I do adapt my loadout based on how well the enemy team is playing. Let's see...
Defcon 5 ("Pants-on-head TRIBBLE")
* Bare fists (primary)
* Bat'leth (secondary, in case they suddenly organize a bit)
* Close Combat or Grenade Satchel tactical kit
Defcon 3 (usually a team that's doing a lot of holds or dome shields)
* Bat'leth (primary)
* Split beam rifle (secondary, for exploit and to blow up equipment)
* Squad Leader kit
Defcon 1 (amazing Fed team)
* Split beam (primary)
* Split beam (secondary)
* Security Protocol kit (better group buffs on this kit)
It's possible I've been underrating the Bat'leth, too. That melee guide says the bat'leth doesn't stun but I think it must because people don't fight back that much when we're all on them and the number of complaints about putting holds on people skyrocketed when we went all-bat'leth.
The 6 second standard melee stun ("3") is pretty ridiculous too. Maybe that's what's really doing it. I always try and mix that into my rotation, since it gives me a chance to land almost 2 full uninterrupted combos.
Most Fed PvP groups fall into roughly three catagories.
Group 1 is, sadly, as Slamz labels us, the pant-on-head-TRIBBLE group. That's actually probably giving us too much credit. I have had the .. pleasure ... of going into battle with 4 Feds against 9 Klingons and realizing -- slowly -- that not a single one of us had
an exploit weapon
a snare or hold
healing of any kind
(Literally, it was 3 eng turret spammers and a tactical officer with the grenade kit!) Needless to say, not only were we slaughtered, but some of the Klingons stood around and apperantly were having fun taking bets on how quickly we'd die.
This group is mostly only ever really done PVE and hasn't even thought about optimizing for PVP.
Group 2 is "sorta skilled" -- they understand that weapons malfunction is actually useful, that fuse armor comes in handy, and that maybe you should invest in some mines or make sure you have a pair of expose-exploit weapons rather than , say, a tribble. I suspect the varying amounts of difficulty this presents depends more on teamwork than actual "skills".
The last group, the "good team getting ugly" and better level, probably have spent time PVPing as Klingons.
If you want a real challenge try using bare fists against Feds, I assure you the majority of the Fed pugs are about as dangerous as Homeland Security's Threat Level Green or a rabid Shitsu. Heck even if we get to Threat level Orange our attack will never come, so just dally up and use your fists.
Klingons are overpowered in ground pvp, have you seen the damage they do with their gear? My split beam has base 199 damage and the klingon splitbeam has base 199 damage and they make this swirly wirly thing appear on me and then I take lots of damage and die, how do I defeat something like that? None of the NPCs did that, not even the Remans(hardest enemy in game).
I do adapt my loadout based on how well the enemy team is playing. Let's see...
Defcon 5 ("Pants-on-head TRIBBLE")
* Bare fists (primary)
* Bat'leth (secondary, in case they suddenly organize a bit)
* Close Combat or Grenade Satchel tactical kit
Defcon 3 (usually a team that's doing a lot of holds or dome shields)
* Bat'leth (primary)
* Split beam rifle (secondary, for exploit and to blow up equipment)
* Squad Leader kit
Defcon 1 (amazing Fed team)
* Split beam (primary)
* Split beam (secondary)
* Security Protocol kit (better group buffs on this kit)
It's possible I've been underrating the Bat'leth, too. That melee guide says the bat'leth doesn't stun but I think it must because people don't fight back that much when we're all on them and the number of complaints about putting holds on people skyrocketed when we went all-bat'leth.
The 6 second standard melee stun ("3") is pretty ridiculous too. Maybe that's what's really doing it. I always try and mix that into my rotation, since it gives me a chance to land almost 2 full uninterrupted combos.
Dude Klinks that were melee the TRIBBLE out of me last night and I couldnt get off my med tri 3 at all or my hypos unless I sprinted away(then getting flanked in the TRIBBLE is not always fun). I couldn't even cast my sonic pulses or anything. Melee was stunning me over and over. You just need one guy either fist or weapon butt knocking people around and then one running bat'leth.
Rifle butt them back. Remember that rifle butt stuns do not stack so after you stun one guy, move on to stun the next guy or use the chance to get some distance.
As science, you can also carry around a gravimetric kit for dealing with melee teams. Nothing screws up melee worse than gravimetric shift.
Stun pistol as your alt weapon is also great for getting distance on someone.
If you see someone meleeing your teammate, crouch and shoot him in the back, then run up and rifle butt him until he's stunned, then shoot him in the back some more.
The various science Holds are also good for countering melee.
If you need heals, use hypos. Available at any T1 ground vendor (cash). You can buy small hypos from your replicator but I'd suggest buying medium/large hypos from the vendor instead. I carry piles of the things all the time.
