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Spelling, Grammar and You: Making It Work, So You Don't Have To

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Greetings fellow content authors!

After ten hours of UGC play and review, I have decided that I should probably post on the forums a simple to follow and easy to understand guide that will help make your authored content flow together much better, and will make the vast majority of your fellow STO players have a much better experience while playing content that you have created. I know that some of us can be real douchebags when it comes to this subject, so I will try to create this in the least derogatory way possible.

Please keep in mind that your created content should have correct grammar, spelling and syntax (the way your words combine to form sentences, phrases and paragraphs). I know that to some this may seem trivial, but I assure you that it is not. The reason is this: while your content may be some of the most wicked awesome content the game has ever seen, it doesn't mean anything if you can't spell correctly, if if the dialogue boxes we see are filled with broken sentences that don't make any sense.

Follow these simple steps, and your UGC will always be viewed as intelligent, creative, informative and well-constructed.

Step One: Spelling.
Honestly, there is nothing more important in the world than spelling. You can be the richest person in the world, but that doesn't mean anything if you can't spell the name of your bank, or your own name on the deposit slip. Two simple letters can be the difference between addressing your love sonnet to Mary, or to Larry. Other than these obvious examples, proper spelling makes you look intelligent. Let's face it, we all want to look smarter than we really are.

Step Two: Punctuation
Use it. If you dont use punctuation all your words in all your sentences and paragraphs will be combined in to one ridiculously unbroken sentence that is nearly impossible to follow because we will have no idea how to find the differences between subject predicate theme and every other part of a sentence even though it sounds right in your head when you put it to paper or in this case type and if there was any confusion about what Im talking about here its because this entire paragraph except for the first two words to make my point as clear as humanly possible so be sure to use your periods commas apostrophes parentheses brackets semicolons dashes slashes quotation marks ellipses exclamation marks and question marks but try to stay away from ampersands & asterisks * hashes # percent symbols % carets ^ angle brackets < and > and tildes ~ because all of these have little or no use in the written language aside from their mathematical or numerical values if by chance you have to use one it is always better just to spell out the word instead of use the symbol the reason for this is because youre communicating via written language and not a mathematical equation so you would want to type exactly as you would expect to hear it for example you would say shields down to twenty five percent instead of shields down to twenty five percent symbol now I know its a lot easier to just enter in the percent symbol but thats not how it is supposed to be done

Step Three: Grammar
Grammar, grammar grammar...you make the world turn. Grammar is a simple set of rules that govern how our languages is structured. Without it, nobody would understand what exactly it is you're trying to communicate. Everyone knows (or should know) the difference between noun, verb, adjective, et cetera, but there's more to grammar than just those definitions. Grammar, in it's most basic form, brings the parts of your sentence together to form an idea or phrase. Grammar can bring the words 'ball' 'bat' and 'boy' into a cohesive sentence: The boy bats the ball.

More importantly, grammar holds the key to unlocking the difference between the most commonly misused words. See below.
YOUR is possessive, as in you own something. "Those are your shoes, bro."
YOU'RE is a contraction of 'you' and 'are.' As in "You're kinda cute."
ITS is possessive, like 'your,' "The chameleon is known for its ability to change colors."
IT'S is a contraction of 'it' and 'is.' "It's kinda funny that I'm going through this whole list."
A LOT is two words. Get used to it.
TO denotes a destination or recipient. "Who are you going to give that to?"
TOO means the same as 'also.' "I'm going too."
TWO is a number.
THERE is a location. "I'm going over there."
THEY'RE is a contraction of 'they' and 'are.' "They're going too."
THEIR is possessive. "Those are their shoes, not ours."
THEN has to do with time. "I'm going to do this, then I am going to do that."
THAN is comparative. "You're way hotter than Sally is."
LOSE is a verb. "Did you lose your sock?"
LOOSE is an adjective, meaning not tight. "That knot up there is pretty loose."
FOR is possessive. "This is for Tom."
FOUR is a number.
OH is an expression of acceptance or understanding "Oh..."aa
ZERO is not an oh. It is a number.
WHO deals with the object of conversation "Who is playing that wicked guitar solo?"
WHOM deals with the subject of conversation. "Whom am I speaking with?"
WHOSE represents ownership. "Whose car is that?"
WHO'S is a contraction of 'who' and 'is.' "Who's that smoking hot blonde over there?"

Step Four: Syntax
Syntax is a property of grammar that governs how our words interact with one another. Without it, our sentences would resemble "Tom Hey will your car borrow?" Our syntax law creates the rules that bring our words together into an actual cohesive and complete sentence. If you break those rules, your sentences won't make sense to anybody. Be mindful of how your sentences are constructed! Poorly built sentences are hard to understand, and nobody will ever bother to read them.

Step Five: Nomenclature
Please, be creative when you make names for your creations (NPCs, planets, ships, et cetera) in public content. Not everyone has the same sense of humor your do, so when you name something that you think is funny someone is probably going to think it's stupid. It's also best to research the the common names of the race/culture you wish your object to be a part of. Creative names that are accurate for the species/culture you're trying to emulate mean better immersion and an overall better experience while playing your created content.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    :D I was working on a similar post on the starbaseugc blog. ...And worked on a few of these on the starbaseugc wiki.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Theres a very fine line between being helpful and being sanctimonious. While the advice is good, your delivery seems pretty "preachy".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I prefer to lead by example.

