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Last nights not so random tfo's
krisxr400
Member Posts: 154 Arc User
I played 8 random tfo's last night, here's how it went- forged in fire, counterpoint, forged in fire, counterpoint, forged in fire, counterpoint, forged in fire, counterpoint... went to play another random aaaaaaand forged in fire. I quit the tfo at the beginning of the briefing. I just couldn't take it anymore. Not only was it not random, the teams had zero regard for side objectives, like they were just rushing through to finish it rather than actually playing the mission. It was super hard to to even find the captives on forged in fire with all of the vfx spam. Seriously i could not even see the captives most of the time because i cant even see my toon or any surroundings. This was every run of forged in fire. Which i do like to play and is a good tfo... wait, is that Kurland?
On counterpoint it wasn't as bad but still wasn't good either, oblivious to the objectives, or just running the tfo and not "playing" it. Players sitting still 9k from the mirror terok nor, idk maybe some bot spamming abilities, no one keeping ds9's shields or hit points up, and only a cple of players running ground assault troops over. Mobs of enemies over ds9 and only one other player trying to keep them off. Do people play video games anymore, or do video games play them?
I'm curious if anyone else had this experience last night, or am i the only lucky one?
On counterpoint it wasn't as bad but still wasn't good either, oblivious to the objectives, or just running the tfo and not "playing" it. Players sitting still 9k from the mirror terok nor, idk maybe some bot spamming abilities, no one keeping ds9's shields or hit points up, and only a cple of players running ground assault troops over. Mobs of enemies over ds9 and only one other player trying to keep them off. Do people play video games anymore, or do video games play them?
I'm curious if anyone else had this experience last night, or am i the only lucky one?
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Players in general don't care about optionals. Especially on the ground.
Anyone who has played Infected: Manus will confirm this.
And, to be honest, the Forged in Fire optional is very hard to get. Last time I played it, I specifically tried to get it and checked every corner I could see, I only got to 19 out of 20 operatives. Are we even sure it doesn't bug out at times?
It's why I generally avoid the system entirely whenever there's a specific mission for the Universal Endeavour, that I don't want to end up in multiple times. Because you simply know you'll be playing the same stuff all day long.
My proposal would be to implement a similar cooldown for RTFO's. Maybe a bit longer too, make it a cooldown of 1 hour or even 2. So that players can't end up in the same mission within those 1 or 2 hours if they queue through the RTFO system.
Also: include more missions in it. I don't think I've ever ended up in missions like Fleet Alert, Starbase Incursion, Undine Assault or similar missions. It's nearly always Azure Nebula, Defense of SB 1 (both understandable as they're good beginner's missions) or a Borg space TFO (especially Borg Disconnected - as if I should believe that people queue for this all the time).
The system certainly could use a bit more randomness from the perspective of those using it.
@fleetcaptain5#1134 I agree with everything you stated. I miss the old fleet starbase tfos and many others really. I have qued for the old tfos in the past, and hours have past and not one of them pop. So i think you're right in saying not all tfos are are on the random list. Yes thursday night was the tail end of the forged in fire endeavor. I also get azure nebula, romulan minefield, sb1 (both versions) waaaaay too often.
@vetteguy904 It just isn't any fun is it? I've asked myself many times why would a "player" que up and not "play"? It's like an epidemic. I do get a kind of get a kick at watching them pop and either not spawn back in or pop a few more times before the tfo is over. It's not a very good kick and kinda spiteful on my behalf.
The older days before, i'd say 2018, it wasnt like this and only an occasional afker. Thanks for the acknowledgment you two, at least i don't feel like i'm the only one standing out in the crowd who actually enjoys playing games.
make it 20 hours be done with it
@krisxr400 they need to toughen the AFK penalty. not only increase the penalty to 24 hours, but block the ip/mac address so they don't just jump over to another toon
IP blocking doesn't work anymore, everyone and their dog has VPNs nowadays so changing one's IP address is less than trivial. Then there is also the problem that if one person gets that penalty for any reason then everyone in the household gets it too, which is not fair to the other players no matter how you look at it.
Also being too aggressive with doing something so players don't "just jump over to another toon" just results in them jumping to another game, which at the very least loses STO player-hours for the day and the income that can generate for the game.
Also, unless connectivity is absolutely perfect (an issue STO struggles with like a number of other games) it is all too possible to get an AFK or leaver's penalty though no fault of the player, and the players will only tolerate that for so long before leaving the game entirely, and if they get annoyed enough about it then it is often years before they come back, if at all.
