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colonelmarik
Member Posts: 2,200 Arc User
So, there have been other threads about this, but the last time I tried to talk about it, it was an old thread that got locked (I necroed the thread because it's an old issue that's STILL an issue...). Then we have tonight.
SO, I went into the Herald Sphere TFO (which is a royal pain in the rear mission, btw...). I immediately knew the mission was going to be a waste of time, because only ONE ship (aside from my Bird of Prey) was recognizable as something from Star Trek... and that was the Enterprise J. In other words, they were ALL these ridiculous, OP, magic effect spewing ships that obliterate everything in the blink of an eye.
And BLINK I did. Between the constant lightning zapping around everywhere, and the giant blue orbs, the giant red orbs, the giant columns of fire, and then the nonstop giant white flashing of Iconian ships exploding... I thought I might have a seizure. I couldn't see a damn thing. Even with my effects turned down to MINIMUM, it made no difference. Thank GOD I'm not epileptic.
With weapon effects constantly disappearing (half the time, I can't tell if I'm shooting, or being shot at, or tractored, or what have you... and that's when I CAN see...), can't we get these nonstop giant effects to stop rendering instead? Even better, let's get RID of some of that. I've seen LOTS of Star Trek, I've never seen any battles on screen that looked ANYTHING like what we get here.
Anyway... it's a problem. Something needs to be done about it.
SO, I went into the Herald Sphere TFO (which is a royal pain in the rear mission, btw...). I immediately knew the mission was going to be a waste of time, because only ONE ship (aside from my Bird of Prey) was recognizable as something from Star Trek... and that was the Enterprise J. In other words, they were ALL these ridiculous, OP, magic effect spewing ships that obliterate everything in the blink of an eye.
And BLINK I did. Between the constant lightning zapping around everywhere, and the giant blue orbs, the giant red orbs, the giant columns of fire, and then the nonstop giant white flashing of Iconian ships exploding... I thought I might have a seizure. I couldn't see a damn thing. Even with my effects turned down to MINIMUM, it made no difference. Thank GOD I'm not epileptic.
With weapon effects constantly disappearing (half the time, I can't tell if I'm shooting, or being shot at, or tractored, or what have you... and that's when I CAN see...), can't we get these nonstop giant effects to stop rendering instead? Even better, let's get RID of some of that. I've seen LOTS of Star Trek, I've never seen any battles on screen that looked ANYTHING like what we get here.
Anyway... it's a problem. Something needs to be done about it.
Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!
This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Every thread he makes is either complaining about DPS or about on screen effects. This time he just rolled them up into one big ball of blah blah blah blah.
Broken record.
Doesn't help Herald ships are pretty big so any visual effects applied to them will be monstrous.
In that blinding mess, there are Iconian probes with viral matrix.
What I do is bring some sort of AoE attack (gravity well, beam fire at will, cannon scatter volley, torpedo spread, etc.) to take them out without having to find them in that blinding mess. I also minimize screen brightness, and/or make use of 'gammy' app to reduce the strobe effects some.
(and also playing less STO, which is lately more like dance dance elachi revolution in a disco online).
yeah "huge ship explodes" flash is few frames as most you barely see it if you don't go out of your way to look for it or several huge ships die at once. It's not based on race but the size of the ship larger Voth ship have it was well.
That said the Beacon has something like full second's worth of white screen. Now it sort of works in DSC where you're just passively watching (and it doesn't blank out the full screen just the windows), though even there you wonder why Starfleet doesn't have anti-glare screen for windows. However in STO it means as long as the glow from the Beacon is up it's pretty much impossible to do anything meaningful in-game.
So, basically you just want to:
a) get rid of people that knows how to play well because they are "ridiculous, OP, magic effect spewing";
b) get rid of abilities for which people might have spent lots of money (dilithium, Zen or Energy Credits) because there isn't anything in Star Trek that even remotely resemble what we see happening in game.
These are my answers:
a) yes, I said "people", because even the best ship in the game is worthless if you don't know how to equip it and use it properly so, if you wanna make a complaint, at least be precise about it and more importantly, direct. As @coldnapalm said: there are many, me included, that agree with you about how the screen clutter is way too much, but digging at people that spent the time to learn how to fly properly and the money to optimize their builds is not the right way to do it;
b) this game has never been and will never be canon, so they can do whatever they want with effects, abilities and ships - as long as CBS the Scapegoat doesn't come barging in about somethiing, of course - and once again digging at people for using certain abilities is not gonna help you in any way.
You're right, it's a problem. This is not the way to go about to solve it.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Yeah. That is the one ability that really annoys me. I also agree, nothing comes close to having this thing being activated in a TFO.
To give a simple example: someone who is using gravity well, subspace vortex, chronometric inversion field, very cold in space and the Somerville's trait - and does this against every group of enemies because he also has tons of cooldown reducers active - will deal more DPS and cause more spam than someone who has a less optimised build and who uses just gravity well and does so far less often.
The issue is visual spam, but visual spam is probably worse when you got more high performing players on your team. No, that's not their fault, but it is not wrong or unfair to point out this link.
As for the actual topic: I don't really see the point of discussing this again to be fair. We've already summarised all the arguments, all the possible solutions and all the pros and cons.
The previous thread was closed because there's a rulebook for mods to follow even when it doesn't make much sense to do so - again not their fault, but still it's fair to point out that mindlessly following (or, as Cryptic, expecting your mods to mindlessly follow) the rules isn't necessarily the logical or best thing to do.