    If others are so poor at this content creation thing that they can't even be bothered to spell check, or look up where each word goes in a sentence, then that just means "my" missions are going to look that much better than Joe Blow's next to me. Thereby having five stars bestowed upon my missions as if by magical fairy. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Havraha wrote: »
    I prefer to lead by example.

    If others are so poor at this content creation thing that they can't even be bothered to spell check, or look up where each word goes in a sentence, then that just means "my" missions are going to look that much better than Joe Blow's next to me. Thereby having five stars bestowed upon my missions as if by magical fairy. :D

    Naturally. However, I'd rather not spend my days playing UGC content while trying to gouge out my eyes with a spoon having to read poorly spelled and constructed missions only to find the occasional gem.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Theres a very fine line between being helpful and being sanctimonious. While the advice is good, your delivery seems pretty "preachy".

    This could be. Although I tried to stay away from words such as 'thou,' 'thy,' and 'shalt.'

    If you'd like, I can forward you a copy of the NKJV of this post, however.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    The NKJV doesn't use 'thy' 'thou' 'shalt' etc...

    Other than that, it's a good post people should take notice of
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    The NKJV doesn't use 'thy' 'thou' 'shalt' etc...

    Other than that, it's a good post people should take notice of

    Apparently, I'm out-of-date when it comes to the structure of The Bible. Does the NKJV replace those with today's vernacular?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Glad the forum police started this thread. Can't wait till the German or even European versions of this guide comes out.

    Also please note using above guidelines poetry and "shaka when the walls fell down" adventures are not allowed. If you are a fan of James Joyce, your writing is now no good.


    My suggestion is to worry more about story structure and elements of writing a story than immediate spelling. Also, as it seems, I would suggest no play on words or intentionally misspelled words to convey hidden meanings. Your ratings may suffer.

    Can't wait for the "Would have given you 4 stars but Pheonix is not spelled Phoenix, regardless of what the Oxford dictionary tells you".

    "I" before "E" except after "C". Weird huh?
    Telaura wrote: »
    Apparently, I'm out-of-date when it comes to the structure of The Bible. Does the NKJV replace those with today's vernacular?

    You don't know? Why did you use it as a example? If you are going to ask for a set way of spelling and usage, maybe you should learn more.

    IDEA= A trek adventure all in textspeak. I don't see why not. There has been several uses of this in book form, by all accounts being published and making more money than the critics, (as well as having a fan base), makes it more legit than any one persons idea of how things should be written.

    Love language, even native speakers forget they don't have mastery of the current forms.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    maina wrote: »
    Glad the forum police started this thread. Can't wait till the German or even European versions of this guide comes out.

    Also please note using above guidelines poetry and "shaka when the walls fell down" adventures are not allowed. If you are a fan of James Joyce, your writing is now no good.
    You need to learn to walk before you can start running.

    As with all rules and guidelines, there are situations where you can break them for a positive effect. But if you break them because you don't know them, that's not likely to happen.

    Mustrum "Not a native speaker" Ridcully
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    maina wrote: »
    Glad the forum police started this thread. Can't wait till the German or even European versions of this guide comes out.

    Also please note using above guidelines poetry and "shaka when the walls fell down" adventures are not allowed. If you are a fan of James Joyce, your writing is now no good.


    My suggestion is to worry more about story structure and elements of writing a story than immediate spelling. Also, as it seems, I would suggest no play on words or intentionally misspelled words to convey hidden meanings. Your ratings may suffer.

    Can't wait for the "Would have given you 4 stars but Pheonix is not spelled Phoenix, regardless of what the Oxford dictionary tells you".

    "I" before "E" except after "C". Weird huh?

    Must be a UK thing cause I still live in Phoenix AZ, and when I did a search for Pheonix AZ Google corrected me back to Phoenix AZ.

    Then again there has only been 200 years for our languages to evolve, and modern technology slows that evolution further. Imagine the fit a Brit from 1000 CE would have if they heard a modern Brit or 'Murican speak? When you talk about your friend and they correct you to gada, and what would you say if that same person said their cruiser could oferb
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    You need to learn to walk before you can start running.

    As with all rules and guidelines, there are situations where you can break them for a positive effect. But if you break them because you don't know them, that's not likely to happen.

    Mustrum "Not a native speaker" Ridcully

    Who is teaching you to walk?

    Let me guess, you have no idea of how language has evolved or what prose means. You have a style guide in front of you right? Go buy another one, from another English speaking country, compare them. I'm saying the rules and guidelines are broken because they are not 100% correct, or at the least understood. You did see the example or two in the parts you didn't quote?

    I'm sorry. The Starfleet Style Manual has been written and we all must obey. If I cared about this, I would copy a few lines from a high school text and call it a guide to UGC writing also.

    Learning to walk means learning to run, it also means learning to fall, watch any child, they develop a style. Walking after you have "learned it" does not mean you are doing right compared to others watching.

    All this sarcasm comes from the fact that the best all of you can do is forum police using English (your form) grammar. I haven't seen the story structure or elements of character design posts that should be considered "good". Just more "my way" grammer. I don't disagree with most of the op's post, just it's presentation and it's assumption that it's the way it should be. We are not writing a business proposal or a tech paper, so I don't care what you think you have learned in a simple trade school.

    This is language and written communication for entertainment. I've brought this up before, learn to write for the medium or fail.

    Not to mention, have you looked at the OP? I see no format there that would pass for even a high school paper. Wall of text, with a line between each wall.

    A very simple post like the OP's won't stop any eye bleeds, the people that need it won't read it. The rest of us argue whether or not it's 100% correct.
    piwright42 wrote: »
    Must be a UK thing cause I still live in Phoenix AZ, and when I did a search for Pheonix AZ Google corrected me back to Phoenix AZ.

