test content
  • Games
  • Social
  • Arc News
  • Support
  • Zen
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Forums > Home› Feedback› Klingon Discussion

POLL: Klingon Rank Structure Display Language.

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited October 2010 in Klingon Discussion
PLEASE CLICK HERE TO VOTE!

Greetings Klingons,

I have a question for all of you!


Question:

Which Language would you like the Klingon Rank Structure in Star Trek Online to be displayed in?
  1. The Klingon Language.

  2. The Players First Language.

Please Note:
  • You can click HERE to see the Klingon Rank Structure in the Klingon Language!

  • You can click HERE to view the translations of the ranks.
Qapla'
Post edited by Unknown User on
«1

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Are u kidding me?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    No I am not kidding, thank you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    1. Klingon Language

    And I'm not kidding either. Nor whining, just for clarification...
    :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    PLEASE VOTE HERE!
    MarkStone wrote: »
    1. Klingon Language

    Please click on the link provided at the top of the OP, and I'm sorry if I did not make it clear that you are able to vote.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    This post is here to counter anyone’s argument who thinks that players would not know what rank they are if the ranks for the Klingon Faction are converted into the Klingon Language.
    1. Players can look it up somewhere like here which may be fun for some players to do a little research on the Klingon Culture.

    2. Alternatively, the Devs could implement a tool tip that displays the rank name in English or the players first language, when the player hovers their mouse over the rank.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Since most of the fans aren't hardcore and don't speak Klingon I'd just as soon see it in First Language, but there could be an option to turn on Klingon if the person wanted. Also, we'd need to be careful what where the Klingon words came from. CBS might now own the rights to many of those names and using them might require royalties be paid.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    Since most of the fans aren't hardcore and don't speak Klingon I'd just as soon see it in First Language, but there could be an option to turn on Klingon if the person wanted. Also, we'd need to be careful what where the Klingon words came from. CBS might now own the rights to many of those names and using them might require royalties be paid.

    That's great feedback Cosmic_One, right now though, this is simply a fun thread to establish how many Klingon players who use the forums would like to have the Klingon Rank Structure Displayed in the Klingon Language.

    Also, I specifically typed up my last post to answer the question, what if a player does not know which rank they are?

    I do like your idea for the language display of the ranks to be optional, that is a really great suggestion.

    As for the law, I have no idea what so ever about that, all I know is that the community member qurgh posted the translations for me in this post, and he stated that the rank names come from a book called Klingon for the Galactic Traveller.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Alecto wrote: »
    As for the law, I have no idea what so ever about that, all I know is that the community member qurgh posted the translations for me in this post, and he stated that the rank names come from a book called Klingon for the Galactic Traveller.[/COLOR]
    Royalties are a massively tricky issue. Even some things that CBS/Paramount created for their shows require royalties. For example, Tom Paris was added to Voyager because they didn't want to play royalties to the writers who created Nicholas Locarno in TNG even though the same actor played them both. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    Tom Paris was added to Voyager because they didn't want to play royalties to the writers who created Nicholas Locarno in TNG even though the same actor played them both. :)

    I never knew that, thanks for sharing, and I was always curious about Robert Duncan McNeill playing two completely different character, after watching Masters of the Universe (1987) when I was a kid, I always thought he was realy cool to! LoL

    So on topic, basically what you're saying is if the Klingon Langauge was used in STO, royalties may or may not have to be paid to Marc Okrand right?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    First language - I've been playing Klingons for 15-20 years and never learned a word of the language.


    Where are teh Klingon emotes? {{:-(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    STObee wrote:
    First language - I've been playing Klingons for 15-20 years and never learned a word of the language.

    Here are the translations for you. :)
    Alecto wrote: »
    The following player rank titles should follow after the characters name and not come before the characters name, for example, Alecto HoD which translates to Captain Alecto.

    Enlisted Officer Titles:
    • mang (Solider - Troops at this level don't have ranks).
    • bu' (Sergeant).
    • Da' (Corporal).


    Commissioned Officer Titles:
    • ne' (Yeoman).
    • lagh (Ensign).
    • SoghHom (Lieutenant Junior Grade).
    • Sogh (Lieutenant).
    • la'Hom (Lieutenant Commander).
    • la' (Commander).
    • HoD (Captain).