Anyway, the thread was closed and I doubt many people have changed their mind in either direction since then. Most players consider this a problem and have done so for a while and most players will probably still consider this an issue - but it doesn't seem like much is going to change. Even though there are possible solutions - such as a slider to deactivate all visual effects for yourself - that would leave a significant part of the players better off while not negatively affecting anyone else, either it is too difficult to implement or it's not a priority apparently.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
I accept your apology and I apologize in return if I seemed aggressive or too harsh. Lately, there have been multiple threads of people just... going off on those that knows how to play well and have spent time and resources into making powerful builds while, at the same time, accusing new and casual players of just wanting to "get carried" and I am, quite frankly, fed up with all of this.
As for your last sentence, we're in agreement: there's way too much visual spam in game and it needs to be reduced.
I understand that not everyone thinks it bothersome but for many it is and as such, there should be an option to disable it and/or reduce it - just as there is one to have autofire on, one to have the camera follow the target and so on and so on.
As @fleetcaptain5#1134 said, this is a discussion that we have had many, many times before and it ultimately boils down to this: they're either incapable of making it happen OR they don't care to do so.
In my opinion, it's a combination of these two things. The only thing we can do, at this point, is to just grin and bear it... or to leave en mass/close our purses - but let's face it, this ain't gonna happen.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
To you, yes.. I am. You do nothing but complain about the way other people play the game, and it’s tiresome. You have been beating this same tired drum for years and now you’re so desperate to attack DPS oriented players that you’re even blaming us for visual spam.
You keep pushing your ridiculous agenda and I’ll keep attacking it. Don’t like it? tough.
I'd like to direct you to I think the Farn System Patrol in Delta, where a solar flare strikes every other minute and does that. WITHOUT prompting from the player. I actively avoid that system because I don't like it.
And players can choose not to use the Bacon of Kahless. We got 3 other summon items in game that are mission rewards. *shrug*
And yes... I said Bacon. ;P
There has been some talk lately about changing that I think.
But in that mission it really is part of the mission and there's a good explanation for it.
Having one patrol where the environment has some adverse effect isn't that different from, for example, the pull in fluidic space or in Gravity Kills. These are things that are integral to the mission and which are supposed to make the mission unique.
That's different from an ability used by another player that affects them in the rest of the game.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Lights and natural phenomena at least make sense. A huge B, or a greenish hue from the Miracle worker specialisation tree or a big clock-like visual effect underneath your ship to indicate a cooldown reduction, make no sense. These things aren't visible in 'reality'.
We should at least get an 'all/no visual effects visible' button - which should at least affect player-activated abilities and traits.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Good to see someone actually gets it.
He's right, we're not the one with all these consoles equipped, in fact.. I use almost nothing that has any on screen visuals for other players.
Rather people like it or not, and despite what Cryptic has actually said.. the Visual Spam is not only not being reduced, they seem to be doubling down on it. Almost everything they release these days has some flashy element to it, heck they just gave away the most 'screen vomit' ship ever this last summer with the Risian Weather Control Vessel.. that thing is all 'flash.'
A lot of players, casual and DPS oriented alike agree that the visual spam is out of control. If that's what the thread is about, then fine.. but trying to put the blame at the feet of a certain type of player is silly. Casual Players, Serious players, and Hardcore players alike seem to agree that the screen vomit is out of control, there are tons of threads on this issue and I don't think I have seen one reply yet from anyone asking for more screen vomit.
Laying this at the feet of one player type is flawed and biased logic.. nothing more.
And for the record, I also agree with Cold that the Beacon of Kahless is the worst offender. I @#$%'ing hate that stupid thing.
Fine, I didn't like the way you went about this.. but I can put it behind me. I'll try and be more tolerant in my replies to you in the future, no need to be at each others throats. There are points we are not going to agree on, but there is no reason we can't discuss it civilly. I have tried to help you in the past, but the direction of your last grouping of posts felt like an attack on a certain subset of players.. one I happen to be in. I am sure we can both do better moving forward, probably best to put it behind us.
Sometimes when a player flying a ship running just normal cannons or beams sees a gravity well, they'll take advantage of that crowd control and focus fire on enemies while they're balled up. Even a relatively unexceptional gravity well can really look and be quite powerful because of this force multiplication. Ships like the Herald NPC's provide their own light show when they blow up in addition to some of the abilities they use themselves.
Science ships really can be quite powerful when you're properly spec'd into science but just last night I saw a lot of science abilities as well as the clickie console from the Risian Weather Control Vessel used to little effect in a TFO. Those players weren't spec'd into science enough to make their abilities worthwhile. I've seen the same thing with the plasma and ion storm consoles.
Players use science ships because they work well and can be great at dealing with the large number of enemy ships found in a variety of TFO's. Their abilities can do a high amount of damage to a large enemy or large group of enemies. Even their inherent abilities like proc'ing their secondary deflector and sensor analysis are highly effective.
A good part of their damage is via a gravity well combined with a couple of specific torpedos and Mission, Temporal, Intel, Event, and lockbox (exchange) boff abilities. Anomalies and AoE's are what science ships do and there are starship traits that encourage their use. By nature anomalies are more visually rich than traditional energy weapons.
It's perfectly possible for a very canon looking science ship to be highly effective without certain clickie consoles. The consoles get used because they can be highly effective.
Personally I'd agree that there are a few clickie consoles and an event starship trait that are a bit over the top visually.
I'd encourage you to play around with science to experience it for yourself and you can do so without creating anything more than a highly focused gravity well that most ships will enter but never leave.
An effective build can be a lot of fun.