When did they change the Klingon Moto from "Its a good day to die!" to "whine whine whine and cry"?
I play a Klingon let me tell you even if hes the only one he still has honor and will fight to the finish :eek:
OK.. so we Klingons didnt get much in the way of low/mid/high tier pve.. *chuckles* to be perfectly honest, I just expected to get the T2 ship (not that i'll use it - given my lvl).. Like lots of people have said.. we aint that old as far as mmo's go. Given enough time the factions will be fleshed out to pander to the non pvp crowd.
But honestly I'd expect the ratio of high quality Klingon pvp players would drop considerably as the influx of bored fed pve players take up the Klingon torch 8) making pug pvp groups suc *winks*
While I can empathize with your position that the KDF is getting second-rate treatment, I find the defeatist attitude of the vocal minority to be rather melodramatic. Did you really sign up to be a Klingon because you wanted pretty faces and extra races? Because you expected more to the "PvP-centric faction" than PvP?
From where I stand, the Klingon empire is delivering the content I want just fine. Short PvP queues, adequate character advancement, and access to major endgame content as is it released (currently STFs). I don't harbor any delusions that a company in triage mode ISN'T going to do what benefits the most players first. Do you have some odd sense of entitlement that leads you to believe otherwise?
PvP is the soul of the Klingon game. That Klingons receive equal access to major new PvE content (STFs at release) is simply a welcome bonus. As long as the PvP experience itself gets attention and upgrades in due time, and Klingon access to it remains adequate, I believe I will continue to find it sufficient. If it does not, I will adapt or depart.
When it comes down to it, you have the same options. If you really feel so compelled to make a big preachy deal of the issue, then at least have some concrete demands. What IS it that you want, specifically, that Cryptic can provide in a resource-efficient manner? If it is Klingon-specific, how would you justify the allocation of writers, designers, and coders to a project that only perhaps 15% of the playerbase will ever see?
Either way, enough with the sensationalism and whining. I've seen perfectly decent posts from several of you, so I know you're capable of making them. This pitiful cry for attention, however, is not one of them.
LOOOONNNNNGGGGG winded rant from some one that has never played a Klink.
Our pvp vendors have been broken since CLOSED BETA! Thats pretty big deal for a "PvP-centric faction" isn't?
As you so thoroughly pointed out we are a pvp based faction and have no pve mission reward goodies. If you want a BG (Thats The klink RA) shield or console you gotta use the exchange, and i think it is fixed now but when i started we where also unable to buy our kits.
Please don't talk if you have no idea whats going on.
Bg pvp vendor will remain broken after 45 day patch, as it still isn't fixed. And t2 cruiser you expect so much.. is just plain copy-paste of fed t2 cruiser + rename. No real point taking it since both bop and raptor have more firepower while survival is not an issue at all low tiers.
But this is not how it was meant to be, Klingon were supposed to be PVE and PVP, over and over it has been mentioned that if enough people want PVE they will implement it Also they cut the
PVE as they were close to release Wil lcut and paste what im refering to:
STO.nl: Just last week it was announced that the Klingons are more of an additional advancement path for players looking for PvP combat and that they will not have access to any robust PvE content. Can you explain why this decision was made?
Craig: There are tough decisions that have to be made when you get close to launch.* We felt that other parts of the game would have lacked if we tried to hurry along the PvE portion for Klingons.* If the community really wants more PvE content for Klingons then it is something we will definitely look at adding in after launch.* That is the nice thing about MMOs is that they are constant work in progress and you can add things in that you couldnt fit in at launch.
When i played federation have missions and purpose, when you play klingon all you do is get pvp missions, at a extremely low rank. You get track down the single contact mission. Frankly they should have never released the Klingon Faction until they finnished it. There is so much to do with klingons, but they have done so little with them. I fear they may be trying to apease the Federation Admirals screaming for more end game content. Just a guess seems reasonable.
