Long term Dil sink - Personal Holdings

locutusofcactus

Personal holdings (account wide)

Risa Condo
This concept has been brought up so it's not my idea but fleshing out the details is.
Initial unlock cost: 2 mil Dil + 2 mil GPL (because then there would be something to use GPL on).

• Operates similar to fleet holdings but per account.
• Swimwear allowed on map.
• Invites up to 20 people (no bridge officers).

Base features and optional projects (with project costs):

•Living area (included with condo)
-Large furnishings (280k Dil + 280k GPL)
-Detail furnishings (280k Dil + 280k GPL)

•Bedroom (included with condo)
-Closet (tailor) (280k Dil + 280k GPL)

•Office (280k Dil + 280k GPL)
-Mail/exchange/bank (included with office unlock)

•Dining area (included with condo)
-Food dispenser & furnishings (280k Dil + 280k GPL)

•Cellar (280k Dil + 280k GPL)
-All bottled beverages available (included with cellar unlock)

•Patio (included with condo)
-Patio furnishings (280k Dil + 280k GPL)
-Pool (280k Dil + 280k GPL)

•Beachfront (included with condo)
-Cabana & boardwalks (280k Dil + 280k GPL)
-Power board shack and small ski jump (280k Dil + 280k GPL)

The projects when released for availability (costing 280k dil each) take one week to complete. The projects can be expedited at 10k Dil per remaining day (350k Dil for instant project completion).

Costs:
2 mil Dil initial cost
280k x 10 optional project costs
4.8 mil Dil total with expedition costs up to an additional 700k.
Also, 4.8 mil total GPL costs because GPL (yay, a bonus GPL sink included!)

FAQ:
•"2-4.8 mil Dil? the cost seems too low". While compared to fleet holdings, yes. However, would be per account.
•"2-4.8 mil Dil? the cost seems too high". 4.8 mil Dil gets you 9,600 Zen at 500 Dil/Zen and 18,200 Zen at 250 Dil/Zen. same price as a mid sized c-store ship bundle. Would you rather have another couple of ships or a condo on Risa? Both!

Notes:
*The periodic release of holding projects for availability should coincide with c-store sales when there is a high demand for Zen. The high demand for Dil at the same time should add stability.

*Shooting in the dark on the Dil cost price point. I don't know how much it costs the studio to make this kind of map/holding. And of course they don't get paid when Dil is spent but the 'price point' is in regards to the cost to adding a Dil sink.

*Risian assets can be reused but it will still take a long time to create a holding. In the meantime, as one of the temporary fixes, add packs of 120 lohlunuts as green quality phoenix rewards.

*If the personal holdings pilot project is a success, additional personal holdings can be added in the future.

Not mine but found this art online:

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faxmachine

yeah the devs are well aware what ideas will and wont work. they certainly dont need some wannabe armchair expert helping them understand what ideas will work and what wont. if someone has an idea, post it. if its good the devs might use it. if its not, they wont. what some other player thinks of it doesnt matter one bit.

locutusofcactus

Didn't know they said that in the podcast so now it doesn't sound feasible. I think there would be more demand for it than the metrics would say but didn't know it takes so much work to make a holdings map, add a UI tab, and the other things ect. Sounds like the cost/benefit would be too high.

faxmachine

locutusofcactus wrote: »

Didn't know they said that in the podcast so now it doesn't sound feasible. I think there would be more demand for it than the metrics would say but didn't know it takes so much work to make a holdings map, add a UI tab, and the other things ect. Sounds like the cost/benefit would be too high.

dont worry about what he said. they change their plans all the time and when they said that the dilex wasnt completely broken. who knows what they will do now or in the future. post your ideas and dont let a wannabe armchair expert rain on your parade. keep up the good work!

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horridperson

Housing is one of those build it nobody will come things. The sustainability is contingent on activity and a nice view doesn't translate into that. The podcast comments shed light on the front end time investment but for any area to remain relevant (either as a resource sink or hub) it has to evolve/grow and that means ongoing development. The ship interiors are a case in point that might have made the most appropriate housing for a Trek game. The interiors looked nice but other than a one time tour and a some doff missions they were never grown and failed to generate much interest. I wish it wasn't the case because there is potential with integration but it's probably a dead horse.

locutusofcactus

horridperson wrote: »

Housing is one of those build it nobody will come things. The sustainability is contingent on activity and a nice view doesn't translate into that. The podcast comments shed light on the front end time investment but for any area to remain relevant (either as a resource sink or hub) it has to evolve/grow and that means ongoing development. The ship interiors are a case in point that might have made the most appropriate housing for a Trek game. The interiors looked nice but other than a one time tour and a some doff missions they were never grown and failed to generate much interest. I wish it wasn't the case because there is potential with integration but it's probably a dead horse.

