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Lack of PvE is killing the draw of the KDF faction.

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Solarfox wrote:
    Is the KDFAssistance chan, very active? If there's at least some social interaction going I'd be more willing to endure some of the grind.
    It tends to be more active during the weekends than otherwise. It's been unusually quiet these past couple of nights, though...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    The opinions in the opening two posts of this thread are both correct, and incorrect.

    PvP need to be more "wargame" like
    needed: Dynamic territorial control..Fighting over and keeping star system with a benifit to the empire or the federation for having them.

    Said territorial combat should include both space and ground combat. One players have enguaged in territorial combat they should be locked in untill the battle for a star system is either won or lost. No fleeing intill the battle is clearly won or lost. And by all means there should be some rather nice rewards. Also..Sadi combat should be "Hardcore" difficulty.. Characters, and ships get torn up.. Rapair becomes an improtant part of the gameso stockpile repair items for both characters and ships.
    Ground battles should involve away team members and not just the player character. I feel this is very important. ARena combat is all well and good, but doesn't make a whole lot of sense in a Trek setting. Your a starship captain.. you have a crew.. Klingon ships are especially well known for carrying a large ground combat contingents aboard ships in the Battlecruiser and larger class. In fact by lore MOST of the large crews on Klingon battle cruisers are marines/ground combat personael, not actuall ships crew.

    Cryptic is working on actuall territorial combat. We'll have to see what in has and doesn't have. As long as it doesn't have the typical for MMO low levels cant even hurt high levels I'll be happy. This is a SciFi game not high fantasy so a not toward the real world is in order.

    I'd like to see the level requirement for equipment go away. Level should determine the qualityof rewards but a Batleth is a Batleth, and a disruper etc iswhat they are. Higher marks of a weapon are simply improved versions. The lowly Lt6 Klingon may not have the special abilities of a Lt General but this hand weapon can STILL kill you.

    PvE content is still needed, including noncombat missions (per say) for the Klingons. The IKV Gorkon series of novels point at differnt ways of doing things. A warrior society such as the klingons would not be adverse to actuall arena type contests.

    More hand to hand weapon types. SOmetimes energy based weapons might be inhibited from working due to an x factor in a mission, say, a planetary enrgy dampaning field the prevents energy based weapons fromworking, the its lance/batleth/dagger time..

    Klingon concepts of honor might even consider using precluse using energy based weapons when fighting a non technic race.

    I'd like to see an honor stat that revolves around compleating missions with the use of minimal force as opposed to using overwhelming force. After all, the Klingons don't see them selves as the "Bad Guys" but they do not have the same view point at the federation and would not do things the same way.

    Not everyone that plays Klingon though is going to be interested in PvP content and they need to be catered to as much as everyone else. Solets puch also for the PvE content for those players. Considering that

    My experiences playing the SFC series point strongly to the very simple and very real fact that PvP only gaming is seriously limiting and over time eventually results in a shrinking player base.

    We players need to NOT be selfish in our desires for this game or it won't stay around. This game like all other MMO titles depends on cash flow. There Is No Free Lunch! Some ones got to pay for it, and thats us. The potential player base the STO is unimaginably huge, and international in scope, but so far the game has only barely scratched the surface of whats possible. Limiting our selves "this way or the highway" is in the long run self defeating and will kill the game. WOuldn't it beterrible if a year from now Cryptic had to double its staff to keep up with the demand for content because they've passed a 2 or 3 millions active subscriber mark? So lets not set limits on what should or should not be.
    If we do, the chances of that happening rapidly approch zero.

    PvE we need more of, and PvP needs to become a lot more interesting, but the true reality of the game AND the market is PvE co-operative play is going to drive sales and provide subscriptions. The more folk playing, the more they can put into the game. Thats why I've pushed hard for more Klingon PvE content. Once we have a growing, dynamic Klingon player base then PvP starts kicking in and becoming far more interesting just because there are more people to do it.

    I also play the Korean MMO Aion. NCSoft recently had to scale back a particular feature of PvP in the game because it was being exploited and abused to the point the victems of it ingame were cancelling accounts. SO, NCSoft was faced with a choice. Either "Stay true to the vision" and deal with a shrinking player base and decreased revenues or deal with the issue. Wisely they chose to deal with the issue and the numbers of subscribers to the game is once again increasing instead of decreasing.

