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Cryptic, I know that it costs money to run an MMO, and I know that your employees need to be paid, but let's be frank about this "C-Store" business. I haven't counted it up so this is a rough guess, but let's look at the price of STO. The game costs $20 still if I'm not mistaken, it's $15 per month unless you dish out enough money to buy a brand new PS3, I'd guess that there's at least $100 worth of stuff in the C-Store, and the game's only been out for 6 months.
I wouldn't have a problem with your adding stuff that we can get by throwing even more money at you if it weren't for the fact that I'm already giving you 1/3 of what I originally paid for the game every single month and the C-Store content is at least equal to the amount of free content. There may be more C-Store content than content you give us; it sure feels like it.
I don't mean to whine or complain, but I feel a bit ripped off and like your priorities aren't quite where they should be. C-Store additions are far more frequent than free additions. The Klingons are still woefully lacking in content compared to the Federation. Team exploration missions have been bugged and impossible on the Federation side since the release of Season 2. When I last checked a couple days ago, the Fluidic Space fleet action was (at least for me) still bugged and impossible to finish. I've heard PvP is still bugged. The rare data sample accolade is still bugged since I have a fair few more than 10 different kinds but still haven't completed that. I still occasionally see bugged explore missions with NPCs and anomalies underground and unreachable. The price of Mk XI equipment is completely unreasonable. Deadlines have been pushed back and bugs ignored, yet the C-Store keeps getting more items.
It seems to me that the company's concern is money first, happy gamers second. The pricing, too, is crazy; $25 for the Galaxy-X? It's not even that powerful when you consider that the game costs less to buy than that one ship. I personally know of several people who have quit playing STO for the reasons I have just described, and I'm on the fence about it.
Cryptic, please, I'm begging you as a gamer who feels cheated and a Star Trek fan who would hate to see this game fail; reassess your priorities and make sure they're in order, because we players are starting to wonder. Races, ships, bridges, ship skins, character costumes, items; why are these more important than actual gameplay additions? I hope I'm wrong, but the only reason I can see is because they make more money for you. Give the Klingons access to more than 3 sector blocks. Give us all open PvP, in a third shard if necessary. Give us (especially the Klingons) more missions. Fix the plethora of unresolved bugs.
We're not happy. "The customer is always right." That expression has its limitations, of course, but there's a lot of truth to the meaning behind it. We bought this game hoping to get a massive Star Trek adventure. What I see is another Star Trek game that happens to have other people. The adventure of exploring enemy space is only there for moments. The excitement of powerful enemies is either not there or on steroids (difficulty imbalances). Despite being at war with the Klingon Empire, Federation ships can only engage them in what feels like nothing more than war games, not true combat. I pass planet after planet down to which I cannot beam. I pass system after system I can't enter at my leisure. If I'm attacked while near the new Romulan capital planet, I can just warp out and be as safe as if I were at Earth; no adventure or danger.
I apologize if I seem overly critical, but after six months, I'm getting a bit frustrated. I keep saying "Wait till the next update, things will get better," and the next update either brings more things I can buy from you or more bugs; rarely does it bring new content for which I don't have to pay extra or any bug fixes. I paid more for this game when it came out than a game for my Wii, and since buying it, I've paid you the equivalent of two more Wii games. Any one of those Wii games could give me more content with fewer bugs than Star Trek Online can right now, and it saddens me. I'm not trying to get myself banned. I'm not trying to offend your design and maintenance teams. I'm simply trying desperately to express my distress and hope that someone will read this and take it seriously.
I'm begging you, Cryptic; stop wringing us for every extra penny you can and give us the content our money has earned us.
I wouldn't have a problem with your adding stuff that we can get by throwing even more money at you if it weren't for the fact that I'm already giving you 1/3 of what I originally paid for the game every single month and the C-Store content is at least equal to the amount of free content. There may be more C-Store content than content you give us; it sure feels like it.
I don't mean to whine or complain, but I feel a bit ripped off and like your priorities aren't quite where they should be. C-Store additions are far more frequent than free additions. The Klingons are still woefully lacking in content compared to the Federation. Team exploration missions have been bugged and impossible on the Federation side since the release of Season 2. When I last checked a couple days ago, the Fluidic Space fleet action was (at least for me) still bugged and impossible to finish. I've heard PvP is still bugged. The rare data sample accolade is still bugged since I have a fair few more than 10 different kinds but still haven't completed that. I still occasionally see bugged explore missions with NPCs and anomalies underground and unreachable. The price of Mk XI equipment is completely unreasonable. Deadlines have been pushed back and bugs ignored, yet the C-Store keeps getting more items.