    Flag Officer Titles:
    • 'ech (Brigadier).
    • totlh (Commodore).
    • Sa' (General).
    • 'aj (Admiral).
    • yo' 'aj (Fleet Admiral).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    STObee wrote:
    Where are teh Klingon emotes?

    If you look at this post, you will see that there are two Emote packs heading to the C-Store in the near future, if you would like specific emotes, you can suggest them in that same thread and if you like, you can also ask that the emotes you want should be for free.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    Royalties are a massively tricky issue. Even some things that CBS/Paramount created for their shows require royalties.

    I have sent a message to Simon & Schuster, Inc, the publisher of Marc Okrands books, to ask for details about royalties and received the following automated response.

    "Thank you for contacting SimonandSchuster.com. We will respond to your inquiry within 3 – 5 business days."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Nothing in the game that needs to be read as text would ever be in the Klingon language. Only graphics. Putting text into the game that only die-hard fans who speak Klingon could read would be one more step in driving the stake into the heart of STO's subscriber base. At a time when STO is struggling to keep up a subscriber base, this is the last thing we'd want for it to draw in more subscribers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I voted Klingon language because since beta I have found it odd that they can promote tweeting in Klingon but the game has many things in the Federatiojnh language and rank for the KDF. At the very least the ranks and all other items should show in Klingon when possible and then have a small item next to it in that green color for game facing content that will explain what it is in english or federation..

    it's probably too much work but this is what i would like.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Greetings cipher_nemo!

    In response to your post, all I have to say is that this is why I have allowed every player the option to vote in this thread, as every player has a difference of opinion, and just in case you missed it, there is also a Poll linked into the top of the OP, which every player is able to vote on, but just once.

    If you read posts #6 and #7, you will find counter arguments to your post that are just as valid, and I also pre-empted your argument, but thank you for your feedback.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Lucky_13_X wrote:
    Iit's probably too much work but this is what i would like.

    Thank you for your vote Lucky_13_X and btw, who cares if it's to much work for Cryptic right now, sure there are plenty of more important things to do, fix bugs, add more content etc, but this is simply a fun thread to see who would like the Klingon Rank Structure in the Klingon Language.

    However, you never know, Cryptic may listen if enough Klingon players want the rank names changed, and then Cryptic may change all the rank names in the future, or maybe give players the option to switch between languages, who knows, but my point is that having doubts about something like this is not worth it, just enjoy the discussion and hey if you are a player who really would like to have the Klingon language in the game, then just have faith!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    cipher_nemo wrote: »
    Nothing in the game that needs to be read as text would ever be in the Klingon language. Only graphics. Putting text into the game that only die-hard fans who speak Klingon could read would be one more step in driving the stake into the heart of STO's subscriber base. At a time when STO is struggling to keep up a subscriber base, this is the last thing we'd want for it to draw in more subscribers.

    This is totally false. There are already numerous references to the language throughout the game. The most obvious being the name of the Klingon homeworld:

    Qo'noS (Kronos)

    This was created by Okrand.

    Here's some more:

    Hegh'ta BOP (should be Heghta', but Hegh = death, -ta' = accomplished)
    QIn raptor (QIn = spear head)
    vo' quv carrier (vo' = emperor, quv = be honoured)
    pach raptor (pach = claw)
    norgh BOP (norgh = shark-like creature)
    qulDun BOP (qul = fire, Dun = be wonderful)
    Somraw raptor (Somraw = muscle)

    And that's just some of the ships. People seem to be dealing with those names without any issues. Why would ranks be all that different?

    A rank is just a word that determines a persons position within a structure, it doesn't matter what those words are as long as you know where you are on the sliding scale. The only reason we understand Starfleet ranks is because they are based on Human ones. If Gene had created whole new words (maybe Vulcan ranks) then we would be familiar with them and would understand them.

    I think the Klingon ranks should be in Klingon. People will very quickly figure them out, just as people figured out the names of the ships.

    If anything this will attract more fans who want a more Klingon experience.

    @STOBee: You've been in Klingon Fandom for 20 years and never learned a single word of Klingon? You don't know Qapla', Daqtagh (Dak'tagh), targh, betleH (batleth), tlhIngan (Klingon), ghargh (serpent worms), petaQ (petakh)? Every Klingon fans knows a few words in Klingon, simply watching the show does that. I would bet big money that every Star Trek fan on the planet knows at least one or two words of Klingon.
    Alecto wrote: »
    So on topic, basically what you're saying is if the Klingon Langauge was used in STO, royalties may or may not have to be paid to Marc Okrand right?

