What amuses me is that punk's attitude is anti-authoritarian - but there's a right way and a wrong way to be "punk". The only fandom that approaches SW in dismissiveness of that considered "not the real thing" is punk fandom.
Honestly, the album I've listened to that rejected authority the hardest was Rush's third/fourth album (third with Neil Peart and his distinctive lyrics), 2112. Not so much the content, as the fact that it was the album the studio execs actually ordered them not to make; the studio wanted an album full of light songs with good hooks, and by preference no more than 3-4 minutes long, to maximize radio play. So, according to their memoirs, the band got together, thought about the fact that if this all fell through they all had jobs they could return to (the year before Fly By Night hit it big, Neil had made Salesman of the Year at his father's auto-parts dealership!), and decided TRIBBLE it - they were going to record the album they wanted, and if it failed, at least they'd fail on their own terms.
So instead of the light, poppy album they were told to make, they released a full-side, twenty-minute sci-fi epic about an oppressive dystopia and one man trying to resist it. And then side 2 featured songs that were still longer than the studio wanted, about things like taking a trip around the world to sample the best pot ("A Passage To Bankok") and classic TV sci-fi ("The Twilight Zone"). And, while it only really got airplay on those late-night/early-morning FM radio shows where they'd play an entire album side while the DJ hit the head and/or got high, it was their best-selling album ever (even now, over 40 years and 13 albums later, it's #2 in sales, behind Moving Pictures, having sold over three million copies).
These numbers gave Rush the power to tell the studio where to stuff it, and to record whatever the hell they felt like for the next, well, forever. A four-and-a-half-minute-long instrumental based on the radio beacon pattern for Toronto International Airport? Sure! A thirty-five minute epic, starting with the last song on one album and continuing across Side 1 of the next? Go for it! An entire album telling the tale of a young man learning the sad truth underlying his world of steampunk religion? Yeah, sounds great, whatever! Nobody but maybe their producer could tell them "no" ever again, because they could prove they knew what their audience wanted to hear. Now that's anti-authority.
I'm just hoping the lockdown is not extended after the 14th April.
I'm missing normality and being able to go out when I want and where I want, yeah I'm angry and frustrated which is understandable.
So I'm using subversion as a protest tool and way of dealing with the current crisis, it does not help when draconian measures are being used.
Look at how South Korea has contained the virus without draconian measures, they have drive through and walk through testing centres, the rest of the world would be wise to use those methods because they seem to be working in South Korea.
We can use the South Koreans as an example of how to contain the pandemic because their death count to the virus is very low (177).
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
We can use the South Koreans as an example of how to contain the pandemic because their death count to the virus is very low (177).
Saying we can copy their strategies would require we had their political, social, and medical systems before this all started, otherwise it's like trying to build a fire department while your kitchen is burning down.
We should have used the South Korean model as soon as it was detected in China but our leaders dithered and now we're in this mess.
Why is that Asian countries like Japan and South Korea are far more ahead of the curve than the west?
Post edited by theraven2378 on
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I'm just hoping the lockdown is not extended after the 14th April.
I'm missing normality and being able to go out when I want and where I want, yeah I'm angry and frustrated which is understandable.
So I'm using subversion as a protest tool and way of dealing with the current crisis, it does not help when draconian measures are being used.
Look at how South Korea has contained the virus without draconian measures, they have drive through and walk through testing centres, the rest of the world would be wise to use those methods because they seem to be working in South Korea.
We can use the South Koreans as an example of how to contain the pandemic because their death count to the virus is very low (177).
Having people quarantined is not draconian, it has been used since ancient times and is effective as long as people obey it. Also, I am not against authority, I want to respect and honor the authorities. That does not mean I always agree with them though. You scare me!
Why is that Asian countries like Japan and South Korea are far more ahead of the curve than the west?
Respect for science, less selfish populace, cultural tendencies toward obedience, a better medical system, and less-corrupt politicians. Just for a start.
I'm just hoping the lockdown is not extended after the 14th April.
I'm missing normality and being able to go out when I want and where I want, yeah I'm angry and frustrated which is understandable.
