Meh. And Kirk was resurrected by the Borg, destroyed them, and is living happily on 25th century Earth, riding horses. The novels have about as much relevance for me as my 11th toe. And I don't have an 11th toe.
Now let's not go comparing regular ol' Star Trek novels to the SHATNERVERSE!
it offers a place for some of us to live our dreams of being starship Captains...good enough for me
You can do that in a lot of Trek single-player games that exist. Bridge Commander isn't even that old and still has pretty good graphics by modern standards. It also portrays Star Trek ship combat much more accurately.
And if you're suggesting STO's ground gameplay is anything like Star Trek, well.... I don't recall Picard playing doctor when Beverly's a call away.
Still...the 12th toe is pretty relevant to Star Trek Online. (except those Destiny novels)
Well.. that's not surprising. We are talking a game that has ~150-~250 year old ships flying right alongside brand spanking new ships, being as good or better.
Well I don't mind quickly moving around as after all technology has advanced in Star Trek. I just want more places to explore. Don't make me sit for an hour like EVE. People in Star Trek always got where they needed to go fairly quickly to advance the plot.
The problem with that is if you watch the shows carefully, you notice that they often have massive distances to travel and while doing that travel other 'sub plots' were produced (the writers DID make spastic attempts at showing the galaxy as a huge place with travel times that could be weeks or more in duration).
One of the first things I noticed when I came into this game was that the 'universe' was significantly smaller than I expected from the IP. Not that I am complaining but I expected a significantly larger setting of game play. I was disappointed to find such a small galaxy. However that being said I am also glad to see that additional areas are being worked on (Deferi as an example) and that DStahl has hinted at the possibility of removing the sector warps and making the game a little more open seeming.
The difference between EVE and STO in travel really isn't as significant as some like to think. The 'claim' that eve is zoneless is not true at all. Each jump gate is a path to another zone. They just make it sound like it isn't a zone gate. However, the size of each 'zone' (system) is significantly larger than planetary systems in STO. Something that I think would be an improvement for STO is larger systems.
You can do that in a lot of Trek single-player games that exist. Bridge Commander isn't even that old and still has pretty good graphics by modern standards. It also portrays Star Trek ship combat much more accurately.
And if you're suggesting STO's ground gameplay is anything like Star Trek, well.... I don't recall Picard playing doctor when Beverly's a call away.
Eh...the graphics are far too dated for me. If there's one thing STO can do, it's look pretty. Bridge Commander's starship combat was impressive, but I enjoy STO's more tbh. It's a big part of the reason I'm here (ground combat is a big part of the reason why I'm not a lifer yet though).
Hey, I like being a hero! and doing things not related to combat as well. Something you can't exactly do in Bridge Commander
I can understand that you want a single player Trek experience. But really, why should I pay a monthly fee to play a single player game, that has the possibility of playing with a friend or two from time to time? Single player mentality does not work in an MMO.
Constant expansions. Unlike most single player games, an MMO kinda guarantees that you can play it infinitely and get new content. Sure, you don't get a new story every day (at least nowadays we get about one per week).
Mass Effect 2 is over. There are a few DLCs (which is awesome. At least I assume so, since I couldn't play them yet ). But there is nothing repeatable you can do between those. In a MMO, you can create a character, run through (hopefully interesting) storylines, level up, and keep playing your character. It allows to constantly play in some manner. In ME2, between new DLCs, all I can hope for is to repeat old content with a lot of cut scenes and dialogues that I already known and will get tedious. In an MMO, I can have storylines and "meaningless" pew pew, so to speak, in one content. It allows me to keep playing in some way all the time. It's a special mix that for some reason (maybe good business reasons?) non-MMOs don't offer.
Of course, I also like the "real" MM components, like PvP or Fleet Actions. But even without them, I see some worth in this.
Constant expansions. Unlike most single player games, an MMO kinda guarantees that you can play it infinitely and get new content. Sure, you don't get a new story every day (at least nowadays we get about one per week).
