I might actually like ground combat if it were quake, if only it were like Gears of War or Mass Effect. Currently I view ground combat as something to be endured.
yeah, lets hope they get this working, otherwise, sto would have been a complete waste of potential.
Not sure how rebinding the keys will help, the issue seems to be that the camera view is hell bent on showing your target somewhere on the screen, so if you target passes you, then you can get turned around pretty quick.
Problems seems especially bad when you are aiming (default "c" key)
I spent most of beta focused on setting up controls to work in an FPS style, but no one wanted to hear it. I've got the controls down to reasonable level so that you don't stay focused on a single target. I target the nearest guy automatically with each shot. I even made a big post and videos but again, everyone seemed more content to complain about the standard controls instead of adjusting their controls or giving any feedback on how to improve it. So all I can say is you can setup the controls so that ground combat flows a lot better and targeting is almost exactly like Batman or Mass Effect. That's how I play today, That's how I PVP and it works great.
Experiment, use /bind and $$ (to combine commands) and remap your keys. Also, set your camera to FREE CAMERA.
I agree that it needs a bit of tweaking at this time. One drawback for me is I feel with the low skill cap and only 30% of the game being on the ground I cannot afford to put points in ground skills... at all.
I hope you can get your old thread stickied then. I'm not sure if anyone has tried adjusting their interface.
Although to be honest the only thing I did to mine was turn off "always face forward" and I'm having fun on every mission whether with other players or my bridge officers.
I still think this thread became tongue in cheek when someone said they wanted it consoled.
I agree that it needs a bit of tweaking at this time. One drawback for me is I feel with the low skill cap and only 30% of the game being on the ground I cannot afford to put points in ground skills... at all.
/salutes the truth
While I like the ground combat someone does needs to warp around the sun, travel back in time and stop the skill cap from being born.
I have found the ground combat interesting ... use covert stelth when ever possible (as opposed to run and gun)...
If a 57 year old man can do it .. you younger whipper snappers can ! Yes there's a lot to learn. NO we DON"T need auto win (aka auto fire) ... take the time to learn more about the controls and the varrious kits that are available.
I will agree it will take a little getting use to .. BUT IMHO aside from a few tweaks here and there the ground combat is good to go ... (not perfect .. just a couple of rough edges to smooth out).
I also have foound several of the mission scripts to be fun .. and one or two VERY well written.
IMHO .. Cryptic keep focusing on MORE content ! The better the stories and mission scripts the more players will enjoy this game !
I have to agree with OP. Theres not even a aggro system in the game i send in all my BOFS in a group of klingons im 50 meters away and i still get attacked by 3 klingons seriously what it that :S
As another counterpoint among many; I am very happy with the way ground combat is done. It is also essential to the game mechanic's; for it to be done that way. Starship and ground combat have to be similiar; to make this game possible, as it uses the same game engine. So you're going to find, that it is unavoidable for it to be done this way; all you need to do, is get used to a different way of playing FPS.
You can use the mouse, exactly as in space combat; to guide your characters movement and facing. In this mode, A and D act as strafe buttons; so all you need to do, is home the camera to your target as you're moving. It's a little awkward at first, and the off screen targets the draw your fire can be unusual; but it is an adaptable scenario, and you can tab to retarget, or turn and face. ..even strafe to the side; to move yourself out of melle.
Space combat can be a bit awkward too, I've noticed; but it is very enjoyable, and rewarding. The firing arc's of weapons, combined with shield facing's; really go a long way to bringing authenticity to the game. Very happy with it all; its the first game I've been nearly addicted to in awhile.
Through my many ground combat "only" MMO games I have played- I kinda like the ground combat. I think they did a nice job of mixing both ground and space combat. That said there could always be some tweaking to do to make things better. IMO
Nobodies complaining that its too hard to win, its that its frustrating to play in its current form. The ai is just not up to the task of being a smart opponent. Its relying on hit points and really slow refire on weapons to survive. if there had been a cover system and the ai would have used it along with the flanking ability then it would have made sense but right now its just a game of either charge in and accept your bos will do the job so go beat on things and see what combos you can pull of till their done. Or line up your bos to give the impression of being a squad and start to shoot and accept your essential herding mindless lemmings.
What bugs me and Im guessing anybody thats played champions is that cryptic already hasa great system for making ground combat what everybody thats complaining here finds fun and challenging but decided to remove it. The reason from what I understand is because in cb some people complained that it was too fast and didnt give you a chance to use tactics. Now you can setup your bos to your hearts content but what the point the ai is still dim witted and the awkward pacing just make it that much more glaringly obvious.