It seems to me that the company's concern is money first, happy gamers second. The pricing, too, is crazy; $25 for the Galaxy-X? It's not even that powerful when you consider that the game costs less to buy than that one ship. I personally know of several people who have quit playing STO for the reasons I have just described, and I'm on the fence about it.
Cryptic, please, I'm begging you as a gamer who feels cheated and a Star Trek fan who would hate to see this game fail; reassess your priorities and make sure they're in order, because we players are starting to wonder. Races, ships, bridges, ship skins, character costumes, items; why are these more important than actual gameplay additions? I hope I'm wrong, but the only reason I can see is because they make more money for you. Give the Klingons access to more than 3 sector blocks. Give us all open PvP, in a third shard if necessary. Give us (especially the Klingons) more missions. Fix the plethora of unresolved bugs.
We're not happy. "The customer is always right." That expression has its limitations, of course, but there's a lot of truth to the meaning behind it. We bought this game hoping to get a massive Star Trek adventure. What I see is another Star Trek game that happens to have other people. The adventure of exploring enemy space is only there for moments. The excitement of powerful enemies is either not there or on steroids (difficulty imbalances). Despite being at war with the Klingon Empire, Federation ships can only engage them in what feels like nothing more than war games, not true combat. I pass planet after planet down to which I cannot beam. I pass system after system I can't enter at my leisure. If I'm attacked while near the new Romulan capital planet, I can just warp out and be as safe as if I were at Earth; no adventure or danger.
I apologize if I seem overly critical, but after six months, I'm getting a bit frustrated. I keep saying "Wait till the next update, things will get better," and the next update either brings more things I can buy from you or more bugs; rarely does it bring new content for which I don't have to pay extra or any bug fixes. I paid more for this game when it came out than a game for my Wii, and since buying it, I've paid you the equivalent of two more Wii games. Any one of those Wii games could give me more content with fewer bugs than Star Trek Online can right now, and it saddens me. I'm not trying to get myself banned. I'm not trying to offend your design and maintenance teams. I'm simply trying desperately to express my distress and hope that someone will read this and take it seriously.
I'm begging you, Cryptic; stop wringing us for every extra penny you can and give us the content our money has earned us.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Now one are I think he is spot on, more content! Both sides need more, but Klingons especially so. I'd like to see a mass influx of new missions added for season 3, not just UGC (whenever that comes out). When releasing new missions, it should be at least a ratio of 3 to 1....thats 3 klingon missions for every new fed mission you add to the game. Personally I don't play klingons too much, but I know a lot of people do and a slew of new missions would go along way to the eventual release of a 3rd faction (rommies)
When you say you fix something, acually try and fix it, or better yet, try it yourselves and see if it works. Example: You say you had fixed the pvp on the last major patch. I see no difference in the pvp matchmaking. Pvp works for the lower ranks such as Lt. and Lt. Cdr. But above that pvp is pretty much broken on BOTH sides. Don't get me wrong this is a great game, but adding new stuff for people to buy is starting to be a rip off in itself. You guys add more content to the C-store, this equals more bugs to tick people off. I have an idea, try fixing this game before adding new content. I'm eager for new content myself, even free content, but with new content comes more bugs, and with those bugs it causes more bugs. So slowing down on new content relseases especially on the C-store would eradicate bugs over time, and once many of the bugs are fixed you can start adding more stuff to STO. And fixing the bugs that may arise when released. Don't just dust if over, because it'll just keep getting worse.
When this game came out the reviews weren't exactly the best out there. And they still arn't the best. The highest I've seen this game it so far is a 6.9 or so out of 10. I ignored these reviews as I thought they we all full of it. Bought that game and had a blast with friends. But now some of my friends that are getting into the game are starting to regret getting it as the countless number of bugs just make the game almost unplayable.
I hope you guys at cryptic are reading this thread. Because many players are not happy, and you may or may not know it, but this game is slowly dying. And if you don't get your act together you guys may not be in business much longer, especially as the economy is nowadays.
It is indeed optional, but I believe the point is (without wishing to put words in the Admiral's mouth), that Cryptic's focus should be on fixing the still seemingly bug-riddled game and providing a workable level of new content (particularly for the Klingons) before focusing on additional purchasable content. Indeed there is perhaps a business argument for this - if players decide to leave because the game itself is buggy and lacking in content, then there are even fewer people to buy from the C-Store.
