meh to each his own. Eitherway I would love an option to buy slots in the c-store akin to 50c-p for 1 slot.
For some reason I think you think I think c-store should be the only way. i think.
Eitherway imo (who elses right?) I love giving money to cryptic. maybe some guys on the team may get a raise. yea might go to the suits but meh. I plan on being a *suit* in a way.
Not to belittle anyone or any particular post, but I'm pretty sure the dev team has a drinking game where whenever someone says "slap in the face" they have to take a drink. We don't want the dev team passed out drunk .
I maintain that charging creative people (and lets face it, few people would have the energy, time, or inclination to create more than a few missions) to add more content to your game that may very well be keeping people subbed is, to use a different analogy, cutting your nose off to spite your face.
You're making quite a few assumptions ... such as;
that there will be no method whatsoever to earn additional free story slots
few people will actually use the foundry to create their own stories
Cryptic doesn't recognize or care about the value well written, well reviewed story arcs in the UGC add to STO
I'd be willing to bet they will have a similar system as does the Mission Architect in CoH where the Cryptic Devs will pick their "favorites" and those authors will get additional, free story slots for the Foundry.
Not to belittle anyone or any particular post, but I'm pretty sure the dev team has a drinking game where whenever someone says "slap in the face" they have to take a drink. We don't want the dev team passed out drunk .
So Last April Paul Immediately Noted That He Eerily Focused All Care Externally
You're making quite a few assumptions ... such as;
that there will be no method whatsoever to earn additional free story slots
few people will actually use the foundry to create their own stories
Cryptic doesn't recognize or care about the value well written, well reviewed story arcs in the UGC add to STO
I'd be willing to bet they will have a similar system as does the Mission Architect in CoH where the Cryptic Devs will pick their "favorites" and those authors will get additional, free story slots for the Foundry.
Which would be fine. That statement was based on the assumption, as you pointed out, that the only way to get additional slots would be through micropayments to the C-Store. However, if you note in one of my earlier posts I did point out that I would hope other methods would be available.
What I was trying to get across is that, as a Creator, I would consider having extra slots only available to the C-Store to be a Bad Idea, and would therefore not bother to create content for Cryptic's game.
Which would be fine. That statement was based on the assumption, as you pointed out, that the only way to get additional slots would be through micropayments to the C-Store. However, if you note in one of my earlier posts I did point out that I would hope other methods would be available.
What I was trying to get across is that, as a Creator, I would consider having extra slots only available to the C-Store to be a Bad Idea.
Hopefully this is feedback to the dev team so they implement one or more of the good ideas here so that the really good mission makers can make as many great missions as they want and the community wants. I'm not in panic mode by any means, but we do want them to take this problem into account.
Hopefully this is feedback to the dev team so they implement one or more of the good ideas here so that the really good mission makers can make as many great missions as they want and the community wants. I'm not in panic mode by any means, but we do want them to take this problem into account.
Agreed this is good feedback for them, yet I'm curious what the "problem" you mention is?
Most likely, all of this is already decided, and Atari and marketing are involved. We'll see additional slots show up in the c-store for unreasonable prices, and it will take a community outrage, endless threads about "Foundry-gate" and maybe an episode of Stoked before the devs back track and say: "We promise additional ways to get mission slots in the future." Five months later, after marketing and Atari have re-evaluated the worth of mission slots in the c-store, maybe the cap will be raised by a few slots for everyone. Or, just maybe, they'll reduce the price of the slots "in response to valued community-feedback."
As far as an actual mechanic involved, such as letting people donate slots or rewarding good authors with slots... well that is actual work, and it's probably not even on the priority list right now.
Agreed this is good feedback for them, yet I'm curious what the "problem" you mention is?
Potentially the best authors will not be able to continue to make missions because of the limit while bad authors continue to make more bad missions, lowering the overall quality of the Foundry missions. I want the best authors to make as many missions as they want or need to finish long campaigns.
Potentially the best authors will not be able to continue to make missions because of the limit while bad authors continue to make more bad missions, lowering the overall quality of the Foundry missions. I want the best authors to make as many missions as they want or need to finish long campaigns.
I guess I'm not understanding how would "good" authors would be restricted in any way and "bad" authors wouldn't be? Even if by some remote chance the only way to get additional story slots was the C-Store, you're still not limiting people by any stretch.