Can't say I like the ground combat either. Not that it makes me nerdrage either (at least not yet - we'll see as time goes by), but I'd rather enjoy than endure it, which is not the case at the moment.
Right now, it's just... comical, and not in a good way. No use of tactics much, my team and enemies mixed up standing there spamming their attack(s)... oh dear. It also seems impossible to lose so far. I've been incapacitated once for being overly careless and thus being ganked by a Swordmaster combined with some random fire from other enemies at the same time, but the AI teammates normally don't have a worry in the world, and will pick me back up momentarily even if I go down myself.
Movement is also rather clunky. It's easy to get stuck or slowed by/into terrain/objects.
I'd truly prefer it being more like an FPS. And no, no amount of tweaking options/controls addresses the issue enough, even while it does help slightly. But there's honestly no reason they couldn't do it more like a proper FPS. That wouldn't have prevented most of the RPG elements from being implemented either if done properly, so it's not like it would have to be a carbon copy of Quake. Earlier in the thread someone said it has to be done like this because it uses the same engine as the space combat. Eh... that's no reason at all. It's entirely possible to have a completely different ground experience.
It's a shame the ground combat is less than stellar. I really quite like space combat. Personally for the most part I prefer it over EVE's space combat, since direction making a difference etc is nice. My main gripe would probably have to be the lack of true 360 degree flight. I can't think of a reason why it's necessary to be unable to make a loop or at the very least fly directly up and down. Once I get into my more agile Escort ship later today, I imagine it'll be even more limiting that it is currently. But since the space combat is nice otherwise, I suppose it's forgivable... for now.
The game is using a modified version of the champions engine and from what most people say thats just a heavily updated city of heros engine. In open beta you sometimes beamed into space as a person or on the ground as a ship and rather quickly got a good idea what was done to make both work the way it does. Basically while youre a ship youre a really slow toon that can fly. In beta you could fall to your death as a human in space if you didnt turn into a ship in time.
From what Ive gather which isnt much I dont know much about programming outside of scripts for web type code. One of the big reasons you dont have full 3d rotation is the game for some reason or another cant really handle you being upside down. I think it has to do with being tied to a ground plain and the closer you get to being the wrong way up the more it doesnt like it. sorta like how some games start to go all wonky if you get stuck funny in a way that changes your angle to drastically. In city of heros and champions you can fly strait up but your toon never is pointing strait up theres a slight bend in the body of the toon that is hidden by the way the bones in the game work but its still there if you look for it. Im not saying this is the only reason or even if its a major one it couldnt be fixed. Cryptic made the decision to not make the space 3d and I do get that wont change outside of the enter play base quitting with that one
demand. Truth be told its still fun. Ground combat is ugly though and could be so much better.
I posted a video on the first page that gave somewhat of an example of what can be done in champions. Its not a perfect fps but its rather close and leaps and bounds ahead of what we have now. If you really wana see what can be done get a trial for champions its free and make a munitions character and try changing some of the settings to whats in the video and tool around with the hud. The best way to describe it is just about an fps with an option of attacking on mouse over or sticking targeting. You cant do a headshot there are no regions but there is a crosshair thats really responsive and hit boxes. Plus you can set your guns to maintain on keys like mouse button 1 and 2. This means as long as you hold either of them they shoot what theyre bound to.
My setup in champions was about the same as he had with a few tweaks basically it was an fps control I would look around with my mouse if I had my crosshair over a mob or player in pvp and pushed the first mouse button my toon would shoot their primary attack if I held down the second one it would shoot the second attack. I got creative with the other ones by using some of the other buttons on it. When I wanted a curser back I set it to use the ~ key as toggle mouse look so I could fiddle with windows and such.
I don't care about the camera control what really bugs me is that you can go afk and still win.
It is not nearly as fun as space combat, and even easier. But I doubt that increasing difficulty is going to save this part of the game.
They tried to make it tactical and somewhat "action" based, in the end it has become none of either. Not even fascinating scenarios or storylines are going to save this rather weak part of the game.
I would however like some more "boarding" scenarios. Like some aliens boarding your ship and you drive them off.
Can't they make it somewhat MMO FPS and allow shooting with Mouse Button 1 and 2? I will try to switch the keybinds after downtime, I wonder if it then feels a bit better than hammering 1 and 2 on CD.