    Then again there has only been 200 years for our languages to evolve, and modern technology slows that evolution further. Imagine the fit a Brit from 1000 CE would have if they heard a modern Brit or 'Murican speak? When you talk about your friend and they correct you to gada, and what would you say if that same person said their cruiser could oferb
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Telaura wrote: »
    Greetings fellow content authors!

    After ten hours of UGC play and review, I have decided that I should probably post on the forums a simple to follow and easy to understand guide that will help make your authored content flow together much better, and will make the vast majority of your fellow STO players have a much better experience while playing content that you have created. I know that some of us can be real douchebags when it comes to this subject, so I will try to create this in the least derogatory way possible. [I highlighted your grammatical errors. UGC is not defined. Forums is plural, it needs to be singular. You used a comma to connect a complete sentence and a incomplete sentence. For the use of a comma with a conjunction both sentence must stand alone and be complete sentences. The last sentence adds value statements to the statement which invalidate your statement.]

    Please keep in mind that your created content should have correct grammar, spelling and syntax (the way your words combine to form sentences, phrases and paragraphs). I know that to some this may seem trivial, but I assure you that it is not. The reason is this: while your content may be some of the most wicked awesome content the game has ever seen,[This sentence is not grammatically correct] it doesn't mean anything if you can't spell correctly, if if[ You used 'if' two times] the dialogue boxes we see are filled with broken sentences that don't make any[This word is not necessary] sense.

    Follow these simple steps, and your UGC will always be viewed as intelligent, creative, informative and well-constructed. [Improper use of a conjunction and comma]

    Step One: Spelling.
    Honestly, there is nothing more important in the world than spelling. You can be the richest person in the world, but that doesn't mean anything if you can't spell the name of your bank, or your own name on the deposit slip. [Improper use of conjunctions and comma] Two simple letters can be the difference between addressing your love sonnet to Mary, or to Larry. Other than these obvious examples, proper spelling makes you look intelligent. [This is an opinion, and it only goes to face validity. Face validity in itself is not a true form of validity] Let's face it, we all want to look smarter than we really are. [This is an opinion, and it is not necessary to the paragraph]

    Step Two: Punctuation
    Use it. If you dont [You missed the apostrophe] use punctuation all your words in all your sentences and paragraphs will be combined in to one ridiculously unbroken sentence that is nearly impossible to follow because we will have no idea how to find the differences between subject predicate theme and every other part of a sentence even though it sounds right in your head when you put it to paper or in this case type and if there was any confusion about what Im talking about here its because this entire paragraph except for the first two words to make my point as clear as humanly possible so be sure to use your periods commas apostrophes parentheses brackets semicolons dashes slashes quotation marks ellipses exclamation marks and question marks but try to stay away from ampersands & asterisks * hashes # percent symbols % carets ^ angle brackets < and > and tildes ~ because all of these have little or no use in the written language aside from their mathematical or numerical values if by chance you have to use one it is always better just to spell out the word instead of use the symbol the reason for this is because youre communicating via written language and not a mathematical equation so you would want to type exactly as you would expect to hear it for example you would say shields down to twenty five percent instead of shields down to twenty five percent symbol now I know its a lot easier to just enter in the percent symbol but thats not how it is supposed to be done [This paragraph needs significant work]

    Step Three: Grammar
    Grammar, grammar grammar...you make the world turn. Grammar is a simple set of rules that govern how our languages is structured. Without it, nobody would understand what exactly it is you're trying to communicate. Everyone knows (or should know) the difference between noun, verb, adjective, et cetera, but there's more to grammar than just those definitions. Grammar, in it's most basic form, brings the parts of your sentence together to form an idea or phrase. [This is not correct. A phrase cannot stand alone as a sentence because it does not convey a complete thought or idea] Grammar can bring the words 'ball' 'bat' and 'boy' into a cohesive sentence: The boy bats the ball.

    More importantly, grammar holds the key to unlocking the difference between the most commonly misused words. See below.
    YOUR is possessive, as in you own something. "Those are your shoes, bro."
    YOU'RE is a contraction of 'you' and 'are.' As in "You're kinda cute."
    ITS is possessive, like 'your,' "The chameleon is known for its ability to change colors."
    IT'S is a contraction of 'it' and 'is.' "It's kinda funny that I'm going through this whole list."
    A LOT is two words. Get used to it. [ This is a colloquial and not a proper use of grammar]
    TO denotes a destination or recipient. "Who are you going to give that to?"
    TOO means the same as 'also.' "I'm going too."
    TWO is a number.
    THERE is a location. "I'm going over there."
    THEY'RE is a contraction of 'they' and 'are.' "They're going too."
    THEIR is possessive. "Those are their shoes, not ours."
    THEN has to do with time. "I'm going to do this, then I am going to do that."
    THAN is comparative. "You're way hotter than Sally is."
    LOSE is a verb. "Did you lose your sock?"
    LOOSE is an adjective, meaning not tight. "That knot up there is pretty loose."
    FOR is possessive. "This is for Tom."
    FOUR is a number.
    OH is an expression of acceptance or understanding "Oh..."aa
    ZERO is not an oh. It is a number.
    WHO deals with the object of conversation "Who is playing that wicked guitar solo?"
    WHOM deals with the subject of conversation. "Whom am I speaking with?"
    WHOSE represents ownership. "Whose car is that?"
    WHO'S is a contraction of 'who' and 'is.' "Who's that smoking hot blonde over there?"

