I have been noticing... well I won't call it "racism," but a fair number of people being offensive in chat in the game. I joined a fleet battle on the first day of headstart in which someone was calling everyone "TRIBBLE." I asked him to stop, he said no, so I left. I've also seen people talking about the "fact" that "gingers have no souls," which I know is meant to be a joke that people find funny because of that one South Park episode (which I also find funny, don't get me wrong), but I'm a teacher (and a redhead), and I know that joking can turn to bullying very quickly. There has also been a fair bit of sexism displayed, both in game and here on the boards. It seems quite a few players of the male persuasion don't realize Star Trek isn't completely a boys club and feel it is ok to say derogatory things about women. This is something I hardly ever ran into in LotRO, possibly because it had a much larger female population. Even still, just because there are fewer women than men playing STO, doesn't mean that players shouldn't be expected to be respectful of everyone.
actually the simplest (and in complience with German law) solution is to add words banned in germany to the forum and chat filters.
there is a legal issue with certain words being displayed on German players computer screens and currently STOL is not in complience with those laws.
so at a minimum the word TRIBBLE and other forbidden words associated with nazisim and national socialisim have to be filtered for German players otherwise you risk your ability to do business there
Uh.. there are no "banned words" in Germany, we're not a facist state anymore you know. The only thing that is illegal in regards to national socialism is the swastika. And I don't think STO contains any :>
Personally, I'd have banned most of this thread in an abject lesson of how dimly semantic idiocy should be taken when dealing with things of this nature.
"It's not racism! Germans aren't a race!"
*banned*
And then just keep going until Darwin has managed to find and cultivate a rich vein of common sense and social decorum. The latter of which I don't have, but I'll be the last to go. Necessary evil.
Statment that Grmans aren't a race is one hundred percent correct! Germans are a NATION. As well as Polsih, English and Russian people. Dividing people in races leads to a discrimination. We can divide dogs into races... we shouldn't divide humans into races.. quite politically incorrect... And by the way - we shouldn's discriminate ANYONE but I understand people that makes fun of Germany for starting War... you know if you happen to come from for example Poland or you are a Jew... it's just really hard to forget all the fings that people suffered
am I the only one in this thread who is asking himself if some players did not know what they are playing?
HELLO!?! It's Star Trek, it's the federation, a union of planets, races, cultural backrounds, languages etc.
Here the OP is claiming about (in a very provocative way) that people cannot accept that he is speaking in his native language, which should be pretty normal for everybody (accepting it for sure ). I mean do the same people crying here for only speaking english ingame also claiming other people on the street speaking only the country language?
indeed, i was provocative with how i wrote what i wrote. But i am seriously reaching the limit of what i can and want to take. One example, just happened a little while ago:
Player 1: Ah, the germans, always a little bit different, and willing to kill you for it.
Player 2: Kill you for it? Im sure you mean kill jew for it.
Now, if anyone finds that even remotely amusing...i cant. And i feel offended.
And this is why i reacted angry. VERY angry. And insulting anyone for their heritage, or where they come from, to me is racism, no matter how you wanna call it to feel better.
There is in fact a german race. Americans may not have a race because they are a mix of everything, but they have a nationality. I am half german and half russian myself. I take pride in my bloodlines as anybody should. Note, I said have pride, not have a supremecist attitude. Supremecy is just wrong. Being told that I have no race is offensive to me. My nationality is Russian because I live in Russia. However, I am still German/Russian by blood which means I am a mix of both races. I know that the forums have a rule that all posts must be made in English so that the content can be monitored. I may understand this rule. In game chat is allowed to be in any language you choose. This rule should not be changes unless Cryptic plans to lose their entire foreign market other than the UK.
I can't believe this thread actually exists. I'm a fourth generation Scottish-American and many of my fellow clansmen take pride in learning and speaking Gaelic even though it is our second or third language (You know you are in California when the McDonalds employee is trilingual...) The ability to speak our own language was denied to us by the British government for so long(Was illegal to speak Gaelic until 1940s) that I've always been happy to hear the many spanish/hmong speakers in my hometown.