1. Start with "I dont mean to whine or complain but..." because they always do whine and complain
2. State "We the gamers/players/subscribers are unhappy"
You dear friend, have done both. Dont put 'we' in forum posts as you have no idea what opinion I have on the matter... Im sick of having to repost the easiest and simplist responce in the world to stuff like this... if you dont like the c-store then dont use it. The devs dont put items on the store saying "BUY THEM OR WE WILL KILL A KITTEN" its there for people who want them.
The Galaxy-X debaucle would be hilarious if the joke hadnt gone on this long... you can acquire the ship for FREE, all you have to do is get five friends to subscribe to the game. Its not hard, I myself have gotten two people to play and when I hit Admiral I will be purchasing the ship - and thats MY choice, it isnt Cryptic making the choice for me (Though I think I see StormShade tying a brick to a small furry animal under my desk :P)
End of the day this game has never once told you, you have to do anything... the c-store is optional, I apreciate that some people feel cheated and I understand them. I personally know a few guys who have got the Galaxy X the long way round only to find it on the C-Store but come on, this happenned a while back now. The devs apologised if they upset or offended anyone and tbh I feel fine with them. No one in the MMO world works as hard as Cryptic do, as a formers Champions Online player I honestly feel they are putting all their efforts into this one game.
I dont wish this to sound like a rant... It just annoys the hell out of me when people have to put "We" into the post. Especially when I for one, do not see a problem.
Hope I've not upset you, im not looking for an argument, just my two cents :-)
The C-store is optional. Don't want it? Don't buy it. It isn't as though they don't add things to the game for free. Just ignore the C-store if you don't like it.
Yes, the amount of stuff going up for sale in such a short amount of time (half-a-year or so from launch) is pretty insane. Yes, the resources being used for these items could go to other related in-game stuff free of charge. Yes, the pricing is a mind-bending mess of random numbers being thrown at a dartboard.
Aside from the above, my only other issues were the timing of the pre-order items being put up (I fully expected them to be put up but not this soon and I expected all of them and not half-or-so) and the per-character TRIBBLE for the ships, BOffs, and costume slots...with only the costume slots being changed over to account-wide.
Again...some valid points in the OP, but blown way out of proportion. If they stop listening to the dollar signs and start listening to the players things might be different...Frankly, I'm starting to get tired of these whine posts with little in the way of constructive criticism.
Well I'm in the same fleet and I don't care about the c-store like you said you are free to take it or leave it. But I do agree with the premise that Cryptic seems to be focused on putting more things that cost money in the c-store and not fixing other issues in the game like bugs and content. This is my opinion and you can agree or disagree but the bottom line is in the number of people that are playing the game is dropping and it is due in some part to the issues outline in the post not just that items in the c-store cost money.
As for the "you don't speak for me" comment, if I know a handful of players who more or less agree with me on that, I'm going to use a plural noun. No one would take the time to poll each and every individual STO player in the world just to make sure everyone's opinion is spoken for. I know several people with the same concerns I have; I'm expressing those opinions.
While I agree that there are some problems with the C-Store, I do not believe that it is quite at that level of doom-and-gloom yet. I think that there needs to be a radical rethinking on the concept and what should and should not go in there and a coming up with a normalized pricing structure is a must. However, the concept of an MT store is not a new one nor is it a bad one in theory. The major problem is that Cryptari marketing seems to not understand the concept nor know how to implement it properly.
I don't know about how others feel, but saying "we" automatically makes people think that you are talking about the entire player base, which is entirely untrue. There are a number of people that are fine with the C-Store as it is, others are fine with it providing that the company makes certain changes, while a third faction thinks that having an MT store in a P2P game is the sign of the gaming apocalypse. When making comments like that...please say something like "I can only speak for myself" or "I know a few people who feel the same way that I do". Just don't lump us all into one category like that or you WILL get responses like those above.
Personally, this thread screams to me as a "Make these changes or I'll quit" thread. Again, you're blowing things out of proportion and making a larger mountain of a smaller mountain. Season Two brought some much needed FREE content...not enough, mind you, but it's a slow start. I think that if the focus DOES change to in-game content over the C-Store the game will get better, but we need to look at both the positive as well as the negative aspects in STO.
Just complaining about what's wrong with the game will just push people away...Cryptic will continue to lose current and potential subs due to such a negative viewpoint without giving any consideration to the good the game has...and Atari will look at the figures and decide to pull the plug...something that most of us would not want to see happen.