    Step Four: Syntax
    Syntax is a property of grammar that governs how our words interact with one another. Without it, our sentences would resemble "Tom Hey will your car borrow?" [This rule only applies to non inflective languages. In Latin and Greek syntax, the word order is not necessary. Your use of conjugations and declensions determine the meaning of the sentence. You use of Et cetera which is Latin can be written 'cetera et'. Although you spelled it wrong. 'Ceterus, a, um' means the other. An 'i' added to the end makes it plural because Latin adjectives end in 'i' in the plural. 'Et' is the Latin term or conjunction which means 'and; also; even; moreover'] Our syntax law [It is not a law] creates the rules that bring our words together into an actual cohesive and complete sentence. If you break those rules, your sentences won't make sense to anybody. Be mindful of how your sentences are constructed! Poorly built sentences are hard to understand, and nobody will ever bother to read them.

    Step Five: Nomenclature
    Please, be creative when you make names for your creations (NPCs, planets, ships, et cetera) in public content. Not everyone has the same sense of humor your [Misspelled] do, so when you name something that you think is funny someone is probably going to think it's stupid. [opinion] It's also best to research the the common names of the race/culture you wish your object to be a part of. Creative names that are accurate for the species/culture you're trying to emulate mean better immersion and an overall better experience while playing your created content.

    The purpose of grammar is to help facilitate a common or standard way people communicate. With this form of media, the device we use here is writing. A big part of writing is the ability to construct paragraphs with four to five sentences. The first sentence is usually the topic sentence. Then the next four sentences are support for the topic sentence.

    If you intend to craft a article about grammar, then it is generally best to practice competent grammar skills. In the crafting of written material, one does not use contractions. Also, one does not use numbers in a written work. The rule is to write the number in word form. Also, if you use acronyms, you should define them early in your article so that every reader will know what you intend to mean.

    Also, if you define terms or ideals that are not your own, you need to provide references to the source you formulated your idea from. Then you must provide a reference list or working bibliography for the sources you used to formulate your thoughts, opinions, or proposals. Likewise, you must formulate your arguments into formal propositions with premises and conclusions.

    I am just pointing out, if you write an article about other people writing with good grammar skills, then the article you write should demonstrate good grammar skills.

    Thank you :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I was really surprised by the amount of feedback I received when I published my mission. I never knew there was so much reviewing going on. One thing that was reflected back in general: the grammar in the story was making people itch. I did some proof reading in Word, and I was under the impression I got most of it out.

    Myself being Dutch, I can speak and and make myself understandable in the English language. But I will probably never be a top notch writer.

    To let myself learn, but also give examples to others reading this thread, I am quoting all my mission text boxes. Please go all grammar police on me, but please do so in a constructive fashion. :)
    Your ship is called in to explore the Gamma quadrant, after some disturbing readings were received from the listening posts past the wormhole.

    [MissionInfo]Dock at Deep Space 9 and report to Admiral Marconi (located on the upper floor), where you receive further instructions.[/MissionInfo]
    [Rank] [LastName]. We need you to head to Deep Space 9. We received word from our post at the Gamma Quadrant that a situation is developing.

    I cannot discuss much over this open communication line. Please report to me at Deep Space 9, and we talk further.

    [MissionInfo]Report to
    Admiral Marconi at Deep Space 9. The admiral is located on the second level.[/MissionInfo]
    [Rank], good that you arrived. We got a situation in the Gamma quadrant, what worries Starfleet command.

    Bajor is one of the younger Federation members, and Starfleet received official request from their government to investigate a tablet in the Gamma Quadrant. Ancient texts are giving a clue for a grim future ahead.

    Starfleet selected you and your crew to investigate the situation.
    You will not go alone; You have been assigned three specialist who will assist you in this mission. They will brief you on the details that we know once you are on the other side of the wormhole.

    I wish you good luck out there [Rank]. The Gamma quadrant remains a dangerous place.

    [MissionInfo]Beam to your ship by going to the Ship Docking Doors, located at the ground level below the Admiral.[/MissionInfo]
    [ShipFullName] here Deep Space 9 control. You are clear to enter the wormhole.

    Starfleet regulations require you to check in at three checkpoints during wormhole travel to ensure safe passage

    [MissionInfo]Warp to the wormhole by approaching the beacon[/MissionInfo]

    This is ship [ShipRegistry] contacting Starfleet. Reached checkpoint one in Wormhole travel to Gamma Quadrant.

    Entering confirmation code..
    Acknowledged [ShipRegistry].

    Proceed to the next contact point.
    This is ship [ShipRegistry] contacting Starfleet. Reached checkpoint two in Wormhole travel to Gamma Quadrant.

    Captain, please enter your confirmation code.

    Captain, did you hear me? CAPTAIN?

    [MissionInfo]Medical team to the bridge! The captain is unwell.[/MissionInfo]
    The Sisko talked about this day. Ever since we could not finish what we started, we waited.

    The time is now, the time for the reckoning. You should prepare [NickName]. We need you.

    You know when the time is right. Seek out to us then.

    Be warned [Nickname], your path remains unclear till the Reckoning is over. Do NOT stray.
    Can you hear me?

    Look, the captain is blinking and coming about!
    Captain! You are consciousness again, and just in time.

    We just arrived in the Idran sector captain. Our hails are not answered by the Starbase and there is a squadron of True Way here!

    [MissionInfo]Defeat the True Way squadrons[/MissionInfo]
    Haha, good work [Rank]! I hope that took not much of your skill, as these were only photonic. What you encounter out there will be far more challenging.

