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Agony field generator - nullifying ground gameplay

Universal Kit Module - Agony field generator.

It can be placed during Ambush, it scales with all of those damage buffs and it also has a gradual resistance decrease to targets.

It can reach up to 10k per hit.

Once you get a handle of that thing, the ground combat becomes o-b-s-o-l-e-t-e.

As I'm sure at least someone else talked about this on Reddit or here, somewhere, this is a red flag towards the designers/developers.

It's simply invalidating any other ground playstyles and it's too much, even for a fully buffed, large kperf captain.

For 10m from the exchange, you can simply solo any cluster of ground enemies in the game, as along as you drag them inside your field generator.
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Comments

  • maniac20#5251 maniac20 Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    I've done that without that Module as a Sci on the ground with just cold fusion flash and exothermic induction field or as an eng with Molten Terrain or Orbital Chasing Beam (that is with the trait Orbital Devastion)
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 3,468 Arc User
    Oh the agony!
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • tmassxtmassx Member Posts: 791 Arc User
    Moreover, that visual effect is agony for my eyes.
  • alonaralonar Member Posts: 266 Arc User
    LOL, if you think that thing is bad then don't be anywhere near my engi, orbital with chase and the borg one too, with drones all over the place and a fully upgraded Leland rifle NOTHING even remotely near me lasts past 1 secondary fire of my rifle. And if all that wasn't overkill then if the mobs are humanoid then the assimilation module will steadily increase my army of death.
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    careful what you wish for Cryptics handling of balance is either overpowered or relegate said item to vendor trash.
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    alonar wrote: »
    LOL, if you think that thing is bad then don't be anywhere near my engi, orbital with chase and the borg one too, with drones all over the place and a fully upgraded Leland rifle NOTHING even remotely near me lasts past 1 secondary fire of my rifle. And if all that wasn't overkill then if the mobs are humanoid then the assimilation module will steadily increase my army of death.

    I know all of those. They can't hold a candle to that Agony field on a Tac with Ambush.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,417 Community Moderator
    So all this is because a Tac with Ambush can own the battlefield.

    Wonder how this will play into the upcoming Sompek...
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • maniac20#5251 maniac20 Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    If it is that OP then why do we rarely ever see it used which leads me to believe it is not as OP as you make it out to be especially when a number of members in one of my fleets all use the same ground sci build with a minor change here and there and we out do even that module. Hmm looking at your original post that is the catch you have to have something that can pull stuff into the area for it to be effective so that blows holes in your thing of that module being OP.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,654 Arc User
    My Thompson Submachine Gun can drop mobs in very little time with its secondary fire. Don't need any modules with my drones and sci magic.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

    xp8s7wd.jpg
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,168 Arc User
    careful what you wish for Cryptics handling of balance is either overpowered or relegate said item to vendor trash.
    Ha!
    Hahaha!
    [Looks at pile of Plasma Exploders in Bank]
    *Sobs*
  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 1,252 Arc User
    Mostly I think it's the snapshot nature of the game's buffs. The agony field is a long-duration effect that can apply its unavoidable damage to multiple targets, multiple times over that duration. Most other effects, enemies will actively avoid (see: plasma grenade, exothermic), so the fact that their damage snapshots is largely immaterial -- enemies will rarely take more than a tick before getting out of the small area. And, of course, the damage those skills deal with their ground effects is pretty minimal anyway. Agony Field Generator is the complete opposite of all that. It's strong, persistent, unavoidable, and strikes a gigantic area. Couple that with buff snapshots, and it's a recipe for balance problems.
  • maniac20#5251 maniac20 Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    Mostly I think it's the snapshot nature of the game's buffs. The agony field is a long-duration effect that can apply its unavoidable damage to multiple targets, multiple times over that duration. Most other effects, enemies will actively avoid (see: plasma grenade, exothermic), so the fact that their damage snapshots is largely immaterial -- enemies will rarely take more than a tick before getting out of the small area. And, of course, the damage those skills deal with their ground effects is pretty minimal anyway. Agony Field Generator is the complete opposite of all that. It's strong, persistent, unavoidable, and strikes a gigantic area. Couple that with buff snapshots, and it's a recipe for balance problems.