Dude Klinks that were melee the TRIBBLE out of me last night and I couldnt get off my med tri 3 at all or my hypos unless I sprinted away(then getting flanked in the TRIBBLE is not always fun). I couldn't even cast my sonic pulses or anything. Melee was stunning me over and over. You just need one guy either fist or weapon butt knocking people around and then one running bat'leth.
using melee makes things easier for the other team as a group, but it often doesn't make things any easier for the specific target we happen to be on at the time. the idea here is that it takes us longer to beat you down using melee, which gives your teammates more time to take us out.
in your situation, where you find yourself permanently chain-stunned, there might be little you can do except wait to die, then run back and make an effort to kill some of us while we're busy meleeing somebody *else*.
Even if you never PvP, expose + exploit is a fundamental part of ground PvE. How can anyone make it to admiral without realizing what it means or how to do it?
I think the issue is that because PvE ground combat is generally so easy, most Fed players don't have the habit of holding their exploit attack in reserve for when someone is exposed. They use it whenever it's available for the extra damage or the secondary effects. And then when someone is exposed, they're stuck waiting on the cooldown on their exploit attack to run down. I aslo rarely see Fed players in PvE groups using two weapons -- they just pick one and stick with it.
I can't lie -- I often do the same stuff in ground PvE. The only times I really find it useful (in that it saves time) to wait on my exploit attack is when facing a Terran Empire combat engineer (or some kind of mind-controlled Fed NPC engineer). With their shield heals, they can take forever to kill without exploits. But I know enough about PvP that I try to change my tactics accordingly. (Which doesn't mean I don't die most of the time, because you're only as good as the rest of the group.)
I think the issue is that because PvE ground combat is generally so easy, most Fed players don't have the habit of holding their exploit attack in reserve for when someone is exposed. They use it whenever it's available for the extra damage or the secondary effects. And then when someone is exposed, they're stuck waiting on the cooldown on their exploit attack to run down. I aslo rarely see Fed players in PvE groups using two weapons -- they just pick one and stick with it.
I can't lie -- I often do the same stuff in ground PvE. The only times I really find it useful (in that it saves time) to wait on my exploit attack is when facing a Terran Empire combat engineer (or some kind of mind-controlled Fed NPC engineer). With their shield heals, they can take forever to kill without exploits. But I know enough about PvP that I try to change my tactics accordingly. (Which doesn't mean I don't die most of the time, because you're only as good as the rest of the group.)
this irritates the TRIBBLE out of me... Being sci officer.. all my kit attacks bring up the exposes. I never use my expose attack unless there is more than one since is the split beam thingy. Because of the targeting.. I might miss one... so someone needs to pick me up lol...
As it is, it feels like engineering and tactical officers have the least number of useful abilities for ground pvp. Science officers really do rack up the exposes and have some of the most useful buffs/debuffs. I hope they nerf them a little bit, or make the other careers just as potent in their own rights. After all, how hard can it be to balance 3 classes....
I think the issue is that because PvE ground combat is generally so easy, most Fed players don't have the habit of holding their exploit attack in reserve for when someone is exposed
Not using secondary attacks because there isn't an expose is also a mistake. Those attacks add significant damage. I've beaten players or survived much longer than I should have, because they were too hesitant to use their secondary attacks. Shoot, I had a full team of 5 feds keep me stunned, knocked down, held for over 10 seconds without killing me when I was caught alone, cause they didn't want to fire without that expose (5 using secondary attacks on one target is instant death, so why wait 10 seconds).
The smart thing to do is frontload your exposes (however many you want to use on a particular target given the situation). If you get lucky, exploit. If not, burn down the target with your strong attacks. Your expose abilities have a cooldown anyway (well, aside from the ridiculous 3 attack), so might as well use that damaging secondary attack and let it's cooldown tick down while you wait for your expose attacks to return.
Not using that secondary attack is a huge damage loss. Sometimes you miss an exploit opportunity, but on a team, someone will usually have their exploit ready or almost ready.
As it is, it feels like engineering and tactical officers have the least number of useful abilities for ground pvp. Science officers really do rack up the exposes and have some of the most useful buffs/debuffs. I hope they nerf them a little bit, or make the other careers just as potent in their own rights. After all, how hard can it be to balance 3 classes....
I'm still leveling my engineer, but my tactical is Captain 9. For a while I felt like I made a bad choice going tactical because it seemed boring in ground combat and not so useful (and I love ground pvp). Tactical gets some great resistance buffs and debuffs and good damage buffs. Tactical is also more likely to invest skill points in those ground weapon skills which do have a large effect. Tactical isn't as shiny and noticeable as sci and eng, but they can put out a LOT of damage. When I'm playing my engineer, I keep feeling like I need to upgrade my weapon, but when I look at it, it's about the best I could have. There's just a big damage difference.
Comments
Defcon 5 ("Pants-on-head TRIBBLE")
* Bare fists (primary)
* Bat'leth (secondary, in case they suddenly organize a bit)
* Close Combat or Grenade Satchel tactical kit
Defcon 4 (default)
* Bat'leth (primary)
* Stun pistol (secondary, to stop squirrelly people)
* Squad Leader kit
Defcon 3 (usually a team that's doing a lot of holds or dome shields)
* Bat'leth (primary)
* Split beam rifle (secondary, for exploit and to blow up equipment)
* Squad Leader kit
Defcon 2 (good team, getting ugly)
* Split beam (primary)
* Split beam (secondary)
* Squad Leader kit
Defcon 1 (amazing Fed team)
* Split beam (primary)
* Split beam (secondary)
* Security Protocol kit (better group buffs on this kit)
It's possible I've been underrating the Bat'leth, too. That melee guide says the bat'leth doesn't stun but I think it must because people don't fight back that much when we're all on them and the number of complaints about putting holds on people skyrocketed when we went all-bat'leth.
