test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Lack of PvE is killing the draw of the KDF faction.
System
Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
The KDF being designed as a 90% pvp-centric faction is slowly killing the enjoyment of the faction for new players as they progress to the maximum rank of LG and find that there is nothing left to do but pvp.
Without meaningful and storyline driven pve content the KDF faction quickly becomes boring to those who are not fans of the KDF to begin with or who are not avid fans of pvp combat in general.
Those players whodo not like, find little pleasure or lack the skills to compete with more experienced pvp'ers
will have little reason to stick with and enjoy any pvp-centric toons they may possess. This hurts the faction as a whole and does not increase the draw of said pvp-faction.
Secondly, the lack of pve leads to the new and older fans of the KDF to specialize in iether one or the other of the pvp based choices that this faction has, space or ground. This leads to specific expendeture of skill points to maximize thier effectiveness in one of the two pvp arena formats and leads to a self-crippling efffectivenss in what little pve content that does exist.
Specifically, if a KDF player wishes to compete at the level LG in space pvp then said KDF player will most likely never spend any points in the ground based skills and vice-versa a ground pvp player will have less points to spend in space based skills overall, thus making the less the prime effective in the later.
Pvp-centric or monster play, and yes its really a polished version of monster play, is a self defeating design for any faction within the STO game.
Without meaningful and storyline driven pve content the KDF faction quickly becomes boring to those who are not fans of the KDF to begin with or who are not avid fans of pvp combat in general.
Those players whodo not like, find little pleasure or lack the skills to compete with more experienced pvp'ers
will have little reason to stick with and enjoy any pvp-centric toons they may possess. This hurts the faction as a whole and does not increase the draw of said pvp-faction.
Secondly, the lack of pve leads to the new and older fans of the KDF to specialize in iether one or the other of the pvp based choices that this faction has, space or ground. This leads to specific expendeture of skill points to maximize thier effectiveness in one of the two pvp arena formats and leads to a self-crippling efffectivenss in what little pve content that does exist.
Specifically, if a KDF player wishes to compete at the level LG in space pvp then said KDF player will most likely never spend any points in the ground based skills and vice-versa a ground pvp player will have less points to spend in space based skills overall, thus making the less the prime effective in the later.
Pvp-centric or monster play, and yes its really a polished version of monster play, is a self defeating design for any faction within the STO game.
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
I know a lot of Klingon players would be completely happy for no PVE content at all, as long as we had a properly implemented PVP system, which included OPEN PVP with rewards and gear and a dynamic territory that can change hands with possibility of fleet owned bases and sectors, which included PVP missions and such, bounty system you can put price on killing another player, trophy's. Proper player and fleet stat tracking. Access to equivalent gear through PVP missions. ETC ETC
The STF missions that are open to Klingons nobody plays or even bothers with, compared to the fed side where everyone on fed does STF missions.
Even now the only reason my fleet does Klingon PVE missions is to get more emblems, even then we try to speed run them as fast as possible and avoid ground combat completely.
Adding more AI missions is just meh, and those of us that still play klingon the majority of the time do not want it.
Reason Klingon are dying is not because a lack of pve content, back a lack of proper PVP content.
Outside of limited 5v5 arena matches, there is nothing for a Klingon to do except shoot crying feds in Kerat all day, and even that gets boring after awhile so they log off.
You want to expand the Klingon faction, give us open PVP, more pvp game types, some more ships, and some unique stuff that doesn't suck balls (KarFi Carrier) and stop giving our tech (cloak and unique bo slots) to feds.
For instance Dstahl has mentioned wanting to do some sort of territory control system - this system is never going to be purely PvP simply because any investment they make in said system has to give them enough return on that investment, and their player base is largely PvEers.
I agree the pvp in STO has become boring and stale because of the monotony of every day is the same as the day before. SO stale in fact that KDF pvp'ers rarely even attempt to win and most just attack the feds like ravenous beasts waiting for the match to be over so emblems can be collected. We have no heart anymore and its no wonder the feds no longer fear our wrath.
I agree with Roach. In the context of STO, KDF needs to have a well rounded PVE experience that allows players to heavily rely on it through the level up process.
It's just the way STO is designed. Any and every faction needs to be able to have PVE as meat and potatoes. And PVP as the side dish or desert.