The idea that the German people are/are not a race is really up to the Germans. The Gaelic people (Ireland/Scotland/Wales) mostly consider themselves members of a Gaelic race that is not the same as the other European bloodlines, although similar.
My advice is to learn a few words of a non-English language yourself. It's fun and nothing beats the expression on that little kids face when you respond to his foreign language insult with a good string of Gaelic or especially Chinese.
I don't care if people chat in a language that I can't understand. I don't usually pay attention to what is going on in zone chat anyway. None of it is aimed at me, so why would someone think that a foreign language conversation is aimed at them? It's not like any person that would say "speak in English not German" would say to someone in zone chat speaking English that they can't talk about chocolate chip cookies.
It is rude and childish to tell a German, Italian, Dutch, French, or Russian speaking person to speak English.(any I missed please accept my apology) I have even heard some alien languages in zone chat, they use symbols and numbers and words like PST, LOL, and ROFLCOPTER.
I know quite a few European's that speak better English and use proper grammar better that I and many of my fellow American's, ok, they are mostly family. I guess it bugs me because my mother was born in The Netherlands and my Aunt owns a company in Frankfort, Germany and I would never ask them to speak English because it is rude even though I can understand a little Dutch.
good point, but giving Germans TRIBBLE is not racisim if it was you could sue the BBC into a hole in the ground for half of their comedy shows
<german tourist> "will you please stop talking about the war!
<Basil Fawlty> Well you started it
<German Tourist> No I didn't
<Basil Fawlty> Yes you did, you invaded Poland!
seriously, you need to tough it up, as you can see we Americans get TRIBBLE for our wars (you just gave us some) and I certainly dont consider it racist AS WE ARE BOTH WHITE!!!
yeah, history sucks, as does the actions of some of our ancestors, I can't say I'm proud of slavery or segrigation, both crimes of my country, but I dont yell racist when someone brings it up in either a humorous or mean context.
much as Germany would like to totally forget the war ever happened, the fact it it did, and you will hear about it for a long time to come, no matter how much of the national discussion is regulated and banned
You don't know jack or ****. The attitude toward Germans, and those of German ancestry is unacceptable. I was born in Germany, and grew up in the United States. My father was stationed there while in the mliitary, my mother was German, and I was born an American citizen. While in school I was preyed on by other kids, beaten, discriminated against by adults all because of my German ancestry. Called 'TRIBBLE', 'hitler', 'TRIBBLE', etc... Chased down and beaten. Blindsided repeatedly by these 'brave americans'. So, no, it's not acceptable by any measure. If I, and others are to be treated as if we are responsible for WWII simply on the basis of our ancestry then yes, it is considered racial, and is racism. Or you can call it nationalism, if you wish... but nationalism was what started that whole mess to begin with.
When someone tries to place the blame on you for slavery or segregation simply on the basis that you are white then that is also racism... you were not involved, it's not your problem that it happened, and there's no reason for you to inherit any of the blame.
It's just a form of blood libel, should not be tolerated, and should be stopped wherever it is found. Even in STO.
I helped a german only speaker find Ambassador Sokketh.
My reward for being nice was getting called a TRIBBLE. :rolleyes: ... Anti-TRIBBLE-TRIBBLE ... great
How ironic, in a game spawned by a television series that was groundbreaking and celebrated for its tearing down of racial / ethnic / nationalistic walls and enclaves.
To be honest ... I am a bit shocked to see the reactions concerning the opening post.
The op is, in my opinion, absolutely correct: Insulting somebody because they de not use English language is bad behaviour.
But ... starting huge discussions about the word 'racism' is plain and simple just ridiculous!
I think everybody understood what the op was trying to say. And I do not think that the topic is something people should make a joke of by starting discussions which are really off topic.
Especially because it should be clear that the op does not speak English as native language. Perfect behaviour flaming people for the use of wording in a post which they obviously wrote in a foreign language. This behaviour leads exactly to a situation the op complains about!
