Latest episode - Situation Under Control - feedback and discussion !! Spoilers !!

fleetcaptain5

So I just played the new episode. I was thrilled for it, but completing it left me disappointed.

There were too many cutscenes. Mission progression was too predictable - bit of talk at the beginning, fighting some enemies, do something at a console, fight a bit, console bit etc. The boss fights weren't even boss fights, they were cutscenes where we only saw NPC's do their thing (

including firing Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon

).

I hate to say it, but this was awful. It certainly didn't live up to expectations. It started out so well, but then it was one let-down after the other.

fleetcaptain5

Besides the things I mentioned above, it's yet another dimension where everything is taking place. Meaning that the episode has the same effect that most multiverse-type of stuff has: it nullifies the relevance of whatever is happening, because there's always a thousand other dimensions where things went differently.

Reset buttons - and that's sort of what the multiverse seems to function as - are immense immersion killers. But that's just my opinion.

Some minor things:

Reinforcements are arriving and it's just one more ship? I could hear Koren scream, even though she was multiple sectors and dimensions away.

The episode reward is kind of meh. I think it would have been better to have the actual beacon be the episode reward and keep the torpedo as the event reward.

Two things I did like:

the new mechanic where you get to use an NPC's unique powers

.
And design-wise the mission looked great, as usual.

leemwatson

It was middling, but nothing really to dislike about it. Cut-scenes were all fine.
The remastered *place* looked fantastic and the episode was basically a show and tell of that environment.
The enemy was pretty awesome.
The reward was pretty poor though.

duncanidaho11

We're at a point where the Cryptic team is being shuffled off for a new group, so the creative spark/oomph in design is something that can absolutely take a hit. We aren't seeing the team at its best, its partial strength and dealing with the emotions of losing their longtime colleagues and work for the sake of a holding company's whims (ultimately, they didn't want to keep Cryptic around but DECA stepped in to take over the game...as their new thing.) Its' doing *enough* to keep the game going but the inspired touches and careful balance of player experience (something Cryptic can struggle with at the best of times) I'm not expecting. Part of me wishes the team got to make a proper farewell out of this arc, quickly jumping to an ending to make a proper send off for Cryptic and optimistic expression for what stories DECA will tell (as human creators, with the new devs making the most of a corporate situation). But that evidently hasn't been in the cards. So cue business as normal with a brittle smile and depressed feel to design.

Eg. it's worth playing these missions with that in mind because you're not going to see the best of level design, writing, and execution. To me this arc's been stumbling all year but that's what you get when you demolish a company, starting with the mass layoffs for unannounced games and then the gradual replacement of Cryptic for DECA. As flawed as these missions may be, it's some of the last work of this team (if not the last for those that recently left us). It's worth enjoying, for whatever it is, on that basis. Because for all the bad here, you still have the remaining Cryptic team trying to finish its last arc as they wanted to tell it. I'll let them stumble as much as they need to do that.

thay8472

Four missions into this multiverse arc and I'm still struggling to see how the Borg are a multiverse level threat. Every time we encounter them ... they lose. The Control Borg are clearly more powerful than the other two but after a few minutes of meeting us their head of state is possibly dead along with the Borg King of the MU.

I still don't trust the unity obsessed aliens either. Is that 'hole' they put into Fluidic Space still there? If they provoke the Undine, I'm not helping them.

Sela as the Captain of the Enterprise F was cool though.

questerius

Not thrilled due to the annoying Discovery season one two type of opponent and the garbage mission reward.
Kit modules designed against mechanical opponents do not affect those clearly mechanical foes.
Was hoping for a themed pickup weapon to salvage the horrible first impression, but that does not appear to be there either.

I'll play it on characters to keep mission profile updated.

captainkoltar

I liked it. A bit too much shooting, but the story beats we did get were good. I hope we get to see more of the bad guys in future stories. I also don't trust the Aetherians, and hope to see a twist there. I loved the environment - it was well implemented and looked great.

I liked the twists with the Borg, and their nature could provide some more interesting encounters in future episodes.

A better episode reward would have been good too, but there we go.

nixie50

I thought it was good. the reward sucked. the combat was pretty even till the last bit when it seemed like everything was targeting me and i went down twice. in my head canon I was already thinking about what could be done as a follow on

duncanidaho11

thay8472 wrote: »

Four missions into this multiverse arc and I'm still struggling to see how the Borg are a multiverse level threat. Every time we encounter them ... they lose. The Control Borg are clearly more powerful than the other two but after a few minutes of meeting us their head of state is possibly dead along with the Borg King of the MU.

I still don't trust the unity obsessed aliens either. Is that 'hole' they put into Fluidic Space still there? If they provoke the Undine, I'm not helping them.

