...I'd like to see KDF research facilities that distribute "proto-types" based on instruction from the Empire or the head of Houses. The means of obtaining the "privelege" of recieving such advanced proto-types, be tied one's warrior prowess, dedication to duty to the Empire or House, and status within the Empire or House.
I definitely like the idea of bringing the House system into it and agree "trick or treating" should not be possible.
So, what can we do for Houses to earn "prestige" to get to select "prototypes" as rewards? Can we marry that to the exploration missions?
For reasons of parity, the Klingon system should at least as hard the Federation system (preferably harder because Feds are wimps ). So, there should be something we pickup that takes up cargo/vault space and gets turned in.
So, Let's combine two facts and one soft canon thought:
We blow a lot of stuff up
The Empire is resource constrained
(Soft canon) Klingon House's supply ships, weapons, and trained warriors to the KDF (our allies supply them too)
So, perhaps what should happen is when we blow stuff up there's resources to salvage (parity with Anomalies) which we cart around and junk up our vaults with. They should be a bit of a pain to get to (like turning a cruiser 180 degrees because it's 12 km behind you).
Providing these resources to our House gains us prestige. Which takes us back to Cocoa Jin's idea (house provides prototypes). Although, there is a small problem with that. The Federation gets those new technologies from research and for them to just appear in the KDF smacks of magic. I suppose we could have a back door in that the Ferengi sell the houses those Technologies (under Rule #34).
Edit: Just realized (duh) that salvaged items might contain new bits of technology that we could use to "modify" our gear. Although, this is really starting to sound like the "Conquest" approach, so .... :eek:
Edit2: There was an earlier post (couple actually) about how not only do the Klingons have scientists, but that our allies are experts in certain fields (e.g., Orions know about speed from their smuggling days). While I'm not a fan of "trick or Treat", Houses do have allies and rather than have all of eggs in one basket (like Memory Alpha), Perhaps your House is the equivalent of the "General" crafting and each of the 3 homeworlds represents one of the other aspects.
I second this...the last thing we need to do is perpetuate the myth of intellectual inferiority.:mad:
The difference isnt so much in how the advancments happen...its in the priorities of what is researched, the resources allocated to it and means of distribution.
I'd like to see KDF research facilities that distribute "proto-types" based on instruction from the Empire or the head of Houses. The means of obtaining the "privelege" of recieving such advanced proto-types, be tied one's warrior prowess, dedication to duty to the Empire or House, and status within the Empire or House.
Basically, the completon of certain activities would grant credit toward the "privelege". Maybe it would use certain alcolades and trophies as currency...proof of one's contributions to the Empire or House.
To better flesh out the experience, what I'd like to see is different Houses and branches of the KDF that we could do missions for. These Houses and branches would provide access to certain specific "proto-types". So Cannon guys might do missions for a certain branch or House to gain access to its new cannon proto-type. For me, i'd like to see the process not be too linear. That way the content isnt just grinded to reach the "reward"...but thats likly asking too much.
Also, i'd like to see the process be one of just bouncing from one House to the other "trick or treating" for gear. House relations should be maintained...working and gaining status for one House should make things difficult, if not impossible, to gain status within another in order to gain access to their proto-types. Betrayal shouldnt be an option since such actions would be frowned upon by all Houses, making the prospect of achieving or maintaining status within their ranks unlikly.
Interesting I'd like to read a possible example mission of what you have in mind for mixing the House system and the Crafting system if you can think of one. I'm not sure I share your sentiments, but I don't want to dismiss them out of hand without more info.
It is poor, No crafting for KLingons, no diplomacy Mssions fpr Klingons (yes, Klingons are known to talk with Batleths and disrubtors, but they HAVE diplomats, so....) and Klingons are restricted to a handfull of sectors to explore, while a fed char can explore every region, except the Klingon Home-Sectors,
So it has more to change for the Klingons, then just the crafting!
Imagine WoW with same restrictions. Alliance can do much more and go everywhere and hord has to sit at home. I don't think WoW would have been that big success that it is, if things would be as they are in STO.
i know that alot see the klingons as the main thing in the kdf but i would personally like the kdf crafting to come from one of the other advanced races in the kdf, namy the nausicaans, yet they are so secretive that not alot know exactly there true numbers or the size of there space fleet it is known that it is huge and there tech is more advanced then alot know.
so if there was some way to implement a nausicann homeworld and have the crafting done through them and take some of the presure of the klingons to have all the content rotate around them as omegablock is now getting so cluttered its unreal.
something along the lines of piracy and stealing tech, retro engineering it and breaking down the parts of gear for parts to us to use to create new gear, and we lvl up via making and breaking stuff down in 2 trees, so the better you are at breaking down stuff the better and mnore stuff you get from breaking down and retro engineering and then the other tree for actually using the parts to create things.