    I don't believe so. Rights for the language are (arguably) held by Paramount/CBS. Okrand get royalties from the books he wrote, but Paramount/CBS are free to use the language however they please. At least this is what Okrand told me at the qep'a' (Klingon Language Institutes conference) last year.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Alecto wrote: »
    PLEASE CLICK HERE TO VOTE!

    Greetings Klingons,

    I have a question for all of you!


    Question:

    Which Language would you like the Klingon Rank Structure in Star Trek Online to be displayed in?
    1. The Klingon Language.

    2. The Players First Language.

    Please Note:
    • You can click HERE to see the Klingon Rank Structure in the Klingon Language!

    • You can click HERE to view the translations of the ranks.
    Qapla'

    An interesting idea, and the role-player in me says to have things displayed in the Klingon language :p.

    However, while I could live either way, it would be nice if the inconsistencies in the rank structures' displayed were fixed (i.e. Lt Commander and Rear Admiral for the Federation are actually Sergent and Brigadier General for the Klingons respectively, however they are displayed one way in some instances and the other in others....)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Alecto wrote: »
    If you read posts #6 and #7, you will find counter arguments to your post that are just as valid, and I also pre-empted your argument, but thank you for your feedback.[/COLOR]

    There are ways to include the Klingon language without replacing text: images.

    But to appease both sides, a better solution would be to have an option in the UI that lets players toggle Klingon language for names on and off. We don't have to go to one extreme or another to achieve balance.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    qurgh wrote: »
    I don't believe so. Rights for the language are (arguably) held by Paramount/CBS. Okrand get royalties from the books he wrote, but Paramount/CBS are free to use the language however they please. At least this is what Okrand told me at the qep'a' (Klingon Language Institutes conference) last year.

    Well this sounds promising, but would it mean that Cryptic can use these Klingon words?

    I imagine that Cryptic can use them considering that they have already used a number of Klingon words in the game which you have previously covered.


    Sivar wrote: »
    An interesting idea, and the role-player in me says to have things displayed in the Klingon language :p.

    I'm happy you like the idea, I hope you voted, and I'm thinking I'll take advantage of this voting thing and use it in the last thread in my sig also. LoL

    Sivar wrote: »
    However, while I could live either way, it would be nice if the inconsistencies in the rank structures' displayed were fixed (i.e. Lt Commander and Rear Admiral for the Federation are actually Sergent and Brigadier General for the Klingons respectively, however they are displayed one way in some instances and the other in others....)

    I've been working on getting Cryptic to fix these issues since the 22nd of February, 2010, by using this thread and this thread, respectively, but still no replies.

    cipher_nemo wrote: »
    A better solution would be to have an option in the UI that lets players toggle Klingon language for names on and off. We don't have to go to one extreme or another to achieve balance.

    Indeed this would be a wonderful option to have in game, thank you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    cipher_nemo wrote: »
    There are ways to include the Klingon language without replacing text: images.

    But to appease both sides, a better solution would be to have an option in the UI that lets players toggle Klingon language for names on and off. We don't have to go to one extreme or another to achieve balance.

    As a programmer I'd have to disagree. Localization is done with text, not images. Strings are split out into separate language files. The program loads all these strings into an array and fetches the correct language strings as need be. Text is much smaller to store on disk than images, so this form of localization is the most efficient and commonplace in today's programming world.

    It's also easier to create the images on the fly from the localized text when needed in the application.

    I would love to see a Klingon language version of the game that I could switch to. It's unlikely to happen though, as it would only be useful for a handful of players. If Cryptic allowed that handful of players to translate it though, I would definably help in such an endeavor.

    Klingon ranks on the other hand would just add to the enjoyment and give the Klingon players the feeling that the Klingons aren't just Feds with different skins, that Cryptic really does want to make each Empire unique and special. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Well I didn't know you were a programmer qurgh, which is really cool, I've done very basic work with the Python programming language on Bridge Commander, but anyway, from the research I did in this thread, I found multiple errors (Click to View) in the Klingon Rank Structure and I really did feel like the Klingon Rank Structure was basically just a copy of the Fed Rank Structure with minimal edits, as well as mistakes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    qurgh wrote: »
    As a programmer I'd have to disagree. Localization is done with text, not images. Strings are split out into separate language files. The program loads all these strings into an array and fetches the correct language strings as need be. Text is much smaller to store on disk than images, so this form of localization is the most efficient and commonplace in today's programming world.

