Maybe the review process should have the authors as anonymous. and once published can carry the authors name?
That works up until the point you have people advertising their content by name, or some other identifying characteristic. I thought about that a few pages back... just no way to protect that information from being passed around outside the control of the game.
There are certain people who will find ways to abuse the system. It is inevitable. Doesn't mean Cryptic can't find ways to plug up these holes or we shouldn't have UGC.
Firstly I would like to say thank you to dstahl and StormShade for all of the info in your posts, much appreciated and I fully approve of the proposed system.
I completely understand that, and thanks again for the reply. However, my question is the same. How long do you anticipate it to take for the community to approve a mission? How long do you personally think is a "reasonable" amount of time? And again, what is to ensure that every published mission actually gets tested and not ignored or overlooked for any number of reasons?
Secondly, all I can say to this, and to all members her interested in becoming publishers or reviewers is, you are more than welcome to add me as a friend and I will eventually play through and rate your missions.
This is pretty much my concern. It sounds like only the most "vocal" people on the forums will get their missions tested, and anyone who DOESNT use the forums will pretty much never have a chance.
To this, all I can say is spread the word in zone chat, to your friends and fleet mates.
To this, all I can say is spread the word in zone chat, to your friends and fleet mates.
If that's what it takes for content to move through the system then it's a big "F You" to those who aren't highly social... and this game has no requirement for anyone to be social. My fleet and any friends I had in-game have already quit. If that means my content will be passed over by that which comes from people with friends, well.... they just alienated many of the casual gamers this game targets.
kills all missions available to review
doesn't even bother to play them
The devs already said the content has to be played through to be reviewed.
But.. that's not saying much.
A person could speed through without paying attention, or might not explore all the dialogue paths to ensure they all work.
If that's what it takes for content to move through the system then it's a big "F You" to those who aren't highly social... and this game has no requirement for anyone to be social. My fleet and any friends I had in-game have already quit. If that means my content will be passed over by that which comes from people with friends, well.... they just alienated many of the casual gamers this game targets.
I can see where your coming from, however a new type of fleet will start popping up
you guessed it, mission writers fleets...a fleet for writers to promote and showcase thier work.
If that's what it takes for content to move through the system then it's a big "F You" to those who aren't highly social... and this game has no requirement for anyone to be social. My fleet and any friends I had in-game have already quit. If that means my content will be passed over by that which comes from people with friends, well.... they just alienated many of the casual gamers this game targets.
You know it's kind of true. You may not think it because i post on here, but I am actually quite shy and self depreciating. I dont know that I have the confidence to PUSH to get my work seen. I feel I would need help with that IF it's going to be a case of the best advertise make it. Yet in one way I am shy but another creative, I hope this doesn't mean IF i do make a mission or more that I wont have a chance...
If that's what it takes for content to move through the system then it's a big "F You" to those who aren't highly social... and this game has no requirement for anyone to be social. My fleet and any friends I had in-game have already quit. If that means my content will be passed over by that which comes from people with friends, well.... they just alienated many of the casual gamers this game targets.
it's an MMO...being social is part of the game, sorry.
it's an MMO...being social is part of the game, sorry.
Thats not actually true, sorry. If you havent noticed, STO is 95% instanced, and you can completely play through virtually the entire game without ever teaming. Its completely optional, not some requirement. Many people play MMOs for the simple fact that they receive new content updates, which single player games do not.
You know it's kind of true. You may not think it because i post on here, but I am actually quite shy and self depreciating. I dont know that I have the confidence to PUSH to get my work seen. I feel I would need help with that IF it's going to be a case of the best advertise make it. Yet in one way I am shy but another creative, I hope this doesn't mean IF i do make a mission or more that I wont have a chance...
You don't necessarily have to PUSH, guys and gals. You could simply include your mission in the geographic UGC directory in the wiki. If someone is browsing for a diplomacy mission at ds9, they'll see your mission right alongside all others. If they like the title, they'll click the page to see a description. If they like that, then they'll search for it and play it.
You don't have to be flashy and obnoxious about it. Just help us make sure that people know it's out there.
Thats not actually true, sorry. If you havent noticed, STO is 95% instanced, and you can completely play through virtually the entire game without ever teaming. Its completely optional, not some requirement. Many people play MMOs for the simple fact that they receive new content updates, which single player games do not.
You may not HAVE to take part in the social aspect, but it's there in EVERY MMO. So if you want your UGC mission to be seen, you'd better take advantage of it.
it's an MMO...being social is part of the game, sorry.
Point of fact... I'm more social over the Steam overlay with other Steam players than I am with people in STO.
