I don't play PvP for a lot of reasons but that interface in the OP is so easy to understand even I get it. I really hope the menu system does get revamped since that may all that is keeping some folks from actually doing pvp.
Thanks.
Part in parcel is dstahl saying the drag-down arrow to get to PvP should be brought to the foreground.
There are some players who still think you actually have to travel to Eti Eridani to do any PvP (even C&H or arena combat). That's the first sign that there's a problem with the interface. :rolleyes:
Haven't read through the whole thread, just the op and looked at the pretty pictures.
But, that said, four things jumped out at me regarding the public version:
Not friendly towards new factions (e.g., you'd need to revamp the window for Cardassians)
Not much room for other mission classifications (e.g., you'd need to revamp it for Starbases, Mining, Trading, and UGC missions to come)
Couldn't see the wait time for multiple queues at a glance (A lot of times I pick what to do based on what's available)
Didn't see how to join multiple queues
But it's pretty!
1) It'd scale better for new factions than the current system (imagine if every permutation of Fv... were listed for just C&H, large, and small - there are 4 right now, Romulans would add another 2, Cardassians add another two). This system would eventually "shrink" icons for new factions to save space. I enlarged it to make everything clear. 3x1 assortment of factions becomes 2x3 (supports 6 factions). We've fit three factions with every current permutation of modes/location in less space that the current list.
This is more progressive than making an already long list longer.
2) See #1. Reduce icons in half - either forming a 2x3 or 2x4 than our current one-list-fits all. That'd scale up to 6 to 8 public queue types.
3) Multiple queues could be handled with multiple queue tabs at the bottom. Keep in mind that integrated global chat and condensing all similar maps should reduce the need for multiple queues - which are two of the biggest draws to this design.
I made the buttons oversize for a number of reasons:
Make the system seem less busy (compared to a huge list).
Show how much space could be conserved by organizing laterally, condensing maps via cycling (aka map rotation) rather than a purely vertical presentation.
I'm working on a theoretical mock-up that would include all the factions listed on the poll plus the game modes StarbasePrime mentions.
Expect any updates on my part to be sparse till then.
Also, there are a few graphical quirks on some of the menus that are bugging me (i.e. tournment's filter options are in one box, private's filter options are in two).
An idea that I'm mot quite sure how feasible it is at the back end would be 'any' options. Basically, for any option, you can simply choose 'any', and it will pop up the first match that fits any other options. So, for example, if you choose 'Space' 'vs KDF' 'Any', it will pop up with the first space match versus Klingons that becomes available, no matter what the type of the match, and if you choose 'Ground' 'Any' 'Arena', for example, it will pop up the first ground arena match that's ready, no matter who the opponent is, and, of course, if you choose 'Any' 'Any' 'Any', it will pop up the first PvP match that becomes available, ground or space, against anyone, of any mode.
Assuming this idea wouldn't require a complete overhaul of the STO server structure or something, the only real downside, as far as I can see, is that there would be no real way to get an accurate figure for 'people waiting in the queue' for each individual match, but I would imagine this would be more than offest by encouraging PvP by allowing those who aren't particularly choosy about what PvP they do to essentially queue for a lot of different matches at once, and join the first that pops, rather than have to try to guess which will pop first by the number of people waiting.
An idea that I'm mot quite sure how feasible it is at the back end would be 'any' options. Basically, for any option, you can simply choose 'any', and it will pop up the first match that fits any other options. So, for example, if you choose 'Space' 'vs KDF' 'Any', it will pop up with the first space match versus Klingons that becomes available, no matter what the type of the match, and if you choose 'Ground' 'Any' 'Arena', for example, it will pop up the first ground arena match that's ready, no matter who the opponent is, and, of course, if you choose 'Any' 'Any' 'Any', it will pop up the first PvP match that becomes available, ground or space, against anyone, of any mode.
Assuming this idea wouldn't require a complete overhaul of the STO server structure or something, the only real downside, as far as I can see, is that there would be no real way to get an accurate figure for 'people waiting in the queue' for each individual match, but I would imagine this would be more than offest by encouraging PvP by allowing those who aren't particularly choosy about what PvP they do to essentially queue for a lot of different matches at once, and join the first that pops, rather than have to try to guess which will pop first by the number of people waiting.
There's one join any button at the moment. However, I moved it to the side to discourage spamming it and breaking queues.
I'll go bad and add an any button (as alternative layout). Keep in mind that the maps are condensed into broad topics. All space arenas (cracked, solar, briar) are together.
If they don't have any problem with sucking ships into deep space encounters, then there should be no problem sucking people into PvP matches that they voluntarily line up for.
Well, are you at the boss fight in Undine Terradome when a DSE sucks you up?
I'd have no objections to getting automatically placed into a PVP match after queuing. Let's say you are at that boss fight; suddenly you queue for PVP? You get what you ask for, lol.
By the way, very nice queue interface. Simple and clean.
You have covered all the common gripes of everyone in my fleet. Too few space maps/game types are played (capture and hold & cracked planetoid). Too many matches start with uneven teams. Need dedicated chat to get people into other maps/game types, etc.