So I'm using subversion as a protest tool and way of dealing with the current crisis, it does not help when draconian measures are being used.
Look at how South Korea has contained the virus without draconian measures, they have drive through and walk through testing centres, the rest of the world would be wise to use those methods because they seem to be working in South Korea.
We can use the South Koreans as an example of how to contain the pandemic because their death count to the virus is very low (177).
Having people quarantined is not draconian, it has been used since ancient times and is effective as long as people obey it. Also, I am not against authority, I want to respect and honor the authorities. That does not mean I always agree with them though. You scare me!
I take precautions and have some common sense, 10 more days and lockdown over (hopefully)
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Why does someone who who claims to be anti authority need a 'coping mechanism'?
News flash, none of the rest of us are enjoying having our movements and lifestyle choices restricted.
Listening to music isn't anti authority either. Most of the punk music "artists" I know of are pretentious TRIBBLES who use marketing and sales techniques and the current mainstream establishment to make money. Sounds recklessly rebellious anti authority to me. Riiiiight.
My movement and public choices are restricted and reduced so: 1) I reduce the chance of spreading the disease if I have it.
2) Other people are less exposed. 3) Those who need to help the truly sick and needy aren't wasting resources on me because I lack self discipline.
These restrictions are about doing things for the good of other people. Which is a recurring theme all through Star Trek. "Needs of the many," and all that. I have been through quite a few hurricanes in my life because of where I live. This is the same thing except I have utilities and food and clean water. So we are waay ahead on the recovery thing IMV.
If I deliberately choose to ignore the needs of others during this time, I help the whole thing last longer and make the results worse in the end. I don't like the restrictions at all. They are bothersome.
I'd dislike much more knowing my actions and decisions helped contribute to the illness and death of others. I killed enough people during the 1st Gulf War. Don't need to add to that list.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
I killed enough people during the 1st Gulf War. Don't need to add to that list.
Why do people like you always talk about having killed people in a war? Why? Why are you guys doing this? Are you bragging about it? Seriously, what's your problem? We don't need to hear it.
I rarely go out anyway, the only time I do is maybe 3 evenings a week and to get supplies.
Those break the monotony, I avoid crowds since I'm not a people person but I do observe the social distancing and keep my mouth and nose covered.
I've never liked my routine being disrupted, that's the way I am.
I listen to the old school 70s and 80s punk (the new stuff is just meh)
Post edited by theraven2378 on
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I speak about this for the same reason people talk about "draconian measures" and "anti authority". Because I can. Just like you type a load of things which we don't really need to hear, either.
And if this is the only thing you took away from my post, then maybe the virus needs to win.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
The cases are dropping in the UK thankfully, we may have hit the peak and with the case numbers dropping, lockdown may be over soon (hopefully).
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
We should have used the South Korean model as soon as it was detected in China but our leaders dithered ad now we're in this mess.
Why is that Asian countries like Japan and South Korea are far more ahead of the curve than the west?
Maybe our leaders could have acted sooner if China didn't try to cover up how bad the Coronavirus actually was. It is amazing how many of these pandemics come from China going all the way back to the Black Plague.
And the WHO cover up while they were praising China.
After this, there needs to be a serious reappraisal of the west's relationship with the People's Republic of China, we cannot forgive them for this.
The doctors who went public have disappeared literally, either already dead or in a "re-education" camp.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
It is a sad day when I trust North Korea more than I trust China. If North Korea stated that they have zero infected, then I would believe them since there are very few people that want to visit North Korea under its current administration.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
So because I didn't jump on the food hoarding train when this all started I now can't find things like meat or sauce at any of my local grocery stores 😡😡😡😡 it's been several weeks now, how are they still sold out of everything??
Don't forget the Battle of the Toilet Paper, yeah things have got nuts.
I'm getting sick of seeing the same four sodding walls.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
If anyone else has been having trouble grocery shopping, try going early in the morning. As I said earlier I've been having trouble finding basic things like meat and sauce, normally I pick a few things up on my way home from work around 7PM or so but since this situation started they haven't had anything when I show up that late. Today however I went to the store at 9AM and they had everything I needed: ground beef, chicken, tomato sauce, alfredo sauce, etc. They were still out of TRIBBLE paper, but I still have enough for at least another week or two before I start getting desperate for that.