I do not see the klingons as thieves, but i do see them in the sense that when someone offends them, breaks their laws, or code of honor, and encroaches on their claimed territory, then they would seize all assets in the name of the empire, essentially making it subject to its rule, and privy to their use.
I do not see the klingons as thieves, but i do see them in the sense that when someone offends them, breaks their laws, or code of honor, and encroaches on their claimed territory, then they would seize all assets in the name of the empire, essentially making it subject to its rule, and privy to their use.
and whats about the nausicaans, gorn and orions, do you think they can be seen as pirates and thieves.
and whats about the nausicaans, gorn and orions, do you think they can be seen as pirates and thieves.
Doesn't really make a difference as all the starship captains are working for the KDF and if they were honorless their first officer would be obligated to kill them and take command.
What we need is something everyone pretty much agrees is honorable (not an easy task), fun, immersive, within canon, is on parity with the difficulty of the Fed system (e.g., equivalent rewards, eats up time, cargo and vault space). Bonus points for showing Cryptic the "evolution" of the crafting system that replaces it with something better (causing the Feds to drool and for the KDF to dominate in the market) and coupling it to exploration or other ideas that merge it in with Klingon lore (e.g., Houses).
Assuming there is a possiblity of making some of the process of getting schematics and valuable materials race-specific we could of course add some ways that are more "sneaky".
Those would ne fit the Klingon way of things, but more the Orion way.
We know that there are some advanced methods of curgical alterations so in theory people like the Orions, with a history of crimial activity could conduct intelligence operations inside Stafleet.
Imagine you character gets curgically alterd for a specific mission to infiltrate "Memory Alpha" for example.
Of ocurse it would not need to the "real" Memory Alpha but a specific instance of that map created for that mission.
You char receives a different "costume" for that mission, like you receive a runabout "Costume" in one of the new Klingon missions and then you need to make you way through Mem Alpha to get to some design schematics or steal some rare materials.
Of course such a mission profile would not work with every race, I doubt you can disguise a Klingon or a Gorn as a Starfleet officer as easily as an Orion nor would they want to undertake such a mission.
So there would need to be alternative routes for them to get what they require for crafting.
well i dont think that klingons are so big on the honor, yes they like to go into battle and die, woop, but nausicaans are true warriors, they fight, they kill, they enjoy throwing darts at each other chests, they are pirates, they take on anything, and they kill humans to drain there fluids to create drugs, now i would like todo that to a few feds.
orions, simply do not care about anything, they will take people down any way possible, there females are so hot no man can say no to them. they dont take anything from anyone and kick butt whislt doing what they like todo best, be evil.
the gorn, well lets look at em, there hard, there big lizards, there very intelegent, they could take on the war themselves, so could the nausicaans if they wished. both of them are the strongest races in the KDF. you never hear of backstabbing from them to get themselves into power. they dont use the romys in backstab ideas, they kill or be killed.
the lethans, no idea who they are but with a face like that whos gonna question them.
the point is, KDF is a side, Yes the head stuff comes from the klingons but they are far from the strongest on the kdf side. the klingons have basically had the same tech and ships for how many years. the stuff they can pull from the other races is immense and they should utilise this as an inspirations for future content.
Interesting I'd like to read a possible example mission of what you have in mind for mixing the House system and the Crafting system if you can think of one. I'm not sure I share your sentiments, but I don't want to dismiss them out of hand without more info.
Assuming there is a possiblity of making some of the process of getting schematics and valuable materials race-specific we could of course add some ways that are more "sneaky".
Those would ne fit the Klingon way of things, but more the Orion way.
We know that there are some advanced methods of curgical alterations so in theory people like the Orions, with a history of crimial activity could conduct intelligence operations inside Stafleet.
Imagine you character gets curgically alterd for a specific mission to infiltrate "Memory Alpha" for example.
Of ocurse it would not need to the "real" Memory Alpha but a specific instance of that map created for that mission.
You char receives a different "costume" for that mission, like you receive a runabout "Costume" in one of the new Klingon missions and then you need to make you way through Mem Alpha to get to some design schematics or steal some rare materials.
Of course such a mission profile would not work with every race, I doubt you can disguise a Klingon or a Gorn as a Starfleet officer as easily as an Orion nor would they want to undertake such a mission.