I thought the TNG interior had a ton of stand alone sales before it was in the Picard bundle. I wonder if it wasn't worth it to make the TNG interior in and of itself to sell but in combination with using it in the episodes it was? Makes sense to get a few uses out of the work put in so maybe they would have to use the Risa condo map/location in an episode. The colony holding even triple dips (tfo, episode, and holding)

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vegeta50024

somtaawkhar wrote: »

locutusofcactus wrote: »

I thought the TNG interior had a ton of stand alone sales before it was in the Picard bundle. I wonder if it wasn't worth it to make the TNG interior in and of itself to sell but in combination with using it in the episodes it was? Makes sense to get a few uses out of the work put in so maybe they would have to use the Risa condo map/location in an episode. The colony holding even triple dips (tfo, episode, and holding)

The screen accurate ship interiors sold very poorly from what Cryptic said. Which is why they stopped making them.

Kind of sounds like to me like everyone who WANTS these screen accurate bridges actually wants them for free, right?

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rattler2

Yea... I believe the primary reason for them selling poorly is the lack of things to do in them. Also the bridge packs only have different bridges, and usually all three are variants on a theme. The lower decks of those are still stock.

horridperson

@coldnapalm

I agree. The development of any of the bridges seems to have been treated as a begrudged chore and shows in their implementation. In a sad way it's a bit like like TOS getting into with Space Romans or TRIBBLE. They were leftovers from other productions. The store bridges were created as monetization of assets used in story missions and the other bridges were put together because all ships required at least minimalist functionality due to the few times they were utilized in game story missions (Thank you Haakeev). There seems to have been little thought to implementation that creates immersion or greater integration with the whole of the game. That lack of vision resulted in shortsighted decisions that made a quick buck on the front end but likely soured the community well in the long term. The self fulfilling prophecies here are nothing new. The Klingon faction was a good example of a similar mentality shaping the development, then sales that were derided. The KDF side of the house has done better in the last few years so I don't see a reason why bridges couldn't have a new lease on life (In terms of utility, satisfaction, and profitablity) with some reexamination.

locutusofcactus

somtaawkhar wrote: »

People only care about fleet holdings for the rewards, not the visuals of the zone. What unique ships/consoles/kit modules is this going to provide to make people interested in it?

somtaawkhar wrote: »

Even then, when it comes to player housing people generally want a system where you can customize every aspect of it. Everyone getting the same house, with the same furniture, in the same layout, doesn't make for a particularly compelling player housing situation.

These are good points.

For items, having a number of outfits purchasable (costing dil and gpl) exclusively at the Risa holding would add additional purpose. While I do think space Barbie sells better than ground, people pay 60+ mil ec for single toon lobi outfits and swimwear sells for 6-15 mil ec. If the costs aren't stupid high (looking at you TWoK 10 mil dil) some new outfits could be sold there for incentive.

It would be interesting to see data on how many fleets are only used for utility and have no cosmetic project unlocks. I don't know if the average fleet has unlocked all the cosmetic 200k dil projects but I know in the armadas I am in most of them are. The fleet projects are not customized or anything. They are all the same for all fleets so I don't think lack of customization would hold it back.

strathkin

SWTOR has an amazing Player housing option called your Jedi or Sith's Stronghold, extremely impressive in fact. You'd unlock various items Decorations (similar to what we called Trophies) yet their system allowed placement of various sized floor tiles (what they called hooks) and could change their shape & size, or ground pattern placements from small/medium/larger/very large based on basic geometric shapes. Then if you placed an item could also choose the direction (rotate 180 degrees either direction) to a Chair, desk, or anything else might face, or move it a 10-20 ft forward depending on the Size of the Hook. Some of the items were earnable from Missions, others from COIN Store, others from drops in various Queues, Events to countless others that were enable via other methods.

https://swtor-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Strongholds
╘ There were even 3-4 larger (not shown here) introduced later, and more expensive Strongholds.
╘ Guilds could also use them as an alternate to their Captital Ship.
╘ Countless videos (YouTube) show all the features for Stronghold Hooks, Decorations, etc...