    If you have "sides" in a MMO then they need to be treated eaqually by a developer or you end up shooting yourself in the bank account. Due to some frankly BAD decisions made before release the Klingon factions is now stuck in a perpetual state of catch up. Hopefully Cryptic has learned the lesson they needed to learn. I have no doubt that development on a third faction is proceeding on a back burner. But be sure of this. Cryptic is learning what its going to have have availible for that third faction when it finally does appear. It will almost have to be the Romulans, and there will need to be a lotof PvEcontent for them on top of PvP v feds, and V Klingons.. and Rom V Rom. But beforethey can even do that they're goingto haveto go over everything thats ever been done about the Romulans and fill in the blanks. And there may very well bemore Romulan lore out thegate then theres ever been for the Klingons. The Romulans showed up very regularly in ST:TNG, so there is a considerable amount of lore to draw on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    ^^^^^^^^^^ Well spoken and Thought provoking, post ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    The good news is we'll be getting some new PvE content sometime soonish... Gozer is working on opening a sector to Klingons and making it so all the patrol missions will be playable by both sides.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Great post above, I read through it and felt I should comment, but have nothing particularly to add. Sums thigns up quite well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Solarfox wrote:
    The good news is we'll be getting some new PvE content sometime soonish... Gozer is working on opening a sector to Klingons and making it so all the patrol missions will be playable by both sides.

    Not to mention if the sector they're opening up is a success, they'll consider opening up more of the galaxy to us.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    So lets all be positive about it - YAY!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    So lets all be positive about it - YAY!

    Its hard to stay positive when the feds constantly call for our nerfing of this, that, the other or just want what the KDF has because "they don't like the Klingons and don't want to play them" - but still desire their our toys.


    I'm happy we're getting some attention, but skeptical.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Feds have the unending problem that they fight PvP against the Klingons and often lose. This leads them to conclude that there is something inherently wrong and fundamentally overpowered about Klingons.

    What they routinely fail to realise is that a Klingon Lt Gen had to do an awful lot more work to get there than his federation counterpart. He probably has done enormously more PvP to achieve that status. He also probably has a ship specifically designed for PvP and has been flying that ship for considerably longer. In all likelyhood he is also probably levelling his second character and already has a high level Fed. He knows your class very well.

    If you grind your missions out and plop around healing yourself out of danger and waiting for PvE targets to die then fighting a PvP rigged ship with dps which is eormous compared to what NPCs do, this must be quite a shock.

    They also don't realise we are a tiny community and we, to a much greater extent know each other. Not just the people we fleet with, but we know the names of most of the KDF players who PvP in our timezone because we have faught alonside them time after time. Our PuGs are not quite so random.

    Feds need to learn to accept that they are often beaten by players who are conserably more experienced at PvP than they are - nothing more. Good fed teams beat me all the time. PuGs commonly get slaughtered.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    lol..the OP is preaching to the choir. Those of us who have been playing for months have already covered all this...many many times.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    lol..the OP is preaching to the choir. Those of us who have been playing for months have already covered all this...many many times.

    Took you 16 days to come up with this?

    WoW....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    lol..the OP is preaching to the choir. Those of us who have been playing for months have already covered all this...many many times.

    Its not uncommon to revisit old sermons to continue to press a point home and hope that those addressed are aware of the issue.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Roach wrote: »
    Its not uncommon to revisit old sermons to continue to press a point home and hope that those addressed are aware of the issue.

    Yep, sometimes it takes a LONG time until something is officially noticed.
    Here is an example:

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=2873993#post2873993

    It was fairly well know from the beginning that scanning did not work, but it took a while, and more than one post about it, until it was said that something was going to be done about it.

    And no I'm not pointing fingers, it's just an example.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Roach wrote: »
    Its not uncommon to revisit old sermons to continue to press a point home and hope that those addressed are aware of the issue.

    Truth be told Roach’s avatar was bald when we started. He stated he would not shave or cut his hair until the Klingon Faction was fleshed out. From his avatar today you can see the results. 

    On a serious note though, I have to say the lack of content on the Klingon side is effecting both the PvP and PvE game play. I recently made a Klingon (again, have made em and deleted, blah blah, need more character slots)and I noticed that the PvP Queue was taking on average 30 mins to get a game going. In some cases I would get a pop up waiting for others to join only to have it drop back in to the waiting queue as not enough players engaged. There seems to be a lack of interest in PvP on the lower level Teirs. This leaves new Klingon players only a PvE option to level, which on the the KDF side is well severely lacking and I bet leads to lose of interest.

    I know, kicking the dead horse.