So there would need to be alternative routes for them to get what they require for crafting.
Star Trek the Original Series, The Trouble with Tribbles. Klingon Officer cosmetically altered to appear human.
Also it was an earlier link but i would like to do a full quote here for those who don't press links
The Science Institute on Mempa V (or simply the Science Institute) was an institution of research and higher learning in the Klingon Empire, located on the planet Mempa V. It was considered the most prestigious institute of its kind within the Empire.
Kurak, daughter of Haleka worked under the legendary engineer Makros at the Science Institute. (KE novel: A Burning House)
Lieutenant Vall decided against going to the Science Institute, over the objections of his family, in order to seek glory in the Klingon Defense Force. (TNG novel: Diplomatic Implausibility)
The Science Institute worked for many turns on a method to counter the Dominion tactic of using antiproton beams to detect cloaked ships. They had developed a solution by early 2381; however, during the Borg Invasion of 2381, the Institute facilities had to be abandoned, and the Institute re-established on Ty'Gokor. They were able to preserve their work files, and to replicate the new cloak in short order
My personal opinion is that both a standard research and a Conquest acquisition of technology should be implemented in their own ways. I'm trying to think of a Way in which, like others on this thread are, to integrate the nature of the great houses. After reading this thread I see this as a challenge i want to tackle.
And maybe even start a side group just to fleshout a solid concept with as many of the I's dotted and T's crossed that we can.
"The Orions, ah, the Orions make properly grateful allies. We gave them a planet and our protection, and they gave us beautiful women to serve our great houses. The Gorn, as well, make decent allies, once we defeated them and took over their Hegemony. They swore allegiance to us, so we allowed them their own government. Never say the Klingon Empire is not generous"
well i've mentioned this before in another thread, but as this one is specific..
the idea i had was fairly simple, more like a re-skin of the current fed system.
Klingon space has seen many battles, with other races, other empires and within themselves. its canon that they take pot-shots at space junk too (star trek V i think... )
so their space could be littered with ships (as seen in the exploration "blow up 5 ships" missions) and parts from ships.
these would replaces the "Anomolies" for the federation side, physical (hull parts), energy signatures (particles left from enemy weapon fire/ warp plasma etc) and technological, (uniqe parts from other ships). the KDF could locate these as a supplement to supplies for the war effort.
making a large floating "junk-yard" map with a big KDF base in it for the crafting hub, in which KDF mechanics work on using, adapting and technology from other races for use in KDF ships.. which replaces memory alpha.
now thats just a crude idea, based on a re-skin of the current mechanics, it needs tweaking and altering and some "story-telling" fleshing out but its something that could be done quickly, bringing the harvest/upgrade aspect to the KDF side soon and without serious dev-time needed to invent it.
I'll say this to the topic: I do NOT want to have to go scan anomalies to do Klingon crafting. It feels completely un-klingon-like.
Having a series of missions in which we go and conquer members of a technically advanced species and then take their tech bit by bit seems more what a warrior would do. (It would also be a lot more challenging than scanning anomalies, since we would essentially be fighting someone who has the upper hand)
So I prefer the right of conquest approach, but I'm open to other mechanics, which nonetheless have to be as different from memory alpha as possible.
Klingons have engineers and scientists, we've seen them on a number of occasions ranging from Kang's wife Mara in TOS through Korath in Voyager's "Endgame" episode. It may not be as glamorous a pursuit in a society of warriors as it is in the Federation but it isn't something alien to them either. There's nothing so say that there can't simply be a Klingon research outpost somewhere kept supplied by some combination of the Klingon High Command and the Orion Syndicate. It would take a little time to set something like that up but nowhere near the effort it would take to devise a 'research by conquest' system.
I'll say this to the topic: I do NOT want to have to go scan anomalies to do Klingon crafting. It feels completely un-klingon-like.
Having a series of missions in which we go and conquer members of a technically advanced species and then take their tech bit by bit seems more what a warrior would do. (It would also be a lot more challenging than scanning anomalies, since we would essentially be fighting someone who has the upper hand)
So I prefer the right of conquest approach, but I'm open to other mechanics, which nonetheless have to be as different from memory alpha as possible.
I have been thinking about this for a while now, and here is what I would like to see.
Crafting (all not just Klingon) should have two elements. First, should be schematics - these are the designs for a new item. Second should be resources. Currently we just have resources, and the method of obtaining them is mind-numbingly simplistic.
I propose the following changes. Resources should be tied into a territory control game. These can be obtain by competing in either PvP territory control battles or PvE territory competitions. Essentially this would be an expansion on the Diplomacy system for Feds and an introduction of a House system for Klingons.