    My name is Fleet Admiral Darren; the commander of our base of operations in the Gamma Quadrant. In my old age I think life should be entertaining once in a while. I hope that did not offend you. As a Trill you seen it all.

    Please engage standard orbit around our station. We talk further inside.
    You will be escorted throughout the Starbase captain, if any help is needed.
    [LastName] of the [ShipFullName] - [ShipRegistry]. Who did not hear about the encounters of you and your crew. I am glad you could join us here in the Gamma Quadrant [Rank].

    Ever since the peace treaty with the Dominion, splinter cells of the "True Way" are striking hard. We are here to explore the Gamma Quadrant and aid all civilizations, but the True Way is determined to prevent the Federation to step a foot in the Gamma Quadrant.

    Starfleet has a dedicated fleet, with Idran Station as its main base of operations set up in the Gamma Quadrant. We make sure the Federation can explore and assist the victims of the Dominion war.

    We will soon send you out [Nickname], but first take a rest and enjoy the base. Report to me tomorrow and we will get underway.

    [MissionInfo]You are done with the Prologue.

    Watch out for Part 1, where the story of the Reckoning continues..[/MissionInfo]
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    maina wrote: »
    Who is teaching you to walk?

    Let me guess, you have no idea of how language has evolved or what prose means. You have a style guide in front of you right? Go buy another one, from another English speaking country, compare them. I'm saying the rules and guidelines are broken because they are not 100% correct, or at the least understood. You did see the example or two in the parts you didn't quote?

    I'm sorry. The Starfleet Style Manual has been written and we all must obey. If I cared about this, I would copy a few lines from a high school text and call it a guide to UGC writing also.

    Learning to walk means learning to run, it also means learning to fall, watch any child, they develop a style. Walking after you have "learned it" does not mean you are doing right compared to others watching.

    All this sarcasm comes from the fact that the best all of you can do is forum police using English (your form) grammar. I haven't seen the story structure or elements of character design posts that should be considered "good". Just more "my way" grammer. I don't disagree with most of the op's post, just it's presentation and it's assumption that it's the way it should be. We are not writing a business proposal or a tech paper, so I don't care what you think you have learned in a simple trade school.

    This is language and written communication for entertainment. I've brought this up before, learn to write for the medium or fail.

    Not to mention, have you looked at the OP? I see no format there that would pass for even a high school paper. Wall of text, with a line between each wall.

    A very simple post like the OP's won't stop any eye bleeds, the people that need it won't read it. The rest of us argue whether or not it's 100% correct.



    I like your post. In general I just disagree with the tone of the OP as well as the usual lack of tolerance for differences. On vent this is the kind of post that would argue TO-MOT-TOE over TO-MATE-O, I even would have ignored it if it wasn't a comment about usage presented as a poorly formatted, condescending "guide" that seem cut and pasted. Not to mention, where is the literary flavor, creative license, or general acceptance that fiction is.

    This would sum it all up, a guide to the academic and proper use of someones English, that was not written well enough to be academic and means nothing to the genre, or even medium that it is meant for, is kinda moot. +1 post is all.

    EDIT=Piwright42 you changed your avatar? I liked the venture brothers.......

    As a wannabe writer, who is in love with the English language, I cannot dismiss the OP out of hand. It is true Spelling grammar and syntax are important.

    Still I have an AA in English. Funny when I went into it I expected to be lamb blasted for those three things. I can't even remember what a present participle is. Yet because I love to read I was able to avoid many of the ills the OP mentioned intuitively, (spelling and abuse of the comma are other matters). So to me a style guide is the furthest thing from good writing. If you want to be good at writing you need to love to read first. How else will you be able to learn by example? Read and learn to pay attention to what you really read. Learn to take it apart. Learn to make it your own.

    Really if the story is good and the writing is in the ball park why mark it down a grade? Besides to many of our fellow players English is a second language. Why penalize them?

    About my new avatar, I kinda empathize with The Monarch's Henchman 24.

    It's from a Henchman 24 shirt. You know Gary's, (AKA Henchman 21), dead buddy on The Monarch's crew. Gary has Hench4Life tattooed across his upper belly. No worries I am still too much of a Venture Bros fanboi. Jason Publik, Doc Hammer, and Ben Edlund are animated comedy gods. Well that's my opinion...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    piwright42 wrote: »
    As a wannabe writer, who is in love with the English language, I cannot dismiss the OP out of hand. It is true Spelling grammar and syntax are important.

    Still I have an AA in English. Funny when I went into it I expected to be lamb blasted for those three things. I can't even remember what a present participle is. Yet because I love to read I was able to avoid many of the ills the OP mentioned intuitively, (spelling and abuse of the comma are other matters). So to me a style guide is the furthest thing from good writing. If you want to be good at writing you need to love to read first. How else will you be able to learn by example? Read and learn to pay attention to what you really read. Learn to take it apart. Learn to make it your own.

    Really if the story is good and the writing is in the ball park why mark it down a grade? Besides to many of our fellow players English is a second language. Why penalize them?

    About my new avatar, I kinda empathize with The Monarch's Henchman 24.

    It's from a Henchman 24 shirt. You know Gary's, (AKA Henchman 21), dead buddy on The Monarch's crew. Gary has Hench4Life tattooed across his upper belly. No worries I am still too much of a Venture Bros fanboi. Jason Publik, Doc Hammer, and Ben Edlund are animated comedy gods. Well that's my opinion...