My whole fleet (ok only 7 of us ;p ) have all now cancelled subs. We have leveled both Feds and Klinks, with Klinks being our side of choice. While we were happy to wait for the fabled 45 day patch even tho content was really poor for tier5, this patch is just not going to cut it. Nurfs to help Feds in PvP and then no decent content to play around with in PvE..
Well... looks like the 45 day patch is giving a bit of fluff for both sides and thats about it, there does not seem to be anything that makes you look at it and think "wow gonna go play that right now!" which is a shame.. but not to fix (so far on trib) the PvP NPC's so people can buy badge rewards for the right levels! seems very wrong.
To be fair I did enjoy the ship combat as it looks good. The problem is looks dont last for long and this game has a very small amount of content for a 2/3 hour a day gamer to do.
May be back in a few months.. but is there any point coming back to try other factions? can only see them getting nurfed / becoming end game content for the Feds, the same way the Klink's are being forced to now.
There are probably a great many things mechanicaly and cosmetically that did and do need fixing in the game and for the "little" things Cryptic yes does seem to be addressing those.
And their art department does seem to be going with a fine tooth comb on little inconsistancies in the game (Plants poking through the walls in Adm Quinns office).
And yes PERHAPS carriers needed to be toned down a little with the swapping of the bays etc etc.
BUT.....
(I shall try and do this without a self righteous indignation or as Feds call it whining)
It seems to me that their priorities are a little on the weak side or perhaps a better way to describe it is they seem a little (lot) insensitive to the urgency or critical nature of things, and a misguided or flawed methodology of cause and effect.
Allow me to explain...
Like the above examples of the carrier or even the cloak nerf (whether ir was a big bat or small), the consequences of such actions without looking at cause and effect. The klingon faction (for whatever reason - good or bad) is lacking. The biggest thing is the faction is outnumbered by no less than 4 or 5 to one (if not greater but I was being conservative). The lack of content being the driving factor. Regardless of why they made the decisions they did, the fallout has shown it wasnt the best decision for the overall welfare of the game to make. Hmm I seem to be rambling, in nerfing the carrier and toning (PC way of saying nerf) down the cloak, turrets AND cannons with the power usages, they have impacted the klingon faction to the left to A great deal and far more than any left impact to the Federation. But there was little to NO counter balance to these on the right. Peeps in the Federation received quite a bit of goods things (for them - as its all relative), new abilities, couple new races, uniforms, fleet action quests etc, nothing earth shaking but pretty much more on the right than any negative on the left. They didnt start out in the same light as the Klingon Faction has. They started out already with far more and in a better place than the KDF. With already so many negatives against the KDF side, they just got handed a few MORE with very little on the plus.
I think it might have been a better model to hand out more to the KDF on the right with goodies BEFORE hitting them with some nerf bats. The nerfs with little to no goodies to on the right made what seems like a bad situation even worse. It makes it appear (even if it isnt Cryptics intention to appear this way) like they are picking on a already hurt dog. The consequences of course (again doesnt matter if they are right or wrong consequences) is that more peeps will quit the KDF making the bad situation ever worse till it reaches a critical mass and the whole house comes falling down.
Ok Feds, remember that regardless that you may not like the carriers, you may not like battle cloak, you may not like our cannons and turrets, you on your end of the game have a FAR better experience, equipment, playability and overall more complete game, not to mention a HUGE disparity in your favor in terms of population. Whats it matter if the KDF has a few things you dont when you outnumber us to the degree you presently do?? How about before calling upon Cryptic to nerf the KDF, you first get behind them to fix the vast things wrong with the KDF. As the population then begins to recover, they can look at some of the internal KDF balance issues when it comes to equipment used (ie carriers cloak etc etc)
Nerfing the Klingons further without the MAJOR overhaul they need to fix them, only discourages their growth in a time when it is JUST growth the KDF so badly needs.
Its a question of cause and effect.