Schematics would be obtained in two different ways depending on your faction. For Feds, they would research the schematics, actually their BO's would do the researching. Depending on the complexity of the it could take anywhere from 30 minutes to a couple of days. For Klingons, schematics would be obtained through reverse engineering.
To elaborate on the Klingon approach. You are tasked with a mission in the territory control sector, upon completion you loot "interesting new technology". You give this loot to your Engineer and task them with reverse engineering and adapting it to KDF technology. Depending on the complexity it can take any where from 30 minutes to a couple of days for the process to complete. The end result is a schematic that can be used for X number of crafting sessions.
The once you have a usable schematic and the appropriate resources you can then have the item crafted by your Engineering BO. I'd love ot see this be the "role" for Chief Engineers, it gives them their special game play.
For instance you can assign a BO as Chief Engineer and they will either be in the "Engineering Office" in the interior of the Klingon ship or in the "Engineering Lab" on Fed ships. Both could of course access the same data from the R&D tab on the HUD, but this provides a use for these interiors for those who want it.
I figured that I might throw in a contribution or two...
Klingon science is probably more results-oriented than actual theory. Klingons strike me as the types that would poke a beehive to see what would happen, rather than sit and study it for a year and write a thesis.
So...in that spirit...
How about a crafting system that is all about discovery, instead of "known" combinations of materials (like Memory Alpha)?
Crafting requires raw resources of some sort -- so let's start with collection of raw materials. For the Feds, these are particles of some sort...for klingons, I think that collection of various metals, and metals with special properties could do the trick.
Now, for the actual crafting, the process should have an element of risk, and it should be discovery-oriented. A system where you start out with a set of materials (metals, common items, etc), and you attempt to combine them into a new item -- if your level is high enough, you might suceed in "learning" that recipe or schematic...if your level is too low, you will fail to make the item, and all of the materials you invested will be lost. The actual list of items that can be discovered is kept secret -- players have to find them out for themselves through trial and error. Add to that computer modelling simulation that will at least give the Klingon crafter a percentage chance to discover...something...before they hit the "engage" button on the forging replicator device.
Sheer luck would also play a significant part...and add to this entire process a purely statistically insignificant probability of a breakthrough event that creates a unique purple item by sheer chance...and that alone will create a very high interest in Klingon crafting.
Crafting requires raw resources of some sort -- so let's start with collection of raw materials. For the Feds, these are particles of some sort...for klingons, I think that collection of various metals, and metals with special properties could do the trick.
...and to get an idea of how to collect those various metals in a Klingon fashion, take a look post #30 by me.
No one has replied to my post yet, I'm curious to know what you all think of the ideas.
Including the homeworlds for the Gorn, Nausicaans and Orions and then separating the crafting tech into three different areas, allowing Klingon Warriors to gain advanced technology upgrades from there allies is a wonderful idea. It would also add new social hubs, each of the three new planets would naturally be very unique, compared to the Klingon planets.
Using homeworlds would cause a problem in how long it would take the art department to create multiple locations. I think a single source for the crafting will make it much easier and quicker to get. A prison colony, either on a planet or space station would be the best bet for this. It wouldn't have to be one of the known colonies since its existence could be meant to be a secret outside of the Klingon Empire. It could also be setup in such a way that collecting resources and materials would be the first step in unlocking access to the crating site. A captain would have to gain a preset amount of crafting material to even be given a mission to go to the site.
Well there's canon evidence in the first episode I linked that shows Nausicaan pirates attacking / raiding a Y-class freighter for cargo, so there's one idea that could be viable, involving raids that not only utilise space combat, but also ground combat (if the Devs could produce a small freighter interior). You could acquire anomaly samples or possible (which I would prefer) acquire various resources (that are not anomalies) to hand over to the scientists on the Gorn, Nausicaan and Orion homeworlds. Yes I'm suggesting scrapping the use of anomalies for the Klingons, but not scrapping how the system works, just basically replacing the names of the anomaly items to the names of various resources.
Collecting the resources for crafting could also be done by variations on the diplomatic missions from the Federation side. "Aid the planet" missions could become more like "Raid the planet" missions. This could go through a few different scenarios, either a known colony that is under the protection of the Klingons and must supply what they owe the Klingons for protecting them or an unknown colony that is approached about having moved into Klingon space. This could also lead to some colonies refusing to comply leading to ground and/or space combat to reach the goal (it is the Klingons afterall).