STO doesn't require, promote, or encourage communication. It allows for it, sure, but, as Nagus said, the vast majority of the game doesn't need it. I think his 95% is actually being generous. The only content that requires actual communication is STF's, which I'd say is about 1% of the content. Fleet Actions require bodies but they have little to no need to work closely with each other.
Point of fact... I'm more social over the Steam overlay with other Steam players than I am with people in STO.
STO doesn't require, promote, or encourage communication. It allows for it, sure, but, as Nagus said, the vast majority of the game doesn't need it. I think his 95% is actually being generous. The only content that requires actual communication is STF's, which I'd say is about 1% of the content. Fleet Actions require bodies but they have little to no need to work closely with each other.
this isn't about just "communication". This is about being social, ie the whole point of social areas like Quarks. I realize a good majority of the game can be completed on your own.
it's more than that though, i would say wow was a social game. You can do large portions on your own but the whole game just gives you so many reasons and a much harder push to be social. Despite the areas in sto, for many people it's a sinlge player game for them. If not single player a majority of the content is played alone by quite a few people.
I think the problem is people think mmo=wow. and actually wow is just an mmo it's rules dont apply to other games in the genre, and obvious statement i know..but one i think needs to be said at time as a reminder
I think fleets are one of the greatest potential problems of the system. They could lead to unequal and bias reviewing, to say the least--especially if the number of approvals are within a fleet's capacity to give; content might be approved regardless of quality, simply because it's made by a fleet-mate.
So far the system sounds like majority rule with no "individual rights" to guarantee authors their content will be reviewed promptly or fairly.
A double-edged sword. If the author has a negative reputation on the forums, their content might be that much more ignored. A popularity contest, for good or for bad.
Why are you concerned if your missions is reviewed? I see it as an opportunity to explore ideas.
bragging is arrogant, self prmoting is not. If you promote yourself with a sense of humility and show respct and thanks for people trying your missions..it's not the same. not to me anyway. Just my point of view
I don't see why anyone would care if someone played their mission or not. I see it as like writing a holodeck program for yourself.
this isn't about just "communication". This is about being social, ie the whole point of social areas like Quarks. I realize a good majority of the game can be completed on your own.
*laughs*
Apparently I've only ever played STO in the most absolute dead hours possible, because I don't recall ever once seeing anyone socializing in Quarks when I've gone through there. Mind you, I only have a couple times. And maybe that's part of the problem. Why would people discover socializing in Quarks if they don't know it exists?
At least the STO lounge is hard to miss. Quarks can actually be hard to see if you're not specifically looking for it.
I don't see why anyone would care if someone played their mission or not. I see it as like writing a holodeck program for yourself.
That's part of the problem of the system. I think there will be many more people interested in making them than reviewing them, whether they're making it for themselves or others.
Don't forget that any mission that gets flagged as inappropriate is scheduled to be reviewed by a cryptic employee. I would assume that there is a cryptic intern system to flag troll reviews as well to weed out those troll reviews, anything else would be kind of stupid.
If that's what it takes for content to move through the system then it's a big "F You" to those who aren't highly social... and this game has no requirement for anyone to be social. My fleet and any friends I had in-game have already quit. If that means my content will be passed over by that which comes from people with friends, well.... they just alienated many of the casual gamers this game targets.
I am not your friend in real life or in game, but I would be more than happy to play test your authored mission as a reviewer (which I am not yet), with no bias, should you want to get a "private" mission into the "public" sector.
Ditto, if people feel that there will be more interest in mission making than reviewing, then I will be one of the people that will try and fil that hole. Of course I want to do this for myself, but i genuinly do want to help the community..even if from ONE aspect it is for the selfish reason of keeping sto strong.
So if there is too many mission makers and not enough reviewers, I for one would quite happily put my own mission making plans on hold and help fill that void wherever I can. The idea of testing out new content from players all across the game? fantastic! I dont care if I know you or not if you have a misson I am gonna want to play it and try it!
I think that the person writing the mission should be able to see who have reviewed them and what rate they gave it together with possibly a comment function.
That way if someone abuses the rating system and stalks a writer and rate all their missions low just because they hold a grudge for being pawned in PvP last night, then you will see that and could report it.
Unless this is made apparent for the writers, mayhem can be the end result with whole fleets roaming the UGC missions and rating them poorly just for revenge. Without anyone being able to do anything about it.
I also think there should be some way to only publish a mission to your own fleet without it having to be reviewed or accessible to by outsiders.
As for the XP issue. I think that the XP should be based on how long it takes to do a mission, for instance the Breen missions where you flew between different systems and did different things before the mission completed should generate more XP then a mission where you go in and scan 5 anomalies.