    First of all, I am a programmer as well. Visual Studio with C# and .NET managed code for both web and form/wpf apps. Second of all, you took what I said and extrapolated your own meaning beyond anything I mentioned. I was talking about having the Klingon ranks in Klingon for images (since that doesn't change), and keeping the rank text the same (with localization from whatever method they use).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    cipher_nemo wrote: »
    First of all, I am a programmer as well. Visual Studio with C# and .NET managed code for both web and form/wpf apps. Second of all, you took what I said and extrapolated your own meaning beyond anything I mentioned. I was talking about having the Klingon ranks in Klingon for images (since that doesn't change), and keeping the rank text the same (with localization from whatever method they use).

    This whole conversation is about changing the names of the Klingon ranks. These are strings within the game (up in the top left corner of the HUD). So we are talking about changing strings and you suddenly say we should do it with images. Hence the confusion and my reply.

    What are these "images" you speak of? I still don't understand what you are suggesting. Can you explain?

    As a programmer I do LAMP development mainly but I also have a couple of webOS apps out there.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Alecto wrote: »
    Here are the translations for you. :)

    Ah, after 15-20 years of not learning any Klingon why start now? I did look at your link, it's all Greek to me.


    Regarding the "Klingon emotes" I spoke of:

    a. The C-store emotes listed as coming are Federation emote packs. No emotes for Klingons! {{:-(

    b. I should have said Klingon "emoticons". {{:-o
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    STObee wrote:
    Ah, after 15-20 years of not learning any Klingon why start now? I did look at your link, it's all Greek to me. :cool:

    Because it's a core concept of what being a Klingon is! {{:-D

    From John Ford's komerex klinzhai (the structure that grows) to Okrand's mataHmeH maSachnIS (To survive we must expand). It's been embedded in Klingon culture since the very beginning. We must strive to the best Klingon we can be!

    This will be my 17th year in Klingon fandom (KAG Demonfleet/Cold Steel Quadrant) and I'm still learning new things. tlhIngan jIH!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    As much as I like the idea, what good will this poll do OP since it's not even an official Cryptic poll? They will not even see this poll.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    qurgh wrote: »
    So we are talking about changing strings and you suddenly say we should do it with images. Hence the confusion and my reply.

    What are these "images" you speak of? I still don't understand what you are suggesting. Can you explain?

    Nope, you're extrapolating more than I said.

    I mentioned that for aesthetics to please those wanting Klingon names for ranks. Images can be displayed anywhere in the UI, just as ship images are now displayed in the inventory/status panel for aesthetics. Rank in the form of text doesn't need to have anything to do with images.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    qurgh wrote: »
    Because it's a core concept of what being a Klingon is! {{:-D

    From John Ford's komerex klinzhai (the structure that grows) to Okrand's mataHmeH maSachnIS (To survive we must expand). It's been embedded in Klingon culture since the very beginning. We must strive to the best Klingon we can be!

    This will be my 17th year in Klingon fandom (KAG Demonfleet/Cold Steel Quadrant) and I'm still learning new things. tlhIngan jIH!


    You see STO as more of a role playing opportunity than I and you obviously take your role playing seriously. As a wargamer (that has enjoyed role playing games) I look at STO very differently. When I play a wargame as the Imperial Japanese Navy or the Red Army I don't attempt to learn Japanese or Russian, I study how they fought battles, how they used the tools available. Yes, "getting your Klingon on" can be useful in STO, but immersion to the point of reading Klingon is not my way to do that.

    For example I'm in favor of having signs in the Great Hall showing the way to personnel, the bank, etc. But they need to be in a language I can read or they are of no use. Perhaps, because of the recent acquisition of Gorn, Orion and Nausican captains, the signs could be be graphics instead of text.

    Signs (and displays of Klingon rank) are a very low priority for me, under the nice to have category. There are probably 100 things higher on my list - things like bug fixes, shoes, female Gorns and ships. Fixing PvP queues and adding open PvP are at the top (I'm a wargamer Jim, not a role player).

    For a person such as yourself wanting a more immersive Klingon STO experience those signs and insignia are probably much higher priority.
Sign In or Register to comment.