Mass Effect 2 is over. There are a few DLCs (which is awesome. At least I assume so, since I couldn't play them yet ). But there is nothing repeatable you can do between those. In a MMO, you can create a character, run through (hopefully interesting) storylines, level up, and keep playing your character. It allows to constantly play in some manner. In ME2, between new DLCs, all I can hope for is to repeat old content with a lot of cut scenes and dialogues that I already known and will get tedious. In an MMO, I can have storylines and "meaningless" pew pew, so to speak, in one content. It allows me to keep playing in some way all the time. It's a special mix that for some reason (maybe good business reasons?) non-MMOs don't offer.
Of course, I also like the "real" MM components, like PvP or Fleet Actions. But even without them, I see some worth in this.
Indeed. Not the mention the Foundry will provide tons of content.
Indeed. Not the mention the Foundry will provide tons of content.
I'm not pinning my hopes on Foundry quite yet. It depends on how much functionality and flexibility the tools allow, and the quality of content players can put out. You're going to have to choke through a lot of garbage to find the good ones.
I really hope there's some sort of pre-screening process to at least get the vulgar or downright obscene stuff weeded out. And if you don't think players will find amusment in making that kind of stuff to put out...umm...well...look at some of the more...creative Spore creations.
Constant expansions. Unlike most single player games, an MMO kinda guarantees that you can play it infinitely and get new content. Sure, you don't get a new story every day (at least nowadays we get about one per week).
Mass Effect 2 is over. There are a few DLCs (which is awesome. At least I assume so, since I couldn't play them yet ). But there is nothing repeatable you can do between those. In a MMO, you can create a character, run through (hopefully interesting) storylines, level up, and keep playing your character. It allows to constantly play in some manner. In ME2, between new DLCs, all I can hope for is to repeat old content with a lot of cut scenes and dialogues that I already known and will get tedious. In an MMO, I can have storylines and "meaningless" pew pew, so to speak, in one content. It allows me to keep playing in some way all the time. It's a special mix that for some reason (maybe good business reasons?) non-MMOs don't offer.
Of course, I also like the "real" MM components, like PvP or Fleet Actions. But even without them, I see some worth in this.
I don't understand your argument.
Capacity to make multiple characters- STO: check, ME2: check, and you can make an unlimited number
Capacity to have different classes- STO: check, ME2: check, and you have more variety
Capacity to differentiate your characters through skills- STO: check, ME2: check
Missions that exist and are the same every playthrough- STO: check, ME2: check
Periodically released new content- STO: check, ME2: check
Periodically released expansions- STO: probably, ME2: effectively sequels (ME, ME2, ME3)
From a single-player perspective STO doesn't have much going for it in comparison to ME. Pay-wise, the only difference is that you pay $15/month for STO, and for ME2 you buy the DLCs you want, when you want. That makes ME2 significantly more cost effective.
Additionally, as a single player game, ME2 truly makes you the hero. You make life and death decisions. You make choices that affect gameplay far into the future. The story revolves around you. An MMO can never truly have a story revolve around you because that same story is revolving around every other player also.
So far I've taken 7 characters through ME1 and imported them and played them through ME2. I have an 8th finished in ME1 and will soon finish the 9th. I'm already planning my 10th. Then I'll run those three characters through ME2 and all the DLC I've purchased.
And every one of those 10 characters will have a unique combination of personality, class, background, and key decisions. That's something that's effectively impossible to achieve in STO without having to significantly augment the game with one's own imagination. And there's no problem with that. But if I wanted to use my imagination that much I'd have saved myself the subscription fee, sat in bed, and thought the whole thing up in my mind.
I'm not pinning my hopes on Foundry quite yet. It depends on how much functionality and flexibility the tools allow, and the quality of content players can put out. You're going to have to choke through a lot of garbage to find the good ones.
I really hope there's some sort of pre-screening process to at least get the vulgar or downright obscene stuff weeded out. And if you don't think players will find amusment in making that kind of stuff to put out...umm...well...look at some of the more...creative Spore creations.
Oh I understand, have you tried reading any sort of Star Trek FF? I know what's out there. But I am confident that usage of resources like the UGC wiki will allow me to sort through the ****.
Oh I understand, have you tried reading any sort of Star Trek FF? I know what's out there. But I am confident that usage of resources like the UGC wiki will allow me to sort through the ****.
I have a book with a lot of FF in it somewhere, not read it in awhile. Some of it is good, some cannot be unread no matter how much I want to pour bleach on my brain to try.