If the KDF got the things it so desperatly needed to grow, then the nerfs (that may or may not be needed - whole different debate) would not carry the death dealing damage that they will at this present time. Though the bat used may be the same size no matter when they used it, using it against a sick chihuaha(sp?) does far more damage to that dog than the same size bat used on a healthy Mastiff...just using analogies here to paint the point.
It is my opinion that Cryptic 1) needs to reverse the nerfs (for the time being) - (or at least look at them further and nerf things perhaps a little at a time not as drastic at once as they have - ie Carrier, 2) Devote some serious rescources to fixing the KDF and promote its growth. 3)Communicate with the KDF faction/Players a little more on their intentions and plans both short term and long with some tenative timelines, nothing in stone but a ball park area.
Then after the growth begins and the death spiral stops, we can go back and look a little harder at toning down some of their abilities.
But simply making them weaker in their already incredibly weakened and sickly state only further mangifies the situation.
It is these issues that I think Cryptic has been less than stellar at. I hope thats not too inflammatory.
Klingons need the PVE to grow, we can talk about rescources, time out of the gate (release) and a lot of other reasons/excuses on why they havent doen so till we are blue in the face (no offense to the Bolians). But those don't change the waters we presently find ourselves adrift in. The KDF is dying. And if it does (or shrinks to such a state as to not be a viable faction anymore, the game will suffer because of it. It is probably and very arguably in my opinion the single biggest danger facing STO right now and it appears to me that Cryptic isnt seeing this in the same critical light that perhaps they should be. That perhaps they see a small flame in the ash tray where I think its more like the house is catching on fire. Extreme analogy I know, but you get the idea or the picture.
I would like to see them fix this.....I want desperately for this game to be as full and as rich and as successfull as any we have ever seen. Right now...if you will allow a further analogy, it seems the rowers arent aware of the sharks in the water, or at least they arent aware of just HOW MANY sharks there really are might be a better pic.
Just my thoughts, I hope this hasnt been a flame post as I really have tried to be as constructive as I could.
Well I was told I was being self righteous with indignation by some fed, and thought well..perhaps I was, so I tried to do it the **cough-diplomatic-couph** way lol
But no..I figured a rant, if it WAS ever read by Cryptic, would just get tossed. I have no illusions about a response from them, but I can dream right? lol
The fleets have been asked to look into this. Please talk to your fleet leadership. SOMEONE needs to speak for the Klingon Faction while there still is one.
Had the Klingon Empire been created as a friendly government of the federation, Klingon players having access to all pve content and the ability to party with fed members, the situation would be so much better. Yes, we would not have pvp content at launch, but the way I see it Cryptic bit off more then it can chew and the game is suffering hardcore for it.
Announce a treaty, Cryptic. Add wargames to keep the battlegrounds you have now rolling. Then, take your time, and when ready, release the Romulans as a hostile faction that have its own fully fleshed out pve content.
I am content to take my time, and KDF faction will be ready when its ready. Game is hardly over a month old.
I don't want to be rude, and while I do sympathize with those who want the KDF side to be just like the Fed side right now, it won't be. I'd say it won't be close for a year. We'll get a tidbit here and a tad bit there.
I suggest if you can't wait, your going to make yourself and every around you unhappy, and you should probably find something else to play for the time being. I know that's a harsh sound to a Trekkie, but fact is fact.
I don't want to see people go, but I am so tired of hearing people complain that I'd be happy as the sole surviving BOP in a world of Feds.
Comments
I play a Klingon let me tell you even if hes the only one he still has honor and will fight to the finish :eek:
But honestly I'd expect the ratio of high quality Klingon pvp players would drop considerably as the influx of bored fed pve players take up the Klingon torch 8) making pug pvp groups suc *winks*
my 2c o7
LOOOONNNNNGGGGG winded rant from some one that has never played a Klink.