So each Players Housing, and players could have 3-5 different ones too, depending on which Faction, and your Characters you could share or choose which Stronhold to visit. Your own Players Stronghold was also something most regularly visited, unlike Starship Bridges as you could run Queues, it offered almost all services like Social Zones, with Decorations and NPC's or Utilities easily movable to places you desired within your Stronghold, including a place to heal, or do several other things like visit Global Trade Network (Our Exchange), Bank, Ship Storage, and could even show Companions.
Players Housing could also be made Public, though only friends with a Bronze could visit if not public, or with a Silver key could allow to use Services within your Stronghold--get access their services just like in a Social zone.

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Still I'd be open to Risa Housing, if you could purchase a small, medium, or larger Apartment for DIL. In SWTOR they gave a base # of rooms unlocked for one price, yet then you'd have to spend more for additional rooms, stairways upstairs, or then access to Patio, Lounge, or additional Rooms--the cost was based on how many hooks and it's size.

Still I think most would be largely happy with a scaled back version of that! Simply by updating or modernizing Starship Interiors to be more customizable in the 3 (perhaps a few additional rooms) with greatly expanded Trophies, depending on which of the 3 major Factions your in. If we could also change the textures, or flooring colors, at least for Crew Deck. Aside from those suggested In this thread on reddit/twitter dev tracker thread - page 8 - at 2/5th down I spoke of the idea I had years earlier posted to the forums to further expand the Trophy Mechanic with GPL/DIL.

If only we could choose, where to beam in to by default, be it Bridge, Ready Room, Captains Quarters, or Ten Forward or perhaps customize 1-2 additional rooms with customization. Maybe visitors beam in to the Transporter Room. And if services were more readily available like Exchange, Banks, Tailor or other things along with variations for DOFF assignments maybe we'd go far more often, aside from Healing or Repairing our Ships to other Services mostly now done at ESD/Quonos/Romulan Command. Yet I honestly don't know if they'll ever do this... ...in years past they've greatly resisted the idea, even if trophies or customizations would be unlocked with GPL/DIL, aside from those given by earlier missions, or from time to time included perhaps some new ones in missions, events, or TFO drops as well as Lockbox.

As I'm a much bigger Star Trek fan than I ever was Star Wars...

rattler2

The problem with TOR's housing system is that it's pretty limited, but probably the best possible option if they did go for it because it would play into an already existing system in STO.

I've been corrupted by the freedom of FF14's housing system. lol

spiritborn

rattler2 wrote: »

The problem with TOR's housing system is that it's pretty limited, but probably the best possible option if they did go for it because it would play into an already existing system in STO.

I've been corrupted by the freedom of FF14's housing system. lol

FF14 style housing districts would probably be very expensive to make though, not mention that it might not fit in STO thematically.

strathkin

rattler2 wrote: »

The problem with TOR's housing system is that it's pretty limited, but probably the best possible option if they did go for it because it would play into an already existing system in STO.

I've been corrupted by the freedom of FF14's housing system. lol

I found it truly very amazing, given the 1,000's (7,500+) of decorations & vast placement and customization of how hooks placed be it on the floors, walls, ceiling, along with their size, shapes, or groupings in different patterns. Also they had 10 Strongholds last I played, and most players could buy up to 5, some for a single Faction while others accessible by both and some were very large. Even if you walked into the same Stronghold as another player, no one looked even remotely the same.

So if you think SWTOR is pretty limited, FF14's must be truly revolutionary. I'm just more of a Star Trek fan so always hold out hope STO enhances Starship Interiors at least a little. *sigh*

rattler2

It wouldn't. I will admit that.

That's why I said TOR's system, while nowhere near as good, is probably the best we'd get as we technically already have systems in place for that with the old trophies in ship interiors. Nodes that you can place decorations on.

The problem is that its an ancient, neglected system at this point.

lianthelia

Over a decade and they haven't even made captain's quarters moddable so I doubt they will do this, and it's basically a copy of SWTOR's player housing.

strathkin

Yes, sadly I agree with you both.

fleetcaptain5

somtaawkhar wrote: »

This just leads into the same problem fleet holdings have. Its a sink for a little bit, but then you run out of projects, and thus its no longer a sink. Especially if its account wide. Those prices aren't that hard to achieve account wide, and wouldn't be a very long term sink.