Therein lies the rub. PVP in STO isn't deep, strong or popular enough to carry players from 1 to 51. It would be nice if it was like that. But they didn't design it that way back when they had the time and staff and resources to do so. This far after launch, after this many patches, I think their own track record speaks for itslef. That probably sounds way more harsh than it is intended. What I'm trying to say is ... any PVP improvements they make will be based off what's already there and be small steps moving forward from what they have. Since what they have isn't quite what you're talking about ... PVP's evolution probably isn't going to end up the way you, I or a bunch of others would have preferred it to be.
Since STO is what it is (which includes a lot of good stuff mind you) ... I think Roach makes a very compelling point that more PVE options are needed for the KDF as well as any other planned factions that get here in the future (Romulans, Cardassians, Horta even).
You can disagree all you want, but the fact of the matter is the only real difference between the faction that is played the most(Feds) and the faction that is played the least(KDF) is content. As it turns out, MMO players in general seem to like content for some strange reason, and will gravitate to the faction that has the most in a multi-faction game.
It's nice to keep you around, but if the Klingon faction remains as small as it is, there is little incentive to add stuff to the faction. Expanding PvP is a noble goal and would probably be good for the game and some of its population, but without a solid storyline to level up to, most players will still think that they are better off with their Federation characters.
The casual gamer is probably always the majority and a faction that won't draw him in can't thrive. Why create new KDF customziation options when only a tiny subset of overall players will benefit from it? Why develop new ships with new special abilties if only a tiny subset of overall players will benefit from it?
Actually klinks could have 10 times more content. But feds would still be more popular, in any multi race MMO the human race is always the most popular choice.
If klinks where actually playable on launch, Instead of having to make a fed then maybe things wouldnt be so bad, if most sto players are casual then which casual player is going to bother to level both and fed and a klink.
So you want to grow the KDF faction, then i think the new series missions are a great idea. However the fatal mistake the devs have made is that the missions are identical for both factions, except for a wall of text
You warp in from the same point, beam down to the same point, fight the same NPCS in the same order, and worst of all the same rewards are offered on completion.
You want to get PVE players into klingon faction then at least give them a reason to play KDF, change up the missions more so they still experience the same universal events, but they play out differently or different things happen.
(so the FEDs cracked the puzzle, maybe the Klingons didn't have the patience and just bombed the place from orbit) <---- SOMETHING LIKE THIS MAKE IT DIFFERENT
And make the rewards different from FED ones. So FEDs recruited a breen tac officer, maybe klingons salvaged a breen shield dampener, something like this. Make it DIFFERENT.
That way when people play the series missions as klingon they say "oh wow that was different and cool"
not "this feels exactly the same as on my fed toon, meh boring"
I still think the devs focus on KDF content should still be primarily PVP though, with new ships, skins, gear, maps, and some form of open PVP sector space with dynamic territory control and fleet owned bases with pvp missions.
They can keep the series missions as KDF PVE content for those that want it.
The key is to not making them identical to the FED ones and to make them give different rewards.
I'm not disagreeing. We do need more ships, gear and an expanded pvp format to play in if we are to be expected compete with the feds (and thier plethera of items) in pvp and be a primarily pvp based faction.
The primary focus for Cryptic is casual player - why do you think we have boxing match PvP as it is? It is something that a casual player can jump into complete their daily and jump out of back into PvE. Even if we get something with territory control there will (at least on the Fed side) be a PvE component to it as well. If we continue to get less and less of the PvE we will continue to have less and less of the casual player population.
All but a handful of players who supported the PvP-centric idea given to us at the 11th hour have left STO because of the state of PvP, but even when they were around we were in a large minority. Go to the main forum "STO Discussions" and see how many players say "I was always waiting for the Klingons to get PvE before playing them". The future of STO is not in PvP players and it never will be, if we are going to continue to exist as a faction we must bring these casual players in, and we will only do this with PvE.
I loved the new weekly missions, but having done them on 3 Feds and 4 Klinks so far I can tell you the Klink side needs a bit of a tweak storywise. We need more, not as much as the Feds, but still more of our own faction stories to draw people in. We need a house system to rival the Fed Diplomatic Corps. We need access to content in Roumlan and Cardassian space. We need at least one more Klingon only sector. These things, and really they are not asking that much comparatively. If the weeklies proved anything it is that PvE rules STO and if we are to have a future we need are own brand of PvE to give us a solid foundation.
They designed a two faction game that in reality isn't...when all the other MMO companies make sure that each side gets access to equal content.
Youre onto something here Cryptic, the creator of games that are not great but can be better. Great Slogan you have there :P
Remember, The KDF faction is not monster play.:p
YEP, this is what I was thinking.
I'll try to put it imto my own, simple, words:
At the current state of available content we can be happy to have a plus/minus zero change in population.