There are two things I like with games.
- Just enjoying the gameplay
- Being part of a story.
Most single player games intimately tie both together. Every element of gameplay is tied to the story. If the story ends, so does gameplay.
MMOs don't end. Story and gameplay are often more losely coupled. Sector Defense or Exporation Missions are small elements of content that you can do over and over again. You can get back to the same gameplay part again.
In ME, once you are past the story content involving, say, the Blue Sun, you can't fight them again. You have to create an alt, get at the same point and paly through the content again.
MMOs typically give you "faster" access to this. You don't have to level an alt and advance through a lot of story and fight countless of other stuff. You can do it now.
Of course, STO isn't "perfect" in that regard. Trying to fight Cardassians again as Vice Admiral is barely possible. Ground combat (if I was interested in it) isn't that easily repeated. But if I want to fight Breen today, I can just do the Daily, I don't have to first travel to the past and restore the Klingon genome and get tricked by an Undine to kill innocent Romulan scientists before I can take a mission involving the Breen.
Mass Effect 2 might be "perfect" if you could fly to the different planets again and get into some kind of random encounter (generated by a Genesis like system).
STO would be perfect if could make decisions like in ME2 that affect the outcome of the game and influence further missions.
TIE FIghter would have been perfect if it could generate new random missions.
honestly, even the comparsion is a disgrace for eve.
Eve is a full blown game. With a depth and PvP that cant be meassured in scores to 10 as long as STO is measured in anything above 0.9.
Then again i play both games. Its simple
Sto is a neat little arcarde game for the time you just have/want to play up to an hour.
Eve is complex and very demanding, and sometimes i just dont feel like calculating fuel for the drive, getting support (being a supercapital solo play is suidicial) and wait with 300 other people on themspeak for a hotdrop.
So 2 games, 2 wastly different goals if you ask me.
Sto will never be a real mmo, its just neat arcard game with advanced chat.
honestly, even the comparsion is a disgrace for eve.
Eve is a full blown game. With a depth and PvP that cant be meassured in scores to 10 as long as STO is measured in anything above 0.9.
Then again i play both games. Its simple
Sto is a neat little arcarde game for the time you just have/want to play up to an hour.
Eve is complex and very demanding, and sometimes i just dont feel like calculating fuel for the drive, getting support (being a supercapital solo play is suidicial) and wait with 300 other people on themspeak for a hotdrop.
So 2 games, 2 wastly different goals if you ask me.
Sto will never be a real mmo, its just neat arcard game with advanced chat.
Regardless of which game is better, or whether the comparison is valid or not, that article is entirely and irredeemably awful. It's badly written, badly thought out and the scope is clearly beyond the capability of the writer to communicate his idea. It's embarrassing tbh.
The article is pretty bad, and the author says right up front that space games aren't his thing anyway. Meh.
EVE is a great game, but it is not very reasonable to compare it to STO...they are just different. (And I've played a hell of a lot more than 57 minutes of both!)
I dunno about him but for me it is one of the biggest loose ends in TOS. the other being The First Federation. I'm with Stahl on this one. I want to see an Arc about V'Ger.
honestly, even the comparsion is a disgrace for eve.
Eve is a full blown game. With a depth and PvP that cant be meassured in scores to 10 as long as STO is measured in anything above 0.9.
Then again i play both games. Its simple
Sto is a neat little arcarde game for the time you just have/want to play up to an hour.
Eve is complex and very demanding, and sometimes i just dont feel like calculating fuel for the drive, getting support (being a supercapital solo play is suidicial) and wait with 300 other people on themspeak for a hotdrop.
So 2 games, 2 wastly different goals if you ask me.
Sto will never be a real mmo, its just neat arcade game with advanced chat.
Regardless of which game is better, or whether the comparison is valid or not, that article is entirely and irredeemably awful. It's badly written, badly thought out and the scope is clearly beyond the capability of the writer to communicate his idea. It's embarrassing tbh.
I agree,
Then again every other reviewing site etc.. gave STO a bad score and review.
