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Alteration token should also include career change

esel9912esel9912 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
I leveled up an engeneering captain, got promotion ships, lobi gear, and maxed out weapons, by attending events for many years. Now I learn that with a tactical career, I could do much more DPG, thus I would like to change the career of my main character. I had hopes to be able to do this with the captain Alteration Token, but that just lets me change species and gender.
My suggestion: add the possibility to change the career to the alteration token.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments

  • esel9912esel9912 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    Typo: I mean DPS, not DPG ;)
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 6,010 Arc User
    You can do more DPS with engineer and science characters, you don't have to be tactical to do more. I do not see the point of a career alteration token.
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  • esel9912esel9912 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    @sthe91 How do you think an engeneering captain can do more damage? I don't have ambush (ground) and attack pattern alpha (space) when I am no tactical captain. Engeneering gives survivability, good for tanking, but I want DPS. Please explain what you mean and why you don't see a point in a career alteration token. IMO, changing the career has greater impact than changing the gender or the race.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,814 Community Moderator
    So, a career token isn't going to happen and I'm going to tell you why. There are tons of things that are tied to what career you such as traits, accolades, and a few other bits. These are hardcoded and can't be changed. Even if we assume for sake of discussion they could, this raises some very important questions. I have unlocked most every trait there can be for my main tac toon. What if hypothetically I wanted to change from Tac to Eng and there are no engineer equivalents to a few of my traits, say 3 of them. What happens to those 3 traits? Do I just have 3 dead traits I can't use? If they take those 3 traits from me, what do I get in return or do I just loose those traits for nothing? Then let's assume I decided I didn't like Eng and wanted to go back to Tac, what happens to those 3 traits I had before? Do I get them back?

    Changing your character's gender and costumes is one thing, but your career is something else entirely.

    Now with that in mind, if you want DPS there is no winner take all "best" captain type despite what some talking heads and people may tell you. Career wise what you're essentially picking is what baseline powers you want to have. Certain captain types will give more baseline tools to certain build types, but that's where what is "best" ends. Point blank whoever told you that you can't do great damage as an Engineering captain lied to you. Being an engineer doesn't automatically make one a great tank either. You can ask some of the other forumites on here, I'm a tactical captain tank, but I can put out heals rivaling or exceeding engineers. Would the engineering captain powers help me as a tank, certainly they would, but by no means do I required them. Likewise you don't need tactical captain powers to do great damage. They can certainly help but aren't required.

    If your goal is DPS, the first question I should start with is what kind of DPS you want. Do you want energy DPS, torpedo, mines, science powers? What do you personally want to do?
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  • warpbubble#4547 warpbubble Member Posts: 1 New User
    I like the idear that the alteration token should include career change. When we can change gender and race, why shouldn't we also be able change the career? Same like race and gender, you have to decide your career at a very early stage of the game and you do not fully grasp what the career realy means, if you're not a veteran of course. Now you have to create and level up a character from scratch in order to change the career! This should change, I agree to this suggestion.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,689 Arc User
    Some games are designed to support a full respec including your base class / career (like Baldur's Gate 3) some are not (like Diablo and STO).

    Yes, it probably is technically possible with a LOT of work by the developers and QA team to offer some kind of full respec where they just throw away all the accolades and traits. No, it's unlikely that Cryptic will spend that amount of time for the few people who want this even if it means delaying the next story episode or TFO.

    It never hurts to ask, just realize that the answer might be "no".
  • nixie50nixie50 Member Posts: 1,347 Arc User
    edited July 30
    I hear it all the time, APA is the DPS OMG you suck if you don't have it so be a tac. I am not a min maxer. never wanted to be. BUT would someone PLEASE show numbers where APA trumps having max power almost 100% of the time, something an engineer can do easily. ditto the effect od phtonic capacitor and photonic fleet for science, along with subnuke
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  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    esel9912 wrote: »
    How do you think an engineering captain can do more damage? I don't have ambush (ground) and attack pattern alpha (space) when I am no tactical captain ... I want DPS.

    Exactly. While I sometimes run an Engineering or Science character for variety when playing ground, there's just no replacement for the damage orientated buffs that only tactical captains have access to when going for Delta Papa Sierra.

