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So, is it Tac or nothing?

ericsonxxericsonxx Member Posts: 253 Arc User
Being back at the game, I've had multiple people tell me that at this point,it's Tac Captain or nothing. Since I enjoy the concept of fun, I might as well ask-is that what it's come to in the 8 years since I last played?
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

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  • edited May 2022
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited May 2022
    It flat out doesn't matter.

    Even if you're interested in the absolute top of the heap.. here are the current DPS records from STO-League for each class:

    Tactical DPS Record - 1096k
    Engineering DPS Record - 1094k
    Science DPS Record - 928k

    Those are all so close together.. it's a wash. And that's the top DPS using coordinated team runs where everyone is min/maxing every single point trying to get even a 1pt increase per run. For the average or 'normal' player, the difference will be even less.

    Play what you want.. all 3 classes are effective and if someone tells you something like 'Engineers suck because they can't put out good DPS,' smile.. nod.. and put that person on ignore because they have no idea what they're talking about.

    All the classes are fine, class shaming is for idiots.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • ericsonxxericsonxx Member Posts: 253 Arc User
    It flat out doesn't matter.

    Even if you're interested in the absolute top of the heap.. here are the current DPS records from STO-League for each class:

    Tactical DPS Record - 1096k
    Engineering DPS Record - 1094k
    Science DPS Record - 928k

    Those are all so close together.. it's a wash. And that's the top DPS using coordinated team runs where everyone is min/maxing every single point trying to get even a 1pt increase per run. For the average or 'normal' player, the difference will be even less.

    Play what you want.. all 3 classes are effective and if someone tells you something like 'Engineers suck because they can't put out good DPS,' smile.. nod.. and put that person on ignore because they have no idea what they're talking about.

    All the classes are fine, class shaming is for idiots.

    Oh good, because I got told that I was gonna try a Eng captain flying Sci ships that I'm wasting my time. Ok, thanks!
  • edited May 2022
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    westmetals wrote: »
    ericsonxx wrote: »
    It flat out doesn't matter.

    Even if you're interested in the absolute top of the heap.. here are the current DPS records from STO-League for each class:

    Tactical DPS Record - 1096k
    Engineering DPS Record - 1094k
    Science DPS Record - 928k

    Those are all so close together.. it's a wash. And that's the top DPS using coordinated team runs where everyone is min/maxing every single point trying to get even a 1pt increase per run. For the average or 'normal' player, the difference will be even less.

    Play what you want.. all 3 classes are effective and if someone tells you something like 'Engineers suck because they can't put out good DPS,' smile.. nod.. and put that person on ignore because they have no idea what they're talking about.

    All the classes are fine, class shaming is for idiots.

    Oh good, because I got told that I was gonna try a Eng captain flying Sci ships that I'm wasting my time. Ok, thanks!

    As mentioned above. It's a matter of a few percent - maybe less.

    For example... assuming a two-tac-BOFF ship layout... Romulan faction (regardless of profession) has access to about +4 critical hit and +10 critical severity, above and beyond what anyone else can slot (because the other factions can't get sci or eng SRO BOFFs, though the number I'm giving does account for using the JHV BOFFs in two of those places), but even that is deceptive because there are alternative BOFFs which could have other damage bonuses.

    He's right, I have a Romulan Engineer that out performs all but my most high end tactical builds. She's also near un-killable at the same time.. really fun to play.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited May 2022
    It's really much more dependent on making a good build and knowing how to use it. (as the previous posts have demonstrated)

    Now, it might be that Tac can do better with a bad build. Or that it's easier to make an okay build with it (don't know about that one, I'm no build guru). So that might be the source of people saying "it's Tac or nothing!" /shrug
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,367 Arc User
    My main is an engineer so they're perfectly viable for normal play (my AoY toon is a SCI char and she remained viable even when I swapped her to phasers but forgot to swap my tac consoles, something I've done now).

    As others have said how you play matters far more then what class you play, your race and class really only matters in the hyper optimized top of the heap coordinated runs where everyone is trying to min/max every last drop of performance out of their ships and even then who's really on top might change with each patch.

    Sure it's possible to build in a way that makes your character unviable even for normal play, but that generally means totally ignoring any possible gear synergies and generally just choosing your gear very poorly, with your race, class or ship type not really mattering as even a Romulan captain with as many SRO as they can wield cannot make one these builds into a viable one.
  • garaffegaraffe Member Posts: 1,353 Arc User
    > @ericsonxx said:
    > Oh good, because I got told that I was gonna try a Eng captain flying Sci ships that I'm wasting my time. Ok, thanks!

    I have an engineer that flies the Tholian carrier and focuses on exotic damage. Really effective in all content.
  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,788 Arc User
    To add to what WestMetals and SeaOfSorrows said, an Engineer also has the benefit of essentially cancelling out the biggest drawback that Romulans have, and that is less energy for Romulan Ship Power Levels. It's a good Profession for that Faction.

    If you are going to be doing Sci Magic, just don't go for the Science Ultimate ability from the Skill Tree. It sets your Critical Hit Rate to a fixed number. With a Romulan and a good build, that could potentially make your Crit Rate worse.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,468 Arc User
    ericsonxx wrote: »
    Being back at the game, I've had multiple people tell me that at this point,it's Tac Captain or nothing. Since I enjoy the concept of fun, I might as well ask-is that what it's come to in the 8 years since I last played?

    Simply no. I prefer Sci, Eng then Tac (of which out of 25 toons, I have only 2). It's purely your choice. Don't be brow-beaten into following what someone else says is 'best', as in STO, as long as you have even common MK XV equipment, you'll survive and contribute greatly enough. The game is not a sprint, and you're not competing against other captain, unless you want to in PvP matches and Competitive Queues.