    **Edit for bad spelling, stupid spell check. mumble, mumble
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    If nothing else reducing the size of Klingon PvE lame ecoploration missions might help. they take so much longer to complete - what with you having to scan through green mists/ inpenetrable fogs etc for electronic devices that you could scan from space, but have to track by eye on the ground.

    I stopped botehring to queue whilst exploring because even though the wait is long, it rarely coincided with the completion of a mission.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Sythian wrote: »
    This leaves new Klingon players only a PvE option to level, which on the the KDF side is well severely lacking and I bet leads to lose of interest.

    The weekly stuff helps some.

    I started a Klingon eng and am now Lt Cmdr 2 or 3, and only a mater of 25 or so skill points away from the next level.

    I was able to take part in 3 PvP matches over the weekend, and didn't have to wait too long. Not long enough to finish a Defend the Empire mission anyway.

    Of course now I'm a bit stuck... At the bottom end of the tier so PvP is rough, and the only thing to do is Defend or Explore... Both of which are kinda fun, but only for so long.

    I'm not sure if I could stand the grind to Commander or not. But there's more weekly stuff coming out so I can wait and do that, and see how far it takes me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    New ships , new pve , combat targs , kits to show on pc , KDF need everything..... time is running out! come on come on..... just 5 more missions would be okish for now , and loot drops please.

    Whys it take so long for a professional mmo maker to do...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Well, they have stated they wil be adding more things to the KDF side, but I don't listen to deadlines they give anymore since they have set and broken them on many occasions in the past 3 months. I pretty much HATE pvp content as you never know what you will come up against, or how many hours you will wait in a pvp queue. So, therefore I decided to level my 1st KDF toon almost entirely in PVE explores and Empire Defense missions. For the 1st 5 levels of your experience at a new rank (i.e.: capt1-capt5) the Empire Defense gives you a great deal of xp. The explore nebulae give you 100+ xp plus whatever combat xp you receive for doing anything, and as a result, I was able to level my KDF toon in 9 days to LTG.

    With that being said, I decided to roll a 2nd KDF toon and leveling her in concert with the release (or proposed release) of the new KDF ships (well, that didn't happen...what a surprise) so I leveled her to LTG in 8 days. I relied on Empire Defense, Nebulae, and now...the breen missions and repeatable daily for the breen. I figure that the weekly missions for the next series with the Devidians plus their daily and the deferi daily will make up for the lack of PVE content for the KDF....well, in the short run. In terms of leveling, they have made it much easier...but at least 1 day to make a KDF get to max level. With this series...after it is over, I think it would be possible to level in 7 days. So, PVE content could be more, but it is not killing the KDF in my eyes. What is killing the KDF is NO new ships, NO veteran rewards, NO common courtesy treatment by devs, and NOTHING to do at end-game...that last one is a problem shared by both feds and KDF...but who knows, maybe they WILL actually solve that one.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    As long as there are Klingons trying to turn our Glorious Empire into a Federation clone with requests like diplomacy, teaming with fed players and newer ships our Empire is at risk. If you want all these things then perhaps you should join the Federation. If you here because you wanted to play a klingon character then goto the C-store. This is a Warrior Empire ! We drink Bloodwine not Koolaid.
    I say give me an old Bird-of-Prey leaking plasma and a crew of true warriors. I will bring Glory to the Empire and death to our enemies .
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Alkeda wrote: »
    As long as there are Klingons trying to turn our Glorious Empire into a Federation clone with requests like diplomacy, teaming with fed players and newer ships our Empire is at risk. If you want all these things then perhaps you should join the Federation. If you here because you wanted to play a klingon character then goto the C-store. This is a Warrior Empire ! We drink Bloodwine not Koolaid.
    I say give me an old Bird-of-Prey leaking plasma and a crew of true warriors. I will bring Glory to the Empire and death to our enemies .

    You are aware that most of what we do have is - cut and pasted from the Federation. The new ships are badly needed and are different from the Federation, grouping with the Feds is also needed because Cryptic isn't the smartest developer on the block and screwed up bigtime.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Varrangian wrote: »
    We are never going to have a fully open PvP system. The reality is that no matter what systems Cryptic puts in that related to PvP they are always going to cater to the casual and mostly PvE player. So we have two choices be a PvP step-child faction who will never see meaningful PvP, or admit that we need some balance between PvP and PvE, so they can justify spending resources on us.