The 6 second standard melee stun ("3") is pretty ridiculous too. Maybe that's what's really doing it. I always try and mix that into my rotation, since it gives me a chance to land almost 2 full uninterrupted combos.
Group 1 is, sadly, as Slamz labels us, the pant-on-head-TRIBBLE group. That's actually probably giving us too much credit. I have had the .. pleasure ... of going into battle with 4 Feds against 9 Klingons and realizing -- slowly -- that not a single one of us had
an exploit weapon
a snare or hold
healing of any kind
(Literally, it was 3 eng turret spammers and a tactical officer with the grenade kit!) Needless to say, not only were we slaughtered, but some of the Klingons stood around and apperantly were having fun taking bets on how quickly we'd die.
This group is mostly only ever really done PVE and hasn't even thought about optimizing for PVP.
Group 2 is "sorta skilled" -- they understand that weapons malfunction is actually useful, that fuse armor comes in handy, and that maybe you should invest in some mines or make sure you have a pair of expose-exploit weapons rather than , say, a tribble. I suspect the varying amounts of difficulty this presents depends more on teamwork than actual "skills".
The last group, the "good team getting ugly" and better level, probably have spent time PVPing as Klingons.
Dude Klinks that were melee the TRIBBLE out of me last night and I couldnt get off my med tri 3 at all or my hypos unless I sprinted away(then getting flanked in the TRIBBLE is not always fun). I couldn't even cast my sonic pulses or anything. Melee was stunning me over and over. You just need one guy either fist or weapon butt knocking people around and then one running bat'leth.
As science, you can also carry around a gravimetric kit for dealing with melee teams. Nothing screws up melee worse than gravimetric shift.
Stun pistol as your alt weapon is also great for getting distance on someone.
If you see someone meleeing your teammate, crouch and shoot him in the back, then run up and rifle butt him until he's stunned, then shoot him in the back some more.
The various science Holds are also good for countering melee.
If you need heals, use hypos. Available at any T1 ground vendor (cash). You can buy small hypos from your replicator but I'd suggest buying medium/large hypos from the vendor instead. I carry piles of the things all the time.
using melee makes things easier for the other team as a group, but it often doesn't make things any easier for the specific target we happen to be on at the time. the idea here is that it takes us longer to beat you down using melee, which gives your teammates more time to take us out.
in your situation, where you find yourself permanently chain-stunned, there might be little you can do except wait to die, then run back and make an effort to kill some of us while we're busy meleeing somebody *else*.
-ken
I can't lie -- I often do the same stuff in ground PvE. The only times I really find it useful (in that it saves time) to wait on my exploit attack is when facing a Terran Empire combat engineer (or some kind of mind-controlled Fed NPC engineer). With their shield heals, they can take forever to kill without exploits. But I know enough about PvP that I try to change my tactics accordingly. (Which doesn't mean I don't die most of the time, because you're only as good as the rest of the group.)
this irritates the TRIBBLE out of me... Being sci officer.. all my kit attacks bring up the exposes. I never use my expose attack unless there is more than one since is the split beam thingy. Because of the targeting.. I might miss one... so someone needs to pick me up lol...
Not using secondary attacks because there isn't an expose is also a mistake. Those attacks add significant damage. I've beaten players or survived much longer than I should have, because they were too hesitant to use their secondary attacks. Shoot, I had a full team of 5 feds keep me stunned, knocked down, held for over 10 seconds without killing me when I was caught alone, cause they didn't want to fire without that expose (5 using secondary attacks on one target is instant death, so why wait 10 seconds).
The smart thing to do is frontload your exposes (however many you want to use on a particular target given the situation). If you get lucky, exploit. If not, burn down the target with your strong attacks. Your expose abilities have a cooldown anyway (well, aside from the ridiculous 3 attack), so might as well use that damaging secondary attack and let it's cooldown tick down while you wait for your expose attacks to return.
Not using that secondary attack is a huge damage loss. Sometimes you miss an exploit opportunity, but on a team, someone will usually have their exploit ready or almost ready.
I'm still leveling my engineer, but my tactical is Captain 9. For a while I felt like I made a bad choice going tactical because it seemed boring in ground combat and not so useful (and I love ground pvp). Tactical gets some great resistance buffs and debuffs and good damage buffs. Tactical is also more likely to invest skill points in those ground weapon skills which do have a large effect. Tactical isn't as shiny and noticeable as sci and eng, but they can put out a LOT of damage. When I'm playing my engineer, I keep feeling like I need to upgrade my weapon, but when I look at it, it's about the best I could have. There's just a big damage difference.