Our pvp vendors have been broken since CLOSED BETA! Thats pretty big deal for a "PvP-centric faction" isn't?
As you so thoroughly pointed out we are a pvp based faction and have no pve mission reward goodies. If you want a BG (Thats The klink RA) shield or console you gotta use the exchange, and i think it is fixed now but when i started we where also unable to buy our kits.
Please don't talk if you have no idea whats going on.
Bg pvp vendor will remain broken after 45 day patch, as it still isn't fixed. And t2 cruiser you expect so much.. is just plain copy-paste of fed t2 cruiser + rename. No real point taking it since both bop and raptor have more firepower while survival is not an issue at all low tiers.
PVE as they were close to release Wil lcut and paste what im refering to:
STO.nl: Just last week it was announced that the Klingons are more of an additional advancement path for players looking for PvP combat and that they will not have access to any robust PvE content. Can you explain why this decision was made?
Craig: There are tough decisions that have to be made when you get close to launch.* We felt that other parts of the game would have lacked if we tried to hurry along the PvE portion for Klingons.* If the community really wants more PvE content for Klingons then it is something we will definitely look at adding in after launch.* That is the nice thing about MMOs is that they are constant work in progress and you can add things in that you couldnt fit in at launch.
And link for the article is:
http://www.startrekonline.nl/sto-nl-interview-met-craig-zinkievich-klingons/
Well... looks like the 45 day patch is giving a bit of fluff for both sides and thats about it, there does not seem to be anything that makes you look at it and think "wow gonna go play that right now!" which is a shame.. but not to fix (so far on trib) the PvP NPC's so people can buy badge rewards for the right levels! seems very wrong.
To be fair I did enjoy the ship combat as it looks good. The problem is looks dont last for long and this game has a very small amount of content for a 2/3 hour a day gamer to do.
May be back in a few months.. but is there any point coming back to try other factions? can only see them getting nurfed / becoming end game content for the Feds, the same way the Klink's are being forced to now.
And their art department does seem to be going with a fine tooth comb on little inconsistancies in the game (Plants poking through the walls in Adm Quinns office).
And yes PERHAPS carriers needed to be toned down a little with the swapping of the bays etc etc.
BUT.....
(I shall try and do this without a self righteous indignation or as Feds call it whining)
It seems to me that their priorities are a little on the weak side or perhaps a better way to describe it is they seem a little (lot) insensitive to the urgency or critical nature of things, and a misguided or flawed methodology of cause and effect.
Allow me to explain...
Like the above examples of the carrier or even the cloak nerf (whether ir was a big bat or small), the consequences of such actions without looking at cause and effect. The klingon faction (for whatever reason - good or bad) is lacking. The biggest thing is the faction is outnumbered by no less than 4 or 5 to one (if not greater but I was being conservative). The lack of content being the driving factor. Regardless of why they made the decisions they did, the fallout has shown it wasnt the best decision for the overall welfare of the game to make. Hmm I seem to be rambling, in nerfing the carrier and toning (PC way of saying nerf) down the cloak, turrets AND cannons with the power usages, they have impacted the klingon faction to the left to A great deal and far more than any left impact to the Federation. But there was little to NO counter balance to these on the right. Peeps in the Federation received quite a bit of goods things (for them - as its all relative), new abilities, couple new races, uniforms, fleet action quests etc, nothing earth shaking but pretty much more on the right than any negative on the left. They didnt start out in the same light as the Klingon Faction has. They started out already with far more and in a better place than the KDF. With already so many negatives against the KDF side, they just got handed a few MORE with very little on the plus.
I think it might have been a better model to hand out more to the KDF on the right with goodies BEFORE hitting them with some nerf bats. The nerfs with little to no goodies to on the right made what seems like a bad situation even worse. It makes it appear (even if it isnt Cryptics intention to appear this way) like they are picking on a already hurt dog. The consequences of course (again doesnt matter if they are right or wrong consequences) is that more peeps will quit the KDF making the bad situation ever worse till it reaches a critical mass and the whole house comes falling down.