Yes they can, that exactly what they have in champions if you want to set it up that way.
What Id also love to see and I posted on the first page would be an option to have weapons fire. I figured the way to do it would be if you turn it on the cool downs on guns would be cut by ¾ to ½ and also maybe increase the damage per shot for all npcs and pcs that goes into an instance thats been set as said in the forum of a buff to their stats.
It wont be perfect but it would be a quick and dirty way to make the game more fun for those of us that want an fps feel while not bothering those that dont.
Whats really sad is that they have a wonderful control option that does a great soft fps combat system in champions but its nowhere to be found here. Stos ground combat is slow clunky and just a layer of tedium that has to be waded though. Its like a really bad rts I still have yet to see anything that remotely constitute tactics or the need for it. Leading mobs into a kill zone one after the other like lemmings is not tactics its taking advantage of a stupid ai. Like in open beta I went to full melee to keep from burning a hole though my monitor with hate, so far pulling off random new combos keeps me occupied.
I just dont get why its been done like this. I spend more time having to get my bos unstuck than anything else. You dont need to place anybody anywhere to do anything your bos will murder anything and everything in their path on their own. Some people like this it seems but a lot dont. Some of us want to have to think on our feet, dodge and run from cover to cover like we saw in the show to survive. Not stand there pressing one attack button every 5 seconds and the other every 30 like some dippy bird waiting for the mob to fall over.
Right now its like trying to place chess with somebody that doesnt know the rules or the concept of winning and if left to his own devices will choke on what he lovingly refers to as the horsy.
What Id really love to see is champions fps controls scheme in the game along with an option for faster cool downs on all weapons for the player and the npcs. At least that way wed not notice all the problem because wed be fighting for dear life, it would feel exciting like a challenge.
The youtube link is what combat in champions can be like I should have made one with a munitions but I never thought about it. This one is a guy showing you how to setup champions to work like an fps. Hes showing you melee attack but it works just as well for range attacks and it illustrates what the games capable of if it wasnt crippled the way it is now.
Yes I know some like it the way it is. Im not saying to make it feel like an action game only Im saying give us the options to play it that way if we want.
re posting for max exposer i watched the video I AM SOLD
IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR FPS LIKE ME WATCH THE VIEO THIS WILL SOLVE THE PROBLEM
Comments
Problems seems especially bad when you are aiming (default "c" key)
Experiment, use /bind and $$ (to combine commands) and remap your keys. Also, set your camera to FREE CAMERA.
I can't tell if any of you are actually being serious.
Unfortunately, I think they are.
I hope you can get your old thread stickied then. I'm not sure if anyone has tried adjusting their interface.
Although to be honest the only thing I did to mine was turn off "always face forward" and I'm having fun on every mission whether with other players or my bridge officers.
I still think this thread became tongue in cheek when someone said they wanted it consoled.
/salutes the truth
While I like the ground combat someone does needs to warp around the sun, travel back in time and stop the skill cap from being born.
If a 57 year old man can do it .. you younger whipper snappers can ! Yes there's a lot to learn. NO we DON"T need auto win (aka auto fire) ... take the time to learn more about the controls and the varrious kits that are available.
I will agree it will take a little getting use to .. BUT IMHO aside from a few tweaks here and there the ground combat is good to go ... (not perfect .. just a couple of rough edges to smooth out).
I also have foound several of the mission scripts to be fun .. and one or two VERY well written.
IMHO .. Cryptic keep focusing on MORE content ! The better the stories and mission scripts the more players will enjoy this game !
Just my own $.02 on the matter !
You can use the mouse, exactly as in space combat; to guide your characters movement and facing. In this mode, A and D act as strafe buttons; so all you need to do, is home the camera to your target as you're moving. It's a little awkward at first, and the off screen targets the draw your fire can be unusual; but it is an adaptable scenario, and you can tab to retarget, or turn and face. ..even strafe to the side; to move yourself out of melle.
Space combat can be a bit awkward too, I've noticed; but it is very enjoyable, and rewarding. The firing arc's of weapons, combined with shield facing's; really go a long way to bringing authenticity to the game. Very happy with it all; its the first game I've been nearly addicted to in awhile.
Cheers,
Ditto. Now they just get to fix the ()@#)@# server so we can play it
What bugs me and Im guessing anybody thats played champions is that cryptic already hasa great system for making ground combat what everybody thats complaining here finds fun and challenging but decided to remove it. The reason from what I understand is because in cb some people complained that it was too fast and didnt give you a chance to use tactics. Now you can setup your bos to your hearts content but what the point the ai is still dim witted and the awkward pacing just make it that much more glaringly obvious.