    For instance Dstahl has mentioned wanting to do some sort of territory control system - this system is never going to be purely PvP simply because any investment they make in said system has to give them enough return on that investment, and their player base is largely PvEers.

    Well said, I for one am not a fan of open PvP, its the main reason I didnt bother to play eve longer than 30 days.

    The only way open PvP works is the way EQ 1 did it, with pvp specific servers without the usual rules of conduct and increased exp rewards for playing on them. It gives people who like the concept a place to play and incentives to do so, namely quick leveling and bragging rights to being a top dog on a rutheless server where everyone is a target.

    That being said I would enjoy the klingon PvP experienc more if there WAS one, and not the one that has you waiting 30 minutes for a 5 minute run.

    Its clear to me just by the lower teir pvp queues that the concept of a purely pvp centered faction is not working. The KDF Needs more pve content, and I dot mean one mission chain, I mean enough to get most players within spitting distance of level 51 if they prefer not to PvP and increased pvp exp rewards for those who hate PvE on both sides, if a PvPer on the Fed side could level at the same pace as a PvE player could I bet dollars to donuts you would see packed queues. PvE Klingon content would also bolster the ranks of the KDF so there would be more people to play with on this side.

    I would bet money that the Romulan faction will have a fully implemented story line when it launches and PvE content, Its pretty obvious the klingons got letf of the cutting room floor to meet the deadline despite the protests to the opposite that they were ALWAYS designed to be PvP only
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Roach wrote: »
    The KDF being designed as a 90% pvp-centric faction is slowly killing the enjoyment of the faction for new players as they progress to the maximum rank of LG and find that there is nothing left to do but pvp.
    Without meaningful and storyline driven pve content the KDF faction quickly becomes boring to those who are not fans of the KDF to begin with or who are not avid fans of pvp combat in general.
    Those players whodo not like, find little pleasure or lack the skills to compete with more experienced pvp'ers
    will have little reason to stick with and enjoy any pvp-centric toons they may possess. This hurts the faction as a whole and does not increase the draw of said pvp-faction.

    Secondly, the lack of pve leads to the new and older fans of the KDF to specialize in iether one or the other of the pvp based choices that this faction has, space or ground. This leads to specific expendeture of skill points to maximize thier effectiveness in one of the two pvp arena formats and leads to a self-crippling efffectivenss in what little pve content that does exist.
    Specifically, if a KDF player wishes to compete at the level LG in space pvp then said KDF player will most likely never spend any points in the ground based skills and vice-versa a ground pvp player will have less points to spend in space based skills overall, thus making the less the prime effective in the later.

    Pvp-centric or monster play, and yes its really a polished version of monster play, is a self defeating design for any faction within the STO game.



    I agree with this completely. And to add to it, leveling at the lower levels by having to gring Exploration missions is a drag since there doesn't seem to be much call for low level PvP for Klingons.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Warguppy wrote: »
    I agree with this completely. And to add to it, leveling at the lower levels by having to gring Exploration missions is a drag since there doesn't seem to be much call for low level PvP for Klingons.

    Well, the upside of this is that if you have an upper-level KDF player and decide to make an alt...and you leveled some of the 1st player in PVP, then you have an advantage fighting people when you roll your new toon.
    Other than that, there is nothing really fun in leveling a klink. It is either grinding explores...or pvp...explores go faster and provide xp faster than pvp, but is boring, and well pvp...speaks for itself...Yeah...it sucks to lvl that way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    "the Kar'fi carrier sucks balls"

    LOL had to laughat that coment

    sadly kdf content is either rehashed (carrier mentioned, we the klingons use what works, so we recycled and alien carrier, from an acient enemy, was the dev's excuse for that, so why don't klingons use fed romulan or basically any other factions space ships they work, and are in plentifull supply) or poorly implemented the so called choice of hull materials where only a pod on a hull 'neck' changes, making it look worse than just the single choice we had, the new vorcha looks awfull, the K'tinga' retexture is broken the engine glowies are badly off set, (allmost in the next quadrant).

    all these great content for klingon faction claims (three klingon only faction story generated pve missions) Feds can get to admiral on story based missions and patrols

    Retention rate for all factions must be terrible, kdf must be terrible, new weekly missions are ok, but gone in 30 minutes, if your lucky,

    high end content needs to be there, and soon, I'm slowly grinding characters but once my current lot are admirals unless there is a big change, I can't see me subscribing past the new year.

    sorry I rambled off track, just thinking how horrible it woud be to add romulans before the klingons have a semi intresting way to advance
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