    A participle converts a verb into a adjective. It is mainly used in Latin with verb conjugations. To really understand their use talk to anyone who knows Latin or Greek. An English major will mess it all up for you, since the English ripped off the Germans when they formulated their rules of grammar. The Germans Rules of Grammar evolved from Latin. The Latins borrowed the Greek rules of Grammar. It is all Aeneas fault.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    A participle converts a verb into a adjective. It is mainly used in Latin with verb conjugations. To really understand their use talk to anyone who knows Latin or Greek. An English major will mess it all up for you, since the English ripped off the Germans when they formulated their rules of grammar. The Germans Rules of Grammar evolved from Latin. The Latins borrowed the Greek rules of Grammar. It is all Aeneas fault.

    That was epic and given what I know of Roman military campaigns and the Roman appropriation of Greek mythology, there is truth to it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    piwright42 wrote: »
    I expected to be lamb blasted

    Although the correct term is lambasted, I presume this was deliberate and now makes me wish we had a weapon that fires sheep. :D

    It's an interesting challenge for non-English speakers. It would be better if missions could be shared without being open to a swathe of one-star reviews because of poor language skills. This way, someone who knows their English isn't up to scratch, and wants to make it better, can get a friend to go through and offer constructive criticism before the public sees it.

    The crucial thing here is intent. If someone wants to make their missions the best they can be, learning in the process, they deserve all the assistance the community can offer.

    If they'd rather vomit on the keyboard, hiding behind excuses and refusing to better themselves, then they frankly deserve a trip to Bovine University.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Although the correct term is lambasted, I presume this was deliberate and now makes me wish we had a weapon that fires sheep. :D

    It's an interesting challenge for non-English speakers. It would be better if missions could be shared without being open to a swathe of one-star reviews because of poor language skills. This way, someone who knows their English isn't up to scratch, and wants to make it better, can get a friend to go through and offer constructive criticism before the public sees it.

    The crucial thing here is intent. If someone wants to make their missions the best they can be, learning in the process, they deserve all the assistance the community can offer.

    If they'd rather vomit on the keyboard, hiding behind excuses and refusing to better themselves, then they frankly deserve a trip to Bovine University.

    Seriously? I have always wondered if what I heard was right. I have corrected others to lambasted only to get yelled at for it. Thanks for the heads up.

    By the way awesome post. We have been given the ability to review and collaborate on these missions in many ways we can help each other make our dialogue better.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    This thread has progressed just about the way I expected. The lecturer has become the lectuered. I love it :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    The Collective supports the OP.

    Since not we are not Anglo-centric we recognize that not all content creators are native English speakers.

    Furthermore, we recognize there is no way to distinguish between content creators who are non-native English speakers; proudly putting their artistic creations in the public domain thereby exposing themselves to criticism (which is not often kind), and their opposite; native English speakers who have spent too much time Emailing, Blogging, Tweeting, and Texting, and not enough time paying attention in English class thereby shamefully representing the speakers of such a versatile language which has had a profound impact on our global community.

    English is a rich, beautiful, and versatile language which is embarrassingly complex.

    So a grateful THANK YOU to all the non-native English speaking content creators on STO.
    To the native English speakers; If you use the language every day please try to use it correctly.

    I, too, am frustrated by content with shoddy grammar and spelling. Sometimes I wish there was a content rating button labeled "Do not apply directly to the eyes"


    *Edit* Arrrgggh! I'm guilty. I just noticed a typo in my mission accept dialogue. I'm such an embarrassment. But since we're plagued by the Foundry Save Bug & even though my entire creation is live on Tribble, the version I have access to in The Foundry is the skeleton first rough draft, I can't be bothered to spend another 4 hours recreating it just for one typo.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    This thread has progressed just about the way I expected. The lecturer has become the lectuered. I love it :D

    I too am a little bit surprised as to how this threat turned out. Although I fully expected to be lectured in return, though I did not expect it to become the insult-fest that it did on Page Two.

    The reality of the situation is that nobody's perfect. My post has structural errors and two run-on sentences (among others). Let's face it, everybody makes mistakes when it comes to the English language regardless of how much education or background one may have in it. I make mistakes, you (plural, not specific) make mistakes, everyone does.

    My post was not intended at all to be the supreme law of the land. My post was also not intended to belittle any one person at all. The post does not contain any negative remarks, does not single anyone out, does not state that the OP is infallible and does not state that non-native English speakers have no place in the UGC creation universe. I understand that this may come off as "preachy" but I would rather sound "preachy" than insult random UGC creators.

    My post does contain a tips and hints that will help your content flow together smoothly. As I stated, you could have the best UGC mission ever, but if the language is broken or used improperly, the vast majority of players will dismiss it early and move on to something else. This is a world of people who cast judgement without ever taking the time to look at the big picture.

    _________________________

    The OP supports The Collective. This post was not aimed to insult native and non-native English speaking persons alike, and it does not. The same cannot be said by the random thread replies that appear every day in these forums that attack and insult one's use of the language instead of answering the question that was asked. It has become so harsh, that non-native speakers have to begin their questions with a disclaimer and ask that nobody attack them for their use of the language on the forum (requests that are largely ignored). Instead of falling into this routine (which I am guilty of myself occasionally), I decided to take a different approach. The response to which shows that nobody is free of negative attacks by forum posters.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    -One- wrote: »
    *Edit* Arrrgggh! I'm guilty. I just noticed a typo...{deleted for brevity}

    It's nearly impossible to write perfectly. The brain can trick the author, no matter how skilled or educated he or she is. I write a lot, and I can read my material a hundred times and catch a typo on every read. Now, I hope that we can differentiate between lack of knowledge and mere typos. Good spellers aren't always good typists.