Thanks for posting this and providing a decent graphic to get Cryptic's attention. Appears to have worked ;D
You have covered all the common gripes of everyone in my fleet. Too few space maps/game types are played (capture and hold & cracked planetoid). Too many matches start with uneven teams. Need dedicated chat to get people into other maps/game types, etc.
Thanks for posting this and providing a decent graphic to get Cryptic's attention. Appears to have worked ;D
Your thanks is welcome but I"m going to share it with everyone else that contributed to this thread.
I started with a few ideas of my own but it was ultimately they who provided the feedback to make it as polished as it is now.
I have to agree about changes to the queue. When I hit the PvP queue I just want a match, what kind of match, I can careless, just put me in and let me go at it.
I have to agree about changes to the queue. When I hit the PvP queue I just want a match, what kind of match, I can careless, just put me in and let me go at it.
Hence the join any button.
I suggested this to dstahl but I'm afraid the current system would stick you in every queue (breaking the ones you don't join) rather than the one most likely to fill.
I suggested this to dstahl but I'm afraid the current system would stick you in every queue (breaking the ones you don't join) rather than the one most likely to fill.
You see I was under the assumption that join any was for that one type of map match, not everything. I do agree that if I hit the join any in the current way it is done, should be changed. There have been lots of times that I joined a match to be either out numbered or out numbering the enemy. I do want a good even match; hopefully the Fleet I joined will be make preparations to have good fleet battles. However in the mean time the join any game should be for the match type selected. Too bad Cryptic couldnt have dedicated servers with matches going on if there are players or not. But then again that might lead to a lot of other problems.
You see I was under the assumption that join any was for that one type of map match, not everything. I do agree that if I hit the join any in the current way it is done, should be changed. There have been lots of times that I joined a match to be either out numbered or out numbering the enemy. I do want a good even match; hopefully the Fleet I joined will be make preparations to have good fleet battles. However in the mean time the join any game should be for the match type selected. Too bad Cryptic couldnt have dedicated servers with matches going on if there are players or not. But then again that might lead to a lot of other problems.
I was slightly mistaken.
The join any queue, if I am correct, puts you on a team to balance a match (i.e. an in-progress match needs another person).
Still - the queues could be condensed to allow for more map variety overall (as they rotate) and less down time (as there'd be fewer matches need to run).
I started off really simple when I took my first stab at the interface options. It was pretty but a little daft at first.
Fortunately, the community was there to suggest new ideas, give feedback, and get this baby shining. Without their comments and ideas, I couldn't have made it look so goods. Great job community!
The good news is that the developers have looked at it and that it's being *potentially* considered down the road (i.e. not right now), according to the last PM I got.
It might be nice to have the ability to randomize one or all of the options or just have a first available option that would throw you into a random map. just hop in and play. simple......right...lol
The chat box is definitely interesting. There is a lot that you can do with it. In addition to a main pvp channel, you could have channels for each queue so you can talk to the other people you will be playing with. Expanding [tag] commands to PvP functions does have merit, and one nice thing would be a [stats] tag that could display things like one's win/loss, average damage and healing, kill/death ratio, and perhaps a general performance rating. This could go a ways to making PvP feel more competitive, and give players another reason to play: to improve their PvP stats.
There is a PvP channel? What is it called so I can add it to my channels?
BTW Darren_Kitlor, this is excellent work. I would really like to see this in game.
It might be nice to have the ability to randomize one or all of the options or just have a first available option that would throw you into a random map. just hop in and play. simple......right...lol
It's a good idea. In fact, the join any button was meant to be that solution (instead of just ANY queue it'd be a random one needing players). I think we were trying to address this pages back.
Instead of just a random instance (since some options might be empty), you'd join any instance needing more player.
There is a PvP channel? What is it called so I can add it to my channels?
BTW Darren_Kitlor, this is excellent work. I would really like to see this in game.
You can add a channel called PvP anytime.
However, this would make that channel "official" and also easier to use (instead of having one tab in the lower left cluttered with Dabo, Help, TTS, Fleet, Zone, and Local chatter).
When Darren started this thread, he hit the problem square on the head. PvP encounters are based on level bands, factions, and scenarios. As more factions and scenarios are added (highly desirable for variety), with a non-growing subscriber base, the "dilution" makes it more difficult to get a PvP encounter (highly undesirable).
While I like Darren's "sexier" vision of the modified interface. I don't see how it resolves the underlying problem.
It almost seems that the interface should focus first on indicating you want a PvP encounter, and once there are enough players that match the minimum criteria (e.g., level banding) then perhaps the players decide/vote on the type of the encounter (although folks that didn't like the vote result might drop).
Ideally though, I suspect a new solution has to be found overall. Something out of the box (like when you log in each character (based on level and faction) shows a PvP "wait-time" indicator, or active special events that character is qualified for).
Comments
Part in parcel is dstahl saying the drag-down arrow to get to PvP should be brought to the foreground.
There are some players who still think you actually have to travel to Eti Eridani to do any PvP (even C&H or arena combat). That's the first sign that there's a problem with the interface. :rolleyes:
Of course, there is still a chance of user error... but isn't there always?