It is a sad day when I trust North Korea more than I trust China. If North Korea stated that they have zero infected, then I would believe them since there are very few people that want to visit North Korea under its current administration.
i don't believe them also because there is no way to verify what they are saying is true
The cases are dropping in the UK thankfully, we may have hit the peak and with the case numbers dropping, lockdown may be over soon (hopefully).
^ Important to remember this, considering the media seem intent on only reporting on the deaths.
It will be interesting to see if people that have recovered from the virus are now immune to it. If that is the case, then they should not be restricted like everyone else is or at least should be. Maybe give every person immune to the virus a unique card to show people that they are now immune. It would certainly open up job opportunities to them as long as they follow proper hygiene practices since even though they are immune, it doesn't mean that they can't infect someone else by touching an infected surface.
The cases are dropping in the UK thankfully, we may have hit the peak and with the case numbers dropping, lockdown may be over soon (hopefully).
^ Important to remember this, considering the media seem intent on only reporting on the deaths.
I can't understand the bog roll hoarding, it's not that type of infection.
People went nuts, hopefully sanity will be restored.
I found an interesting article on the BBC about one of the negative consequences of the lockdown, I could see this coming from a mile off. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52157620
This is bad.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
^ Important to remember this, considering the media seem intent on only reporting on the deaths.
I agree. Gotta keep an eye on that sort of thing. And may that number continue to soar as time goes on. Let's try to keep sane and safe out there people.
Ah, according to wiki, that number is now at 284k. Keep going!
Media probably focuses on the death number because it is more likely to get people to treat this seriously. If they focused on the recovery number then more people (especially young people) might be encouraged to dismiss the situation as not a big deal and ignore stay at home orders, which could increase the spread and lead to more deaths.
Media probably focuses on the death number because it is more likely to get people to treat this seriously. If they focused on the recovery number then more people (especially young people) might be encouraged to dismiss the situation as not a big deal and ignore stay at home orders, which could increase the spread and lead to more deaths.
Media is only focused on what headline generates the most clicks, more clicks usually means more ad revenue.
I want make this clear, I am not trying to foist my religious beliefs on any of you, some of you I have known for a long time and call friends, the rest I still count as friends so I have added you all to my prayer list that you get through this and that we will be able to spend more times together here.
Media probably focuses on the death number because it is more likely to get people to treat this seriously. If they focused on the recovery number then more people (especially young people) might be encouraged to dismiss the situation as not a big deal and ignore stay at home orders, which could increase the spread and lead to more deaths.
Whilst that does make some sense, offering absolutely NO glimmer of hope is not a good thing either.
I was on the phone to one of our more elderly patients, who has been calling regularly for something resembling reassurance, for about 40 minutes earlier; the entire conversation revolved around how many people are dying from the virus, and it was pretty clear that her only insight into the virus is the (TV) news. My attempts to point out that the recovery rate is actually higher than the death rate fell on deaf ears. Sadly I doubt that I acheived much beyond being someone for her to talk to - these are people far more liable to beleive what they hear on the news over advice from a Healthcare worker.
Again - whilst I am definitely NOT saying that the virus shouldn't be taken seriously (indeed some are not taking it seriously enough) I do still take issue with the fact that the media are very rarely focusing on anything other than the numbers of deaths.
Trust me - speaking from direct experience now - the impact that this, and the isolation, is having on people's mental health (something else that is receiving no real coverage) is bad - and is getting worse. The number of calls we (mental health team) are receiving from people who are struggling to/can't cope is definitely increasing and the media constantly bellowing "DOOM" is, as per the conversation I mentioned above, not helping!
I wonder if this has to do with following the standard negative coverage of the US President that most of the media has been doing since his Presidential Candidate announcement in 2015. DOOM is never good in a crisis when morale needs to be kept up and a false sense of hope is always better than hearing about only DOOM. Now DOOM Eternal is good for keeping up morale in a crisis if someone is into slaughtering thousands of demons and DOOM might be good if someone is in the mood for retro games.