    So while the OP's post had some typos, which appears to be merely bad typing and solo proofreading, the OP was attempting to share knowledge about using good English in your missions. That admonishment should also apply to other languages, Spanish, German, etc.

    If you are offended by some technical writing criticism, please consider therapy. I rely upon others to point out my mistakes and typos, and upon receiving that information, I'm more liable to respond, "Thanks," instead of "how dare you insult my intelligence!"

    And my humble suggestion is not to solo proofread your material. Your brain will let you down every time. As you're reading your own material, your brain knows what it should say. It fills in the blanks. So while immersed, and your eyes hit a typo, your brain may quickly solve the puzzle and let you continue without interruption. But if you're reading someone else's material, your brain won't do that as much, because it's trying to absorb the material. A typo will interrupt that process.

    {Edited to fix typo (LOL)}
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    There's a difference between a forum post and mission content. The first is relatively disposable and the odd mistake can be excused. (Hey, we're all writing quickly and some of us have had the odd libation :)) But spelling mistakes and poor grammar are jarring for many of us when reading missions. If I see 'Starleet' instead of 'Starfleet' or 'Klinkon' instead of 'Klingon' it will affect my enjoyment of the mission. It would be good if mission content writers could take some time to get this right (as well as writing compelling mission as well, of course!)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Telaura wrote: »
    I too am a little bit surprised as to how this threat turned out. Although I fully expected to be lectured in return, though I did not expect it to become the insult-fest that it did on Page Two.

    The reality of the situation is that nobody's perfect. My post has structural errors and two run-on sentences (among others). Let's face it, everybody makes mistakes when it comes to the English language regardless of how much education or background one may have in it. I make mistakes, you (plural, not specific) make mistakes, everyone does.

    My post was not intended at all to be the supreme law of the land. My post was also not intended to belittle any one person at all. The post does not contain any negative remarks, does not single anyone out, does not state that the OP is infallible and does not state that non-native English speakers have no place in the UGC creation universe. I understand that this may come off as "preachy" but I would rather sound "preachy" than insult random UGC creators.

    My post does contain a tips and hints that will help your content flow together smoothly. As I stated, you could have the best UGC mission ever, but if the language is broken or used improperly, the vast majority of players will dismiss it early and move on to something else. This is a world of people who cast judgement without ever taking the time to look at the big picture.

    _________________________

    The OP supports The Collective. This post was not aimed to insult native and non-native English speaking persons alike, and it does not. The same cannot be said by the random thread replies that appear every day in these forums that attack and insult one's use of the language instead of answering the question that was asked. It has become so harsh, that non-native speakers have to begin their questions with a disclaimer and ask that nobody attack them for their use of the language on the forum (requests that are largely ignored). Instead of falling into this routine (which I am guilty of myself occasionally), I decided to take a different approach. The response to which shows that nobody is free of negative attacks by forum posters.

    If you had left the article to just suggestions with supporting factual documentation, then you would not have open yourself up to argument or criticism. However, you used statements that were nothing more then opinion. You did not take into account the general audience of the game and the forum. The first step in the writing process is to 'know your audience.'

    Writing is a process. Grammar allows for mistakes when people are brainstorming for ideas. This is called free-writing. This forum and game has an audience that is composed of English writers and non-English writers. This audience is also composed of children, teenagers, and adults. Will every story written by everyone be free of grammatical error? I think the answer to that is No.

    Again, writing is a process. Since this is a new product on a Public Test Server (Tribble), then most people will probably be writing with a loose form or non-restrictive form of grammar. On another note, grammar does take into account the concept of manner and context. The rules of grammar may vary from poetry, formal writing, and casual writing.

    However, people are human beings and will probably make mistakes in written work. Again writing is a process. Each draft or story you create with the Foundry will most likely have grammatical errors. Grammatical errors do not render any written work invalid. The spelling and use of punctuation only serve in the form of face validity. Face validity is not true validity.

    Where you went wrong in your suggestion is that you started off by lecturing the audience. In turn, the audience lectured back. The instant you decided in your suggestion to create value statements, such as smarter, we all want to be smarter, or other value statements you used in the original post (OP), you open yourself up to criticism by anyone who reads the thread.

    Also, this suggestion you created is indicative of a person who is a bottom-up type. When you start your process of creating or learning new material, you focus on structure, spelling, and punctuation. A person who is top-down in nature will not work this way at all. They will be more concern with how the pieces of the story all work together. Once they [top-down type] have the overall story worked out, then they will make all the grammatical corrections.

    Neither type is wrong or right in manner or method. They are just different.

    I can write for myself and say, 'I took no offense to what you wrote.'

    I found it humorous that a article written about grammatical errors had grammatical errors. Likewise, I took the time to point out your grammatical errors in your article. It may very well be childish on my part. However, you lectured me, so I may lecture you. You open the door.

    Philosophical note: People have two parts to there nature; intellectual knowledge (intelligence) + worldly experience (wisdom) = whole human being. :)

    I feel and think your original post was not insulting at all, nor do I think or feel it was intended to insult anyone. However, that is my individual opinion. If you really read the article, it does belittle people. You in essence wrote an article that said, 'I am an authority on written English and grammar. Please make my life comfortable by following my suggestions. If you do not follow them, then you will be viewed as stupid.'

    I cannot imagine why anyone would take offense to that. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    This thread started to heat up to argument levels on page two but thankfully cooled down on page three, such that I hope it won't get pulled before the discussion can play out.