The run to different computers to do whatever diplomatic missions could become run to various computers and tear them apart (melee) to get to the technology inside. Again, possible at the resistance of the residents that don't see the Klingon's need for such information.
Whatever is collected could also be random drops from ships and personnel during normal combat missions.
These are some of the possibilities I see in collecting resources in a more Klingon way than just scanning everything.
I'm curious to know what you all think of the ideas.
I'm still concerned about parity (#33) and you know what I think of Nausicaan Pirates (#39). Otherwise I like the idea of social hubs, and from #33 we're on the same wavelength about each race having an expertise. Certainly from earlier posts we seem to also have the same idea that "taking" doesn't have to be dishonorable. So, all in all, I liked it!
A prison colony, either on a planet or space station would be the best bet for this.
I still really do not think that the KDF would research, design or reverse engineer new technology at a prison colony, it just doesn't seem realistic at all.
A captain would have to gain a preset amount of crafting material to even be given a mission to go to the site.
It was previously suggested within this thread that a member of the KDF would or should have to gain prestiege in some form or another to gain access to "crafting", which is a good idea, but I don't believe the amount of resources gained would make any difference or shouldn't make any difference.
The run to different computers to do whatever diplomatic missions could become run to various computers and tear them apart (melee) to get to the technology inside. Again, possible at the resistance of the residents that don't see the Klingon's need for such information.
Interesting idea, I'm not sure if I can see the KDF tearing apart common computer terminals to retrive alien tech, but perhaps your idea could be used for a much rarer piece of alien hardware at the heart of a base or station. KDF players could possibly fight there way to the tech and / or use common computer terminals to bypass security systems such as force fields, unlock doors and / or look up information on the advanced tech that they are attempting to take.
Thank you, appreciate it and by the way, I also liked the idea of scanning debris, looking for tech that can be salvaged after battle, which you mentioned in post #33
Anything that increases the gameplay of the KDF and future factions has my support. So tired of the fed-first/everybody else to the back mentality of STO.
also a glimpse into klingon scientists;
The Age of Expansion
It took the First Empire nearly a century to fully recover from the damage done by the Hur'q Invasion. Recovery was hindered by infighting between the different noble houses for control over scarce resources. Slowly but surely, the Klingons rebuilt their shattered Empire and repopulated their cities. They looked towards space with a new vision. Now they knew there were enemies out there, enemies of the Klingon people. The Hur'q were gone, but they might come again, and the Klingon Empire fully intended to bring the battle to them.
The Klingons embarked on a study of the sciences of flight and space travel. Previously, there was little interest in either, apart from a few scholars who studied the prophecy of Kahless. Now the whole Empire devoted itself to learning how to reach the stars. The program suffered from various setbacks as civil wars split the Empire from time to time, and many early Klingon astronauts died in the name of science, but every effort taught the Klingons a little more.
By the early 21st century, the Klingon space program was well underway. The Klingons used vast slower-than-light generation ships to explore and colonize nearby star systems. These ships took decades to reach their destinations, carrying hundreds, even thousands of Klingons in suspended animation. If they found their destination uninhabited, the Klingons colonized. Where they found other civilizations, they conquered. In time, the Klingon Empire encompassed a cluster of systems surrounding Qo'noS. Governance of this vast Empire was difficult without the advantage of subspace communication, so many of the great houses directly governed colony worlds. This increased the power of the houses and further divided them into separate camps.
In 2069 AD the last Klingon Emperor died without a successor. For a short time civil war on Qo'noS-and throughout the Empire-seemed certain, but the High Council of the noble houses stepped forward to take up the reins of power. For generations the High Council had grown in power and influence, going from an advisory body established by Kahless to the real power behind the imperial throne.
The death of the Emperor worked in the Council's favor, and they decided to secure power for themselves. The Chancellor of the Council assumed executive power and the role of Emperor was left vacant. Klingons consider the death of the last Emperor the end of the First Empire, and the ascension of the Council as the beginning of the Second Empire.
i like all the ideas i read in this thread especially converting the exploration areas in to a conquest area.
gulag idea was nice too same with the regular grafting style scientist system. i think having all 3 would be benificial whats really cannon about all of them is all the ideas show the many faces the klingons had in the shows books and movies. the empire its self was sub divided by the houses.
i saw another thread about open pvp house battle areas, which i would love but i know it will be while before anything like that is developed.
but imagine that your actions effect your standing in the empire, what house you or your fleet align with. conquering for technology or pirating is seen as dishonorable to one house but Duras said its cool and the syndicate doesn't care as long as they get thier cut.
me i have a complete nasican (pirates all of um :eek:) crew, an orion crew, and the only klingon member i have is a half borg captain.
what i am basically saying is that if house mortok doesn't like me, there is always house duras and the cindicate.
although i do believe that returns for taking the honorable approached should be predefined were as pirating and conquest should be random, some times the hualer has gold sometimes it has trash
when i think about some of the other games i used to fly around in empire space (when i went there) in a sensor boosted thrasher with a warp disruptor instead of a shuttle just to pick people off that had bounties. lol wasn't great source of income but if i were going to reship to go back in to 0.0 5+ mil bounty was worth it, caught a few people with 10 + bounty.