Which makes me wonder if DOOM threads are banned on this forum or just Doom threads.
I lost my mom a few months ago and I've been pretty much staying to myself after her death. We were close, so I'm still working through the loss.
I'm an essential worker who works for the financial industry, but with all the stores and restaurants closing, we've been off work load wise and had to cut some hours. (better than lay-offs right?)
I have type 1 diabetes AND COPD, (I've had TWO bouts with bronchitis since this whole craziness started), Infact, I'm home with it now - I've been Isolating, bronchitis symptoms are VERY close to COVID, so I've been alone A LOT more than usual. I have no fever, some coughing and wheezing - and lost all sense of smell and taste with this latest bout. But I'm doing fine. TRYING to avoid the news right now, I live in a Boston suburb and the news can be scary when you're feeling under the weather.
I've been on social media. I have a pretty big yard and we've had some nice weather the past two days, I try to get out and enjoy some of it.
I watch a lot of you-tube, listen to a lot of podcasts and of course play STO.
It's been great playing STO and taking a break from "reality".
I've ordered a book to try and keep the mind occupied,
The Roman Army, it covers the complete history of the Roman Army from 753 BC-475 AD.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
One more number to add to the gruesome statistics. My grandfather tested positive earlier this week, and he died sometime early this morning. My stepfather (this was his dad) and my mom are both sick. My brother and I are not, but we are still moving with the utmost caution.
I've said a number of times today, as it fell on me to make the announcement (my family either too ill, too grief-stricken, or too busy preparing for what comes next), that he made the mistake of trying to trivialize it. Even as late as yesterday. "Just a slight cough", he'd say. "I'm over the worst of it".
If you care at all for yourself or your families, DO NOT DOWNPLAY IT, and do not let them do it either. I get that you can't slap the TRIBBLE out of them if they start talking stupid - social distancing and what not - but be smart about it. Accept that it's real, accept that you CAN get it if you haven't already, and ACT ACCORDINGLY. Facemasks and hand sanitizer is our "new normal" now. Ignore it at your own risk.
Comments
Honestly, the album I've listened to that rejected authority the hardest was Rush's third/fourth album (third with Neil Peart and his distinctive lyrics), 2112. Not so much the content, as the fact that it was the album the studio execs actually ordered them not to make; the studio wanted an album full of light songs with good hooks, and by preference no more than 3-4 minutes long, to maximize radio play. So, according to their memoirs, the band got together, thought about the fact that if this all fell through they all had jobs they could return to (the year before Fly By Night hit it big, Neil had made Salesman of the Year at his father's auto-parts dealership!), and decided TRIBBLE it - they were going to record the album they wanted, and if it failed, at least they'd fail on their own terms.
So instead of the light, poppy album they were told to make, they released a full-side, twenty-minute sci-fi epic about an oppressive dystopia and one man trying to resist it. And then side 2 featured songs that were still longer than the studio wanted, about things like taking a trip around the world to sample the best pot ("A Passage To Bankok") and classic TV sci-fi ("The Twilight Zone"). And, while it only really got airplay on those late-night/early-morning FM radio shows where they'd play an entire album side while the DJ hit the head and/or got high, it was their best-selling album ever (even now, over 40 years and 13 albums later, it's #2 in sales, behind Moving Pictures, having sold over three million copies).
These numbers gave Rush the power to tell the studio where to stuff it, and to record whatever the hell they felt like for the next, well, forever. A four-and-a-half-minute-long instrumental based on the radio beacon pattern for Toronto International Airport? Sure! A thirty-five minute epic, starting with the last song on one album and continuing across Side 1 of the next? Go for it! An entire album telling the tale of a young man learning the sad truth underlying his world of steampunk religion? Yeah, sounds great, whatever! Nobody but maybe their producer could tell them "no" ever again, because they could prove they knew what their audience wanted to hear. Now that's anti-authority.
I'm missing normality and being able to go out when I want and where I want, yeah I'm angry and frustrated which is understandable.
