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Omni turrets
rifter1969
Member Posts: 654 Arc User
OK, so I need some clarification here...
On my ship I currently running an Omni-direction AP beam array (from crafting) and the Ancient Obilesk Omni beam array aft.
I am running Ba'ul APs for the most part, and using the ancient obliesk omni with the the warp core you get from the obilesk carrier for the 2-piece set bonus.
So today, after waiting and saving up lobi crystals i got the Ba'ul linked sentry omni-directional beam array, to go with the Ba'ul linked sentry coordination matrix also from the lobi store.
I also used two of the ultimate upgrade tokens that i got from the Reflections of Empire event, one for the obilesk omni and one for the ba'ul omni.
Now i find out that these two are considered the same, so I cant equip both at the same time.
Umm... thats very uncool. Why can i equip a standard omni-direction beam array that I crafted, with either of the other ones?
I just wasted 400 lobi and two very important upgrade tokens for nothing.
On my ship I currently running an Omni-direction AP beam array (from crafting) and the Ancient Obilesk Omni beam array aft.
I am running Ba'ul APs for the most part, and using the ancient obliesk omni with the the warp core you get from the obilesk carrier for the 2-piece set bonus.
So today, after waiting and saving up lobi crystals i got the Ba'ul linked sentry omni-directional beam array, to go with the Ba'ul linked sentry coordination matrix also from the lobi store.
I also used two of the ultimate upgrade tokens that i got from the Reflections of Empire event, one for the obilesk omni and one for the ba'ul omni.
Now i find out that these two are considered the same, so I cant equip both at the same time.
Umm... thats very uncool. Why can i equip a standard omni-direction beam array that I crafted, with either of the other ones?
I just wasted 400 lobi and two very important upgrade tokens for nothing.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Omni beam array equipping limits are a complex and confusing nightmare that doesn't make sense since:
- Turrets have no limits
- We already give up one proc for the omni wide angle
- Like turrets and cannons, damage is lower for an omni than for beam arrays
- (to physics nit-pickers) turrets shouldn't be able to shoot through the hull either. So omnis being able to is no more magical
So: Cryptic should remove the omni limits and let us run 8 omnis at once if we want.
I dont disagree with you reasons, but I do think there should be a limit... like what @corinthalas wrote:
Having them limited to aft slots is a reasonable compromise.
But please Cryptic, after so many years why can't these work together??!?
If they can work with a crafted one, why do you have put this stupid hidden restriction in?
or an easier way to think on it. You can have 1 with a set bonus and 1 without. You can equip a third Quasi Omni The Kinetic Cutting Beam from Omega Rep isn't technically an Omni as it is Kinetic Damage. And can be equipped alongside 2 Omnis.
I'd settle for that, it would be much better than what we have now.
Personally at this point I think they need to just remove the restriction on omnis as it's a pointless and foolish restriction to have this late in the game's life. Especially considering turrets don't have such a restriction. Some folks may say "but then omnis become the automatic default weapon", but do you honestly think folks chasing the DPS dragon are going to give up 8 copies of the DMG or CRTD mods. Of course they're not. Just like being able to use all turrets isn't the default with cannons, using all omnis wouldn't be the default with beam weapons. If folks want to use all turrets or all omnis it doesn't hurt anyone.
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As said, Omni's already sacrifice a mod for the [ARC] mod, no one is going to create some crazy OP ship by putting 8 Omni Beams on it.. the fear of this is simply ridiculous. The best thing is to just drop the restrictions entirely just like turrets.. no one runs 8 of those either.
A compromise is the above suggestion to remove all equip restrictions but limit them to Aft slots only.. I could get on board with that as well. The current system is pointlessly restrictive and needs to be re-evaluated.
(B.t.w. i would support single cannons both fore and aft)
Yes, that is why the restrictions are in place. It should be removed because the assumption is frankly ridiculous.
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Ok you're not at total loss. Having the lobi set is nice if you like the Ba'ul refraction. You can now have Ba'ul refraction on ALL antiproton weapons. For example I have it on my Herald beam arrays, I believe (not a 100% sure) the weapons proc will also have the 2.5% chance to activate on the refraction bounce, making each shot a double chance to proc the ability.
So there's that little silver lining.
You can also put the Ancient Omni and engine on your shuttle and they will have full effectiveness (though it is true that is close to a waste since very little content is made for shuttles) because they are a two-piece set, and they don't tend to attract as much attention as the bouncing Ba'ul (and its corresponding aggro) which a shuttle should avoid since it cannot take the pounding a ship can.
If the devs are concerned that more than two or three omnis could be a balance problem (and I don't see why they would since they don't seem to be that concerned about balance in general), a good compromise could be to eliminate the esoteric and confusing type restriction and just say any two omnis and the KCB, or better yet any three omnibeams and limited to rear-only placement.