Btw, there is $140 worth of C-Store content (at my last count)
I am part of his "WE" comment and he has a right to state his opinion of the game and show the developers where he and other players have a problem. That is the point of forums, an open area to discuss opinions on a topic, as well as problems or praises.
So much for everyone in fleets always agreeing.
One thing that needs to be realised, is that C-Store work does NOT take manpower away from the more important issues such as game mechanics and bug fixing, different people for different jobs.
This is something i have said many times on these forums.
That being said, i do agree however that far to much new content is being put up on the C-Store.
The retrofits IMO really do not belong there, and the upcoming Nebula and Excelsior class ships really should be just added to the game like any new ships and not the C-Store.
Nor should the off-duty uniforms, as our options are already lacking and the klingons don't even have any at all.
Totally Agreed.
CRYptic stop focusing on the C-Store and fix the bugs. Kar'rat has been bug central since day 1. 6 months in the system is still bug central. If you can add $25 ships to the C-store you can fix this system.
AS a side note, I dont think we will ever get the Klingons where they should be content wise. I also fear the day when the Romulans are playable. (95% Explore, 5% actuall missions????)
absolutely, as much as I want to see the Romulans come to play, I really doubt Cryptic would make the same mistake and from all accounts of what DStahl has said in podcasts and such, they seem to feel exactly the same way. I would expect not to see Romulans till at least next summer at earliest.
The problem is that there are indications that this is not true. The Nebula was not made by some "C-Store modeller." It was made by CpnLogan, who is generally seen working on non-store content. Any "free" (i.e. for sub price) content he could have been working on was not worked on while he was making something for Cryptic to sell.
The idea that there would be a team of devs paid for by the C-Store who would then focus on the C-Store was the sole saving grace of the MTs in my eyes. Now it seems like that never happened, and developing C-Store content actually pulls manpower from sub content.
Dstahl even admits himself that there is no seperate team for the C-Store.
So yes, EVERY item in the C-Store does take away content and bug fixes from the game.
Anyway, I apologize if I seemed over-spastic in my OP, but I have been getting irritated with the amount of content and frequency of content releases in the C-Store verses content released in-game.
The C-Store is not an atrocious idea -- it's a little discomfiting what with the subscription we pay. I can see, however, that this is a very customizable-content-intensive game, in that you aren't merely changing textures (like you do with a lot of the costumes in CoX (and even they charge for some of the more recent costume additions)) you're changing character models. This is pretty resource-intensive, so -- based on how $15 ten years ago should be $20 these days -- I can see how some additional revenue to keep more modellers on staff is necessary.
I am even not too unhappy with the amount of stuff being put into the C-Store compared to released content. There's very little the CapnLogan has to do with scripting new missions or coding new tech or debugging stuff. He models ships; that's what he does. In fact it would not surprise me if C-Store revenue is paying for CapnLogan.
HOWEVER... There are a few things I'm uncomfortable with regarding the C-Store. We have not yet heard back from dstahl about the proposal made to convert merits to C-Points, though judging by the introduction of Emblems and their use in unlocking additional ships, and that the T5 Excelsior is explicity excluded from that, I'm guessing that idea didn't take flight. This flies in the face of the original intention that things in the C-Store would be available through in-game actions. (And no, the 500 emblem grind does not bother me all that much, though it IS a lot.) Some sort of explanation as to what happened there would be appreciated but I doubt one will be forthcoming, which is unfortunate.
I would *very* much like for them to release more content, particularly more Klingon content. If this game had released when it was ready -- say, a year after it did release -- then we would not have nearly the content issues that we do now. Instead, now in addition to generating content, the team has to go bug hunting as well as introduce more and new content, and do that while the servers are 'live' which limits how many changes they can add and how much testing they can do. I do not think -- at this time -- that C-Store content vastly outweighs in-game content, though it sure can look that way. And if they aren't careful, it CAN get that way very quickly. It is a situation that deserves close watching and which needs to be very carefully balanced, especially since it is torquing off a lot of players. Wether they're justified in feeling angry or not is immaterial; there are players who are angry and they need to have their concerns addressed.
One final note: Open PvP does not seem to be desired by the majority of the playerbase, and a new shard seems unlikely. I will, however, gladly support RvR sector blocks that do not include PvE content, possibly as part of the Sector Space revamping. In fact such sectors could even entice people who are not normally into PvP into trying it out. (And while they're at it, cojoin the borders of the Romulans and the Klingons, so they can get in on that RvR action as well when they're introduced as a playable faction. Then do the same for the Breen, Feds, and Cardies.)