Anyway, its best to let the Devs know how we feel before this decision is made rather than after. Its always harder to get things changed after they come out than before.
qft
Admittedly, I have no problem paying C-Store for things, I'm a model consumer. However, we would not be buying a costume, or a ship or a tribble. We would be buying "space" to create content for ourselves AND the entire community (IF the main option will be through C-Store). That would extremely deface the clean cut image that the Foundry has been generating these past few months about being the saviour and the next step and the true game etc. (Just some of the remarks being made by some enthusiastic people).
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
Here are some suggested methods of unlocking more mission slots in the Foundry:
Merit-based: if you have a mission with X many reviews and an average at or over 4 stars, you get a slot per qualifying mission. This has the biggest potential for abuse: some players might unjustly rate a mission higher to help people unlock.
Time-based: the longer you've played Foundry missions as a reviewer (excluding your own), the more mission unlocks you get.
Veteran-based: the longer you've been a subscriber, the more mission slots you get. Think of it as an additional veteran reward.
Endgame-based: reviewing missions at endgame means unlocking more slots. To prevent abuse via speedrunning missions, let players take this unlock as a daily or weekly.
Accolade-based: trade accolade points for more slots! (i.e. allocate 1200/1620 points toward mission slots)
As a last resort, for people that reach the new caps created by the above in-game methods, add a C-store alternative (but only available if you hit your cap).
I believe the following methods (in combination) would benefit the game in the following way:
More mission would be reviewed, leading toward a more active user-base of fellow authors helping guide new users in making missions better.
I know the last one isn't popular but adding any of the previous in-game/free methods would mean that it would be more palatable.
This is a more appealing flow of options should the cap be set around 8 missions.
... Would it be too ... outlandish to consider one more addition to that specific list?
- Lifetime Subscribers have unlimited or a monthly cap of possible missions (say 20) which they can create. We have paid our fee up front for the life time of STO. If it ever went to F2P (don't wish to derail discussion) it is the Lifetime Subscribers who would surely have access to all features and thus would not be asked to use the C-Store for anything...
OFC, I am being quite biased here since I am a Lifetime Subscriber. But, sometimes you got to think about your own situation, and after paying a couple of hundred Euros on this game already, if I am presented with the C-Store as my only avenue to further my options on Foundry missions, it will be a severe dissapointment indeed.
Perhaps by discussing this topic now, we can preempt the marketing team from digging in their heels on the idea being the -sole- route to go.
As the Nagus said, it is easier to change things before the fact.
I guess I'm not understanding how would "good" authors would be restricted in any way and "bad" authors wouldn't be? Even if by some remote chance the only way to get additional story slots was the C-Store, you're still not limiting people by any stretch.
Maybe "good" and "bad" are too subjective of terms. Let's use "well-intioned UGC creator" vs. "malcontent UGC spammer." If someone spends days or weeks perfecting a mission, then it shouldn't matter whether it's good or bad. They are adding content to the game. Cryptic is profiting off of their labor. They deserve to be rewarded, not restricted. And, they certainly don't deserve to have Cryptic demand more money from them to add content to their game.
But, a malcontent spammer would be limited to a certain number of slots, not allowed to continue clogging up the system with trash. I doubt he/she would go through the hoops to get more mission slots if he/she was doing labors of love.
I guess I'm not understanding how would "good" authors would be restricted in any way and "bad" authors wouldn't be? Even if by some remote chance the only way to get additional story slots was the C-Store, you're still not limiting people by any stretch.
Also, if a "good" author creates 8 extremely popular missions, the only way they can create more would be to delete one, much to the chagrin of the people who enjoyed playing the mission and to the detriment of future players who would not be able to experience it.
Conversely, a "bad" author can fill up their slots with dross, then delete one whenever they feel like and make another one. There's bound to be some form of "Newly Added" listing, and they'll always end up on it. While that may not be a problem for people familiar with how the system works, it could end up being confusing for new people and if they experience a couple of rubbish missions they may give player-created content a wide berth in the future.
The saddest part about all of this is how so many people decided NOT to get on Tribble and test the Foundry, and waited until the last minute before it goes live to realize these kinds of things.
The saddest part about all of this is how so many people decided NOT to get on Tribble and test the Foundry, and waited until the last minute before it goes live to realize these kinds of things.
I stayed off it because I knew (or falsely assumed?) plenty of people were testing and after many years I've found my enjoyment of a thing is lessened if I help beta-test it, because by the time it's ready for release I've already got bored of it and frustrated with bugs that don't get fixed.
