test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

DOff Exchange Stacking...

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
It seems that folks are using the Exchange to stack up their extra DOffs over 100... (an Exploit in my book)

In the last day or so the number of DOffs that are listed at the max-price (999,999,999) on the exchange has quadrupled (a guesstimate).

Could we PLEASE get either...

A 24 to 48 hour limit on how long DOffs can be held on the exchange.

or

A Reasonable limit on just how high DOffs can be sold for.
(I use the term reasonable even knowing that lately, it isn't one of Your more apparent goals toward this game.)

Yer limiting everything else in the game, Ya might just as well put the ka-bosh on this particular practice too.
Post edited by Unknown User on
«1

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    It seems that folks are using the Exchange to stack up their extra DOffs over 100... (an Exploit in my book)

    In the last day or so the number of DOffs that are listed at the max-price (999,999,999) on the exchange has quadrupled (a guesstimate).

    Could we PLEASE get either...

    A 24 to 48 hour limit on how long DOffs can be held on the exchange.

    or

    A Reasonable limit on just how high DOffs can be sold for.
    (I use the term reasonable even knowing that latel,y it isn't one of Your more apparent goals toward this game.)

    Yer limiting everything else in the game, Ya might just as well put the ka-bosh on this particular practice too.

    What they need to do is probably put a time limit like you said on it. This will be easier enforced if they simply just make a DOFF exchange. Have it's own terminal and area on STARFLEET ACADEMY not the ESD lol.

    Though when time expires, and there is no room in your inventory where would they go? Would they go to your mailbox like items in Wow? Even then, people would exploit that and just let them build up in Mailbox. What they could do is limit to how many Doffs you can have on the exchange at one time. That might work. That way people can't exploit that much. If the limit were say 10-20 who knows.. Maybe that will be make people think.. "nah, its not worth it"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    This is a definite issue. We're looking into possible ways to address the situation.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Best way to address the issue, put in the doff overflow bag like you said there would be. Voila, no need for cluttering the exchange.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    That's just a bandaid on the ravine.

    People are dumping doffs on the exchange to bypass the maximum 100, overflow or not, in order to have potentially infinite doffs. Essentially, a doff bank with as many slots as you can add.

    Personally, I feel that a doff should -always- count towards the roster, regardless of his/her position in your 'inventory'.

    Ship/away team duty? exchange? they should all count to the cap.
    Only when a doff is actually deleted/dead/sold should they be deducted from the player's count.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    -Jes- wrote:
    Personally, I feel that a doff should -always- count towards the roster, regardless of his/her position in your 'inventory'.

    Ship/away team duty? exchange? they should all count to the cap.
    Only when a doff is actually deleted/dead/sold should they be deducted from the player's count.

    I totally agree. It would completly solve the problem!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    They are only using the exchange because mailing them doesn't work right now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I'm confused how this is a problem since there is a sort by price option and no way to sort doffs other then by name. We're only going to be able to see the 400 cheapest doffs and once more people are using the exchange to trade them we won't ever see the 90 million EC doffs anymore.

    The only upside to making doffs on the exchange count toward the limit is that it will force more doff for doff trading between players but that will also bring more spam in zone chat.

    Edit: I forgot you can sort by rarity. I still see this as a non issue and being the same as everything else over priced on the exchange.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Latinumbar wrote:
    They are only using the exchange because mailing them doesn't work right now.

    I have this picture of folding someone up into a box and mailing them to russia...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Heretic wrote:
    This is a definite issue. We're looking into possible ways to address the situation.

    Tax, easy as that...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Heretic wrote:
    This is a definite issue. We're looking into possible ways to address the situation.

    Good to hear.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Heretic wrote:
    This is a definite issue. We're looking into possible ways to address the situation.

    Whilst you are doing that, can you also look into improving the exchange so that people who deliberate post 1 data sample at a time don't crowd the search results with the 400 samples that they posted. We can't find any stacks that are posted because they've been pushed out of the search by people posting lots and lots of single items at inflated prices.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Specineff wrote:
    What they need to do is probably put a time limit like you said on it. This will be easier enforced if they simply just make a DOFF exchange. Have it's own terminal and area on STARFLEET ACADEMY not the ESD lol.

    Though when time expires, and there is no room in your inventory where would they go? Would they go to your mailbox like items in Wow? Even then, people would exploit that and just let them build up in Mailbox. What they could do is limit to how many Doffs you can have on the exchange at one time. That might work. That way people can't exploit that much. If the limit were say 10-20 who knows.. Maybe that will be make people think.. "nah, its not worth it"

    There are a number of ways that something could be implemented and some could be used in conjunction with each other.