The fact is, there is simply no way to tell whether a lack of input or lower than expected DPS is the player deliberately trolling or if they are suffering from technical difficulties. So, what mechanism could even be used to try and "get tough" about it without too many false positives?
As to the randomness of RTFOs, they never are actually random, it is just a convenient name to call the mechanism for rewarding people for being willing to take on any TFO that is slow to fill up otherwise instead of queuing for a specific TFO themselves. Most games with the "random" queuing thing are the same way.
I do have a thought though about allowing other software to spam your abilities tray, don't allow it. I know on console you need this ability, the difference being it's cryptics own programing, and its a platform that absolutely needs it. Part of the game play is picking the right right ability to use at the right moment. Hitting space bar (or whatever it is that triggers the spamming) isn't really playing, in my opinion. I know there's alot of abilities, gosh there's probably at least half a dozen i don't even bother to put in the skill tray. Either it's not necessary, redundant, or i never use it anyways. I don't think there is that many in the skill tray to justify needing spam bot software (i honestly don't know what this software is called). I know it's been around since almost the beginning of sto, just wasn't used as a tool then to afk, but now is exploited in mass. I make that last statement because i can't remember seeing any player sitting still and not participating in a mission in those days.
Not allowing that type of software i think would make it way more difficult to afk on a team with players that actually want to play a game with others.
Meanwhile Vega Underground Facility is broken and still remains in the rotation as though no one cares about their product.
As for the Obtrusive Visual Effects I've been given the impression that that topic is not permitted on these forums.
Where my concerns might seem to differ is that in Jupiter Iratus, for example, I park and hold my ground guarding the satellites while everyone else prefers to zip around chasing the BOOM BOOM. While there, I can easily send my fighters to take out data miners. (FULL DISCLOSURE: I park and use my pets in many instances where I find it is the appropriate tactic to employ. I also transfer troops to Terok Nor, defend DS9, and shut down portals to expand on an example cited elsewhere.)
But it's really the same issue; Some players seem uninterested in playing the game. I would chalk it up to those who may be new, but that many new players with that much visual noise generation... Well it's an interesting coincidence. I'm sure there's nothing to it.
I had one of those on the team in Guillotine. They didn't do anything except creating a pink bubble. Even though that won't lead to any mission progress whatsoever, since those stichting anchors need to be deployed first...
So yeah. As long as this is tolerated, I'm fine with other players going AFK too. It would be kind of hypocritical to specifically enable lazyness and AFK'ing in one instance and then punish others when they're basically doing the same - i.e., nothing.
Surely, you understand why my dog took precedence over someone getting 55 Reputation Marks from a TFO which they could play again 30 minutes later. And if you willfully refuse to understand me, then I may not be playing STO with the correct fanbase.
If the above opinion makes me unpopular around here, so be it. BTW, I routinely spend about $100.00 per month on this game. Doing my part to keep the lights on. I'm willing to post the bank statements here to prove this.
What are you doing to help? Unh hunh. thought so.
@fleetcaptain5#1134 I agree with your statement about the jelly fish, idk why they'd design a ship that promotes afk behavior. If this is the state of the player base for any game then its not really playing a game, it's more like the game is playing the player base, to log in and open their wallets up wider and wider.
@theboxisred Idk why they would ban the topic of vfx/sfx, it is obnoxious, more like magic games, and i wish they would enable a feature that players could decide what to turn on and off, or be able to make it as transparent/quiet as the user wants it. It's turned me off and definitely curtailed my amount of playing the game. I think in a situation that you described in jupiter iratus isnt afking, you're on the objective and sending pets to another objective, sounds like fun playing to me. Sic'em! lol
Often in games that have that kind of tank they have the form of an actual tank that transforms into an area-denial turret with a shield or whatever that other units can take advantage of to get out of the rain of enemy fire and heal/repair themselves, or as channeled auras where they sacrifice most or all of their mobility to provide that (relatively) safe haven (ESO has some support/tank powers like that).
If the player fielding the Jellyfish is just sitting there while dug in then they are not doing it right, they should be using their support abilities to heal other player's ships and indirect attack abilities (like the Voth power crystal and fleet summons stuff, various science attacks that are not shut down by digging in, etc.) to help with the fight and increase the odds of keeping aggro (not easy in STO).
The thing is, a lot of STO players are not that familiar with the trinity concept and have no idea what to do with the more unusual units from that concept (and the aggro system being so broken in STO does not help either). Of course, there is also that weird segment of the playerbase others have mentioned who for some unknown reason seem to think afk'ing is somehow cool, but they do it with all sorts of ships and not just the Jellyfish.