    I suggest messing with some of those again I have literally melted large groups of NPC's with either cold flash fusion and/or Exothermic on my Caitian Sci. Also to add to that I have seen NPCs dodge Agony Field Generator also so it being unavoidable is BS.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,417 Community Moderator
    To be fair, Cold Fusion Flash isn't a Hazard AoE like Endothermic/Exothermic. Its just an instant AoE cold blast. Pretty good combo'd with Endothermic IMO.

    I think what may be the case with the Agony Field is that its a MASSIVE AoE that shrinks over the duration. Also its basically a generator, so a static emplacement that, in a PvP setting, is vulnerable to Sabotage.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 1,252 Arc User
    Mostly I think it's the snapshot nature of the game's buffs. The agony field is a long-duration effect that can apply its unavoidable damage to multiple targets, multiple times over that duration. Most other effects, enemies will actively avoid (see: plasma grenade, exothermic), so the fact that their damage snapshots is largely immaterial -- enemies will rarely take more than a tick before getting out of the small area. And, of course, the damage those skills deal with their ground effects is pretty minimal anyway. Agony Field Generator is the complete opposite of all that. It's strong, persistent, unavoidable, and strikes a gigantic area. Couple that with buff snapshots, and it's a recipe for balance problems.

    I suggest messing with some of those again I have literally melted large groups of NPC's with either cold flash fusion and/or Exothermic on my Caitian Sci. Also to add to that I have seen NPCs dodge Agony Field Generator also so it being unavoidable is BS.

    It's *not* possible to dodge. You can minimize your exposure time, but you cannot avoid it entirely (save when the server's collision detection goes screwy, which happens from time to time, but that's not something anyone can control or do on demand). If you're inside the dome, you either destroy the generator before the dome shrinks onto you, or you get hit by the dome.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,821 Arc User
    Yeah it's pretty ridiculous, the reach and power of this thing.
    I've been in Sompek instances where just activating that thing would be enough to kill everything, even in relatively high rounds.


    You'd think they'd have rebalanced things by now, but it seems no one cares anymore that some of the more recent stuff is ridiculously overpowered compared to earlier gear.

    Those Pahvo crystals that can kill off anything that comes close, the one ability that allows players to drain an enemy's life energy (restoring their own HP while basically instantly killing any opponent) and the ability to create entire armies of drones (as if the crawling Hur'q, the holo-decoys and dinosaurs and tardigrades weren't enough) are a few other examples.

    Not to mention the almost permanent ability to hit multiple targets with electricity. Or the Ambush turrets. Ok, those need to be replaced after 15 seconds but they're capable of almost instantly killing entire groups in battlezones for example.

    Simply put, it's not just the Agony generator. Most of the more recent stuff has ridiculously low cooldowns or deals too much damage (or, worse, it has and does both). We have kit modules that basically serve as a third weapon that can almost constantly be active, turrets that only require one activation to defeat enemies all around the player and so on.



    But to be fair, I stopped caring as well. There's no point in being frustrated at something they will not change, or only change after they've milked the playerbase of their money by selling it in some OP form first, before they nerf things.
    Things either remain the same, or they're only changed in such a way that people are rightly appalled by it.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    I'm not sure that I've made the issue properly explained:

    When an aoe turret hits for 10k per hit on an unlimited number of targets, it is absolutely nothing that can top that. Absolutely nothing. As much as I agree you guys may have some vaping-nuking-devastating builds, please, take time and if you can afford (10m per piece last time I checked), please experiment this module with your tac with : Ambush, Battle Strategies, Motivation and Paradox Bomb. And tell me there is absolutely anything on this game that can beat that turret. I'm open to learn and I'm willing to check your results out. Just make sure to place the Agony Field Turret with all the buffs (including ambush) on you.

    It also has a pulse-based resistance decrease against phaser (it is phaser damage) and it simply crumbles any targets.
  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    Yeah it's pretty ridiculous, the reach and power of this thing.
    I've been in Sompek instances where just activating that thing would be enough to kill everything, even in relatively high rounds.


    You'd think they'd have rebalanced things by now, but it seems no one cares anymore that some of the more recent stuff is ridiculously overpowered compared to earlier gear.

    Those Pahvo crystals that can kill off anything that comes close, the one ability that allows players to drain an enemy's life energy (restoring their own HP while basically instantly killing any opponent) and the ability to create entire armies of drones (as if the crawling Hur'q, the holo-decoys and dinosaurs and tardigrades weren't enough) are a few other examples.