    I can see how a career change might be difficult from a programming perspective though. Players would lose career specific items such as kit modules.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 11,007 Community Moderator
    I like the idear that the alteration token should include career change. When we can change gender and race, why shouldn't we also be able change the career? Same like race and gender, you have to decide your career at a very early stage of the game and you do not fully grasp what the career realy means, if you're not a veteran of course. Now you have to create and level up a character from scratch in order to change the career! This should change, I agree to this suggestion.

    Dude. You literally created a sock puppet account, so that you could agree with your own suggetion. 🙄😒
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,666 Community Moderator
    Engies being able to augment their own power levels is pretty powerful. Also I think they have the ability to essentially negate power drain from firing weapons as well, which means full power shots for every weapon.

    Science can debuff enemies, and strip buffs. And being able to heal by being attacked and summon holoships?

    All three classes are able to do DPS. You just gotta learn how they do it. STO is not bound by the Trinity.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,393 Arc User
    edited July 30
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Engies being able to augment their own power levels is pretty powerful. Also I think they have the ability to essentially negate power drain from firing weapons as well, which means full power shots for every weapon.

    Science can debuff enemies, and strip buffs. And being able to heal by being attacked and summon holoships?

    All three classes are able to do DPS. You just gotta learn how they do it. STO is not bound by the Trinity.

    Isn't higher level DPS more about ability synergy anyway, with your base class mattering very little. While I'm no DPS chaser I've not found any significant difference between the base performance of my SCI, ENG or TAC toon and I got all 3.

    Is Attack Pattern Alpha useful, certainly but I've not noticed it causing any drastic increase in DPS compared to the other careers.

    EDIT:Last I checked my highest damaging toon was my SCI TOS character.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 5,051 Arc User
    nixie50 wrote: »
    I hear it all the time, APA is the DPS OMG you suck if you don't have it so be a tac. I am not a min maxer. never wanted to be. BUT would someone PLEASE show numbers where APA trumps having max power almost 100% of the time, something an engineer can do easily. ditto the effect od phtonic capacitor and photonic fleet for science, along with subnuke

    In terms of damage output, I think it's safe to say that APA is more interesting than Photonic Fleet.

    But that's just damage output. If you like playing a summoner character, APA isn't going to be very useful. Same with on the ground, if you like playing a healer, it doesn't matter that you can't have all sorts of offensive buffs like tacs do.

    Besides, it's probably easier for tacs to easily do more damage, but in the end all careers are going to be able to contribute to completion of all content. So, OP, if you like doing more damage, just roll a tac. Your existing engineer and science characters can still do their own thing then, there's more to the game than just doing damage.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 5,051 Arc User
    As for the argument that we can also change species now:

    Some species weren't available in the past, and they are now. Cardassians for example. It made sense for Cryptic to offer longtime players a chance to change their old characters and use the expanded options we nowadays have, without losing everything they worked on in all these years.

    With careers, it's different though. We've always had these three careers. I don't really see a good reason why we should be able to revert choices and make different ones, when no new options have been added in that regard. You could always create a tac, if a tac is what you wanted to play.

    And increasing your DPS is possible in other ways, to much greater effect too. Changing some of the fundamental things of the game, isn't required for that.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    nixie50 wrote: »
    I hear it all the time, APA is the DPS OMG you suck if you don't have it so be a tac. I am not a min maxer. never wanted to be. BUT would someone PLEASE show numbers where APA trumps having max power almost 100% of the time, something an engineer can do easily. ditto the effect od phtonic capacitor and photonic fleet for science, along with subnuke

    Thing like Attack Pattern Alpha, Fire on my Mark, Go Down Fighting, and Tactical Initiative (as well as their equivalents on the ground) make doing damage much *easier* with a tactical Captain. They also get the benefits of many career specific buffs that are literally huge in the form of kit modules such as Ambush (and others) on the ground.

    Attack Pattern Alpha is +33.2% (49.6%) All Bonus Damage, +3.32% (4.96%) Critical Chance, +33.2% (49.6%) Critical Severity, and +80% (119.6%) Flight Turn Rate strength for 20 sec

    Go Down Fighting is +20 All Damage Resistance Rating and +50% Bonus All Damage

    Combine these with the traits A Good Day to Die (use GDF at any hull integrity) and Intelligence Agent Attache (recharge Captain abilities faster) and you've got a monster.