    First limit Doffs on the exchange to the limit given by a C-Store purchase.
    Second they could use a post tax system on an independent exchange for Doffs only and it could be a really extreme high amount based off of rarity, such as 98%. Call it a Capital Gains tax....:p...
    Third limit the rarity of Doffs that can be posted.

    You could also use just force players to use a "vendor" price, where the only way that a player can sell is if they post at a predetermined price set by Cryptic, based on rarity. So a non rare would only be say 250 EC (as an example). This is the preferable system to me, as it prevents any exploits of the system for "storage" purposes. Because at that price, anyone can come along and purchase the Doff.

    But this issue isn't limited to the Doffs. This is an issue with almost everything in the game that can be sold. People using the exchange as a bank and in general, it needs to be fixed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Heretic wrote:
    This is a definite issue. We're looking into possible ways to address the situation.

    Yer response is deeply appreciated good Sir...

    Just one other question at this point...

    Does that mean Before F2P or After...?... :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    have an easier solution... And one that should appeal to the STO players. that are actually Trek fans

    DOFF's cannot be sold. Thay CAN be gifted, swapped, traded, exchanged. But they cannot be sold... at least not directly. Instead of a Exchange entry for duty officers...

    Take a console down at the Academy and have it display a "Availible for Posting and Assignments."

    If you have more doffs then you can use, trade them or reassign them. The availble board at the academy would be stocked by DOFF's recieved from the "reassignmentt mission" which should always be availible That way players recieve something for giving DOFF's up.. Players that are haveing issues with getting DOFF's can always check to see whats availible. Yes some player will attampt to use and abuse this just to do it The law of diminishing returns kicks it. Let them. The actions of players can be monitored by a relitivly small tidy application that simply tracks what thier doing. Detecting players abusing the system should be relivly simple. Players doing so recieve an in game communication from " Admiral L'Khee Commander: Star Fleet Personall, or Commander Tolek Klingon Defence Force Office of Assignment suspending thier Duty officer exchange abilities for one week with a polite note "Your crew is a resourse, not a commodity"

    Part of putting Trek into this game is keeping 20th century flesh peddling out of it.

    I personally very much OBJECT to Bridge officer and Duty officers being sold.. Cryptic has allowed a game of a made out of trafficing in sentients.. Something that is quite illegal in the real world.

    I am surprised no one has brought THAT particular point up.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    have an easier solution... And one that should appeal to the STO players. that are actually Trek fans

    DOFF's cannot be sold. Thay CAN be gifted, swapped, traded, exchanged. But they cannot be sold... at least not directly. Instead of a Exchange entry for duty officers...

    Take a console down at the Academy and have it display a "Availible for Posting and Assignments."

    If you have more doffs then you can use, trade them or reassign them. The availble board at the academy would be stocked by DOFF's recieved from the "reassignmentt mission" which should always be availible That way players recieve something for giving DOFF's up.. Players that are haveing issues with getting DOFF's can always check to see whats availible. Yes some player will attampt to use and abuse this just to do it The law of diminishing returns kicks it. Let them. The actions of players can be monitored by a relitivly small tidy application that simply tracks what thier doing. Detecting players abusing the system should be relivly simple. Players doing so recieve an in game communication from " Admiral L'Khee Commander: Star Fleet Personall, or Commander Tolek Klingon Defence Force Office of Assignment suspending thier Duty officer exchange abilities for one week with a polite note "Your crew is a resourse, not a commodity"

    Part of putting Trek into this game is keeping 20th century flesh peddling out of it.

    I personally very much OBJECT to Bridge officer and Duty officers being sold.. Cryptic has allowed a game of a made out of trafficing in sentients.. Something that is quite illegal in the real world.

    I am surprised no one has brought THAT particular point up.

    Excellent idea. I would simply limit the number of Doffs you can receive and give back each day in this manner. That may be a bit easier than creating another application to monitor activity.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    have an easier solution... And one that should appeal to the STO players. that are actually Trek fans

    DOFF's cannot be sold. Thay CAN be gifted, swapped, traded, exchanged. But they cannot be sold... at least not directly. Instead of a Exchange entry for duty officers...

    Take a console down at the Academy and have it display a "Availible for Posting and Assignments."