Especially for the KDF side this will be a life saver if they remove the XP cap / day and instead insert short timers, not 30 minutes but maybe 10 or 15 minutes between missions.
I am not your friend in real life or in game, but I would be more than happy to play test your authored mission as a reviewer (which I am not yet), with no bias, should you want to get a "private" mission into the "public" sector.
Ditto, if people feel that there will be more interest in mission making than reviewing, then I will be one of the people that will try and fil that hole. Of course I want to do this for myself, but i genuinly do want to help the community..even if from ONE aspect it is for the selfish reason of keeping sto strong.
So if there is too many mission makers and not enough reviewers, I for one would quite happily put my own mission making plans on hold and help fill that void wherever I can. The idea of testing out new content from players all across the game? fantastic! I dont care if I know you or not if you have a misson I am gonna want to play it and try it!
Admirable, but the two of you are certainly in the minority. And it remains to be seen if the minority will have the time and inclination to review the number of missions that will be submitted, and if that minority's interest in reviewing will remain in the coming months or years.
Do we know yet if one review is all it takes for a mission to go live? I was under the impression that it will take a certain number of reviews for a mission to be approved. That'll make it exponentially harder to get approval, but is more-or-less necessary to avoid a single person having too much power.
Admirable, but the two of you are certainly in the minority. And it remains to be seen if the minority will have the time and inclination to review the number of missions that will be submitted, and if that minority's interest in reviewing will remain in the coming months or years.
Do we know yet if one review is all it takes for a mission to go live? I was under the impression that it will take a certain number of reviews for a mission to be approved. That'll make it exponentially harder to get approval, but is more-or-less necessary to avoid a single person having too much power.
They could incentivize reviewing with cosmetic accolades or even provide a small allowance of Cryptic Points to reviewers (like, 10 CP a day for reviewing 3 UGC missions).
Apparently I've only ever played STO in the most absolute dead hours possible, because I don't recall ever once seeing anyone socializing in Quarks when I've gone through there. Mind you, I only have a couple times. And maybe that's part of the problem. Why would people discover socializing in Quarks if they don't know it exists?
At least the STO lounge is hard to miss. Quarks can actually be hard to see if you're not specifically looking for it.
Considering I spend a good deal of my time on STO there (hey, I'm there now! Hi Hadron!), I would feel authorized to say that it does attract a great deal of people.
Admirable, but the two of you are certainly in the minority. And it remains to be seen if the minority will have the time and inclination to review the number of missions that will be submitted, and if that minority's interest in reviewing will remain in the coming months or years.
Do we know yet if one review is all it takes for a mission to go live? I was under the impression that it will take a certain number of reviews for a mission to be approved. That'll make it exponentially harder to get approval, but is more-or-less necessary to avoid a single person having too much power.
Reviews != approval
approval is straight "does it violate EULA"
reviews is "how good do I think it is"
should only need one approval as the guidelines should be straightforward
Comments
AWESOME! FINALLY THE UGC SUBFORUM IS HERE!!! HELL YEAH!!!!
/celebration
That works up until the point you have people advertising their content by name, or some other identifying characteristic. I thought about that a few pages back... just no way to protect that information from being passed around outside the control of the game.
Secondly, all I can say to this, and to all members her interested in becoming publishers or reviewers is, you are more than welcome to add me as a friend and I will eventually play through and rate your missions.
To this, all I can say is spread the word in zone chat, to your friends and fleet mates.
Awesome work, thank you!
Troll reviewers...........ok scary thought
signs up
kills all missions available to review
doesn't even bother to play them
feels great, just burnt hundreds of hours of authors work...for little effort,
now they get pop corn, and watch the forums burn.
we should not call them trolls....Nero's might be better suited. The roman one, not romulan.
If that's what it takes for content to move through the system then it's a big "F You" to those who aren't highly social... and this game has no requirement for anyone to be social. My fleet and any friends I had in-game have already quit. If that means my content will be passed over by that which comes from people with friends, well.... they just alienated many of the casual gamers this game targets.
The devs already said the content has to be played through to be reviewed.
But.. that's not saying much.
A person could speed through without paying attention, or might not explore all the dialogue paths to ensure they all work.
I can see where your coming from, however a new type of fleet will start popping up
you guessed it, mission writers fleets...a fleet for writers to promote and showcase thier work.
not one or two
the super trolls...you know them, banned one day, back with new account the next :eek:
You know it's kind of true. You may not think it because i post on here, but I am actually quite shy and self depreciating. I dont know that I have the confidence to PUSH to get my work seen. I feel I would need help with that IF it's going to be a case of the best advertise make it. Yet in one way I am shy but another creative, I hope this doesn't mean IF i do make a mission or more that I wont have a chance...
it's an MMO...being social is part of the game, sorry.