Comments
I definitely like the idea of bringing the House system into it and agree "trick or treating" should not be possible.
So, what can we do for Houses to earn "prestige" to get to select "prototypes" as rewards? Can we marry that to the exploration missions?
So, Let's combine two facts and one soft canon thought:
So, perhaps what should happen is when we blow stuff up there's resources to salvage (parity with Anomalies) which we cart around and junk up our vaults with. They should be a bit of a pain to get to (like turning a cruiser 180 degrees because it's 12 km behind you).
Providing these resources to our House gains us prestige. Which takes us back to Cocoa Jin's idea (house provides prototypes). Although, there is a small problem with that. The Federation gets those new technologies from research and for them to just appear in the KDF smacks of magic. I suppose we could have a back door in that the Ferengi sell the houses those Technologies (under Rule #34).
Edit: Just realized (duh) that salvaged items might contain new bits of technology that we could use to "modify" our gear. Although, this is really starting to sound like the "Conquest" approach, so .... :eek:
Edit2: There was an earlier post (couple actually) about how not only do the Klingons have scientists, but that our allies are experts in certain fields (e.g., Orions know about speed from their smuggling days). While I'm not a fan of "trick or Treat", Houses do have allies and rather than have all of eggs in one basket (like Memory Alpha), Perhaps your House is the equivalent of the "General" crafting and each of the 3 homeworlds represents one of the other aspects.
Interesting I'd like to read a possible example mission of what you have in mind for mixing the House system and the Crafting system if you can think of one. I'm not sure I share your sentiments, but I don't want to dismiss them out of hand without more info.
So it has more to change for the Klingons, then just the crafting!
Imagine WoW with same restrictions. Alliance can do much more and go everywhere and hord has to sit at home. I don't think WoW would have been that big success that it is, if things would be as they are in STO.
so if there was some way to implement a nausicann homeworld and have the crafting done through them and take some of the presure of the klingons to have all the content rotate around them as omegablock is now getting so cluttered its unreal.
something along the lines of piracy and stealing tech, retro engineering it and breaking down the parts of gear for parts to us to use to create new gear, and we lvl up via making and breaking stuff down in 2 trees, so the better you are at breaking down stuff the better and mnore stuff you get from breaking down and retro engineering and then the other tree for actually using the parts to create things.
and whats about the nausicaans, gorn and orions, do you think they can be seen as pirates and thieves.
Doesn't really make a difference as all the starship captains are working for the KDF and if they were honorless their first officer would be obligated to kill them and take command.
What we need is something everyone pretty much agrees is honorable (not an easy task), fun, immersive, within canon, is on parity with the difficulty of the Fed system (e.g., equivalent rewards, eats up time, cargo and vault space). Bonus points for showing Cryptic the "evolution" of the crafting system that replaces it with something better (causing the Feds to drool and for the KDF to dominate in the market) and coupling it to exploration or other ideas that merge it in with Klingon lore (e.g., Houses).
Those would ne fit the Klingon way of things, but more the Orion way.
We know that there are some advanced methods of curgical alterations so in theory people like the Orions, with a history of crimial activity could conduct intelligence operations inside Stafleet.
Imagine you character gets curgically alterd for a specific mission to infiltrate "Memory Alpha" for example.
Of ocurse it would not need to the "real" Memory Alpha but a specific instance of that map created for that mission.
You char receives a different "costume" for that mission, like you receive a runabout "Costume" in one of the new Klingon missions and then you need to make you way through Mem Alpha to get to some design schematics or steal some rare materials.
Of course such a mission profile would not work with every race, I doubt you can disguise a Klingon or a Gorn as a Starfleet officer as easily as an Orion nor would they want to undertake such a mission.