I didn't want this to happen with the Foundry. This is why I've planned things out in advance (although no doubt I'll have to rework some of it to fit in with the restrictions in place) with a view to hitting it with a fresh perspective when it goes live on Holodeck.
To be perfectly honest, the fact that there would be limited mission slots and they might charge CP for more never even occured to me. I guess I haven't been as burned as other members of this community...
The saddest part about all of this is how so many people decided NOT to get on Tribble and test the Foundry, and waited until the last minute before it goes live to realize these kinds of things.
For me, the saddest part is seeing posts from people who are simply dismissing ugc, stating that they prefer to play "quality" Cryptic content, when some of the ugc missions are far better than most of Cryptic's "quality" content.
For me, the saddest part is seeing posts from people who are simply dismissing ugc, stating that they prefer to play "quality" Cryptic content, when some of the ugc missions are far better than most of Cryptic's "quality" content.
Your right; that is. But I have a feeling once most of those people break down and try it(either out of simple curiousity or a fleet mate asking them to rate their mission) they will be singing a different tune.
Also, if a "good" author creates 8 extremely popular missions, the only way they can create more would be to delete one...
Really? How do you know that? Are the methods for obtaining additional slots set in stone?
Even if by some remote chance the ONLY possible method of ever obtaining new story slots is the C-Store, a "good" author can continue to write as many arcs as they like. They aren't limited to 8.
Really? How do you know that? Are the methods for obtaining additional slots set in stone?
Even if by some remote chance the ONLY possible method of ever obtaining new story slots is the C-Store, a "good" author can continue to write as many arcs as they like. They aren't limited to 8.
The post you quoted is talking about the current mechanics as they exist on Tribble. Until an official announcement is made or those mechanics are changed, then the current mechanics are all we have to discuss. And the current mechanics certainly bear more weight in a discussion than hypotheticals.
The post you quoted is talking about the current mechanics as they exist on Tribble. Until an official announcement is made or those mechanics are changed, then the current mechanics are all we have to discuss. And the current mechanics certainly bear more weight in a discussion than hypotheticals.
It's all hypothetical until it's live Wait until it's live to complain about what it can/can not do.
It's all hypothetical until it's live Wait until it's live to complain about what it can/can not do.
The mechanics on Tribble arent hypothetical, and thats what we're discussing. Also, as I said earlier in this thread, its much easier to change something BEFORE it goes live than after. That being the case, its better to let the Devs know how we feel and what we want now. But if you dont want to have a discussion about the Foundry until it goes live, then feel free to refrain.
Akin to the BO video thingy where i can watch your video and save it and share it via my slots something like that can be done.
I like your mission. I save it to my slots * thus i can play or share with others at will via grouping* and they can do the same. That way these SUPER DUPER PERFECT I AM GOD authors can delete their missions. Perhaps add a note say this mission is will be up for 1 month If you really like it save it.
Or perhaps they add a community best where monthly cryptic will save a few missions that were rated the best for that month(exploitable) perhaps rated in more than one way. that way the above mentioned Gods can delete and free up a slot.
making more slots available isnt the only way to solve this problem.
A save mission function perhaps?
In all honesty I envision where each author would make a thread somewhere listing his mission where people would provide feedback and i dont know wild visions !
If youve played bo pc you know what im talking about. That way an authors mission lives on forever. ofcourse this in conjunction with being able to acquire more slots is ideal.
perhaps they should nix the newly added thingy. Just put by author and ratings next to the missions made, maybe a date next to them too
Akin to the BO video thingy where i can watch your video and save it and share it via my slots something like that can be done.
I like your mission. I save it to my slots * thus i can play or share with others at will via grouping* and they can do the same. That way these SUPER DUPER PERFECT I AM GOD authors can delete their missions. Perhaps add a note say this mission is will be up for 1 month If you really like it save it.
Or perhaps they add a community best where monthly cryptic will save a few missions that were rated the best for that month(exploitable) perhaps rated in more than one way. that way the above mentioned Gods can delete and free up a slot.
making more slots available isnt the only way to solve this problem.
A save mission function perhaps?
In all honesty I envision where each author would make a thread somewhere listing his mission where people would provide feedback and i dont know wild visions !
If youve played bo pc you know what im talking about. That way an authors mission lives on forever. ofcourse this in conjunction with being able to acquire more slots is ideal.
perhaps they should nix the newly added thingy. Just put by author and ratings next to the missions made, maybe a date next to them too
You seem to be confused. The whole reason there are a limited amount of slots is because of data storage space and cost. Suggesting another way to save missions doesnt address that issue.