    So take your time, find out what works for YOU, and enjoy!
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
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  • dragon#2626 dragon Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    Depends on what you're after, I suppose. Tac is obviously the best for straight DPS, though Sci I gather can be good with the right build. Eng in my experience is best for raw survivability; I have an engineer in a Tucker-class miracle worker ship with a full Borg-style setup, resulting in a defensive beast.
    I swim through a sea of stars. . . .
  • edited May 2022
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  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,807 Community Moderator
    To answer the question, if anyone tells you it's "tac or nothing" they're straight up lying to you and don't know enough about this game to be advising you on anything to do with builds. Any of the 3 captain types, Tac, Eng, Sci can be made to deal great damage and survive. It's a matter of what ship you pick, the gear you put on it, and how you fly said ship. When you're picking a captain, basically what you're choosing between is the innate captain abilities. Otherwise there is no real difference between the captain types.

    Tactical captains get more built in damage boosting abilities such as Attack Pattern Alpha, but that alone doesn't guarantee them an edge. It simply means they don't have to invest as much into that type of damage boosting. Engineer captains have more innate damage reducing and healing abilities, meaning they don't have to invest as much into mega healing survival type abilities. Sci captains get some bits of debuffing and damage reducing, meaning they don't have to invest as much into that area. Pretty much, pick the set of baseline powers you like best, pick a ship and build and roll with it.

    Tac will potentially have an easier time with certain build styles due to their innate damage buffing abilities, but that's where what is "best" ends. Use what you like.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    All three can be made to be top tier.

    Only real advantage a tac perhaps has is how easy it is to do mid range damage. With proper building and leaning into Engi/Sci strengths the differences are small.

    As to the Engi in a sci ship idea... yes it can work well. Just understand your abilities and what sci powers are effected by aux power. A EPS powered GW can hit just as hard as one powered by APA.
  • faelon#8433 faelon Member Posts: 358 Arc User
    ericsonxx wrote: »
    Being back at the game, I've had multiple people tell me that at this point,it's Tac Captain or nothing. Since I enjoy the concept of fun, I might as well ask-is that what it's come to in the 8 years since I last played?

    If you are chasing the ever more insane DPS monkey trying to kill Tac cubes in ever harder to parse microseconds, then you want TAC. But for doing all of the rest of the game at any level all three specs work. Although Engineering Captain Space abilities remain a bit underpowered and inadequate in the endgame. And do desperately need a bit of dev love.

    Honestly I find as far as gameplay your career choice has way more impact on your ground game play style. While TAC may still pull higher numbers I find Sci or Eng more fun with a bit more to do. (Sci being fun on the ground benefits heavily from this years winter holiday event ground set and some matching kit modules. You can be a Frost Mage!)

    For space how you build your ship will have far more impact than your career choice for 99% of the player base. Unless you are seeking the absolute highest DPS parse in ICE.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,485 Arc User
    It flat out doesn't matter.

    Even if you're interested in the absolute top of the heap.. here are the current DPS records from STO-League for each class:

    Tactical DPS Record - 1096k
    Engineering DPS Record - 1094k
    Science DPS Record - 928k

    Those are all so close together.. it's a wash. And that's the top DPS using coordinated team runs where everyone is min/maxing every single point trying to get even a 1pt increase per run. For the average or 'normal' player, the difference will be even less.

    Play what you want.. all 3 classes are effective and if someone tells you something like 'Engineers suck because they can't put out good DPS,' smile.. nod.. and put that person on ignore because they have no idea what they're talking about.

    All the classes are fine, class shaming is for idiots.

    My main is an engineer and i often support the team while doing enough damage to clear maps in seconds.
    That said, i am interested in the record build for engineering simply to find out how he/she worked around the disadvantage not having things like go down fighting etc.

    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • sierra078sierra078 Member Posts: 335 Arc User
    It really depends on what you want your expirance to be. Do you want to fly in and have ships blow up if you look at them funny? Fly tac definatly. Want to use space magic to suck everything together and hit them with a fungal version of the death star laser? Fly Science. If you want to survive massive hits while putting out decent damage Fly Eng.
  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,694 Arc User
    I personally think a sci should fly a sci, but that's because of the bonus traits, like photonic capacitor and conservation of Energy, one booting EPG damage the other reducing photonic fleet. Some will poo poo PF but it's not only additional DPS, but the fleet can distract the enemy. and any time you are not under fire it's a good thing
    We Want Vic Fontaine
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,577 Community Moderator
    Photo Fleet isn't dependant on a Sci ship though. Its a Captain skill that can be used on ANY ship. And yea, that is not only extra DPS, its more targets to distract the enemy with, allowing a Sci Captain some breathing room. Combine that with Fleet Support (preferably with Superior Command Frequency to knock out the 50% HP requirement and reduce cooldown) and you got your own little armada helping you.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 1,221 Arc User
    ericsonxx wrote: »
    Being back at the game, I've had multiple people tell me that at this point,it's Tac Captain or nothing. Since I enjoy the concept of fun, I might as well ask-is that what it's come to in the 8 years since I last played?

    As somebody who has played the game since a while and having maxed out chars. Here is what I m going to say: The hell with it. Play what you want to play and fly what ship you want to fly its all doable. It takes a little research on google or youtube to find what works best and from there just build it the way you want it and have fun while you are at it. The secret is to have fun so go for it.

    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,577 Community Moderator
    As somebody who has played the game since a while and having maxed out chars. Here is what I m going to say: The hell with it. Play what you want to play and fly what ship you want to fly its all doable. It takes a little research on google or youtube to find what works best and from there just build it the way you want it and have fun while you are at it. The secret is to have fun so go for it.

    blow-a-kiss-q-star-trek.gif
    Couldn't have said it better myself. Play what you want and have fun doing it.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
This discussion has been closed.