    For engineers their Captain abilities that increase power levels or negate power drain from weapons simply don't come close to the straight damage buffs tacs get.

    I do like Miraculous Repairs and the trait that allows it to reset so it can be used a second time.

    I play all three classes and find them all unique and fun to play.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,666 Community Moderator
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Isn't higher level DPS more about ability synergy anyway, with your base class mattering very little. While I'm no DPS chaser I've not found any significant difference between the base performance of my SCI, ENG or TAC toon and I got all 3.

    Is Attack Pattern Alpha useful, certainly but I've not noticed it causing any drastic increase in DPS compared to the other careers.

    EDIT:Last I checked my highest damaging toon was my SCI TOS character.

    Ability synergy, traits, gear, even positioning... DPS is more than just one ability. Its a science in its own right. How things work together.

    There is no ONE ability to rule them all.

    Each class can dish it out in different ways. But there is one absolute constant that cannot be disputed by anyone.
    If you're dead, your DPS is 0. Unless you have an active Gravity Well. Then somehow you still do some damage. lol
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • krisxr400krisxr400 Member Posts: 154 Arc User
    I admit i didn't read all of the responses, there is a much easier way to play a tactical captain, just create a tactical captain. All of your event rewards and zen purchases are still available to you. I have sci and engineer toons and they do fine, i made them because i wanted to try a different play style. I have noticed that within the past five years almost all of players advice to others is to copy the same load outs and mind set. My best advice is to keep playing, learning, and discovering new synergies when it comes to load outs.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 5,051 Arc User
    Not so sure about the copy-paste thing.

    I'm sure that some of the many carriers we've been seeing in the past weeks, also include players that had never flown one before. So I think there is some experimentation and trying out new things.

    It helps that recent ship releases have been helping niche builds. The proton and drain stuff from the Dyson ships. Summoner builds with the console from the Rex and now the new temporal ship. Torpedo builds with the Achilles.

    Also, on the ground, I'm seeing some diversification. V'ger probes and Ball Lightning as instant killing machines have become less omnipresent, instead there's more other lightning stuff, including the latest Risa kit modules. I'm even seeing some sword fighters and captains with regular phaser pistols, as well as 'beast masters'. It's similar to how Spore Infused Anomalies as one of the previous go-to traits, has now become a rarer sighting.

    Unfortunately there's also still a lot of oversized hand-cannons as the easy damage dealers and, on the other hand, I would have expected to see more split beam rifles (seriously, they seem very rare for how useful they are) and stuff like the Risa volcano ability. But to me it seems that players are definitely experimenting.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 11,007 Community Moderator
    The Captain Alteration Token was only made to be a cosmetic change (race, gender), not a functional change.
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  • esel9912esel9912 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    Thank you for all your answers, even if they make me sad. I have spent years building up my main character (Kristy) through hard daily work and without real money. I have earned promo and lobby ships, and leveled up my weapons and consoles. I bought personal traits for EC, it's all bound to this one character (Kristy). None of my other characters is nearly as well equipped.

    After playing a tactical character properly for the first time on another account, I noticed that it is clearly superior to my engineer character (Kristy). That's why I actually wanted to sacrifice 750 Zen to adjust my career. I was very disappointed that it wasn't possible, so I started this discussion.

    Unfortunately, I no longer know which character I should give this year's annual event, which I'm almost finished with, because it now seems like a waste for my main character (Kristy).
    I'm trying to maximize my DPS, to get the records with energy weapon damage, CSV. I use a plasma build and now wanted to acquire the Gorn Hunter Pilot Raider to incorporate the cannons, consoles and the plasma trait into my build. I would like to use attack pattern alpha in combination with this.

    Of course I am aware that all my engineering skills would be lost if I could switch to tactical officer. I would have to earn them again, which would be no problem. Equipping a new tactical character with all that I have on my main character (Kristy) would be a much bigger effort.

    Nevertheless, I accept that it is not possible.
    Thank you for your answers and interesting discussion points.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,666 Community Moderator
    esel9912 wrote: »
    Unfortunately, I no longer know which character I should give this year's annual event, which I'm almost finished with, because it now seems like a waste for my main character (Kristy).