You honestly don't believe the Devs have already had any discussions on how many story slots they should allow for?
Of course they have, just like they had discussions about the "advisory council" before they told us about it. But because of the reaction before it actually "went live", they changed their minds.
Of course they have, just like they had discussions about the "advisory council" before they told us about it. But because of the reaction before it actually "went live", they changed their minds.
Not quite the same, but whatever....
Those out there hoping to get 5,00 or more free story arc slots so they are able to rewrite the entire STO game lore from level 1 to 51 are likely to be gravely disappointed. I'm also willing to bet there will be several ways to obtain new, free story slots beyond the obvious C-Store ones.
You seem to be confused. The whole reason there are a limited amount of slots is because of data storage space and cost. Suggesting another way to save missions doesnt address that issue.
no people would be saving them using their own slots.
Those out there hoping to get 5,00 or more free story arc slots so they are able to rewrite the entire STO game lore from level 1 to 51 are likely to be gravely disappointed.
I agree; unrealistic expectations usually always result in disappointment.
Comments
For some reason I think you think I think c-store should be the only way. i think.
Eitherway imo (who elses right?) I love giving money to cryptic. maybe some guys on the team may get a raise. yea might go to the suits but meh. I plan on being a *suit* in a way.
You're making quite a few assumptions ... such as;
I'd be willing to bet they will have a similar system as does the Mission Architect in CoH where the Cryptic Devs will pick their "favorites" and those authors will get additional, free story slots for the Foundry.
So Last April Paul Immediately Noted That He Eerily Focused All Care Externally
enjoy the debate to see if that counts !!
Which would be fine. That statement was based on the assumption, as you pointed out, that the only way to get additional slots would be through micropayments to the C-Store. However, if you note in one of my earlier posts I did point out that I would hope other methods would be available.
What I was trying to get across is that, as a Creator, I would consider having extra slots only available to the C-Store to be a Bad Idea, and would therefore not bother to create content for Cryptic's game.
Hopefully this is feedback to the dev team so they implement one or more of the good ideas here so that the really good mission makers can make as many great missions as they want and the community wants. I'm not in panic mode by any means, but we do want them to take this problem into account.
Agreed this is good feedback for them, yet I'm curious what the "problem" you mention is?
As far as an actual mechanic involved, such as letting people donate slots or rewarding good authors with slots... well that is actual work, and it's probably not even on the priority list right now.
Potentially the best authors will not be able to continue to make missions because of the limit while bad authors continue to make more bad missions, lowering the overall quality of the Foundry missions. I want the best authors to make as many missions as they want or need to finish long campaigns.
I guess I'm not understanding how would "good" authors would be restricted in any way and "bad" authors wouldn't be? Even if by some remote chance the only way to get additional story slots was the C-Store, you're still not limiting people by any stretch.
qft
Admittedly, I have no problem paying C-Store for things, I'm a model consumer. However, we would not be buying a costume, or a ship or a tribble. We would be buying "space" to create content for ourselves AND the entire community (IF the main option will be through C-Store). That would extremely deface the clean cut image that the Foundry has been generating these past few months about being the saviour and the next step and the true game etc. (Just some of the remarks being made by some enthusiastic people).
This is a more appealing flow of options should the cap be set around 8 missions.
... Would it be too ... outlandish to consider one more addition to that specific list?
- Lifetime Subscribers have unlimited or a monthly cap of possible missions (say 20) which they can create. We have paid our fee up front for the life time of STO. If it ever went to F2P (don't wish to derail discussion) it is the Lifetime Subscribers who would surely have access to all features and thus would not be asked to use the C-Store for anything...
OFC, I am being quite biased here since I am a Lifetime Subscriber. But, sometimes you got to think about your own situation, and after paying a couple of hundred Euros on this game already, if I am presented with the C-Store as my only avenue to further my options on Foundry missions, it will be a severe dissapointment indeed.
Perhaps by discussing this topic now, we can preempt the marketing team from digging in their heels on the idea being the -sole- route to go.
As the Nagus said, it is easier to change things before the fact.
Maybe "good" and "bad" are too subjective of terms. Let's use "well-intioned UGC creator" vs. "malcontent UGC spammer." If someone spends days or weeks perfecting a mission, then it shouldn't matter whether it's good or bad. They are adding content to the game. Cryptic is profiting off of their labor. They deserve to be rewarded, not restricted. And, they certainly don't deserve to have Cryptic demand more money from them to add content to their game.
