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C-Store Request - Constitution Class Refit
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Cryptic -
I would like to request the addition of a T4 or T5 Constitution Class Refit starship. I love the T2 version, but from everything I've been told and everything I've seen just in using a T5 Excelsior, the T2 version won't stand up past Captain.
Being one of the most iconic ships in Trek (second only to the TOS Constitution Class) it seems a logical step to give the fans the opportunity to have this iconic ship for more than just the few days spent at Lieutentant Commander.
Perhaps this could be rolled in as an alternate skin for the "In Development" TOS Connie Retrofit ship?
Thank you for your time.
CaptMattSchwab
I would like to request the addition of a T4 or T5 Constitution Class Refit starship. I love the T2 version, but from everything I've been told and everything I've seen just in using a T5 Excelsior, the T2 version won't stand up past Captain.
Being one of the most iconic ships in Trek (second only to the TOS Constitution Class) it seems a logical step to give the fans the opportunity to have this iconic ship for more than just the few days spent at Lieutentant Commander.
Perhaps this could be rolled in as an alternate skin for the "In Development" TOS Connie Retrofit ship?
Thank you for your time.
CaptMattSchwab
Post edited by Unknown User on
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I would like this as well, I would also love it if they added the Excalibur skin as well, tbh, it's one of the few Cryptic designs I like, and frankly because it's a new more modern design, I could see it as a T5 ship.
Pretty Please Cryptic !
Of course, should the recently announced TOS-Connie-Refit and/or the NX hit Tier 5, then this should go for any ship. But for the time being I'm still hoping that "ancient" refits would be limited to mid tier to preserve some semblance of visual consistency. Just my opinion.
I think it would make the most sense if Cryptic provided an alternate skin to a T5 TOS Connie that gave you the TMP / Wrath of Khan skin as an option.
Similar to what they did with the Excelsior Search For Spock / Generations Enterprise-B ship.
I'd even be ok with a T4 version of the TOS / TWOK Connies, which would still make it useful for those who want to adventure at Vice Admiral in an iconic ship, while slightly downgrading the ship to maintain PvP balance. Plus, if a Tier 6 ever came to be, then there would be zero concern from the PvP crowd about a TOS Connie matching up with them, similar to how the Galaxy Dreadnought is a thing of the past in current PvP.
"Fitting with new tech", combined with hulls as old as these, will require ripping the entire ship apart and building it anew with up-to-date armor, weapons, generators, deflector, controls, computer, engines ... you'd even need to swap out the wiring. Aside from the sheer in-universe idiocy of Starfleet Command ordering such a refit when they could as well just commission an entirely new class in the same time (this is what the Excalibur was for, remember?), the resulting ship will not look the same. Think TOS-Connie -> Movie-Constitution. Actually, the next logical evolutionary step is the Excalibur. She just is on the wrong tier (imo), as she should be better than her predecessor.
I personally just don't like the idea of ancient ships blowing up state-of-the-art vessels 3-5 times their size. I don't think it looks good in terms of consistency and catching the feel of the show. But as I said before, if the TOS-Refit or the NX end up in Tier 5, then all this does not matter anyways and I'll just have to adapt. So let's see what time brings.
Agreed. I'd rather see these older designs in lower tiers, like they currently are. I'm somewhat fine with the Excelsior as a T5 ship, mostly because of the Lakota. I wouldn't be adverse to seeing a Constitution as a T4 or (heaven forbid) a sub-par T5, but they would have to be the movie refits. It's bad enough seeing the old-school Connie flying around as a T1 ship, but seeing it as a T5 would certainly blow my mind (immersion-wise).
My reasoning for the above: the Constitution-class has already been through a refit (from TMP on through STVI). ALL Constitution-class ships that were still in service at that time were refit to look like the Enterprise in the movies. Not to mention that the Enterprise-A was the last Connie in service, and even it was being mothballed at the end of Undiscovered Country.
Would I leave the game if I see a T5 Connie or an NX-Class higher than T1? Nope. Would others? I've seen threats being posted all over the place. While it IS immersion-breaking, as long as it's the movie refit and NOT the series version, I can live with it.
Actually the TOS version is already in the "In Development" list on the last Engineering Report.
The purpose of this thread is to get a TMP / TWOK version in T4 or T5, or to add an alternate skin to the already planned T5 TOS Connie that reflects the current T2 Connie Refit.
Essentially it would work the same as it did for the Excelsior. You'd be able to choose between TOS Connie and TWOK Connie Refit in the ship customization screen, as well as having the option of the Excalibur and Vesper skins.
That's something that I could conceivably wrap my mind around. It's the proposed TOS Connie (the one with the rounded nacelles from the series) that would make my head explode if I ever saw it beyond what we have now.
Uh no. Both ships were holding back. In a fight like that a smaller more mobile ship wins.
