they will do it, but the question is: Will they enjoy it? Some might. If people aren't enjoying the game they will leave the game. I'd rather that there were alternate ways to acquire some equipment of this nature, perhaps in a pvp manner (kerrat anyone?) that would make it viable for those players to stick with what they love about STO.
This seems rather roundabout I realize, and almost tangential but it isn't entirely. Tax systems are not fun. Where does this tax go? Does it do anything? Does it even fit in a Star Trek universe? I'd rather find some other way to lock down these doffs than a tax. I'd also personally like to not see Dilithium tied up in EVERYTHING. I'm not entirely sure why Merit and Honor have been done away with. You don't get more bridge officers because you have a fat stack of dilithium, you get the good BOFFS because they hear about such and such captain and fight to get on that ship, because of what? oh yeah: MERIT AND HONOR.
Personally, I feel if Merit and honor are being taken out, that Latinum has no place either. The Marks of this and that were utterly pointless. Doing away with Merit and Honor though is likewise utterly pointless. We don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater.... I guess that sums up my thoughts on this.
I don't want to see the game change so much come f2p that I don't even recognize it. I want this game to still feel free and open and lighthearted as it always did. I recognize the need for dilithium to attract f2p customers to put some money into the game, and I can respect that. I just don't want to see the fundamentals of the game getting squashed either. I'm not all doom and gloom, just throwing my two cents in here, on a few issues that ... now that I find myself posting on them I'll create their own forums on. Sorry for all the rambling. I'll stop now.
I don't honestly see much of a problem with this. Is it what the exchange is for? Not really, no. But they either price it so high it won't show up in searches, and no one can buy it, or they price it in a way that might sell.
The other thing that makes this a non-issue is that you only have limited exchange slots. If you want to actually sell stuff, well.. can't use it all as storage.
Comments
I'll be honest... I am guilty of doing this right at this very moment, but it's not because I want more or don't like the 100 limit. It's because when I get new doffs I want to see if the're are something I want. There is no way to see what's in the cadre or what doffs and their ability and traits you get in the rewards sections.
If you are already at the 100 DOff cap you can't view them or anything... so how do i know which officers I would like to re-assign or discard if I would like to make room for the new guys? Maybe I would like to keep one of them and discard the rest? Exchange banking is the only solution at the moment.
1. Temporarily put some doffs on the exchange for an absurd value
2. Complete the blocked assignment.
3. Review new DOffs
3. Discard/Reassign doffs to make room
4. Remove DOffs from exchange.
We NEED some sort of on-boarding temporary storage space so we can review, accept or turn away DOffs, or dismiss/reassign old ones. DOffs left in this space get auto reassigned after 24 hrs or something. I can expand my roster with C-Store credits all I want... the problem does not go away when I hit cap. And just like with inventory space or bank space, there will be a limit on how much you can buy so the cap will never really go away, it will just get higher... database storage and my pockets are not limitless.
it would be cool if you could accept or reject the random doffs in some type of holding pen. Having even a 5 person standby queue would be cool.
Sure, there will be exchange banked duty officers in the start.
But take a look at their big cousins the boffs. Query the exchange for very rare 'tac' 'eng' & 'sci' boffs.
Out of 397 hits for purple sci only 4 of them are exchange banked right now. the 400 displayed tacticals end just shy of 10mil. the 400 displayed engineers don't even go above 1mil. I would have to refine my search for species to find more exchange banked boffs.
Let's do that for saurians:
Saurian tac: 3 of 72 exchange banked.
Saurian sci: 6 of 65 exchange banked.
Saurian eng: 3 of 87 exchange banked.
Those are (obviously) all efficient, still considered the most valued trait on boffs. Opposed to those 'banked' boffs there are at least a dozen available for grabs on each branch.
I can imagine at least half a dozen things that need more coding time on top of my head instead of having to figure out a non trivial solution to a problem that will converge towards zero given enough time.
It would have to be as large as the biggest assignment reward or cadre - I think this is currently 7 for the C-store packs. Because of the store implications, making it more awkward to use store packs is clearly not a good idea, I am sure that Heretic can find a good solution.
I also find this awkward and have abused the exchange in this way - though we are limited to 20 exchange entries so the abuse can't get too bad. It is also a problem if I want to use the exchange for its intended purpose.
A related issue, which I know is being worked on, is the colonists (refugees also, except that those bums never seem to leave the ship no matter how often I try to resettle them
Perhaps a fee to post, and a time limit on posts wouldn't be bad. Would cover everything, not just Doff's, and make using the Exchange as a bank extension cost prohibitive in the long run. Of course the problem with that is once something expires, and is de-listed, where does it go? And what measures could be put in place to ensure that method isn't used as a bank storage, while also being fair to the casual player who may not be online but once or twice a week, or off for periods of time due to vacations, etc....
As was also pointed out, I too would like some kind of 'screening' of what Doff's are coming in with a C-Store pack, cadre mission reward, etc... It would be more realistic, and make it easier on players. Nothing like needing some science officers on a ship, and getting 5 chef's. Or my favorite, getting 'twins' on the ship. Given the in-game reaction to the player as they gain reputation and rank, it seems backwards that their requests for duty officers would be randomized.
Admiral Quinn: "We're going to assault the Borg, I need additional security officers on my flagship"
New Doff: "Entertainer Bob reporting for duty!"
I agree, colonists and refugees are sort of a commodity, but can be cannon fodder as well so they need to count in the roster. It stinks having to keep space for them as they come and go, but I guess that's part of the game.
A couple of weeks (?) ago, I believe you mentioned that the idea was to increase Doff spaces inline with player rank. Has that idea been dropped now?
I don't know about STO, but in other games with an auction house / exchange, players are usually limited in the number of items they can sell (again with more slots for sale in the online store if wanted).