You do not like the word 'racism'? Change it to 'xenophobia' and you are exactly at the point the op is trying to explain.
And Cryptic ... sorry to say that but the issue is really a problem. In the last couple of days I saw loads of 'TRIBBLE scum', 'french moron', 'frenchy bast ard', 'TRIBBLE schwein' and other stuff in the chat.
do something about it.
the question is: What needs to be done? Banning all those mentally TRIBBLE idiots? Or perhaps using special channels which are automatically used if somebody switches the game language to Geman or French.
indeed, i was provocative with how i wrote what i wrote. But i am seriously reaching the limit of what i can and want to take. One example, just happened a little while ago:
Player 1: Ah, the germans, always a little bit different, and willing to kill you for it.
Player 2: Kill you for it? Im sure you mean kill jew for it.
Now, if anyone finds that even remotely amusing...i cant. And i feel offended.
And this is why i reacted angry. VERY angry. And insulting anyone for their heritage, or where they come from, to me is racism, no matter how you wanna call it to feel better.
Not even an apology for insulting my heritage? I don't care if you posted in anger or not. I am angry with your insulting and derogatory words toward Americans and I have not responded in kind. As far as I am concerned your forum account should already be suspended for it if not banned completely.
Where are the moderators on this? Why isn't this account suspended/banned already?
I find it funny how many immature and nitpicking comments are made about this.
It's a perfectly legitamite issue. And it does not matter weather its "racism" or not. Descriminating against any one for any reason is wrong.
And posting this comment is not descriminating against everyone on this forum as if it's implying that everyone is doing it, it is simply a very stern remind to those that are doing it, as it should be.
I for one will certainly be reporting anyone making comments like this.
Nothing but respect for someone who bothers to learn other languages, so far all the Brits I've met could speak English, and maybe insult someone's mother in another language, that was it
This somes me up, although i have a smattering of American....
Comments
simply ASK cryptic to create a German Language channel, ask the playerbase if they would prefer that?
then people wishing to converse in German can access the channel in game and do so.
there problem solved.
I used to place FFXI and get a PUG with the japanese, no conversation needed, just point and unload, Language is merely a barrier to be overcome
GIVING SOMEONE TRIBBLE FOR THIER NATIONAL HISTORY IS NOT RACISIM!
Uh.. there are no "banned words" in Germany, we're not a facist state anymore you know. The only thing that is illegal in regards to national socialism is the swastika. And I don't think STO contains any :>
China, Japan and in part the UK. Never the Germans.
Statment that Grmans aren't a race is one hundred percent correct! Germans are a NATION. As well as Polsih, English and Russian people. Dividing people in races leads to a discrimination. We can divide dogs into races... we shouldn't divide humans into races.. quite politically incorrect... And by the way - we shouldn's discriminate ANYONE but I understand people that makes fun of Germany for starting War... you know if you happen to come from for example Poland or you are a Jew... it's just really hard to forget all the fings that people suffered
lol wut
Ernst Haeckel would disagree.
And, thanks for making me into a liar. For real this time, no exceptions. I will leave this thread now.
am I the only one in this thread who is asking himself if some players did not know what they are playing?
HELLO!?! It's Star Trek, it's the federation, a union of planets, races, cultural backrounds, languages etc.
Here the OP is claiming about (in a very provocative way) that people cannot accept that he is speaking in his native language, which should be pretty normal for everybody (accepting it for sure
I tip my hat to you sir.
Player 1: Ah, the germans, always a little bit different, and willing to kill you for it.
Player 2: Kill you for it? Im sure you mean kill jew for it.
Now, if anyone finds that even remotely amusing...i cant. And i feel offended.
And this is why i reacted angry. VERY angry. And insulting anyone for their heritage, or where they come from, to me is racism, no matter how you wanna call it to feel better.
The idea that the German people are/are not a race is really up to the Germans. The Gaelic people (Ireland/Scotland/Wales) mostly consider themselves members of a Gaelic race that is not the same as the other European bloodlines, although similar.