Thats not actually true, sorry. If you havent noticed, STO is 95% instanced, and you can completely play through virtually the entire game without ever teaming. Its completely optional, not some requirement. Many people play MMOs for the simple fact that they receive new content updates, which single player games do not.
You don't necessarily have to PUSH, guys and gals. You could simply include your mission in the geographic UGC directory in the wiki. If someone is browsing for a diplomacy mission at ds9, they'll see your mission right alongside all others. If they like the title, they'll click the page to see a description. If they like that, then they'll search for it and play it.
You don't have to be flashy and obnoxious about it. Just help us make sure that people know it's out there.
so if someone searches say.....vulcan
people who made adventures centering on them and had the tag 'vulcan' would
pop up during the search.
You may not HAVE to take part in the social aspect, but it's there in EVERY MMO. So if you want your UGC mission to be seen, you'd better take advantage of it.
Point of fact... I'm more social over the Steam overlay with other Steam players than I am with people in STO.
STO doesn't require, promote, or encourage communication. It allows for it, sure, but, as Nagus said, the vast majority of the game doesn't need it. I think his 95% is actually being generous. The only content that requires actual communication is STF's, which I'd say is about 1% of the content. Fleet Actions require bodies but they have little to no need to work closely with each other.
this isn't about just "communication". This is about being social, ie the whole point of social areas like Quarks. I realize a good majority of the game can be completed on your own.
I think the problem is people think mmo=wow. and actually wow is just an mmo it's rules dont apply to other games in the genre, and obvious statement i know..but one i think needs to be said at time as a reminder
Why are you concerned if your missions is reviewed? I see it as an opportunity to explore ideas.
I don't see why anyone would care if someone played their mission or not. I see it as like writing a holodeck program for yourself.
*laughs*
Apparently I've only ever played STO in the most absolute dead hours possible, because I don't recall ever once seeing anyone socializing in Quarks when I've gone through there. Mind you, I only have a couple times. And maybe that's part of the problem. Why would people discover socializing in Quarks if they don't know it exists?
At least the STO lounge is hard to miss. Quarks can actually be hard to see if you're not specifically looking for it.
I don't see how this reply has anything to do with my post. My point is that, for a great many people, they might not have their content reviewed.
That's part of the problem of the system. I think there will be many more people interested in making them than reviewing them, whether they're making it for themselves or others.
I am not your friend in real life or in game, but I would be more than happy to play test your authored mission as a reviewer (which I am not yet), with no bias, should you want to get a "private" mission into the "public" sector.
So if there is too many mission makers and not enough reviewers, I for one would quite happily put my own mission making plans on hold and help fill that void wherever I can. The idea of testing out new content from players all across the game? fantastic! I dont care if I know you or not if you have a misson I am gonna want to play it and try it!
That way if someone abuses the rating system and stalks a writer and rate all their missions low just because they hold a grudge for being pawned in PvP last night, then you will see that and could report it.
Unless this is made apparent for the writers, mayhem can be the end result with whole fleets roaming the UGC missions and rating them poorly just for revenge. Without anyone being able to do anything about it.
I also think there should be some way to only publish a mission to your own fleet without it having to be reviewed or accessible to by outsiders.
As for the XP issue. I think that the XP should be based on how long it takes to do a mission, for instance the Breen missions where you flew between different systems and did different things before the mission completed should generate more XP then a mission where you go in and scan 5 anomalies.
Especially for the KDF side this will be a life saver if they remove the XP cap / day and instead insert short timers, not 30 minutes but maybe 10 or 15 minutes between missions.
Admirable, but the two of you are certainly in the minority. And it remains to be seen if the minority will have the time and inclination to review the number of missions that will be submitted, and if that minority's interest in reviewing will remain in the coming months or years.
Do we know yet if one review is all it takes for a mission to go live? I was under the impression that it will take a certain number of reviews for a mission to be approved. That'll make it exponentially harder to get approval, but is more-or-less necessary to avoid a single person having too much power.
They could incentivize reviewing with cosmetic accolades or even provide a small allowance of Cryptic Points to reviewers (like, 10 CP a day for reviewing 3 UGC missions).
Considering I spend a good deal of my time on STO there (hey, I'm there now! Hi Hadron!), I would feel authorized to say that it does attract a great deal of people.
Reviews != approval
approval is straight "does it violate EULA"
reviews is "how good do I think it is"
should only need one approval as the guidelines should be straightforward