Any one who even remembers what THAC0 is would cringe if they had to use that system again
Actually, I cringe at 4th edition and how it caters to the CCG and MMO crowd - for that's what the game is now. It's hardly a faster paced game since all the skills now are situational, so you have to pay careful attention to where all the characters and monsters are in relation to each other, as well as obstacles, and that means playing at a table with lots of expensive miniatures, elaborate tile sets, all of which WoTC conveniently sells for exhorbitant prices. They turned D&D into a strategic board game with MMO/CCG rules.
Comments
Now let's not go comparing regular ol' Star Trek novels to the SHATNERVERSE!
No idea what Vendetta is, so can't very well compare the two.
Eh. It's Starfleet Command + GuildWars with phasers. It doesn't really offer up anything new.
it offers a place for some of us to live our dreams of being starship Captains...good enough for me
Okay okay okay.... SHATNERVERSE is my 11th toe. Other novels are my 12th toe. Still... both pretty irrelevant to me.
Still...the 12th toe is pretty relevant to Star Trek Online. (except those Destiny novels)
You can do that in a lot of Trek single-player games that exist. Bridge Commander isn't even that old and still has pretty good graphics by modern standards. It also portrays Star Trek ship combat much more accurately.
And if you're suggesting STO's ground gameplay is anything like Star Trek, well.... I don't recall Picard playing doctor when Beverly's a call away.
I actually kind of enjoyed Ashes of Eden. Does that make me bad?
Well.. that's not surprising. We are talking a game that has ~150-~250 year old ships flying right alongside brand spanking new ships, being as good or better.
The problem with that is if you watch the shows carefully, you notice that they often have massive distances to travel and while doing that travel other 'sub plots' were produced (the writers DID make spastic attempts at showing the galaxy as a huge place with travel times that could be weeks or more in duration).
One of the first things I noticed when I came into this game was that the 'universe' was significantly smaller than I expected from the IP. Not that I am complaining but I expected a significantly larger setting of game play. I was disappointed to find such a small galaxy. However that being said I am also glad to see that additional areas are being worked on (Deferi as an example) and that DStahl has hinted at the possibility of removing the sector warps and making the game a little more open seeming.
The difference between EVE and STO in travel really isn't as significant as some like to think. The 'claim' that eve is zoneless is not true at all. Each jump gate is a path to another zone. They just make it sound like it isn't a zone gate. However, the size of each 'zone' (system) is significantly larger than planetary systems in STO. Something that I think would be an improvement for STO is larger systems.
Eh...the graphics are far too dated for me. If there's one thing STO can do, it's look pretty. Bridge Commander's starship combat was impressive, but I enjoy STO's more tbh. It's a big part of the reason I'm here (ground combat is a big part of the reason why I'm not a lifer yet though).
Hey, I like being a hero! and doing things not related to combat as well. Something you can't exactly do in Bridge Commander
Constant expansions. Unlike most single player games, an MMO kinda guarantees that you can play it infinitely and get new content. Sure, you don't get a new story every day (at least nowadays we get about one per week).
Mass Effect 2 is over. There are a few DLCs (which is awesome. At least I assume so, since I couldn't play them yet
Of course, I also like the "real" MM components, like PvP or Fleet Actions. But even without them, I see some worth in this.
Indeed. Not the mention the Foundry will provide tons of content.
I'm not pinning my hopes on Foundry quite yet. It depends on how much functionality and flexibility the tools allow, and the quality of content players can put out. You're going to have to choke through a lot of garbage to find the good ones.
I really hope there's some sort of pre-screening process to at least get the vulgar or downright obscene stuff weeded out. And if you don't think players will find amusment in making that kind of stuff to put out...umm...well...look at some of the more...creative Spore creations.
I don't understand your argument.
Capacity to make multiple characters- STO: check, ME2: check, and you can make an unlimited number
Capacity to have different classes- STO: check, ME2: check, and you have more variety
Capacity to differentiate your characters through skills- STO: check, ME2: check
Missions that exist and are the same every playthrough- STO: check, ME2: check
Periodically released new content- STO: check, ME2: check
Periodically released expansions- STO: probably, ME2: effectively sequels (ME, ME2, ME3)
From a single-player perspective STO doesn't have much going for it in comparison to ME. Pay-wise, the only difference is that you pay $15/month for STO, and for ME2 you buy the DLCs you want, when you want. That makes ME2 significantly more cost effective.