My advice is to learn a few words of a non-English language yourself. It's fun and nothing beats the expression on that little kids face when you respond to his foreign language insult with a good string of Gaelic or especially Chinese.
T
It is rude and childish to tell a German, Italian, Dutch, French, or Russian speaking person to speak English.(any I missed please accept my apology) I have even heard some alien languages in zone chat, they use symbols and numbers and words like PST, LOL, and ROFLCOPTER.
I know quite a few European's that speak better English and use proper grammar better that I and many of my fellow American's, ok, they are mostly family. I guess it bugs me because my mother was born in The Netherlands and my Aunt owns a company in Frankfort, Germany and I would never ask them to speak English because it is rude even though I can understand a little Dutch.
You don't know jack or ****. The attitude toward Germans, and those of German ancestry is unacceptable. I was born in Germany, and grew up in the United States. My father was stationed there while in the mliitary, my mother was German, and I was born an American citizen. While in school I was preyed on by other kids, beaten, discriminated against by adults all because of my German ancestry. Called 'TRIBBLE', 'hitler', 'TRIBBLE', etc... Chased down and beaten. Blindsided repeatedly by these 'brave americans'. So, no, it's not acceptable by any measure. If I, and others are to be treated as if we are responsible for WWII simply on the basis of our ancestry then yes, it is considered racial, and is racism. Or you can call it nationalism, if you wish... but nationalism was what started that whole mess to begin with.
When someone tries to place the blame on you for slavery or segregation simply on the basis that you are white then that is also racism... you were not involved, it's not your problem that it happened, and there's no reason for you to inherit any of the blame.
It's just a form of blood libel, should not be tolerated, and should be stopped wherever it is found. Even in STO.
My reward for being nice was getting called a TRIBBLE. :rolleyes: ... Anti-TRIBBLE-TRIBBLE ... great
->
Hehe, it doesn't mean I agree with the skill cap.
Anyway, this thread is just a flame war of the self-proclaimed law and history professors so some derailing won't hurt anyone.
I LOVE Archie. "Those were the days....."
The op is, in my opinion, absolutely correct: Insulting somebody because they de not use English language is bad behaviour.
But ... starting huge discussions about the word 'racism' is plain and simple just ridiculous!
I think everybody understood what the op was trying to say. And I do not think that the topic is something people should make a joke of by starting discussions which are really off topic.
Especially because it should be clear that the op does not speak English as native language. Perfect behaviour flaming people for the use of wording in a post which they obviously wrote in a foreign language. This behaviour leads exactly to a situation the op complains about!
You do not like the word 'racism'? Change it to 'xenophobia' and you are exactly at the point the op is trying to explain.
And Cryptic ... sorry to say that but the issue is really a problem. In the last couple of days I saw loads of 'TRIBBLE scum', 'french moron', 'frenchy bast ard', 'TRIBBLE schwein' and other stuff in the chat.
do something about it.
the question is: What needs to be done? Banning all those mentally TRIBBLE idiots? Or perhaps using special channels which are automatically used if somebody switches the game language to Geman or French.
I know right, Mr. Jefferson is also cool!
There is only ONE RACE!!!!!
The HUMAN RACE
We are ALL the same...the sooner you people get that into your grey matter the better,
Not even an apology for insulting my heritage? I don't care if you posted in anger or not. I am angry with your insulting and derogatory words toward Americans and I have not responded in kind. As far as I am concerned your forum account should already be suspended for it if not banned completely.
Where are the moderators on this? Why isn't this account suspended/banned already?
Draw the line now.
It's nice in theory but this has been preached since the beginning. Peace on Earth good ill towards men etc.
What is the proper word in English to describe such behavior please ?
Douchebaggery!
(Just a wild guess.
It's a perfectly legitamite issue. And it does not matter weather its "racism" or not. Descriminating against any one for any reason is wrong.
And posting this comment is not descriminating against everyone on this forum as if it's implying that everyone is doing it, it is simply a very stern remind to those that are doing it, as it should be.
I for one will certainly be reporting anyone making comments like this.
This somes me up, although i have a smattering of American....
intolerance