(This last idea does get me to ponder that one of the reasons why so many people are upset is because there is SO MUCH that can be done with the franchise in an MMO! and yet the one-year-too-early, contractually-obligated release (thanks so gorram much, Atari and CBS!) will negatively color the game for longer than a year.)
Anyway *shrug* my two centicredits.
it is $25 for a reason
it was a recruiting bonus, till you all whined about havign to recruit! so cryptic put it in the c-store, the high price is to reflect how scarce it should have been from the referall program and how the $25 would equate to getting the 5 people in to play which cryptic would lose out on as the complainers wouldnt do it and demanded it in the c-store. if i were cryptic id have put it on for more!
sure they are selling extra races etc... so? i think the extra races are great and most of the things in the cstore are so cheap compared to other mmos.... £20 horse in wow anyone???
if you dont like whats in the c-store dont buy it none of the stuff in there is life changing! the only reason so much stuff is in now is because people rant for them in 100s of useless threads!
If you'd even bother to read the thread before you posted, then you would have seen that I said someone explained the recruiting thing to me and that I wasn't nearly as irritated about the Galaxy-X as when I originally posted. But I guess that would take effort, kind of like using more than one or two punctuation marks in your entire post. =P
My problem, as I've said at least once or twice in this thread (again, try actually reading before you post) isn't that they're releasing stuff for sale; it's that it feels like they're release too much stuff for sale. I don't think it would be asking too much that we get a couple of playable races for free. Tellerites, for example, have been around since TOS. Ferengi in Starfleet have a canon basis in DS9, and you see Klingons in Starfleet in TNG, DS9 (Worf), and Voyager (B'ellana, even if she were only half). I think those should have been given to us. Caitans, for example, I can understand putting in the C-Store; they were rarely ever seen and not iconic. I'll reiterate in case the number of times I've said it already somehow left some confusion; I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE C-STORE'S EXISTENCE AND/OR USE. I have a problem with the amount of content in the C-Store and I think some of what is in there should have been given to us instead of sold to us.
just because i dont use punctuation marks doesn't make my point less valid. and i try to read as much of all the posts i can but there is that much ******** that it gets difficult to keep up most of the time. but yes they could release a few things free now and again but i doubt much will change any time soon.
Calm down. He was just pointing out, it is kinda hard to read your posts without punctuation.
All your quote showed was the a ship artist gets tied up making c store ships. The ship artist is not going to be fixing bugs if he has no ships to make. He's going to either be doing nothing, or if they did put him on free ships, then it would still be adding something to the game while there are bugs to be fixed. Kinda like the refit ships, you get one for free a VA and can earn the others for free, or buy them with cash. No one complained that they were making new free content while there were still bugs to be fixed. Kinda ironic, it's ok to make new stuff for free, but when they charge for things that's "taking man power away from bug fixing"
Now for the OP. Here is basically what you are asking for when you complain about the C-Store. Hey Cryptic you have this store and its making money because a lot of people are willing to pay for extra fluff. Why don't you stop making this extra money because it is hurting some people's feelings. Stop caring entirely about the paying customers who want to pay you more money, and start caring more about your customers who never want to give you a dime beyond the subscription price. It's wrong for a game developer to make money selling their product. Your role is after all to provide free content to all the under privileged trekkies of the world.
Gee, I wonder why they don't listen to you.
The C-Store will go away as soon as people stop buying from it. Just like any other store in the world.
And many of the people that complain about it still buy things from it.
I may just be a grammar TRIBBLE here, but spelling and punctuation make posts easier to read. We, as English speaking Humans, have agreed to communicate using certain standards. To completely ignore those standards shows that you either don't care enough about your reader to properly communicate with him (or her), or haven't put the time into your post that normal thinking individuals do and therefore did not proofread it before posting. Thus, you show that you had no interest in checking if your point made sense and was intelligible. Proofreading is a process designed to force us to think about what we write rather than just post it without a second thought. Your skipping it shows that you did not think about your post a second time and your reader will be inclined to assume that you posted it in frustration rather than actually considering it like an intelligent human being.
In short, punctuation marks mean you actually thought about your post.
(Just my personal pet peeve, please return to your regularly scheduled gripe)
except that it isn't optional. not if you want the full content of the game. cosmetic or not the simple fact is its content you have to buy if you want to have all the options the game can provide. now I don't know about you but i'd never pay, what, $140 or so at present? in order to get content that should already be in the game that i'm already paying to play