That was in regards to the active DOFF roster slots (which is still in the works), not the reserve roster size.
The reason is quite obvious...
Using the Exchange as an extended Bank for your Toon was never meant to be it's purpose.
Especially so with the DOff system...
The DOff system at this point, is set up for you to have and be able to use 100 DOffs...
NOT 101+ those that you stick on the exchange for your use later.
That is called an Exploit, and was never meant to be a part of the game play mechanic.
someone suggested to have a separate exchange for doffs.
i like this idea. i was very frustrated last night when i tried to find an advisor, but had to sift through 8 pages trying to find one.
a separate exchange for doffs would simplify this process, you would be able to search by specialization, traits etc.
i also agree that doffs placed on exchange should still count towards the max amount you can have, ie 100.
only once they are sold would it free up space on your doff roster.
that is how it works in real life, only if a position becomes available can you look for someone to fill it.
i dont mind selling doffs. reason being this: recruitment agencies get paid to find a suitable applicant for a company. i see the exchange as a recruitment agency. the person who sells the doff is the recruitment agency. that gets paid for offering YOU the recruit you want.
I use the mail to store stuff, is that an exploit you want to take away also?
As for the exchange, your solution to the "problem" is to penalize legitimate users so that you don't have to get mad that someone is expanding their inventory by 20 units.
A separate exchange isn't needed, just a decent search engine. This has been needed for BOffs for a very long time now.
As if 10 or 20 DOffs on the exchange will give you any advantage over other players. :rolleyes:
Unless you're a participant in the race for all DOff accolades of course.
What I'm confused about really is this, what good is there in storing doffs on the exchange if only to store really good ones. In other words, are there really so many awesome doffs that people are bursting out the seams and spilling over into the exchange over? As far as I can guess, people are just storing on the exchange to save for a rainy day. Personally I can't be bothered. If some doffs die, I can get a cadre really fast to fill it up. So really this issue is only an issue of the better doffs, and assuming we're all stuffed to the gills in the best doffs out there. Again, not sure if this is whats going on... If not, it seems a pointless exercise really. One would hope we can post doffs on the exchange. I hate tax systems. if they impose taxes, I just won't sell on the exchange. That's been my response to city of heroes and their annoying as hell exchange and enhancement system.
As a side note to this, one thing I truly hate on city of heroes is the ridiculous grind fest required to get PVP Io's (a form of enhancement not unlike our Beam arrays, engines etc). I only bring this up to make a point in our game. They need to be very careful about making an item so difficult, that the only people who actually get it, are the ones who cheat to get it, or the ones who have to set up their characters afk for months to acquire. One thing I've come to love about STO is that a character build is the most important thing, and it wasn't preposterous and ludicrous to actually gear yourself out. I've had fun with the game, I continue to have fun with the game. I've never been a big fan of 'ludicrous gear'. In the end, it usually means the botters and the cheats win the day... and is that what we want here? PvP io's are a prime example on City of heroes. They've made the effort to kit yourself out in Pvp equipment so ridiculous, I actually quit doing pvp on that game. Sure, my items are halfway decent, but the whole exercise simply became onerous and frankly not fun. Lets make the acquisition of gear actually fun on this game... and that is a large part of I believe the problem with the heavy dilithium cost assigned to Crafting. Anomaly hunting is a time sink in and of itself. By adding dilithium, you essentially make it impossible to have a player dedicated in crafting. Most people who love crafting want to do more crafting, they don't want to do more of everything else. Making it possible for players to be niche in what they enjoy is vital.
Again this issue of niche play is important in another regard. The new BORG stf equipment includes items which obviously will be desired in pvp. Particularly on the Klingon side. I haven't spoken around too much about it, but if I had to guess, a lot of those guys really don't want to have to work their *** off repeating the borg stf's to get themselves kitted for pvp. Not at the extent that is asked of them. Yes, they will do it, but the question is: Will they enjoy it? Some might. If people aren't enjoying the game they will leave the game. I'd rather that there were alternate ways to acquire some equipment of this nature, perhaps in a pvp manner (kerrat anyone?) that would make it viable for those players to stick with what they love about STO.
This seems rather roundabout I realize, and almost tangential but it isn't entirely. Tax systems are not fun. Where does this tax go? Does it do anything? Does it even fit in a Star Trek universe? I'd rather find some other way to lock down these doffs than a tax. I'd also personally like to not see Dilithium tied up in EVERYTHING. I'm not entirely sure why Merit and Honor have been done away with. You don't get more bridge officers because you have a fat stack of dilithium, you get the good BOFFS because they hear about such and such captain and fight to get on that ship, because of what? oh yeah: MERIT AND HONOR.
Personally, I feel if Merit and honor are being taken out, that Latinum has no place either. The Marks of this and that were utterly pointless. Doing away with Merit and Honor though is likewise utterly pointless. We don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater.... I guess that sums up my thoughts on this.
I don't want to see the game change so much come f2p that I don't even recognize it. I want this game to still feel free and open and lighthearted as it always did. I recognize the need for dilithium to attract f2p customers to put some money into the game, and I can respect that. I just don't want to see the fundamentals of the game getting squashed either. I'm not all doom and gloom, just throwing my two cents in here, on a few issues that ... now that I find myself posting on them I'll create their own forums on. Sorry for all the rambling. I'll stop now.
The other thing that makes this a non-issue is that you only have limited exchange slots. If you want to actually sell stuff, well.. can't use it all as storage.
It really isn't hurting things at all.
I have not figured that out yet. How do you go about doing that?
I noticed the other day that I had over Thirty items listed.
(I usually just keep adding stuff without counting, knowing it will tell me when I have hit my limit.)