    If you have more doffs then you can use, trade them or reassign them. The availble board at the academy would be stocked by DOFF's recieved from the "reassignmentt mission" which should always be availible That way players recieve something for giving DOFF's up.. Players that are haveing issues with getting DOFF's can always check to see whats availible. Yes some player will attampt to use and abuse this just to do it The law of diminishing returns kicks it. Let them. The actions of players can be monitored by a relitivly small tidy application that simply tracks what thier doing. Detecting players abusing the system should be relivly simple. Players doing so recieve an in game communication from " Admiral L'Khee Commander: Star Fleet Personall, or Commander Tolek Klingon Defence Force Office of Assignment suspending thier Duty officer exchange abilities for one week with a polite note "Your crew is a resourse, not a commodity"

    Part of putting Trek into this game is keeping 20th century flesh peddling out of it.

    I personally very much OBJECT to Bridge officer and Duty officers being sold.. Cryptic has allowed a game of a made out of trafficing in sentients.. Something that is quite illegal in the real world.

    I am surprised no one has brought THAT particular point up.

    +2... works for me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    VVargazm wrote:
    I'm confused how this is a problem since there is a sort by price option and no way to sort doffs other then by name. We're only going to be able to see the 400 cheapest doffs and once more people are using the exchange to trade them we won't ever see the 90 million EC doffs anymore.

    The only upside to making doffs on the exchange count toward the limit is that it will force more doff for doff trading between players but that will also bring more spam in zone chat.

    Edit: I forgot you can sort by rarity. I still see this as a non issue and being the same as everything else over priced on the exchange.

    The issue isn't that you can see them, it's that the exchnage wasn't intended and is not intended to be a storage unit.

    It's basically an exploit of the system.

    Sure, there are other things that I think should take priority, but this is plain and simple an exploit of the system.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    While that idea sounds nice it ignores the whole reason exchanges exist in MMOs. The exchange is not there so you can get an item at a fair price. The exchange is there so people can set a price on an item they want to sell without bothering anyone who isn't interested. Once you take away the ability for a person to put something on the exchange with no hassle at what ever price they want the result is people spamming prices of their TRIBBLE in common chat areas. As many of us saw people doing before the doff tab was added to the exchange.

    The exchange is a spam filter and that is it's only reason for being. With that in mind I think I have a solution even though I don't really see this as a problem. Add a price filter button and a double filter to the exchange. Crypic probably has a better idea then I do of what price to start blocking items from view. Maybe one million EC, or maybe give users a few choices. Then also add the option to only show the oldest listing of items that are posted for the same price. So then you don't see 400 of the same data sample listed for the same price. And you also don't see Common traders listed for 100 million.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    the only thing you need to do is make it where we can put them in the bank or fleet bank i put all my extra one on exchange for max price so they will go to my mail it the only way to have a place to hold them so i can get more
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    staalker wrote: »
    The issue isn't that you can see them, it's that the exchnage wasn't intended and is not intended to be a storage unit.

    It's basically an exploit of the system.

    Oh ok, I see where you are coming from. I'm not sure it's accurate though. If this is an exploit it is an exploit that has been going since launch. If your bank is full you can store any item you want on the exchange the same way and some people do. Considering they've run the exchange this way for as long as they have I'm guessing it is something intentional to leave it alone.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    BlindPilot wrote:
    the only thing you need to do is make it where we can put them in the bank or fleet bank i put all my extra one on exchange for max price so they will go to my mail it the only way to have a place to hold them so i can get more
    VVargazm wrote:
    Oh ok, I see where you are coming from. I'm not sure it's accurate though. If this is an exploit it is an exploit that has been going since launch. If your bank is full you can store any item you want on the exchange the same way and some people do. Considering they've run the exchange this way for as long as they have I'm guessing it is something intentional to leave it alone.

    You are only supposed to have 100 DOffs per Character to work with, according to Heretic.

    Putting DOffs on the Exchange at max-price is an Exploit of the System.

    It allows folks to STACK DOffs beyond the 100 Per Character Limit, to be used at their convince when ever they like.

    That was my point at the outset of this Thread.

    Heretic has already stated (post #3 herein) that They are aware of this Exploit and are conferring to do something about it.

    DOffs Can't Be Mailed, so putting them on the Exchange for that reason, will not work.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    You are only supposed to have 100 DOffs per Character to work with, according to Heretic.

    Putting DOffs on the Exchange at max-price is an Exploit of the System.

    It allows folks to STACK DOffs beyond the 100 Per Character Limit, to be used at their convince when ever they like.

    That was my point at the outset of this Thread.

    Heretic has already stated (post #3 herein) that They are aware of this Exploit and are conferring to do something about it.

    DOffs Can't Be Mailed, so putting them on the Exchange for that reason, will not work.