    Its not a waste really. If there is a ship you want to get for that character, go for it. Doesn't matter which character you give the T6 Promo to. The thing that really matters is that its fun for that character. You can have a build to try and do pure DPS, and you can set up another ship that is built more for fun and how you play that particular character. There is no right or wrong way to play, unless you are purposefully trying to sabotage others.

    If you put a lot into Kristy, that is perfectly fine. If you wanna take a break from her and work on your Tac, that is also perfectly fine. I'm sure some more experienced Engie Players can give some advice on how to boost your DPS if that is something you are really interested in.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    I have a lot of fun with my engineers both on the ground and in space.

    Zero issues with them.. they are some of my oldest characters.
  • nixie50nixie50 Member Posts: 1,347 Arc User
    as a slight hijack, does the token open up TOS to caitians and alien gen? also,do the sfx change> combadge vs communicator and transporter effects
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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,393 Arc User
    nixie50 wrote: »
    as a slight hijack, does the token open up TOS to caitians and alien gen? also,do the sfx change> combadge vs communicator and transporter effects

    only works within a faction (and TOS and DSC are different factions for this purpose) so no FX changes or unlocks to species not originally part of the faction.
  • azrael#9500 azrael Member Posts: 244 Arc User
    TOS and Dominion are the two factions that benefit the least from the alteration token (Dominion only has Jem and Vanguard, TOS only has human, Vulcan, Andorian and Tellarite).
    GAME OVER

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  • crm14916crm14916 Member Posts: 1,535 Arc User
    The ONLY thing I wished the CAT would have included is a rename… Just weird having a female toon named Frank… or a male toon named Shirley (yep, I picked the names on purpose).

    I know, I know… there is already a captain rename… Just wished it would have included it…

    CRM
    "Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,666 Community Moderator
    nixie50 wrote: »
    as a slight hijack, does the token open up TOS to caitians and alien gen? also,do the sfx change> combadge vs communicator and transporter effects

    Negative. However there is apparently talk of potentially opening up species options thanks to the token.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 5,051 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    I have a lot of fun with my engineers both on the ground and in space.

    Zero issues with them.. they are some of my oldest characters.

    Don't play them myself a lot, but when I was in Borg Battle Royale yesterday, it was an engineer that kept us going as we approached round 100. His shields and turrets gave him a survivability in rounds with those pesky Vinculum drones that even my (admittedly, more risk taking) Sci lacked.

    With most maps being smaller nowadays and teams being less mobile than they used to be compared to missions like Starbase Incursion, Infected or Khitomer ground, that fort building thing that they excel in is definitely useful in many scenario's.
  • azrael#9500 azrael Member Posts: 244 Arc User
    I have one engineer, Sceptile, who is seriously OP, traveling through space in her "death locomotive", the Giratina. (It's a Gok'Tad flight deck carrier.) In the hands of an engi, and the right build, ANY ship can become a miniature Death Star.

    I will say though that engi is a bit more expensive to build around, at least in my experience. Definitely worth doing once, though. All my other toons are science, because I just like that huge self-heal from Medical Tricorder.
    GAME OVER

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  • ussvinovia#1662 ussvinovia Member Posts: 139 Arc User
    There is absolutely no need to change profession. While I would argue that tac gets the most love, it's also the most boring.if I were to redesign my main for dps, I'd go engineer all the way. As it happens, I chose Science back in 2016 and love that decision.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    I have a lot of fun with my engineers both on the ground and in space.

    Zero issues with them.. they are some of my oldest characters.

    Don't play them myself a lot, but when I was in Borg Battle Royale yesterday, it was an engineer that kept us going as we approached round 100. His shields and turrets gave him a survivability in rounds with those pesky Vinculum drones that even my (admittedly, more risk taking) Sci lacked.

    With most maps being smaller nowadays and teams being less mobile than they used to be compared to missions like Starbase Incursion, Infected or Khitomer ground, that fort building thing that they excel in is definitely useful in many scenario's.

    I thought I'd mention that I have a lot of fun with my engineers just to reinforce that the all three disciplines bring different things to the table. Sure.. when it comes to straight dps it's go tactical or go home, but perhaps it can be beneficial to have three different characters in order to take advantage of the different playstyle that comes with each discipline? With recruitment events happening on a regular basis this can be pretty easy these days while at the same time bringing some decent rewards for both one's character and account.
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