Team: Where'd you go? We almost have Sulu in the corner.
Player: I'm in Ker'rat. 150 thousand light years away. Sorry.
This is another great thread that shows cryptic almost exactly where they need to go with arenas. Awesome work
But, that said, four things jumped out at me regarding the public version:
But it's pretty!
1) It'd scale better for new factions than the current system (imagine if every permutation of Fv... were listed for just C&H, large, and small - there are 4 right now, Romulans would add another 2, Cardassians add another two). This system would eventually "shrink" icons for new factions to save space. I enlarged it to make everything clear. 3x1 assortment of factions becomes 2x3 (supports 6 factions). We've fit three factions with every current permutation of modes/location in less space that the current list.
This is more progressive than making an already long list longer.
2) See #1. Reduce icons in half - either forming a 2x3 or 2x4 than our current one-list-fits all. That'd scale up to 6 to 8 public queue types.
3) Multiple queues could be handled with multiple queue tabs at the bottom. Keep in mind that integrated global chat and condensing all similar maps should reduce the need for multiple queues - which are two of the biggest draws to this design.
I made the buttons oversize for a number of reasons:
Expect any updates on my part to be sparse till then.
Also, there are a few graphical quirks on some of the menus that are bugging me (i.e. tournment's filter options are in one box, private's filter options are in two).
Assuming this idea wouldn't require a complete overhaul of the STO server structure or something, the only real downside, as far as I can see, is that there would be no real way to get an accurate figure for 'people waiting in the queue' for each individual match, but I would imagine this would be more than offest by encouraging PvP by allowing those who aren't particularly choosy about what PvP they do to essentially queue for a lot of different matches at once, and join the first that pops, rather than have to try to guess which will pop first by the number of people waiting.
I'll go bad and add an any button (as alternative layout). Keep in mind that the maps are condensed into broad topics. All space arenas (cracked, solar, briar) are together.
What are you talking about, man?
I'd have no objections to getting automatically placed into a PVP match after queuing. Let's say you are at that boss fight; suddenly you queue for PVP? You get what you ask for, lol.
By the way, very nice queue interface. Simple and clean.
Thanks for posting this and providing a decent graphic to get Cryptic's attention. Appears to have worked ;D
I started with a few ideas of my own but it was ultimately they who provided the feedback to make it as polished as it is now.
I suggested this to dstahl but I'm afraid the current system would stick you in every queue (breaking the ones you don't join) rather than the one most likely to fill.
You see I was under the assumption that join any was for that one type of map match, not everything. I do agree that if I hit the join any in the current way it is done, should be changed. There have been lots of times that I joined a match to be either out numbered or out numbering the enemy. I do want a good even match; hopefully the Fleet I joined will be make preparations to have good fleet battles. However in the mean time the join any game should be for the match type selected. Too bad Cryptic couldnt have dedicated servers with matches going on if there are players or not. But then again that might lead to a lot of other problems.
I was slightly mistaken.
The join any queue, if I am correct, puts you on a team to balance a match (i.e. an in-progress match needs another person).
Still - the queues could be condensed to allow for more map variety overall (as they rotate) and less down time (as there'd be fewer matches need to run).
A lot of the cool, little details actually came from the community (not just me). They share the credit: I just provided my photoshopping skills.
I also hope that Cryptic has plans to eventually greatly expand on the PvP/FvF in this game.
I hope so too.
The thread has been passed onto the developers. However, * if * it happened, it wouldn't be overnight.
It's a good thing the community came together and provided the feedback that both premades and pugs could enjoy - with a touch of some Photoshoppin'.
Streamlining both interfaces could go a long ways to improve the PvP experience and prepping it for future development.
This is brilliant!!!
I started off really simple when I took my first stab at the interface options. It was pretty but a little daft at first.
Fortunately, the community was there to suggest new ideas, give feedback, and get this baby shining. Without their comments and ideas, I couldn't have made it look so goods. Great job community!
The good news is that the developers have looked at it and that it's being *potentially* considered down the road (i.e. not right now), according to the last PM I got.
There is a PvP channel? What is it called so I can add it to my channels?
BTW Darren_Kitlor, this is excellent work. I would really like to see this in game.
Instead of just a random instance (since some options might be empty), you'd join any instance needing more player.
You can add a channel called PvP anytime.
However, this would make that channel "official" and also easier to use (instead of having one tab in the lower left cluttered with Dabo, Help, TTS, Fleet, Zone, and Local chatter).
Check them out:
( --| Click here to see Private Match Interface Overhaul |-- )
( --| Click to see the Tournament Creation Menu |-- )
While I like Darren's "sexier" vision of the modified interface. I don't see how it resolves the underlying problem.
It almost seems that the interface should focus first on indicating you want a PvP encounter, and once there are enough players that match the minimum criteria (e.g., level banding) then perhaps the players decide/vote on the type of the encounter (although folks that didn't like the vote result might drop).
Ideally though, I suspect a new solution has to be found overall. Something out of the box (like when you log in each character (based on level and faction) shows a PvP "wait-time" indicator, or active special events that character is qualified for).