But, a malcontent spammer would be limited to a certain number of slots, not allowed to continue clogging up the system with trash. I doubt he/she would go through the hoops to get more mission slots if he/she was doing labors of love.
Also, if a "good" author creates 8 extremely popular missions, the only way they can create more would be to delete one, much to the chagrin of the people who enjoyed playing the mission and to the detriment of future players who would not be able to experience it.
Conversely, a "bad" author can fill up their slots with dross, then delete one whenever they feel like and make another one. There's bound to be some form of "Newly Added" listing, and they'll always end up on it. While that may not be a problem for people familiar with how the system works, it could end up being confusing for new people and if they experience a couple of rubbish missions they may give player-created content a wide berth in the future.
That's not good by anyones yardstick!
I stayed off it because I knew (or falsely assumed?) plenty of people were testing and after many years I've found my enjoyment of a thing is lessened if I help beta-test it, because by the time it's ready for release I've already got bored of it and frustrated with bugs that don't get fixed.
I didn't want this to happen with the Foundry. This is why I've planned things out in advance (although no doubt I'll have to rework some of it to fit in with the restrictions in place) with a view to hitting it with a fresh perspective when it goes live on Holodeck.
To be perfectly honest, the fact that there would be limited mission slots and they might charge CP for more never even occured to me. I guess I haven't been as burned as other members of this community...
For me, the saddest part is seeing posts from people who are simply dismissing ugc, stating that they prefer to play "quality" Cryptic content, when some of the ugc missions are far better than most of Cryptic's "quality" content.
Your right; that is. But I have a feeling once most of those people break down and try it(either out of simple curiousity or a fleet mate asking them to rate their mission) they will be singing a different tune.
Really? How do you know that? Are the methods for obtaining additional slots set in stone?
Even if by some remote chance the ONLY possible method of ever obtaining new story slots is the C-Store, a "good" author can continue to write as many arcs as they like. They aren't limited to 8.
The post you quoted is talking about the current mechanics as they exist on Tribble. Until an official announcement is made or those mechanics are changed, then the current mechanics are all we have to discuss. And the current mechanics certainly bear more weight in a discussion than hypotheticals.
It's all hypothetical until it's live
The mechanics on Tribble arent hypothetical, and thats what we're discussing. Also, as I said earlier in this thread, its much easier to change something BEFORE it goes live than after. That being the case, its better to let the Devs know how we feel and what we want now. But if you dont want to have a discussion about the Foundry until it goes live, then feel free to refrain.
Waiting until it's live is too late to get it changed. Feedback now is far more likely to change the outcome than complaining after the fact.
Not necessarily too late, but its definitely harder.
Akin to the BO video thingy where i can watch your video and save it and share it via my slots something like that can be done.
I like your mission. I save it to my slots * thus i can play or share with others at will via grouping* and they can do the same. That way these SUPER DUPER PERFECT I AM GOD authors can delete their missions. Perhaps add a note say this mission is will be up for 1 month If you really like it save it.
Or perhaps they add a community best where monthly cryptic will save a few missions that were rated the best for that month(exploitable) perhaps rated in more than one way. that way the above mentioned Gods can delete and free up a slot.
making more slots available isnt the only way to solve this problem.
A save mission function perhaps?
In all honesty I envision where each author would make a thread somewhere listing his mission where people would provide feedback and i dont know wild visions !
If youve played bo pc you know what im talking about. That way an authors mission lives on forever. ofcourse this in conjunction with being able to acquire more slots is ideal.
perhaps they should nix the newly added thingy. Just put by author and ratings next to the missions made, maybe a date next to them too
You honestly don't believe the Devs have already had any discussions on how many story slots they should allow for?
Also, just because something makes it to live doesn't mean it is set in stone either.
You seem to be confused. The whole reason there are a limited amount of slots is because of data storage space and cost. Suggesting another way to save missions doesnt address that issue.
Of course they have, just like they had discussions about the "advisory council" before they told us about it. But because of the reaction before it actually "went live", they changed their minds.
Not quite the same, but whatever....
Those out there hoping to get 5,00 or more free story arc slots so they are able to rewrite the entire STO game lore from level 1 to 51 are likely to be gravely disappointed. I'm also willing to bet there will be several ways to obtain new, free story slots beyond the obvious C-Store ones.
no people would be saving them using their own slots.
Examples usually arent exactly the same, but they do show a similarity.
I agree; unrealistic expectations usually always result in disappointment.
IDK about betting, but I certainly hope thats the case.