    Grammar and Spelling do count in writing and we, as writers, need to keep that in mind. As the additional posters so gleefully pointed out the multiple errors in the OP; so did the classic problem of talking about G & S on the Internet occurred. All too often, discussion of G & S gets into places in which we snipe at each other rather than addressing the problem as a whole.

    One positive point that was brought up was that some of our fellow writers are non-native English speakers. This was not something, I had considered when first pondered the issue, but now I realize I was taken a far too narrow view of language. To the non-native speakers, I salute you. Far too few residents of the United States would even consider learning a second language, let alone one as maddeningly inconsistent and complex as English. As the writer James Nicoll put it, in the context of the 'purity' of English, "...We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."

    There really is no such thing as Pure Language. What we see as immutable, can and will evolve. However, as the classic quote goes "The line must be drawn here! This far and no further!" Grammar and Spelling must be considered as key elements of writing. To do otherwise is to journey down the path of mediocrity that ultimately devalues the writing as a whole. Mindfulness is key, otherwise we start with the puzzling spelling inconstancies of Stephen Ratliff ("All Turbolifts cleat," Data said.) and end with the something like this:

    Kirk: SPOK
    Spock:!1!11!1 OMG WTF TEH SHIP.!!!111111!11111!1 OMG LOL OUT OF DANGER
    Kirk:???!!!!! LOL YES
    Spock:!!!1!! WTF DONT GREIVE ADMIRAL!1!111! OMG WTF LOL IT SI LOGICAL!!11!!1 OMG WTF LOL DA NEDS OF DA MANY OUTWAIGH.
    Kirk:!1!11!1!1!!!11!11! LOL .TH3!11111!!1111111!!1 OMG LOL NEDS OF DA F3W.
    Spock:!1!11!!!!11!111!1!!!!11 OMG LOL .OR!1!!!!11!!1!!!1!1111! OMG WTF TEH ON3!1!!!111! OMG WTF I NEVER 2K DA KOBAYASHI MARU TAST UNTIL NOW!1!!1 WTF WUT DO U THINK OF MAH SOLUTION
    Spock:??!?!! WTF I HAEV B3N AND ALWAYS SHAL B UR FREIND
    [Holds up his hand in the Vulcan salute]
    Spock: LIEV LONG AND PROSPAR!1!111 OMG LOL


    SPAEC DA FINAL FRONTEIR!1!1!! OMG WTF THASE R TEH CONTINUNG VOYAEGS OF TEH STARSHIP ENTERPRIES!!1!1 HER ONGONG MISION 2 EXPLOR3 STRANGE NU WORLDS 2 SEK OUT NU LIEF FORMS AND NU CIVILIZATIONS 2 BOLDLEY GO WHERA NO MAN HAS GONA BFORE!111!!1!! OMG
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    jennjahn wrote: »
    Kirk: SPOK
    Spock:!1!11!1 OMG WTF TEH SHIP.!!!111111!11111!1 OMG LOL OUT OF DANGER
    Kirk:???!!!!! LOL YES
    Spock:!!!1!! WTF DONT GREIVE ADMIRAL!1!111! OMG WTF LOL IT SI LOGICAL!!11!!1 OMG WTF LOL DA NEDS OF DA MANY OUTWAIGH.
    Kirk:!1!11!1!1!!!11!11! LOL .TH3!11111!!1111111!!1 OMG LOL NEDS OF DA F3W.
    Spock:!1!11!!!!11!111!1!!!!11 OMG LOL .OR!1!!!!11!!1!!!1!1111! OMG WTF TEH ON3!1!!!111! OMG WTF I NEVER 2K DA KOBAYASHI MARU TAST UNTIL NOW!1!!1 WTF WUT DO U THINK OF MAH SOLUTION
    Spock:??!?!! WTF I HAEV B3N AND ALWAYS SHAL B UR FREIND
    [Holds up his hand in the Vulcan salute]
    Spock: LIEV LONG AND PROSPAR!1!111 OMG LOL


    SPAEC DA FINAL FRONTEIR!1!1!! OMG WTF THASE R TEH CONTINUNG VOYAEGS OF TEH STARSHIP ENTERPRIES!!1!1 HER ONGONG MISION 2 EXPLOR3 STRANGE NU WORLDS 2 SEK OUT NU LIEF FORMS AND NU CIVILIZATIONS 2 BOLDLEY GO WHERA NO MAN HAS GONA BFORE!111!!1!! OMG

    I feel... old...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Telaura wrote: »
    I understand that this may come off as "preachy" but I would rather sound "preachy" than insult random UGC creators.

    If those were your only 2 options, I would agree. But their not. Its possible to give helpful advice WITHOUT sounding sanctimonious OR insulting specific people.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    jennjahn wrote: »
    SPAEC DA FINAL FRONTEIR!1!1!! OMG WTF THASE R TEH CONTINUNG VOYAEGS OF TEH STARSHIP ENTERPRIES!!1!1 HER ONGONG MISION 2 EXPLOR3 STRANGE NU WORLDS 2 SEK OUT NU LIEF FORMS AND NU CIVILIZATIONS 2 BOLDLEY GO WHERA NO MAN HAS GONA BFORE!111!!1!! OMG

    Thanks for the chuckle :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    If those were your only 2 options, I would agree. But their not. Its possible to give helpful advice WITHOUT sounding sanctimonious OR insulting specific people.

    There are those who police. Then there are those who police the police. Then there are those who police the police who police the police. What we really need are police to police the police who police the police who police the police.
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