Additionally, as a single player game, ME2 truly makes you the hero. You make life and death decisions. You make choices that affect gameplay far into the future. The story revolves around you. An MMO can never truly have a story revolve around you because that same story is revolving around every other player also.
So far I've taken 7 characters through ME1 and imported them and played them through ME2. I have an 8th finished in ME1 and will soon finish the 9th. I'm already planning my 10th. Then I'll run those three characters through ME2 and all the DLC I've purchased.
And every one of those 10 characters will have a unique combination of personality, class, background, and key decisions. That's something that's effectively impossible to achieve in STO without having to significantly augment the game with one's own imagination. And there's no problem with that. But if I wanted to use my imagination that much I'd have saved myself the subscription fee, sat in bed, and thought the whole thing up in my mind.
Oh I understand, have you tried reading any sort of Star Trek FF? I know what's out there. But I am confident that usage of resources like the UGC wiki will allow me to sort through the ****.
I have a book with a lot of FF in it somewhere, not read it in awhile. Some of it is good, some cannot be unread no matter how much I want to pour bleach on my brain to try.
- Just enjoying the gameplay
- Being part of a story.
Most single player games intimately tie both together. Every element of gameplay is tied to the story. If the story ends, so does gameplay.
MMOs don't end. Story and gameplay are often more losely coupled. Sector Defense or Exporation Missions are small elements of content that you can do over and over again. You can get back to the same gameplay part again.
In ME, once you are past the story content involving, say, the Blue Sun, you can't fight them again. You have to create an alt, get at the same point and paly through the content again.
MMOs typically give you "faster" access to this. You don't have to level an alt and advance through a lot of story and fight countless of other stuff. You can do it now.
Of course, STO isn't "perfect" in that regard. Trying to fight Cardassians again as Vice Admiral is barely possible. Ground combat (if I was interested in it) isn't that easily repeated. But if I want to fight Breen today, I can just do the Daily, I don't have to first travel to the past and restore the Klingon genome and get tricked by an Undine to kill innocent Romulan scientists before I can take a mission involving the Breen.
Mass Effect 2 might be "perfect" if you could fly to the different planets again and get into some kind of random encounter (generated by a Genesis like system).
STO would be perfect if could make decisions like in ME2 that affect the outcome of the game and influence further missions.
TIE FIghter would have been perfect if it could generate new random missions.
Eve is a full blown game. With a depth and PvP that cant be meassured in scores to 10 as long as STO is measured in anything above 0.9.
Then again i play both games. Its simple
Sto is a neat little arcarde game for the time you just have/want to play up to an hour.
Eve is complex and very demanding, and sometimes i just dont feel like calculating fuel for the drive, getting support (being a supercapital solo play is suidicial) and wait with 300 other people on themspeak for a hotdrop.
So 2 games, 2 wastly different goals if you ask me.
Sto will never be a real mmo, its just neat arcard game with advanced chat.
Fascinating...and yet you are a lifer. pity.
He probably believed 'it gets better', too.
honestly sto is god for what it is.
But i honestly stoped dreaming of seeing it develop into a full blown mmo.
I certainly don't want to see it come anywhere near EVE, except maybe in expansion of places to go. Spreadsheets in space, do not want.
Quoted for truth.
EVE is a great game, but it is not very reasonable to compare it to STO...they are just different. (And I've played a hell of a lot more than 57 minutes of both!)
I dunno about him but for me it is one of the biggest loose ends in TOS. the other being The First Federation. I'm with Stahl on this one. I want to see an Arc about V'Ger.
This comment totally sums it up.
I agree,
Then again every other reviewing site etc.. gave STO a bad score and review.
So he's not alone, just poor at his job.
Actually, I cringe at 4th edition and how it caters to the CCG and MMO crowd - for that's what the game is now. It's hardly a faster paced game since all the skills now are situational, so you have to pay careful attention to where all the characters and monsters are in relation to each other, as well as obstacles, and that means playing at a table with lots of expensive miniatures, elaborate tile sets, all of which WoTC conveniently sells for exhorbitant prices. They turned D&D into a strategic board game with MMO/CCG rules.
I say, Long Live THAC0!
But I digress ...