I generally try to get side objectives, and I've found that typically there's a mix in TFOs. Many side objectives can be completed just by killing everything very fast; Forged in Fire is relatively unique in that the secondary objective is going to click on glowies, which is usually a main objective timegate. And in many cases the secondary objective really doesn't matter, especially if you're not doing Elite TFOs where they are a failure condition. Who cares about losing a few extra marks, when you're going after the main reward or an endeavour? And the daily boost of marks for each type is the same amount regardless of how many the TFO actually rewards.
So I would imagine that some people do just want to get through the TFO for the rewards—or perhaps they also had the same TFO 5 times in a row, and just didn't care about secondary objectives and tried to get it over with ASAP (instead of quitting during the briefing
Certainly "spam bots" aren't permitted as it's automation but don't confuse that sort of thing with PC players who use Cryptic's own keybind system in order to sequentially activate a tray's worth of abilities (one key press per individual ability activation). Yes we are "playing" and yes, we are in full manual control of our ships.
Why do we do this?
Because it helps makes things FAR EASIER as compared to the LOSS OF FOCUS associated with clicking on four to eight or more bridge officer abilities, repetitively, that are used all the time and as soon as they're available until the map is empty of enemies.
But I have an exceptional amount of coordination and dexterity so Shirley a basic keybind isn't for me?
Humans aren't good at multitasking. This is why we crash into things when driving an automobile and texting. To make things even worse cooldown management skills such as Photonic Officer make these same often used boff skills cool down even faster so that they're available for use more often so now there's even *more* frantic clicking involved
What key should I use to activate commonly used bridge officer abilities?
You can use a single key of your choice or the space bar.
What skills should I put on my keybind?
Photonic Officer --> Emergency Power to Weapons --> Beam or Cannon firing mode --> Attack Pattern Beta
The four boff skills above are a good start. It's a standard offensive rotation. But also consider tactical team, Kemocite Laced Weaponry, Attack Pattern Alpha, Go Down Fighting, torpedo skills, Brace for Impact, and possibly more. It can be over a full tray. No, it doesn't really matter if you put Photonic Officer first or last.
Luckily I captain a science ship so this doesn't apply to me?
For science ships the spam button becomes an "anomaly button". Trigger gravity well separately then put your anomalies and photonic officer in the tray for your spam button. Leave two of them out to trigger manually so as to keep them ready after the rest are fired off as there's a short gap in cooldowns so having a couple in reserve can be handy. DSR is a favorite for triggering manually.
(manual Gravity Well) --> (anomaly button) Photonic Officer --> Anomaly #1 --> Anomaly #2 --> Anomaly #3 --> Anomaly #4 --> torpedo spread! (and repeat)
Shirley this is something that's very complicated and only for uberdeepz players?
Nah. Watch two short videos and take 45 minutes to get set up. My mom uses a basic keybind and really likes it. She'll be 89 later this month. She says it makes things easier because instead of frantically trying to click on things all she has to do is tap a single key. She even said her parse went up now that she has more focus and attention available to pilot her ship
I already use a basic keybind is there anything else I can do?
Putting the ship's throttle on the mouse scroll wheel can go a long way in further quieting down excessive key presses. My mom says it's easier on her arthritis too.
But I can text and drive just fine!
I'm not saying they banned the subject, but to go into further detail would be a violation of the Forum Rules and I try not to do that. I, too, wish we could dial down "noise," but it seems we only ever get more of it.
That was my point, sort of, that staying still doesn't necessarily equal going AFK, though it can be easy to confuse the two at times.
I've never understood the desire some people have to defecate on other people's fun, but there are many ways to do unknowingly. Ever go into The Ninth Rule (I may be wrong about the name of the patrol) and find that you are teamed with someone randomly? I always assume that they are looking for vendor trash so I default everything to them since I'm pretty well set up in game. Or I try not to go in and just wipe the enemies out so that the other player can get some Shooty Boom Boom in as well.
Meanwhile, as someone else said, Random means Random. It does not mean Fill Out Someone Else's Queue. I can, however, see the value in doing so. It would certainly be nice if the older fun content didn't seem to be disincluded.
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@protoneous You know I never had a problem in the past with a program that activates your abilities tray in a fashion the player tells it to. When I first heard of them years ago I watched a youtube video demonstrating the software, i thought it was neat and considered using one myself. I totally agree with your post, and don't think these programs are bad, i think the player exploiting it is... well... kinda lame. And my suggestion to not allow them would impact players that need, enjoy, or enhance their game experience. Soooo ya, not a good solution. I enjoyed your post and i did almost spit my coffee out when i clicked your spoiler! so thanks for that! lol
About the random button, i always thought i was being put into tfos that someone probably picked, and maybe some tfo's that five other random players hit and we actually got something that wasn't picked. I do think though there must be another factor, because for the five or so years they've had this feature there are certain tfos i have never got. I know I have qued for some of these tfo's in the past and they never launch.