So there would need to be alternative routes for them to get what they require for crafting.
orions, simply do not care about anything, they will take people down any way possible, there females are so hot no man can say no to them. they dont take anything from anyone and kick butt whislt doing what they like todo best, be evil.
the gorn, well lets look at em, there hard, there big lizards, there very intelegent, they could take on the war themselves, so could the nausicaans if they wished. both of them are the strongest races in the KDF. you never hear of backstabbing from them to get themselves into power. they dont use the romys in backstab ideas, they kill or be killed.
the lethans, no idea who they are but with a face like that whos gonna question them.
the point is, KDF is a side, Yes the head stuff comes from the klingons but they are far from the strongest on the kdf side. the klingons have basically had the same tech and ships for how many years. the stuff they can pull from the other races is immense and they should utilise this as an inspirations for future content.
I'll need sometime to figure that out myself.:(
Star Trek the Original Series, The Trouble with Tribbles. Klingon Officer cosmetically altered to appear human.
Also it was an earlier link but i would like to do a full quote here for those who don't press links
My personal opinion is that both a standard research and a Conquest acquisition of technology should be implemented in their own ways. I'm trying to think of a Way in which, like others on this thread are, to integrate the nature of the great houses. After reading this thread I see this as a challenge i want to tackle.
And maybe even start a side group just to fleshout a solid concept with as many of the I's dotted and T's crossed that we can.
"The Orions, ah, the Orions make properly grateful allies. We gave them a planet and our protection, and they gave us beautiful women to serve our great houses. The Gorn, as well, make decent allies, once we defeated them and took over their Hegemony. They swore allegiance to us, so we allowed them their own government. Never say the Klingon Empire is not generous"
the idea i had was fairly simple, more like a re-skin of the current fed system.
Klingon space has seen many battles, with other races, other empires and within themselves. its canon that they take pot-shots at space junk too (star trek V i think... )
so their space could be littered with ships (as seen in the exploration "blow up 5 ships" missions) and parts from ships.
these would replaces the "Anomolies" for the federation side, physical (hull parts), energy signatures (particles left from enemy weapon fire/ warp plasma etc) and technological, (uniqe parts from other ships). the KDF could locate these as a supplement to supplies for the war effort.
making a large floating "junk-yard" map with a big KDF base in it for the crafting hub, in which KDF mechanics work on using, adapting and technology from other races for use in KDF ships.. which replaces memory alpha.
now thats just a crude idea, based on a re-skin of the current mechanics, it needs tweaking and altering and some "story-telling" fleshing out but its something that could be done quickly, bringing the harvest/upgrade aspect to the KDF side soon and without serious dev-time needed to invent it.
Having a series of missions in which we go and conquer members of a technically advanced species and then take their tech bit by bit seems more what a warrior would do. (It would also be a lot more challenging than scanning anomalies, since we would essentially be fighting someone who has the upper hand)
So I prefer the right of conquest approach, but I'm open to other mechanics, which nonetheless have to be as different from memory alpha as possible.
I have been thinking about this for a while now, and here is what I would like to see.
Crafting (all not just Klingon) should have two elements. First, should be schematics - these are the designs for a new item. Second should be resources. Currently we just have resources, and the method of obtaining them is mind-numbingly simplistic.
I propose the following changes. Resources should be tied into a territory control game. These can be obtain by competing in either PvP territory control battles or PvE territory competitions. Essentially this would be an expansion on the Diplomacy system for Feds and an introduction of a House system for Klingons.
Schematics would be obtained in two different ways depending on your faction. For Feds, they would research the schematics, actually their BO's would do the researching. Depending on the complexity of the it could take anywhere from 30 minutes to a couple of days. For Klingons, schematics would be obtained through reverse engineering.
To elaborate on the Klingon approach. You are tasked with a mission in the territory control sector, upon completion you loot "interesting new technology". You give this loot to your Engineer and task them with reverse engineering and adapting it to KDF technology. Depending on the complexity it can take any where from 30 minutes to a couple of days for the process to complete. The end result is a schematic that can be used for X number of crafting sessions.
The once you have a usable schematic and the appropriate resources you can then have the item crafted by your Engineering BO. I'd love ot see this be the "role" for Chief Engineers, it gives them their special game play.
For instance you can assign a BO as Chief Engineer and they will either be in the "Engineering Office" in the interior of the Klingon ship or in the "Engineering Lab" on Fed ships. Both could of course access the same data from the R&D tab on the HUD, but this provides a use for these interiors for those who want it.
Klingon science is probably more results-oriented than actual theory. Klingons strike me as the types that would poke a beehive to see what would happen, rather than sit and study it for a year and write a thesis.
So...in that spirit...