    I just don't see the big deal. As far as exploits go this is pretty lame. The replicator thing, now that was an exploit. And guess what, they moved on it quickly. Here they say oh well we're talking about it n stuff. So I don't think it's ranking to high internally either.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I personally very much OBJECT to Bridge officer and Duty officers being sold.. Cryptic has allowed a game of a made out of trafficing in sentients.. Something that is quite illegal in the real world.

    I am surprised no one has brought THAT particular point up.

    This is exactly what happens with pro sports athletes, so you are just wrong to say its illegal.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    VVargazm wrote:
    I just don't see the big deal. As far as exploits go this is pretty lame. The replicator thing, now that was an exploit. And guess what, they moved on it quickly. Here they say oh well we're talking about it n stuff. So I don't think it's ranking to high internally either.
    Actually, what Heretic said was...

    "This is a definite issue. We're looking into possible ways to address the situation."

    Tha's a bit more clear-cut than... " ...oh well we're talking about it n stuff...".

    This is Heretics' Baby, it seems from his heavy involvement and interaction with us on the forums, that he cares very much about how this goes.

    Letting such a glaring Exploit stay in the system for very long, seems counterintuitive to how much time and effort He as already put in to make it work properly.

    I'd be quite surprised if something isn't done about it within a week or two.

    Also, this may seem like a minor thing to you, but in reality, it probably is a Big Deal to the Guy that created this game mechnic and He most likely doesn't want folks skirtting-the-system.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Why do people make such compicated suggetions.. they most easies solution is a deposit.

    10-15% of the suggested sales price starting for items that are more then 1 million EC and is reffunded when they item is sold or the auction expires.

    You don't hamper the commodity market (since pretty much all of this items are sub 1 milltion EC) and when you have high priced items in the 20-50 million range I am sure most of this people have alreay several millions extra.

    With this you wont see all thos 99 million or 999million prices for worthless trash or parking of items. Cause parking an item for 99million fee is quite hefty. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    Actually, what Heretic said was...

    "This is a definite issue. We're looking into possible ways to address the situation."

    Tha's a bit more clear-cut than... " ...oh well we're talking about it n stuff...".

    This is Heretics' Baby, it seems from his heavy involvement and interaction with us on the forums, that he cares very much about how this goes.

    Letting such a glaring Exploit stay in the system for very long, seems counterintuitive to how much time and effort He as already put in to make it work properly.

    I'd be quite surprised if something isn't done about it within a week or two.

    Also, this may seem like a minor thing to you, but in reality, it probably is a Big Deal to the Guy that created this game mechnic and He most likely doesn't want folks skirtting-the-system.

    The guys gonna do what ever he wants. If he thinks it's a big deal, so be it. If there is anything I don't love about the doff system as it is, I still love the intent and I know the man cares. If he thinks the exchange thing is an exploit fine. If he wants to do something about it I will in no way complain. I really don't care either way. Or at least I didn't when this subject was first brought up.

    Now I'm starting to get a lot of doubles I've got 5 or 6 up on the exchange now. I'm close to 90 doffs and another cadre will put me over 100. Now if that cap is made to be more firm and I can't open my next cadre I'm going to dismiss doffs rather leave them on the exchange. Again I don't see this as a big deal but I do think it goes against the free trade of doffs mindset. I will trust Heretic's judgment on if it is more important to have that cap or more important that people use the exchange for doffs they don't need.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I agree with the suggestion that any DOFFs in the exchange count toward your limit. It is the easiest and simplest way to solve the problem, and it makes the most sense.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    The current plan has been to allow players to purchase additional reserve roster space from the C-Store in the same way that you can currently buy more regular inventory space from the C-Store.

    It's not a huge issue for Tribble, but by the time we go to F2P, something will be done to impede the use of Exchange banking for duty officers, if only for the obvious business ramifications.

    The exact solution is TBD, since there are a lot of technical issues with some of the ideas that have been put forth, both internally and by the playerbase.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Heretic wrote:
    The current plan has been to allow players to purchase additional reserve roster space from the C-Store in the same way that you can currently buy more regular inventory space from the C-Store.

    It's not a huge issue for Tribble, but by the time we go to F2P, something will be done to impede the use of Exchange banking for duty officers, if only for the obvious business consideration.

    The exact solution is TBD, since there are a lot of technical issues with some of the ideas that have been put forth, both internally and by the playerbase.

    Thanks Heretic, I have a question in reference to your first paragraph. Will this C-Store expansion option be available by the time F2P launches? I won't ask for any other details about it at this time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Thanks Heretic, I have a question in reference to your first paragraph. Will this C-Store expansion option be available by the time F2P launches? I won't ask for any other details about it at this time.

    That's the plan, yes.
Sign In or Register to comment.