Sela as the Captain of the Enterprise F was cool though.

Yeah the Aetherians are a twist waiting in plain sight (and since cutscene 1 of being so over the top advanced alien good guys that there *had* to be something more to them). Take their unity obsession. Unity is what you can consider the Borg as after (just far too aggressively...) What's the ethical divide between them? Is it just that the Aetherians are good and Borg bad? Or did someone in the multiverse with a penchant for group hugs once consider how best to achieve said group hug and unleash the Borg as a way of driving species into their fold?

I could see this ultimately ending with a straight run towards some Borg uber-Queen (oh my god, it's Kuumarkee! What cruel dramatic fate is this...) and the Aetherians as a friendly ally moving forward to have occasional expository dialog with. But I wouldn't normally expect that of Cryptic, they can do more complex story telling. It's just a question though whether the current team feels like executing a twist. I know with the Foundry sunset I opted for a genuine group hug rather than a planned double cross for my last mission. So while normally I'd be demanding a boss fight with the Aetherians to pay this story off effectively, I'm fine with however this ends up going.

questerius wrote: »

Kit modules designed against mechanical opponents do not affect those clearly mechanical foes.

Oh no, they've adapted to a weakness. Whomever would have thought a faction in the galaxy would ever develop countermeasures, least of all the Borg?

(eg. this sets mechanical enemies apart via immediate gameplay, regardless of whether its intended the effect characterizes the CTRL Borg. They are more organic in synthetic function than previously encountered Borg, which is supported visually by their tentacle theme.)

saurializard

The banner artwork promised me Sela with a 2401 phaser pistol!
Where is the 2401 phaser pistol, devs?! Why do you still use those ugly, old fleet phaser models?

Overall, I thought the mission was OK, nothing fancy, except the reward that just sucks (well, not the reward itself, just the fact it's the only reward).

Though, if I had a nickel for every time I had to defeat a unique Borg Octahedron and said defeat felt underwhelming with no banter or final words from the enemy, I'd have 2 nickels. Which isn't much but unusual it happened.

Also,

Kuumarke showing up all by herself in her lonesome, tiny ship as the cavalry, thinking she'd make a difference, was unintentionally hilarious.

And I appreciate the femboy design of our ally, even if he's not that useful in combat and slow to take position.

thay8472

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

I could see this ultimately ending with a straight run towards some Borg uber-Queen (oh my god, it's Kuumarkee! What cruel dramatic fate is this...) and the Aetherians as a friendly ally moving forward to have occasional expository dialog with. But I wouldn't normally expect that of Cryptic, they can do more complex story telling. It's just a question though whether the current team feels like executing a twist. I know with the Foundry sunset I opted for a genuine group hug rather than a planned double cross for my last mission. So while normally I'd be demanding a boss fight with the Aetherians to pay this story off effectively, I'm fine with however this ends up going.

I think it'll our character from the alternate universe where Riker had a surprise birthday party for Worf! Our character and the Inquisitor will have to team up to defeat other us as the Borg Supreme of the Borg Dynasty! ... Borg ships from that universe will glow purple and will have a deep hatred for the green glowing (Prime) Borg!

questerius

One good thing is that there seems to be a difference between federation and Romulan/Reman characters in the story line.
I assume that is due to the status of Sela.

Tomorrow with a bit more spare time I'll do test runs on other factions

questerius

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

questerius wrote: »

Kit modules designed against mechanical opponents do not affect those clearly mechanical foes.

Oh no, they've adapted to a weakness. Whomever would have thought a faction in the galaxy would ever develop countermeasures, least of all the Borg?

(eg. this sets mechanical enemies apart via immediate gameplay, regardless of whether its intended the effect characterizes the CTRL Borg. They are more organic in synthetic function than previously encountered Borg, which is supported visually by their tentacle theme.)

Let's not go around defending an obvious flaw.
The devs copy/pasted the control NPC from the discovery themed episodes, but they still did not add the mechanical trait.
Thus any kit modules which are supposed to have additional effects against mechanical foes do not work against the control NPC. It's just sloppy programming.

damocles2209

I thought the dialogue was honestly sub-par. The Control Borg situation was a bit lame, too, but that bit is due to my personal disdain for Discovery and just about anything to come out of it (especially anything tied to Section 31). Called the twist on the Borg Queen mid-mission and thought the Kumaarke reinforcement moment was incredibly ham-fisted. This mission didn't land for me, much like the last few.

saurializard

questerius wrote: »

One good thing is that there seems to be a difference between federation and Romulan/Reman characters in the story line.