Old design new tech argument is dumb. The Excelsior had a long life and was able to be refit But why would you have the TOS connie here now when most if not all were refit to be the TMP Connie. The NX-01 as a refit T5 is stupid.
Not to mention that there could be compatibility issues. Some hulls just aren't made to accept 25th-century technology. This would be especially true for the NX-class, who only started using the phaser technology (and true shields, too, I believe) towards the end of the series. It had phase cannons and polarized hull plating that served as its main defenses for most of its life. I seriously doubt that a 250-year old (or so) design can handle the stress of what we are using now. Even a Constitution-class would probably be pushing the boundaries of believability based on what was used then and what it being used now. At least we know that the Excelsior-class can equip this technology with relative ease (as shown in TNG and DS9).
Again, I also point to the fact that the Constitution and NX classes are both retired ships and have been for a long time. It's not like we're playing Battlestar Galactica where we can take a museum ship and have it fight as the main battleship in the middle of an intense war.
Ultimately, it comes down to:
This is a game. A game that Cryptic wants to appeal to the widest possible range of fans. In order to draw in the ENT / TOS / TMP fans, they will bring in the NX Class, the TOS Connie and the TMP / TWOK Connie at an upper level, be it Tier 4 or Tier 5. They will do this because they know that:
1) Tier 1 and Tier 2 ships don't work well enough at the upper levels.
and
2) People spend the majority of their game life at the upper levels.
Really it's why all the ships should have T5 equivalents. Because it's a game and people should have some choices about the ships they fly, not be forced into a ship they don't like.
We're not talking about finding the lowest common denominator here. We already have that. It's about affecting everyone's gameplay experience by adding something for a small segment of the playerbase that doesn't quite belong there. Cryptic should know this as well.
As for the TOS-Connie: Is it actually official that it's going to be T5? I have yet to see any official statement about this.
Bottom line: The game was never meant to be about everything Star Trek, else it would not have a single solid era, with a storyline embedded firmly in the 25th century. I also dispute the claim that an NX or a TOS-Connie will draw in the fans of the respective shows. They're already here. And those who are not still won't be satisfied with just the ship when everything else around them feels "out of place".
You will always have someone who isn't satisfied with the selection he is presented. The only question is: Where do you draw the line?
Maybe that's just my opinion, but in games such as these, people should play with each other - and not retreat into their own little world because everyone has his or her own vision of how the game should look like.
While it's not 100% official (because it's not in testing yet) it is in the "In Development" category of the September 15th Engineering Report.
And since it specifically says "T5 TOS Connie" that would indicate to me that it is coming.
But we seem to be heading down the same path as the NX-01 debates, and that isn't what this thread was supposed to be about. It's supposed to be about giving us the option on the T5 TOS Connie to use the TWOK Enterprise skin, or creating a T5 TWOK Enterprise.
But as I stated before in this thread, I'd even be fine if the TOS Connie / TWOK Connie came to the C-Store in a T4 (bringing it on par with Galaxy-X) so it could still be a worthwhile ship at upper levels, but you wouldn't see them being 100% competitive with T5's which would then hopeful make the detractors a little more accepting.
That is the refit or moive version not the one form the 1966/7 TV show.
If it should end up being a T5 ship, then of course there is no reason not to have the movie Constitution or the NX there as well, given that it won't make much of a difference.
And I apologize for the debate, but you have to see it is a tricky subject. As demonstrated in the infamous NX-thread, it's not just a few people who are for or against the implementation of such features - and naturally both parties should be able to voice their opinion wherever it is discussed, lest we may end up with a false impression. Now that this is done I shall let it rest.
Hello,
I just read this. Don't know if anyone else has responded. It should be noted that the Defiant was also pulling punches, with neither ship desiring to create massive casualties or destruction of the opposing ship.
The fact that a refit Cruiser was about evenly matched with an escort that was a third of its size says just about everything you need to know about this incident. I'm sure the Lakota can still act as a great explorer, but in the field of combat, it was past its prime and no longer suitable for the front lines. Even with the latest technology on tap, it was *just* able to hold its own against a much smaller vessel.
You are correct, they don't say T5 specifically. For the life of me, I thought they did.
But, I think the reason I thought that is because they call it a TOS Connie Refit and it makes me think they will be producing a "Refit" akin to the Galaxy, Intrepid and Defiant Refits.
So it could easily be a T5, or they could make it a T4 like the Galaxy-X.
And like I said, T4 would be fine. Still makes it a versatile ship for end game PvE and such without upsetting end game PvP balance.
And there is no need to apologize for the debate. I have no problem with debate, as long as it stays civil and the debate is logical. And by everything I've seen Valias, your arguments on both issues (TOS Connie and NX) are well reasoned and you keep things civil. So again, no need to apologize for that.