Add a new bonus to proton! (WPNX)

aftulus

Since proton is considered so weak since it was made why not give it a new modifier to help bring it up to par.

I'm not sure what to call it, but what about a modifier with all other modifiers but at 1/4 of the power.

WeaponX:(WPNX) <- thought of a name. I saw CTRLX listed in the modifiers on the wiki. It's half bonus. This is quarter bonus. CTRLX does use full crit chance though.

Example:(Includes all bonuses at once.)
+0.5% crit chance (1-2%?)
+5% crit severity
+2.5% accuracy
+0.875-1% damage (not sure on the normal amounts) up to 3.5-7% if increasing damage. I'm assuming 1.75 is the current damage increase.
And/or:(in regards to damage.)
+2.5 armor pen (ignore armor rating.)
+2.5 Shield pen?

This could give it more use. This could also be added to protonic polaron and other proton procing items. the damage or other stats could be higher given how rare they are.

This would be a permanent non removable mod not listed in the re-engineering. The same thing as the 20% crit severity on anitproton.

garaffe

Are you talking about the Dyson proton weapon, or all sources of proton damage?

I agree that proton damage needs to be updated, and I can only hope that when they bring the Dyson sci destroyers up to T6, they give proton damage some sort of a lift.

I say make it have more shield pen than other energy types (double or so) or a base shield pen of 50%. I also hope to see something done with ability/console proton damage.

angrytarg

They should add generic proton weapons in the first place. It's just two weapons we have and a proc (and exotic/non-weapon damage). The proc isn't more powerful than bio-phasers, I don't know why we never got true proton weapons.

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garaffe

I agree, it would be nice to have it added as an actual energy type. I doubt this would happen though because I can already hear the excuses:
"It would be too much work/time taken from other projects"
and
"There are too many traits/abilities/consoles that would have to be modified individually"
or
"Our metrics do not show that players would be interested in this".

carlos

I wouldn't mind to see some nice new proton beams with visuals similar to dyson proton weapon!

phoenixc

At the very least they should tie proton and protonic polaron more tightly together, like having polaron tactical consoles boost the damage from the proton weapon. When the subject of proton space weapons comes up in chat or discord one of the first things people point out is that proton is flapping in the breeze unsupported by any tactical consoles like the other energies are.

mneme0

They could just change the proton to be a proc on a certain variety of polaron weapons and redo the Experimental Proton weapon altogether. Maybe something that boosts EPG somehow.

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foxrockssocks

I'm going to take the stance that proton shouldn't even be a weapon type. It makes little sense that a proton is remotely viable as a weapon.

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aftulus

Maybe if they made it so a new level of it was proton as well as an option for polaron and/or antiproton. In fact proton antiproton would be fun.

I was looking at the ba'ul ship. That might be fun.

Actually since they don't have multi choices for that set I guess proton would be the best option. Maybe if they do a t6 dyson set of ships they can release a new box of them with pure proton with a proc.

angrytarg

> @somtaawkhar said:
> Doesn't that apply to like, half the things they use as weapons in Star Trek though?

Considering that the particles ST uses for it's beam weapons, nadions, aren't real - yes, any concern about rl science is moot 😁

foxrockssocks

somtaawkhar wrote: »

foxrockssocks wrote: »

I'm going to take the stance that proton shouldn't even be a weapon type. It makes little sense that a proton is remotely viable as a weapon.

Doesn't that apply to like, half the things they use as weapons in Star Trek though?

No. Phaser, Disruptor, and Tetryon are based on fictional particles, so they get a pass. It is possible we find some new particles we never knew how to detect before, or just some new weapon technology. They represent some future advancement so that is fine in a Sci Fi setting.

Plasma is real, pretty dangerous, and imagining that in an advanced future, someone has found a way to create high cohesion plasma and use it as a weapon is plausible.

Anti-proton would be in almost the same boat as proton if matter anti-matter reactions weren't a huge part of this setting with the conceit that they always end disastrously if the M/AM reaction gets away from you, with a warp core breach or whatever. Still its hard to argue that they would be effective against a ship that can polarize its hull or generate an electro-magnetic field. Ultimately I give AP a pass too, because M/AM reactions are so core to Star Trek.

Polaron is another oddity that really doesn't make much sense as a weapon type. A polaron isn't a real particle, but it is a real concept. Its something akin to calling air blowing across the planet "wind" except sometimes its a "tornado." Polarons also don't really make sense as a particle weapon.


High energy protons are obviously very real, and we are bombarded by them constantly every day as most cosmic rays are just protons. Earth's natural magnetosphere keeps most of them at bay, as do most materials where they can grab a random electron, so how dangerous are they going to be to a ship that can generate an electro-magnetic field around itself?

There's also the issue of accelerating a proton to the speed of light to operate as a beam versus other bona fide energy beams, but it is in the same boat as AP and plasma here. You may as well just call it a mass driver at that point, in which case protons are a pretty sad ammo for a mass driver.