It's probably more in the the minus department right now.
Since those who are not discouraged by a PvP faction have already tried it and either just hang on or left/are leaving we're not going to get new people to play this faction right now.
Assuming PvP suddenly got better we might get those back that have already left, but new ones...only through PvE.
I agree - and I, along with many others, ahev posted elsewhere on this notion.
and yet there is not enough interest in re-allocating resources to allieviate the KDF issue, or so we have been told.
Yep - totally correct. I comepletely agree.
10. If a sign says 'buy one, get one free' only get the free one
9. Always give the pizza guy bad directions to your house so you can get it for free if he is late
8. Unless something is damaged, its in "mint" condition
7. If it is damaged, then its "near mint"
6. If there is a limit per customer, bring a friend and come back every 10 minutes to buy more
5. Its cheaper to bribe a stock boy than the manager
4. Consequences schmonsequences, as long as I'm rich
3. No matter what you steal from the Federation, the Romulans will always pay top dollar for it
2. Only sell to civilizations dumber than you are
1. All those rules apply to other people--not you
This reminds me that I have a proposal for Ferengi gameplay that is based around the old Patrcian III game set in the Hanseatic League. Given the new Ferengi vendors in places like Defera it could make for interesting fun buying low and selling high to various vendors of special goods through out the galaxy and avoiding piracy and such.
Eve has a variable market value system with its NPC vendors as well, but is STO large enough to have one?
Not right now, no, but I wouldn't expect to see a playable Ferengi merchant until well after the addition of the Romulans and Cardassians. Maybe a third expansion kind of thing.
Here-here.
to quote old pointed ears "fasinating"
Eve has singly the most effective player driven economy of any game I have ever seen. This is attributable to two things.
1: Complete destructability of everything you own. This means there is a constant demand for replacement stuff. When you die you lose most if not all of what you had.
2: Almost everything you will ever use is player crafted. Drops can be better under certain circumstances and in certain ways but most players use predominately player crafted stuff. NPC vendors sell tat and blueprints for players to craft the gear. Many players of Eve spend their game time crafting and harvesting to make bullets for other players to shoot with.
STO cannot use this model as they are already embraked on the WoW model of indestructable player owned gear. This is always gonna reduce any market economy to the 'I can make the uber leet rare crafted item that everyone wants one of'. This, in turn means in almost every case items will sell for less than the materials used to make them, except in odd instances, because far more people make multiple items to level the skill than they will ever actually need or use. Sad but true, and we are on this path already.
Market economies rely heavily on consumables. As long as grenades come in infinity satchels and hypos are replicateable we have no chance whatsoever.
...
not that I could actually *do* anything with all that EC...
Sometimes I wonder why I don't just spend all the credits on a single rare item. Then I realise that it will have the exact same dps or whatever as a white item of the same class, just with a weeny little increase in crit chance or whatever.
Was not suggesting that we do. I stated that EvE has varying prices/values on items depending on which NPC vendor you visit and where said vendor is and was curiuos if STO is large enough to follow a similiar model, given that travel times between such NPC's would not take very long.
I was not refering to the items sold by the players at these locations, merely the ones offere by the NPC's.
I want to see more of the Klingon culture. Will it happen? If it doesn't, I'm pretty much through with the game, lifer or not. I've been wanting to play a Klingon since the game was announced, and all I got was a glorified Monster Play. So, I leveled a Federation toon while I waited...and I waited some more...got bored with the game and left...only to return to very little added to the faction beyond the shared content and eight missions (which were both awesomely written, don't get me wrong).
The KDF has a tarnished reputation right now, and anything short of massive changes will not change that viewpoint.
My sentiments exactly, except for the leaving part. I'll play me Klingon until the bitter end. They will have to cancel me before I quit.
But when I come to STO.. My heart still beats as a warrior of the empire... But there seems so little for me to do. I'd like to get at least to the point of being able to do the weekly. But my first nebula mission has me running around trying to find the last two borg devices that I can't scan for.
The UGC could very well be the thing that saves me, and I'm looking forward to not only playing but making stuff with it... But I'm not sure when that will even come out.
Is the KDFAssistance chan, very active? If there's at least some social interaction going I'd be more willing to endure some of the grind.
The exploration missions are a joke in their current format. You have to play in the basis that 1 in 5 you should simply abandon.
I have seen no reply from Cryptic indicating they will fix the scanner along ith the implementation of klingon crafting, so in my state of eroded fatih, I have to assume it is not going to be.