    Not to mention the almost permanent ability to hit multiple targets with electricity. Or the Ambush turrets. Ok, those need to be replaced after 15 seconds but they're capable of almost instantly killing entire groups in battlezones for example.

    Simply put, it's not just the Agony generator. Most of the more recent stuff has ridiculously low cooldowns or deals too much damage (or, worse, it has and does both). We have kit modules that basically serve as a third weapon that can almost constantly be active, turrets that only require one activation to defeat enemies all around the player and so on.



    But to be fair, I stopped caring as well. There's no point in being frustrated at something they will not change, or only change after they've milked the playerbase of their money by selling it in some OP form first, before they nerf things.
    Things either remain the same, or they're only changed in such a way that people are rightly appalled by it.

    You do make plenty of sense.

    I think the real issue here is that they're universal modules.

    Turrets are strong to compensate for the Engineer's lack of buffs.
    When you put them on the Tactical, it's simply turns into a messy jet of high digits.

    Mass aoe/dot debuffs and damage sources suit well with the Science captains, at the cost of a lower weapon damage generally.

    Kinetic explosive, weapon buffs and dynamic modules suit the Tactical at their best. Without being too much in terms of sustained damage.

    Maybe it's time to speak about it.
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,833 Arc User
    The cooldown of assimilate could be increased a tad, using it on pahvo ground and you can see that the cooldown was pretty much identical to that of the waves which made the defending bits a total joke since the waves always spawn as clusters.

    The borg beam loses a lot of mileage on console due to how badly executed the aiming system is. Aim just locks you onto anything nearby be it friend or foe and if there's nothing ahead it'll scoot off and grab a target thats on the other side of an impassable cliff who will then actually take the time to run around the map just to fight you.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,327 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    I have this Module on my Fed ENG. He is DSC-Terran themed (complete with uniforms) so I purchased all the other DSC Terran Kit Modules as well. I like the Module and it creates an effective synergy with some other AoE attacks my BOffs use. But I've not tried it in the manner which casualsto described in his original post. On a TAC char with all the addons he mentioned later, I suppose it would clear a room handily when used this way. But my Delta Recruit Andorian SciGuy is all cold based AoE attacks and he has little concerns when it comes to NPC mobs except for running out of them.
    Nope. It ain't Discovery. Ain't Picard, either. It's you.
  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    I have this Module on my Fed ENG. He is DSC-Terran themed (complete with uniforms) so I purchased all the other DSC Terran Kit Modules as well. I like the Module and it creates an effective synergy with some other AoE attacks my BOffs use. But I've not tried it in the manner which casualsto described in his original post. On a TAC char with all the addons he mentioned later, I suppose it would clear a room handily when used this way. But my Delta Recruit Andorian SciGuy is all cold based AoE attacks and he has little concerns when it comes to NPC mobs except for running out of them.

    Making it a engineering-only kit module might be the fix. It would genuinely help the engineering on the ground, without being a space weapon on the ground.
  • ancientfighterancientfighter Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    don't worry guys, another big nerf comming soon for all of you (the fews left) enjoy.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,327 Arc User
    don't worry guys, another big nerf coming soon for all of you (the few left) to enjoy
    Thank you, for stating the obvious! It is sooo very, very helpful! Where would these forums be without hawk-eyed denizens such as yourself sitting there waiting to inform the rest of us of things which are hiding in plain sight?

    The OP's concern was valid. He stated his concerns in a valid and adult manner.
    Nope. It ain't Discovery. Ain't Picard, either. It's you.
  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 795 Arc User
    Sorry mate but i m not sure what you complain about. The Vast majority can't handle that thing right to get the numbers. The sad fact is that most of my chars are OP if its the agony field generator, a bunch of science skills or Lobi Store weapons. If you use the right kit modules combined with endeavor system, skill tree and reputation its just what it is.

    As i said you have to nerf half the game to make it interesting for some but you would utterly destroy those casual vast majority players cause they are barely hanging in there as it is. What we need is a higher or 2 higher queues to play randoms on in order to make up for that gear without random John Doe being able to sign up for that queue with his white mk ii gear. But that is not going to happen and i don't think a nerf is going to happen cause they would hurt 90% + of the player base and not the guys you can make 10k hits. I make more damage on ground then some people in space and that the fact and i m sure there is far better players out there then me.

