Seven vs. Seven

kayajay

I know that when STO released "Delta Rising" that years before Picard and the new and improved 20-years later Seven of Nine...but we have both versions in the game. It would be nice if STO could show us how Seven went from Delta Rising Seven, to Picard Seven...or, I was thinking maybe get Jeri back for an episode where she interreacts with her younger self.

Seeing more of her and the Fenris Rangers though...that terrific ship, her lesbianism, all her adventures, etc.

Jeri loves Trek, I think she'll always embrace coming back like the dearly missed Denise and anyone who doesn't love Seven is in the minority, so I'd love her to return in STO.

davefenestrator

If the writers can come up with good stories for her character, then sure. I don't feel any need to bring her back just to explain the transition from Picard to Delta though.

evilmark444

Addressing the differences between Delta Rising Seven and Measure of Morality Seven is something that will probably never happen in-game, it's probably best to either write it off as a timeline change caused by one of our temporal adventures, or just accept that STO is a non-canon sandbox where things don't always need to make sense.

rattler2

The official reason is that the Devs decided not to update Seven in the Delta arc so that we can fight alongside both versions of Seven, the one from Voyager and the more human one from Picard.

Personally I feel like, based on when we meet them, the Temporal Arc episode Butterfly had an effect, and thus Voyager Seven becomes Picard Seven between those points. So it could be said that before Butterfly happened, Seven never changed much from her time aboard Voyager. Then after Butterfly... she DID.

In short... we have a ready made explanation in STO in the form of Butterfly. And frankly... they don't really need to address it in game anyways because of it.

lianthelia

rattler2 wrote: »

The official reason is that the Devs decided not to update Seven in the Delta arc so that we can fight alongside both versions of Seven, the one from Voyager and the more human one from Picard.

Personally I feel like, based on when we meet them, the Temporal Arc episode Butterfly had an effect, and thus Voyager Seven becomes Picard Seven between those points. So it could be said that before Butterfly happened, Seven never changed much from her time aboard Voyager. Then after Butterfly... she DID.

In short... we have a ready made explanation in STO in the form of Butterfly. And frankly... they don't really need to address it in game anyways because of it.

More Human, I'm sorry but I got a chuckle out of that...the Seven form Picard lost every ounce of character development she had in Voyager, she was nothing but a thug that drank hard liquor and kicked around dead bodies. Took pleasure in shooting up hundreds of people in the name of a vendetta

horridperson

I just want them to focus on producing good stories that stand on their own merit, and avoid relying on fan service to titillate the easily amused.

A good story might have have room to accommodate a featured character but it's a rare good story begins with, "I want X in a story".

kiralyn

lianthelia wrote: »

More Human, I'm sorry but I got a chuckle out of that...the Seven form Picard lost every ounce of character development she had in Voyager, she was nothing but a thug that drank hard liquor and kicked around dead bodies. Took pleasure in shooting up hundreds of people in the name of a vendetta

Sooooo... more human?

mithrosnomore

No thanks. Don't care.

Seven is not my Captain. The game and the stories should be about our Captains and how the decisions they make help shape the galaxy around them.


A lot of what I disliked about Delta Rising goes back to how the "guest stars" were used, and this has carried into other episodes with other guest stars.

Our Captain should always be the star. Always. It's fine that they need and get help along the way, but that is what our BOFFs are for, to at least some extent.

Zachary Quinto guest-starred as a medical hologram way back at launch.
Leonard Nimoy was used to narrate the state of the galaxy and in a minor way as Spock.

Those were good, I think. They never took away from our Captain as the star of the "show".

Starting with Delta Rising, there was a major shift in how guest stars were used.
They were being forced into our missions and one mission in particular really bothers me...

The one where we go to save the Turei.
How does Seven know that the bodies were killed in a firefight?
She couldn't KNOW. Our captain could have easily speculated that it looked like a firefight and to tell the away team to be alert, but they had Seven announce it as fact and issue that order to my Captain and crew.

And then we get to where we are repairing the planetary defense shield. Seven stands back and tells our Captain (who is almost certainly an Admiral by now) exactly what is wrong and stands around waiting for us to fix it.

What?

If she knows so much about this stuff then why isn't she fixing it? My Captain and crew can fight off a wave or two of Vaadwaur that show up and then move on, but her telling my Captain that I have to do X, then Y, then Z, with her not even giving the consoles a good looking-at is just someone deciding that hearing Jeri Ryan voicing Seven of Nine is the most important part of that entire mission.

Not the story, and certainly not our Captains.

davefenestrator

mithrosnomore wrote: »

No thanks. Don't care.

Seven is not my Captain. The game and the stories should be about our Captains and how the decisions they make help shape the galaxy around them.

If she knows so much about this stuff then why isn't she fixing it? My Captain and crew can fight off a wave or two of Vaadwaur that show up and then move on, but her telling my Captain that I have to do X, then Y, then Z, with her not even giving the consoles a good looking-at is just someone deciding that hearing Jeri Ryan voicing Seven of Nine is the most important part of that entire mission.

Not the story, and certainly not our Captains.

Good points. They handled it better in the Zefram Cochrane episode where we were fellow time agents. She told us what to do to an extent but it was more of a peer relationship and she acted as the tech.

dojihajime

reyan01 wrote: »

somtaawkhar wrote: »

kiralyn wrote: »

Sooooo... more human?

Pretty much.

Seven of Nine in Voyager had the Data problem of being "person who asks questions about really common aspects of existence because she doesn't understand" all the way from her introduction to the end of season 7. While some episodes toyed with the idea of her learning about emotions and such the "episode of the week" format meant it it got totally, or near totally, erased by the next episode, leading to basically zero real character development across the show.

Seven in Picard shows that shes had like a decade+ of time to really learn about things, and has all the typical issues any normal person has from it. She has cared for people, and lost them. She has put her trust in people, and been betrayed by them. She's tried to do the right things, but been limited by the rules around her. She's resorted to drinking to ease her emotions. And she has felt the most human emotion of them all... vengeance.

I have to agree. And to be honest, the much-worshipped TNG was no better. You made reference to Data, and I'll confess..... I, personally, don't like Data. I realise thats a bit like saying "I hate Santa Claus", but I never found him interesting - to me he just provided annoying deus ex machinas and an unconving "person who asks questions about really common aspects of existence because he doesn't understand". I found the latter aspect hard to believe; he attended Starfleet Academy (four years) and served aboard the USS Trieste for 19 years before transfer to the Enterprise-D; I thought it was ridiculous that he could be as oblivious to human behavior as he was, and how he could be TNG's "person who asks questions about really common aspects of existence because he doesn't understand" considering the life experience he should've had to that point.
I found Brent Spiner's portrayal of him to be pretty smug toward the end of the series run too. I didn't really feel anything much when the character was killed in 'Nemesis'. However, I did quite enjoy seeing him in Picard, because the conversation he had with Jean-Luc gave us some character development that had otherwise being lacking and did something that was almost avoided in the episodes - reference to past events.

<sidebar>

<jest> Them's fighting words! </jest>

The Tone of Picard is pretty cynical, all the "main Characters" are disillusion in some manner. Seven fits this show tone, yes it different from Voyager but I think it suppose to be so. The Data point you made I will likely never get. Star Trek always has a outsider, well at least in the first five series. Spock, Data, Odo, The Doctor/ Seven of Nine, and T'pol. An Argument can be Michael is the Outsider on Discovery at least for the season and a half bieng both a "Criminal" and being raise in Vulcan.