As a ground weapon I'd say they are actually okay, because it isn't healthy to be hit by ionized particles, they tend to cause havoc with the cells they bump into, even though it would probably be a relatively slow death.

In general we already understand protons pretty well, and what they can do which is why they don't make sense as weapons and fictional nadions do. Neutrons would be a far better weapon choice than a proton.

aftulus

Is it possible for the impossible particles to be ones only made in a temporary state or condition. Given how much power the ships potentially possess maybe they can be treated as states that only exist under high energy or other conditions. Or ones that take a very large amount to produce. Are there other hypothetical ways to use them given their potential resources?

What about proton antiproton with a chance for explosions between the two. It could be a general proc. If you fire proton or anti proton the target it marked. It can stack so high and each stack raises the odds of the other causing a proton/antiproton reaction.

Then any of the weapons producing that effect can start a chain reaction via starting it's own condition. Maybe it goes up to 100 with 1% chance each. But it has some decay per mark. 60 seconds per mark decay per each weapon type. It could even take the borg route and make each hit count and not each cycle. Probably not needed. Each explosion wipes out all marks?

Math:

60/5x8=96 marks solo at max from weapons fire.

So:

Every cycle from each proton/antiproton weapon and each hit from proton/antiproton skills/effects adds either a proton radiation or antiproton radiation marker. These markers can build up to 100 marks each adding 1% chance each mark to the other weapons type to cause a proton/antiproton reaction resulting in an explosion with _X Damage and X radius. This works with all sources from all players, npcs, etc. Each explosion wipes out all proton and antiproton radiation marks.

The size of the explosion could be the result of the number of both stacks plus related to the damage of the source of the explosion resulting in variable damage outputs and sizes. So, 200 stacks with the biggest attack or other factors could make the biggest explosion.

This could make those proton consoles very useful. One of them pulses 20 hits in 10 seconds. There is also the proton ability that hits targets while weapons skills are active every .5 seconds. That would apply a lot of marks. A proton antiproton build could utilize this very nicely. And it wouldn't need a lot of either. You could focus mainly on one with a small amount of the other damage type as trigger if desired. One for marking the target and one for triggering explosions. Although a lot of variations could be made.

This could also result in maps with radiation that builds on ship for unique play. Possibly PVP maps also. Especially if the entire map was filled with one or the other radiation type. Or If radiation bubbles were good for something like stealth or something else.

There could also be consoles to slow down or increase the chance of explosions temporarily for either larger or more rapid fire explosions. Then different build could be based on either. Reduction or increase in mark effectiveness by 25-100% with the ability to use different consoles to change it to your desired amount. If you supressed it 100% it could go off half the time and have bigger explosions. Or go off twice as much and for more frequest attacks if you increased the effect. Normally this would result in damage still based on the number of marks total.

The other potential is if this increases the explosion and you go back and forth. You could temporarily suppress with an ability. Then increase it after the marks are layed to also increase the damage output. Maybe it works a little like threat does with a toggle and supporting abilities. This could be based on the logic of a field of x size around you or the target causing the effect. Or single target versions. It could be a bit like temporal in that regard. But more complicated. A lot of variation could be made with various skills/abilities.

That would mean that antiproton would be still based on higher hits while proton would add secondary attacks. Could be a fun combo.

And of course to be lazy:

Antiproton proton weapons.

Antiproton with a chance at proton explosions or proton with the extra +20% crit severity.

These could come with a chance of actually blowing up in the users face as well similarly.

They come in one or two flavors:

Proton/Antiproton weapons.

One:
_X Antiproton Damage
+20% critical damage
50% chance to apply _X Proton Damage
2.5% chance to cause proton/antiproton explosion to the user.

Two:
_X Proton Damage
+20% critical damage
33%? chance to apply _X Antiproton Damage
2.5% chance to cause proton/antiproton explosion to the user.

The proton and anti proton could be supported by all appropriate existing damage increases resulting in a variation of sizes. I think proton would have smaller faster individual hits while antiproton would have larger slower bonuses.

If different people have differnt chance to explode. then player could fight each other to prematurely detonate or slow down explosion as a competition like cloak vs detect. It could let a player get out of the way by slowing it down to move or heal and prepare for the damage(or to bypass protection to make it explode after. Or it could blow it up early to lower the damage or explosion size if from a nearby source. There is a lot of potential versatility.

Plus this can be applied to all existing proton and antiproton weapons. And allow some intereting team/anti team work. One player could be proton one antiproton making for some interesting combo builds.

And to make it more interesting. The 2.5% chance for those weapons to hurt the user could also be amplified by the marks on his own ship. So, he has to balance exploding his own marks fast enough, or tank enough to take it regardless. This would give a reason to go back and forth between chances to explode besides making your enemy blow up. And explosions could either hit everyone in proximity. Or be team based. Proximity to all is more realistic. Then you can run a team with high res or try to trigger smaller self explosions to lower damage or miss them completely.