How about a crafting system that is all about discovery, instead of "known" combinations of materials (like Memory Alpha)?
Crafting requires raw resources of some sort -- so let's start with collection of raw materials. For the Feds, these are particles of some sort...for klingons, I think that collection of various metals, and metals with special properties could do the trick.
Now, for the actual crafting, the process should have an element of risk, and it should be discovery-oriented. A system where you start out with a set of materials (metals, common items, etc), and you attempt to combine them into a new item -- if your level is high enough, you might suceed in "learning" that recipe or schematic...if your level is too low, you will fail to make the item, and all of the materials you invested will be lost. The actual list of items that can be discovered is kept secret -- players have to find them out for themselves through trial and error. Add to that computer modelling simulation that will at least give the Klingon crafter a percentage chance to discover...something...before they hit the "engage" button on the forging replicator device.
Sheer luck would also play a significant part...and add to this entire process a purely statistically insignificant probability of a breakthrough event that creates a unique purple item by sheer chance...and that alone will create a very high interest in Klingon crafting.
...and to get an idea of how to collect those various metals in a Klingon fashion, take a look post #30 by me.
No one has replied to my post yet, I'm curious to know what you all think of the ideas.
Using homeworlds would cause a problem in how long it would take the art department to create multiple locations. I think a single source for the crafting will make it much easier and quicker to get. A prison colony, either on a planet or space station would be the best bet for this. It wouldn't have to be one of the known colonies since its existence could be meant to be a secret outside of the Klingon Empire. It could also be setup in such a way that collecting resources and materials would be the first step in unlocking access to the crating site. A captain would have to gain a preset amount of crafting material to even be given a mission to go to the site.
Collecting the resources for crafting could also be done by variations on the diplomatic missions from the Federation side. "Aid the planet" missions could become more like "Raid the planet" missions. This could go through a few different scenarios, either a known colony that is under the protection of the Klingons and must supply what they owe the Klingons for protecting them or an unknown colony that is approached about having moved into Klingon space. This could also lead to some colonies refusing to comply leading to ground and/or space combat to reach the goal (it is the Klingons afterall).
The run to different computers to do whatever diplomatic missions could become run to various computers and tear them apart (melee) to get to the technology inside. Again, possible at the resistance of the residents that don't see the Klingon's need for such information.
Whatever is collected could also be random drops from ships and personnel during normal combat missions.
These are some of the possibilities I see in collecting resources in a more Klingon way than just scanning everything.
I still really do not think that the KDF would research, design or reverse engineer new technology at a prison colony, it just doesn't seem realistic at all.
It was previously suggested within this thread that a member of the KDF would or should have to gain prestiege in some form or another to gain access to "crafting", which is a good idea, but I don't believe the amount of resources gained would make any difference or shouldn't make any difference.
That's pretty much a similar idea to the suggestion that I discribed relating to the second episode of Enterprise I linked in post #30.
Interesting idea, I'm not sure if I can see the KDF tearing apart common computer terminals to retrive alien tech, but perhaps your idea could be used for a much rarer piece of alien hardware at the heart of a base or station. KDF players could possibly fight there way to the tech and / or use common computer terminals to bypass security systems such as force fields, unlock doors and / or look up information on the advanced tech that they are attempting to take.
Thank you, appreciate it and by the way, I also liked the idea of scanning debris, looking for tech that can be salvaged after battle, which you mentioned in post #33
also a glimpse into klingon scientists;
gulag idea was nice too same with the regular grafting style scientist system. i think having all 3 would be benificial whats really cannon about all of them is all the ideas show the many faces the klingons had in the shows books and movies. the empire its self was sub divided by the houses.
i saw another thread about open pvp house battle areas, which i would love but i know it will be while before anything like that is developed.
but imagine that your actions effect your standing in the empire, what house you or your fleet align with. conquering for technology or pirating is seen as dishonorable to one house but Duras said its cool and the syndicate doesn't care as long as they get thier cut.
me i have a complete nasican (pirates all of um :eek:) crew, an orion crew, and the only klingon member i have is a half borg captain.
what i am basically saying is that if house mortok doesn't like me, there is always house duras
although i do believe that returns for taking the honorable approached should be predefined were as pirating and conquest should be random, some times the hualer has gold
when i think about some of the other games i used to fly around in empire space (when i went there) in a sensor boosted thrasher with a warp disruptor instead of a shuttle just to pick people off that had bounties. lol wasn't great source of income but if i were going to reship to go back in to 0.0 5+ mil bounty was worth it, caught a few people with 10 + bounty.