I haven't noticed any difference other than 2 lines of dialogues: "[faction]? You speak of an entity that no longer exists" and "Been a while since I've seen a [faction] vessel".
Unless it's exclusive to Romulan (I ran with a Reman).

duncanidaho11

questerius wrote: »

Let's not go around defending an obvious flaw.
The devs copy/pasted the control NPC from the discovery themed episodes, but they still did not add the mechanical trait.
Thus any kit modules which are supposed to have additional effects against mechanical foes do not work against the control NPC. It's just sloppy programming.

The control NPC from discovery was also a mechanical enemy, in stated theme. See. AI governed nanite pile. It not being subject to mechanical debuffs IS THE EXACT SAME DYNAMIC BEING PLAYED. Not all mechanical enemies in the galaxy are subject to the same weaknesses, as that is a boring, one dimensional setup. Better to subvert player expectation on occasion, especially where it serves enemy characterization. What you thought was *supposed to* happen is not the universal arbiter for what a game should, in fact, do with your inputs.

Also, THIS IS CONTROL. See. CTRL and other control related branding. See. explicit dialog in the episode.
Cryptic didn't just copy and paste the NPC from discovery. They are incorporating it in narrative, unifying it with the Borg, to remix its characterization for this universe (sensibly for possible connections)...as is the regular pattern of utilizing the sandbox available to evolving stories. See "copy and pasting" Iconians for Quark's Lucky Seven or "copy and pasting" Tholians for Sunrise. Though Cryptic still introduced new Borg drones to boot to satisfy the new narrative angle (and allow Control ground units to be far better utilized across the future game. As now they're tied to a more robust faction that can be referenced as needed.)

Lacking attention to detail isn't something you should be throwing around at others when obvious points of the premise are missed in your argument, as well as missing the argument replied to by (checks notes) handwaving. I'm happy to discuss the art of game design with you, if you actually try to engage with that discussion. Otherwise you may as well post without the quote to arrive at your desired level of complaining for the thread. You don't need to involve me for those posts.

---

damocles2209 wrote: »

Called the twist on the Borg Queen mid-mission.

After Kim, the identity of the Borg leader isn't a twist. It's a reveal following a linear narrative progression. Ie. the opposite of a twist. It's a pale shadow of former moments but just as well not every episode needs to go for the rafters with its DRAMA to get the job done. Here you have a low key mission pushing forward Aetherian involvement while giving us somewhere different to be than the regular Mirror Universe. Job done, next season. There's a point for having workmanly episodes that move a few things along (better characterizing the Aetherians, better characterizing what alternate universes mean) while otherwise dealing with self-contained issues that play well to STO's combat model and available asset pool. See. blasting slight Borg variants around a Solanae sphere. That's fine for a mid arc mission.

thought the Kumaarke reinforcement moment was incredibly ham-fisted.

That one felt like the team realizing the next couple of seasons won't be able to (adequately) pay off Kuumarkee's trauma, so they moved the payoff to the end of this episode. The first cutscene felt appropriate to a longer running issue, and had a lot more invested in it. Kuumarkee's arrival though was through ship assets and dialog. You don't have the same emotive camera work and animations. Eg. lets just get this done.

The only suggestion I would have made is...spawn more than one Lukari science vessel. Eg. Khitomer ships or a few of the newfangled Dyson fessels. Lukari ships aren't characterized as triumphant calvary machines, though that in itself can play to unintended humor/charm.

Eg. Kuumarkee has this moment...but it's entirely unnecessary to defeating the Borg here. Good for her, but we had everything in hand (the fate of the galaxy did not depend on improbable movements of character). As a player, you can roll with that. And personally I find Kuumarkee getting on stage for herself more memorable than if she had a fleet at her back and the scene played out to the intended rote format. As Foundry author, it's the kind of thing we'd riff on in her later characterizations (grandstanding but well meaning). See. what the community did with Kurland Here. You could adopt the position that the character was bad, one dimensional, and obnoxiously used. But that's why we loved him and every token reference made with him (playing on our past trauma with the mission, grinded in its original context).

Eg. a little bit of jank goes a long way to making a lovable game (which is a separate thing to good/bad). And for me this episode hit that resonance (far more than the bombast of the past few seasons).

solidshark214

The Aetherians, honestly had better turn out to be villains in the end. As it is, I find the constant Aetherian Ex Machina dissatisfying from a gameplay standpoint, very, very much out of tune with Star Trek itself, and a borderline insult to my intelligence. Not impressed with these perfect utopian super-people.

baucoin

I found the mission itself was okay, but the mission reward was very disappointing. Come on a non-combat space pet? More like an inventory slot waster. Really so far, the entire Kings & Queens arc has had poor asset rewards. Wish Upon a Star is the only one that awards dilithium ore on the first play through.

duncanidaho11

solidshark214 wrote: »

I find the constant Aetherian Ex Machina dissatisfying from a gameplay standpoint, very, very much out of tune with Star Trek itself, and a borderline insult to my intelligence. Not impressed with these perfect utopian super-people.