@phoenixc#0738 You know when that ship came out, afk boat was not my first impression of the ship, i thought it was neat, nostalgic, and unique. On day two of the reward the chat was full of how to exploit the ship, friggin face palm. I am not crazy about the visuals, which is the main reason i haven't flown it, i do like the premise and if it didn't have such a dominant visual i'd be fine with it and actually play around with it.
Side not about secondary objectives- I don't play them just for the marks, i play them because they are a part of the mission, they add an extra element to game play, and an extra element to my imagination. It's part of what makes the game/tfo a game.
Crashing into things doesn't matter in STO though.
Anyway, nice way of turning things around and suggesting that, instead of the game being - apparently - too difficult for some people to play without keybinds, it's actually the players who don't use them who are failing.
It's not a very convincing message though. You'd better stick to giving what I assume to be solid advice, instead of judging.
Something about this thread has a bad vibe about it. It wasn't my intent to add to that bad vibe but apparently I did. I apologize.
The programming for using a keybind is from Cryptic as it's built into the game (PC). The user is only recording some parameters to define things (i.e. which key to use on which tray) on an external text file. A living and breathing Captain is needed to use this system (this is important) as they are the ones manually activating their abilities.
The last stickied thread on the topic is sadly from 2014. I know that at about the same time I declared the entire thing "too complicated" which is also sad as it led me to conclude that *any* style of bridge officer cooldown was too much as it required me to click on things even faster. I'm sorry I came to that conclusion back then.
Thanks to some good people things are different now though. There are several great videos available on how to get set up as well as some software that creates the text file.
I don't know why anybody would suggest not allowing this but assume it's due to some sort of misunderstanding on the role a keybind plays. The primary focus of a keybind is to simplify things. It has nothing to do with automation, exploits, or any other unmentionables.
I know that after spending an hour or so to get set up the results have been very significant. Now all that's required to keep a basic rotation going is tapping a single key. This seems to allow significantly more time for other things.
Posted for clarity
Well, it's a complaint about a system that isn't giving the outcomes people (and I) desire.
In a lot of threads it's your posts that seem to contain a larger than average dose of common sense. Thank you for that.
I hope the random system gives more favorable outcomes for those concerned soon.
Thank you
I see a good discussion about some fairly new occurrences in game, myself.
For example, and I don't know how or even if this is related directly to the topic at hand, I did a random instance of Cure Found on Normal difficulty and in the time it took me to pop two of the Assimilators connected to the shipyards, the other four players had yet to pop the third. That was with all the visual noise consoles at their disposal, but no Jellyfish.
The part I find odd is that while I do chase the DPS a bit I'm not the guy studying six combat parsers to get that one extra point.
So I figure I've either crossed some kind of DPS threshold after 10-ish years or the other players were completely new/inept and speed leveled, or they are sight-seeing griefers.
So it appears to me that these concerns are not strictly limited to Advanced or Elite level content.
I also wonder if this is in any way related to the sudden influx of Player Characters I see on ESD who seem to love Clashing Color Schemes. For just a second my brain says, "Bots! We've been invaded by Bots!" But I discard that once I notice a player name that makes sense.
Unless... (Pause for Effect)
The bots are being programed to be less identifiable linguistically in the application of their nomenclature!
NON-SEQUITUR: Read the whole of the library, my boy, but the cheese will still smell after four days.
I'm getting that bad vibe again
I think it's mostly new players. I play normal difficulty quite a bit myself (as I don't always need the extra rewards, so why not play more casually/relaxed?) and I've noticed more players not knowing certain things. Going left to right in Infected Space, for example. Or running away because Leeta told you so, despite first having to defeat Quinn one more time in Operation Wolf.
Similarly, players not understanding they need to place crystals and then guard those (instead of running to the next one) in Pahvo Dissension. Or that they can split up in teams of 2 (I'm usually happy being the fifth, solo guy) instead of going to one location with 4.
The other day, I even played an Into the Hive where a number of players were just running around (edit: while looking for enemies), apparently not knowing they had to deactivate the consoles in the 8 corners.
It's not typical trolling behaviour, nor do they seem to be bots as their behaviour is probably too advanced for that. Most of these things are, I think, more indicative of players being new.