Ok Feds, remember that regardless that you may not like the carriers, you may not like battle cloak, you may not like our cannons and turrets, you on your end of the game have a FAR better experience, equipment, playability and overall more complete game, not to mention a HUGE disparity in your favor in terms of population. Whats it matter if the KDF has a few things you dont when you outnumber us to the degree you presently do?? How about before calling upon Cryptic to nerf the KDF, you first get behind them to fix the vast things wrong with the KDF. As the population then begins to recover, they can look at some of the internal KDF balance issues when it comes to equipment used (ie carriers cloak etc etc)
Nerfing the Klingons further without the MAJOR overhaul they need to fix them, only discourages their growth in a time when it is JUST growth the KDF so badly needs.
Its a question of cause and effect.
If the KDF got the things it so desperatly needed to grow, then the nerfs (that may or may not be needed - whole different debate) would not carry the death dealing damage that they will at this present time. Though the bat used may be the same size no matter when they used it, using it against a sick chihuaha(sp?) does far more damage to that dog than the same size bat used on a healthy Mastiff...just using analogies here to paint the point.
It is my opinion that Cryptic 1) needs to reverse the nerfs (for the time being) - (or at least look at them further and nerf things perhaps a little at a time not as drastic at once as they have - ie Carrier, 2) Devote some serious rescources to fixing the KDF and promote its growth. 3)Communicate with the KDF faction/Players a little more on their intentions and plans both short term and long with some tenative timelines, nothing in stone but a ball park area.
Then after the growth begins and the death spiral stops, we can go back and look a little harder at toning down some of their abilities.
But simply making them weaker in their already incredibly weakened and sickly state only further mangifies the situation.
It is these issues that I think Cryptic has been less than stellar at. I hope thats not too inflammatory.
Klingons need the PVE to grow, we can talk about rescources, time out of the gate (release) and a lot of other reasons/excuses on why they havent doen so till we are blue in the face (no offense to the Bolians). But those don't change the waters we presently find ourselves adrift in. The KDF is dying. And if it does (or shrinks to such a state as to not be a viable faction anymore, the game will suffer because of it. It is probably and very arguably in my opinion the single biggest danger facing STO right now and it appears to me that Cryptic isnt seeing this in the same critical light that perhaps they should be. That perhaps they see a small flame in the ash tray where I think its more like the house is catching on fire. Extreme analogy I know, but you get the idea or the picture.
I would like to see them fix this.....I want desperately for this game to be as full and as rich and as successfull as any we have ever seen. Right now...if you will allow a further analogy, it seems the rowers arent aware of the sharks in the water, or at least they arent aware of just HOW MANY sharks there really are might be a better pic.
Just my thoughts, I hope this hasnt been a flame post as I really have tried to be as constructive as I could.
Some of us prefer to light our hair on fire.
We need to find whatever it takes to get Cryptic to LISTEN. The Klingon faction is quickly fading, the window is closing.
Where are the KLINGON emotes? {{:-(
But no..I figured a rant, if it WAS ever read by Cryptic, would just get tossed. I have no illusions about a response from them, but I can dream right? lol
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=2390805#post2390805
Announce a treaty, Cryptic. Add wargames to keep the battlegrounds you have now rolling. Then, take your time, and when ready, release the Romulans as a hostile faction that have its own fully fleshed out pve content.
I don't want to be rude, and while I do sympathize with those who want the KDF side to be just like the Fed side right now, it won't be. I'd say it won't be close for a year. We'll get a tidbit here and a tad bit there.
I suggest if you can't wait, your going to make yourself and every around you unhappy, and you should probably find something else to play for the time being. I know that's a harsh sound to a Trekkie, but fact is fact.
I don't want to see people go, but I am so tired of hearing people complain that I'd be happy as the sole surviving BOP in a world of Feds.