Omnis overall don't have as high base damage as regular beams or even dual banks. So the idea that they're going to replace regular beams is just as bogus as saying turrets are going to replace all cannons. Most DPS chasers simply aren't going to run all omnis even if they could. There are going to be some folks who will run all Omnis on a ship just like some folks that occasionally run all turrets just because they can. Though it will be few and far between.
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The Omega beam is effectively a non weapon, so that doesn't count.
Even the hybrid turret/omni from the morphogenic set falls under the restriction.
Time for it to go. Or make ships like the support carriers (which have nothing going for them) lose the restriction as a trade off for what they lack.
Though I don't doubt the information you received or your source, that does sound like something Cryptic would do, especially in the beginning.
Just for clarity, I am a returning player, I haven't played in a few years for various IRL stuff. But, I did start playing when the game first launched, so I can totally believe that kind of thinking from Cryptic.
I also am not criticizing or doubting any posters here as to the game mechanics side of omnis, yes I know they are weaker than other beam arrays, but... I just like them and from a purely ship construction point of view, they make sense to mount on aft hard points.
But, to simply put this kind of restriction on them is simply outdated thinking in my opinion.
Oh and as far as people mentioning about all omni or turret boats... I actually did see one a long, long time ago, someone did it as a gag, and it was quite amusing to see in combat
But, this restriction should be removed, because if it is from what @darkbladejk mentions, then why do turrets enjoy the lack of it? Won't they fire through the hull too depending on the placement of the target relative to the your ship?
Turrets don't do just a little less dmg... they are basically useless. Omnis are not. Its why Cryptic has produced a handful of Heavy turrets... but they are all one offs so you can't load a ship with heavy turrets.
The restriction on omnis is about game balance. If you fly a big fat cruiser you are supposed to broadside... and not just throw 4 ominis in the back.
I agree that no one running a uber DPS build is going to slot all omins or anything. Still at least the 280 degree arc on cruisers gives players something to do... you do have to pilot at least somewhat... turn does matter. Just setting the entire setup to 360... makes all that pretty pointless from a game play perspective.
I will say this... the new leg jem ship trait might make some of those fat boats a lot more playable if you really want to 360 everything. I mean if your using surgical strikes as an example there is no reason you can't slot 2 heavy turrets and 2 omnis in the back of a Intel cruiser. The specialist firing modes don't care.
I believe allowing for full omni beam setups... just makes the game more boring. I mean turret boats are possible but the DPS is low and the trade. A full omni setup would be no weaker then a full beam array setup. More Arc no trade off really. (not counting specific rep beams and the like)
Perhaps what cryptic should really focus on for the next few months is improving the little used specialist fire modes, tweak the other spec ones now that they tweaked Intel... and perhaps add even more traits. Now that we are going to get a duration extension for them... perhaps some more synergy traits, or even some new doffs could make them a real options. Rather then just allowing 8 omni setups.
No, you can slot them anywhere. This way you can make turret-only builds which were kinda viable years ago because turrets had faster firing cycles and while their DPS was lower, their proc chance was higher due to the faster/shorter firing cycles allowing for niche builds like the protonic polaron-turret carrier. However, that advantage of turrets has been removed in the meantime.
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I sort of miss the 5 man 40 phaser turret... turret boat PvP hilarity. Back when phaser procs didn't lockout new procs and stacked.
No, you can slot them in Fore or Aft slots either one. For that matter you can run all turrets on a ship if you wanted and still do well over 100k DPS with it if you wanted. Not something I'm going to recommend but it can be done.
First welcome back. As for the other stuff, that's what I was told years so I won't swear if that's still the case today or not as to why it hasn't been removed. It may still be accurate and it may not be. That's just the last thing I remember them telling me on that stuff. I also didn't take what you're saying as bashing anyone either, you were just asking a question. I also agree with you on the restriction for omnis needing to be removed as it serves no purpose in todays game. As to why it was only omnis and not turrets, from a programming perspective I would guess that it's not as obvious with turrets. So assuming the hardpoint thing is still the reason then that would be my guess.
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> Definitely not full omni builds. That's simply not necessary. Just restrict them to aft slots only, just like mines -- not only is that an easy restriction to understand and convey to players, but it would improve the game balance. Dual-beam builds would become comparable to dual-cannon builds, while beam boats won't change at all. It's a win-win.
I'd be against limiting tgem to aft only. I have a tractor beam tug-boat build that pulls enemies behind it while laying mines, ejecting warp plasma and shooting targets with omnis that are mounted in the front. I'd lose that. So why not simply removing the limitation entirely? That'd solve the issue, no rules required. Slot 8 crafted or ancient omnis if you want. Easy peasy.
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But yes, just removibg the weird and undocumented restrictions would be a first step.
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