Cryptic has also previously stated its possible they wont ever do another holding again, because fleet holdings are some of the most expensive things to do outside of some story missions, and the playerbase has largely moved beyond them.
http://priorityonepodcast.com/po401/
Around 46:30

"I will put a caveat on the fact that fleet holdings are one of our most expensive in terms of dev man hours. One of the most expensive things we can do outside of potentially some of our story episodes, those can get really expensive as well. But fleet holdings touch every single discipline, and they touch every single one of those disciplines in a very significant way. And so I don't know how likely it is that we might ever do another fleet holding to be honest. We.. I think its something that's on the books, but its such an investment that I don't know if we want to invest that much. The game has changed, the playerbase has changed, and the dev team has changed. It may be a product of another time at this point. But, if we don't do another fleet holding we'll figure out another way to have fleets have something that they can invest in over time.

So with that said, I do want to point out that the colony was an experiment in doing basically a second starbase. Up until that point all of the other satellite holdings were just that. They were smaller, satellite, holdings. The dil mine, the embassy, they were like a quarter, or maybe a half of the size of what it took to invest in the starbase. The colony has done some good things for us, its taught us some lessons, I think it's even less likely that if we ever do another holding that it will ever be the size of the colony. So some of your players out there might be cheering over that statement."

This also leads into the issue of social zones. Cryptic stopped making social zones because they found that it didn't matter how much they put into them, most people would just fly right by then to go back to ESD/First city. People only care about fleet holdings for the rewards, not the visuals of the zone. What unique ships/consoles/kit modules is this going to provide to make people interested in it?

Even then, when it comes to player housing people generally want a system where you can customize every aspect of it. Everyone getting the same house, with the same furniture, in the same layout, doesn't make for a particularly compelling player housing situation.

So its a sink that doesn't last very long, for a fleet holding without the rewards of a fleet holding, for a player housing system that isn't really a PLAYER housing system.

Social zones still aren't visited mostly because most of them don't have all the services available, or because they're very inefficiently spread out, or because they cannot be reached / position cannot be maintained easily.

Or a combination of the three.

fleetcaptain5

As for the idea of personal housing and such:

I don't think this would be worth it. Sure, it could be fun to have. But I doubt many players are going to invest millions of dilithium (GPL may be another story since it's basically useless) just to have something that they can then not use when playing the game.

Although requests for these things have been made quite often, I don't think it would be attractive to that many players.

It would just be the addition of stuff so that players can have something. Something that they cannot really use and which is therefore probably not valuable enough in the end.

fleetcaptain5

Most of the times when I log on nowadays, I'm waiting for some lesser played missions to start. Or I'll do a patrol mission or work on an endeavour.

Basically, when I log on, I want to play stuff. I'm only wandering through abandoned zones and holdings when I've already been on for too long, not knowing what else to do or having grown tired of waiting for queues.

So yeah. This kind of stuff would only be interesting to me at times when I'm nearing the point of hitting that special alt, F4. I certainly wouldn't invest huge amounts of resources in it.

wraithshadow13

Personally, i think it's always been a HUUUUUUUGE mistake to not allow for custom ship interiors. THAT should be player housing. Not only that but they could even roll it into adding passive buffs to your ship. Imagine getting the ship's layout and getting to add specific rooms and such to it. Each room would have a passive benefit for having it equipped. Adding an armory could make you immune to boarding parties. Astrometric labs would grant sensor buffs or boost your weapon range. Hydroponics could do something for something, etc.

There are a LOT of great ideas for how to build up ships and considering all the wars cryptic drops us into, it would allow you to specialize your build further or make it more widely useable across all content, PLUS it would allow you a great space for just customizing your own social zone. Guilds would KILL for that kind of thing on their holdings and it would be a great use for GPL and dilithium, as they could use that for the furnishings and such.

I think ESO has a decent housing thing going on but they make the houses WAAAAY too expensive. HERE, ships are already too expensive, so it would just add more actual value to each ship if the c-store version came with the ship's layout, leaving the free ships or EC ships with the generic base layout.