Utopian super people is more or less the tag line for Starfleet per TNG. It's literally how people look up to most of the protagonists through the early series. And DS9 was nothing but Deus Ex Machina by crew and the prophets, with each major step in the Dominion War depending on improbable protagonist heroics, magic, or a combination between. How did Voyager get back to Earth in our timeline? Janeway Ex Machina. How did we get Kirk and Picard in a fist fight together at the end of Generations? Nexus Ex Machina. This *is* Star Trek. It can be flippant in how it moves from A to B and not play out like a historical drama of the future. Just realizing that? Good for you. The episode was in the realm of plot contrivance and character archetypes the IP's utilized for decades. It's fine.

And from a gameplay standpoint, we've already fought a canon character playing Borg potentate. Why not just move things along for this episode? Why not play to STO's preferred mob combat model and not try to make a boss fight for boss fight's sake? From that gameplay standpoint, I really appreciated this episode not dragging things out (eg. damage sponges) and preferring instead to use moments to characterize the Aetherians as more than just well meaning lords. They'll absolutely take a pot shot and take their sweet time indulging in the moment (while we writhe around in pain).

guljarol

I liked it. Since I prefer story-driven games, many cutscenes didn't bother me. They just drove the story.

While the story itself wasn't revolutionary, I like how it had an additional dimension when one is familiar with the Iconian Arc.

It was hilarious when NPC said to me he hadn't seen a Federation vessel, while I was in the Cardassian Galor class. "You still aren't seeing a Federation vessel, sir"

jonsills

I'm just waiting for the Aetherian double-cross. They seem a little too "helpful" with all this universe-jumping, you know? My spidey-sense is tingling...

I was a little surprised by the Control Borg queen - I was half-expecting it to turn out to be Kuumaarke herself. Other hand, when she was excusing herself from the expedition, my personal reply was, "You just came up with warp drive like, what, a year ago? Two? It's cool for you to sit this one out."

gatsp33d

I was disappointed with this episode, it could of used some iconian heralds helping us in the begging especially since we are messing around with their technology. maybe and inquisitor in an obelisk carrier with a defiler for the ground part that would have been neat but i think cryptic forgot about the iconian arc and presumed them dead for some reason.

spoiler alert the borg queen had incorrect ears.

dragon

Ironically, the only thing I liked about the mission from a writing standpoint was the way Sela was handled.

splatty

All I'll say is that its a typical Geko written mission before he left. I expect he's trying to figure out how to get Denise Crosby into the new franchise he's working for.

And that stupid pet shuttle can't even be put into the bank with the other pets so wasting an inv slot till they fix that.

arabatur

The reward seems underwhelming to me and would of only ended up in my bank (which apparently it currently cannot!). Coupled with an event that holds no interest, having already got all the rewards earlier, I'll wait until the next episode.

leemwatson

gatsp33d wrote: »

I was disappointed with this episode, it could of used some iconian heralds helping us in the begging especially since we are messing around with their technology. maybe and inquisitor in an obelisk carrier with a defiler for the ground part that would have been neat but i think cryptic forgot about the iconian arc and presumed them dead for some reason.

spoiler alert the borg queen had incorrect ears.

These Iconians were of a different universe, why would they have Heralds? Cryptic did not forget about our Iconians, they are technically in hiding.

leemwatson

arabatur wrote: »

The reward seems underwhelming to me and would of only ended up in my bank (which apparently it currently cannot!). Coupled with an event that holds no interest, having already got all the rewards earlier, I'll wait until the next episode.

TBH, I'm buying this one out too. Event fatigue is huge this year...lol.

fleetcaptain5

splatty wrote: »

All I'll say is that its a typical Geko written mission before he left. I expect he's trying to figure out how to get Denise Crosby into the new franchise he's working for.

And that stupid pet shuttle can't even be put into the bank with the other pets so wasting an inv slot till they fix that.

Funny observation regarding Geko: it seems that in the alternate universe, our president Okeg is merely a lt. Gecko aboard the Enterprise.

spiritborn

jonsills wrote: »

I'm just waiting for the Aetherian double-cross. They seem a little too "helpful" with all this universe-jumping, you know? My spidey-sense is tingling...