    So instead of I need a nerf for stuff which has no more difficulty these days how about you ask for content which actually has some sort of difficutly level so that the "veterans" can enjoy it too?
    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,586 Arc User
    The OP's concern was valid. He stated his concerns in a valid and adult manner.

    That's one way to look at it.

    Another way is that the OP just wants to remove anything he personally doesn't like.

    You can judge for yourself, but there are tons of powerful ground abilities. This device hardly 'nullifies ground gameplay.'
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,327 Arc User
    That's one way to look at it.

    Another way is that the OP just wants to remove anything he personally doesn't like.

    You can judge for yourself, but there are tons of powerful ground abilities. This device hardly 'nullifies ground gameplay.'

    And you've never done the one man campaign against something here in the forums?

    Hey, Pot? I'd like you to meet Kettle.
    Nope. It ain't Discovery. Ain't Picard, either. It's you.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,210 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    don't worry guys, another big nerf coming soon for all of you (the few left) to enjoy
    Thank you, for stating the obvious! It is sooo very, very helpful! Where would these forums be without hawk-eyed denizens such as yourself sitting there waiting to inform the rest of us of things which are hiding in plain sight?

    The OP's concern was valid. He stated his concerns in a valid and adult manner.

    Well as valid and adult as it gets considering the item in question is around for one and a half year and in such a good company.
    :D

    I both like and respect the OP. Thats why I hold back in this thread but we already concluded a hundred times that nerfs are not the answer, those items are around to bankroll the game and after the last most powul item is just right before the next most powerful item. All my starships and ground builds consist of a few dozen most powerful items. The agony field is just one of em and, after a nerf to uselessness, would just be replaced by something that would trigger the next thread where we meet and discuss this nonsens.

    The whole topic is just futile in light of the group of people who run this title. Casuals motives are just but the outcome is like asking cryptic to be allowed to spend more money for not getting anywhere in STO. I'm sick of it and would certainly not ask for it. ;)
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,586 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    That's one way to look at it.

    Another way is that the OP just wants to remove anything he personally doesn't like.

    You can judge for yourself, but there are tons of powerful ground abilities. This device hardly 'nullifies ground gameplay.'

    And you've never done the one man campaign against something here in the forums?

    Hey, Pot? I'd like you to meet Kettle.

    I have posted my opinions and will continue to do so. I don't need to rely on silly hyperbole to do it either.

    if you don't like it, you can feel free to cram it.. sideways.
    Post edited by seaofsorrows on
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
    the real question is why does the OP even care? if you think it's "cheating" in some way don't use it. if someone is using it either move to another instance or leave. I hate disco balls but I don't ask for them to be nerfed/removed. I remove MYSELF from the area.
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    We Want Vic Fontaine
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,456 Arc User
    Well, thanks to this Thread I now know what those shimmering collapsing fields of energy spawn from. I've seen them quite a lot. The Romulan Tac Character I'm currently playing has switched out three modules for the Agony, Ambush, and Paradox to test all this out. I'm going to keep it.

    That was my first Character and my Main for close to two years. Since then, I'd only played that Character sporadically. I only had Intelligence, part of Pilot, and part of Commando done. Now, I'm finishing up Strategist and have Command left to do.

    It was funny seeing a number of T5U Lockbox Ships with just Mk XII VR or Rare Reputation gear slotted. Multiple copies of the same Assimilated Module or MACO Engines were slotted on different Ships throughout my Fleet. (Back before Loadouts and Upgrades were a thing).

    Those were different days.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
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    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
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  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    The fix is not a nerf. The fix is to make that generator from an Universal to an Engineering Kit Module. No nerf, empowers one of the less played classes these days and doesn't push for the ambush bonus being recalculated or reworked.

    Its real issue is the possibility to interact with Ambush and other cat2 stacks from the Tac skills.
    So the shortest way to do right by the engineers and not break the tactical Ambush skill ... Is stated above. This comes as a suggestion and a solution to the problem being discussed here. Most people call this a cry for nerf. It is absolutely not. It's just a limitation for a certain unwanted mix of bonuses which simply turns the based feature there into a one-way thing.

    It is important to read it first, then have an opinion on it. This way we can have proper arguments on different opinions.
This discussion has been closed.