Right now, it's just... comical, and not in a good way. No use of tactics much, my team and enemies mixed up standing there spamming their attack(s)... oh dear. It also seems impossible to lose so far. I've been incapacitated once for being overly careless and thus being ganked by a Swordmaster combined with some random fire from other enemies at the same time, but the AI teammates normally don't have a worry in the world, and will pick me back up momentarily even if I go down myself.
Movement is also rather clunky. It's easy to get stuck or slowed by/into terrain/objects.
I'd truly prefer it being more like an FPS. And no, no amount of tweaking options/controls addresses the issue enough, even while it does help slightly. But there's honestly no reason they couldn't do it more like a proper FPS. That wouldn't have prevented most of the RPG elements from being implemented either if done properly, so it's not like it would have to be a carbon copy of Quake. Earlier in the thread someone said it has to be done like this because it uses the same engine as the space combat. Eh... that's no reason at all. It's entirely possible to have a completely different ground experience.
It's a shame the ground combat is less than stellar. I really quite like space combat. Personally for the most part I prefer it over EVE's space combat, since direction making a difference etc is nice. My main gripe would probably have to be the lack of true 360 degree flight. I can't think of a reason why it's necessary to be unable to make a loop or at the very least fly directly up and down. Once I get into my more agile Escort ship later today, I imagine it'll be even more limiting that it is currently. But since the space combat is nice otherwise, I suppose it's forgivable... for now.
From what Ive gather which isnt much I dont know much about programming outside of scripts for web type code. One of the big reasons you dont have full 3d rotation is the game for some reason or another cant really handle you being upside down. I think it has to do with being tied to a ground plain and the closer you get to being the wrong way up the more it doesnt like it. sorta like how some games start to go all wonky if you get stuck funny in a way that changes your angle to drastically. In city of heros and champions you can fly strait up but your toon never is pointing strait up theres a slight bend in the body of the toon that is hidden by the way the bones in the game work but its still there if you look for it. Im not saying this is the only reason or even if its a major one it couldnt be fixed. Cryptic made the decision to not make the space 3d and I do get that wont change outside of the enter play base quitting with that one
demand. Truth be told its still fun. Ground combat is ugly though and could be so much better.
I posted a video on the first page that gave somewhat of an example of what can be done in champions. Its not a perfect fps but its rather close and leaps and bounds ahead of what we have now. If you really wana see what can be done get a trial for champions its free and make a munitions character and try changing some of the settings to whats in the video and tool around with the hud. The best way to describe it is just about an fps with an option of attacking on mouse over or sticking targeting. You cant do a headshot there are no regions but there is a crosshair thats really responsive and hit boxes. Plus you can set your guns to maintain on keys like mouse button 1 and 2. This means as long as you hold either of them they shoot what theyre bound to.
My setup in champions was about the same as he had with a few tweaks basically it was an fps control I would look around with my mouse if I had my crosshair over a mob or player in pvp and pushed the first mouse button my toon would shoot their primary attack if I held down the second one it would shoot the second attack. I got creative with the other ones by using some of the other buttons on it. When I wanted a curser back I set it to use the ~ key as toggle mouse look so I could fiddle with windows and such.
It is not nearly as fun as space combat, and even easier. But I doubt that increasing difficulty is going to save this part of the game.
They tried to make it tactical and somewhat "action" based, in the end it has become none of either. Not even fascinating scenarios or storylines are going to save this rather weak part of the game.
I would however like some more "boarding" scenarios. Like some aliens boarding your ship and you drive them off.
Can't they make it somewhat MMO FPS and allow shooting with Mouse Button 1 and 2? I will try to switch the keybinds after downtime, I wonder if it then feels a bit better than hammering 1 and 2 on CD.
What Id also love to see and I posted on the first page would be an option to have weapons fire. I figured the way to do it would be if you turn it on the cool downs on guns would be cut by ¾ to ½ and also maybe increase the damage per shot for all npcs and pcs that goes into an instance thats been set as said in the forum of a buff to their stats.
It wont be perfect but it would be a quick and dirty way to make the game more fun for those of us that want an fps feel while not bothering those that dont.
re posting for max exposer i watched the video I AM SOLD
IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR FPS LIKE ME WATCH THE VIEO THIS WILL SOLVE THE PROBLEM