I think that "Aetherians are actually evil" is a bit too obvious a twist, personally I'd prefer that they're just as good as they seem but in naive way where they won't get that their way might not be the best possible solution.

duncanidaho11

arabatur wrote: »

The reward seems underwhelming to me and would of only ended up in my bank (which apparently it currently cannot!). Coupled with an event that holds no interest, having already got all the rewards earlier, I'll wait until the next episode.

With 500 lobi on offer (which to get normally is ~8-10k zen) I don't think this is a common reaction. Like, we don't have a big individual episode reward payout but there's some massive stuff on offer from the event. For anyone who didn't get the Bajoran raider on its original event, it basically means account unlocked DOMINO. Personally, episode rewards are *nice* but unless its a costume item I'm generally not paying much attention. And we're at a point in the Cryptic-DECA transition where the STO team is not working at full staff as veterans leave and newbies aren't fully online. So we don't have as much bespoke gear on offer (the dev time simply isn't available ATM. See also opting for an infinity box update vs. a multiverse lock box) but there's some biiig compensations in the unprecedented event rewards. It's a very reasonable state, no matter where someone is personally on burnout.

Again, while we could act like nothing at all's changed and its business as usual for STO: it's not, we're in a historic shift and that's going to come with some downsides before DECA can start producing content at Cryptic's regular standard. React accordingly. The sky isn't falling for the game, but what a reasonable expectation is for content volume is going to shift a bit for this and likely the next few seasons (hitting heterogeneously as certain areas are going to see issues and recovery at different times than others, as their related devs move out from Cryptic and come online at DECA.) One should expect lighter content for a bit as the STO team tries their best under these imposed circumstances, and shift focuses from novelty for novelty's sake (ie. "I'm only happy when my neurochemicals go fizz at the sight of a new bit of boff fodder") to more substantive facets of why STO matters to us (ex. legacy systems, legacy content, unparalleled player creative initiative, and the narrative vision provided by now generations of designers).

Eg. "What have you done for me lately?" isn't the best way to look at this stuff. Context is for kings isn't whistling dixie. It's how you stay sane while the world happens at you.

spiritborn wrote: »

jonsills wrote: »

I'm just waiting for the Aetherian double-cross. They seem a little too "helpful" with all this universe-jumping, you know? My spidey-sense is tingling...

I think that "Aetherians are actually evil" is a bit too obvious a twist, personally I'd prefer that they're just as good as they seem but in naive way where they won't get that their way might not be the best possible solution.

It's obvious but then again we haven't seen too much subtlety in arc structure in a while. For example: I thought that J'ula was a foil for the player character we'd eventually team up with on day one of AOD. I didn't bat an eye when J'mpok turned on us in the KDF civil war (because I was one of the few who actually remembered his characterization for the path to 2409...) The biggest surprise personally was Emperor Crusher *not* getting killed off at the end of the Terran arc. Twists in STO tend to be confirmation of characterization (not yet hammered to the nth degree) or expected narrative shifts for the place of an episode in an arc's structure (ex. "2-4 episodes remain and we're moving towards the resolution of our current focus? Yeah a twist is absolutely going to happen here.")

Where Cryptic works best is in how it finds new angles on old stories. See. Measure of Morality and Midnight. It's working with audience reactions to seeing stuff they know shifted a bit and presented in new ways. See. Bluegill as an Iconian prelude, Hur'Q as a Dominion project, and Emperor Crusher (everything about). In that the current multiverse arc should be gold for finding these new facets, but you do have a team distracted by its decreed dissolution by corporate shenanigans. The Aetherians could be intended to play out as a *dark reflection on the Federation* or a new ally that embodies at a greater scale the general Trek principle that future is a slow motion galactic hug in progress with the odd rough patch. But, given shenanigans, either characterization could be incompletely drawn ATM by a team that's not been given a headspace fit for their talents, resulting in unclear creative goal. Are they being obvious with a twist or simple with an ally? I have no idea. And with the loss of some senior folks (ex. Geko), plans could certainty have changed between the Aetherian's end points.

So yeah at this point I really don't know how the Aetherians will play out. I've wanted them to be an eventual villain (to provide a more complex foil for the Alliance/Federation than the Dominion ultimately gave DS9, it's the one thing they're best suited for structurally) but...a galactic-scale hug sounds better and better under these circumstances.

rattler2

We did learn one bit of interesting background about the Aetherians though. The Aetherian Captain actually said his people had been decimated by the Borg in the past.

Most might see that as a throwaway line, but I think there's more to it than that. It could show a motivation behind why the Aetherians see the Borg as such a threat. Because they were at one time targeted by the Borg of their universe.

You know... thinking about that, and Kumaaarke's trauma... could be something there.