So I'm using subversion as a protest tool and way of dealing with the current crisis, it does not help when draconian measures are being used.
Look at how South Korea has contained the virus without draconian measures, they have drive through and walk through testing centres, the rest of the world would be wise to use those methods because they seem to be working in South Korea.
We can use the South Koreans as an example of how to contain the pandemic because their death count to the virus is very low (177).
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Saying we can copy their strategies would require we had their political, social, and medical systems before this all started, otherwise it's like trying to build a fire department while your kitchen is burning down.
Why is that Asian countries like Japan and South Korea are far more ahead of the curve than the west?
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Having people quarantined is not draconian, it has been used since ancient times and is effective as long as people obey it. Also, I am not against authority, I want to respect and honor the authorities. That does not mean I always agree with them though. You scare me!
Respect for science, less selfish populace, cultural tendencies toward obedience, a better medical system, and less-corrupt politicians. Just for a start.
I take precautions and have some common sense, 10 more days and lockdown over (hopefully)
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
News flash, none of the rest of us are enjoying having our movements and lifestyle choices restricted.
Listening to music isn't anti authority either. Most of the punk music "artists" I know of are pretentious TRIBBLES who use marketing and sales techniques and the current mainstream establishment to make money. Sounds recklessly rebellious anti authority to me. Riiiiight.
My movement and public choices are restricted and reduced so: 1) I reduce the chance of spreading the disease if I have it.
2) Other people are less exposed. 3) Those who need to help the truly sick and needy aren't wasting resources on me because I lack self discipline.
These restrictions are about doing things for the good of other people. Which is a recurring theme all through Star Trek. "Needs of the many," and all that. I have been through quite a few hurricanes in my life because of where I live. This is the same thing except I have utilities and food and clean water. So we are waay ahead on the recovery thing IMV.
If I deliberately choose to ignore the needs of others during this time, I help the whole thing last longer and make the results worse in the end. I don't like the restrictions at all. They are bothersome.
I'd dislike much more knowing my actions and decisions helped contribute to the illness and death of others. I killed enough people during the 1st Gulf War. Don't need to add to that list.
Why do people like you always talk about having killed people in a war? Why? Why are you guys doing this? Are you bragging about it? Seriously, what's your problem? We don't need to hear it.
Those break the monotony, I avoid crowds since I'm not a people person but I do observe the social distancing and keep my mouth and nose covered.
I've never liked my routine being disrupted, that's the way I am.
I listen to the old school 70s and 80s punk (the new stuff is just meh)
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
And if this is the only thing you took away from my post, then maybe the virus needs to win.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Maybe our leaders could have acted sooner if China didn't try to cover up how bad the Coronavirus actually was. It is amazing how many of these pandemics come from China going all the way back to the Black Plague.
After this, there needs to be a serious reappraisal of the west's relationship with the People's Republic of China, we cannot forgive them for this.
The doctors who went public have disappeared literally, either already dead or in a "re-education" camp.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I'm getting sick of seeing the same four sodding walls.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
i don't believe them also because there is no way to verify what they are saying is true
It will be interesting to see if people that have recovered from the virus are now immune to it. If that is the case, then they should not be restricted like everyone else is or at least should be. Maybe give every person immune to the virus a unique card to show people that they are now immune. It would certainly open up job opportunities to them as long as they follow proper hygiene practices since even though they are immune, it doesn't mean that they can't infect someone else by touching an infected surface.
I can't understand the bog roll hoarding, it's not that type of infection.
People went nuts, hopefully sanity will be restored.
I found an interesting article on the BBC about one of the negative consequences of the lockdown, I could see this coming from a mile off.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52157620
This is bad.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I agree. Gotta keep an eye on that sort of thing. And may that number continue to soar as time goes on. Let's try to keep sane and safe out there people.
Ah, according to wiki, that number is now at 284k. Keep going!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_coronavirus_pandemic_by_country_and_territory
And knowing is half the battle!
21 'til I die!
Media is only focused on what headline generates the most clicks, more clicks usually means more ad revenue.
I wonder if this has to do with following the standard negative coverage of the US President that most of the media has been doing since his Presidential Candidate announcement in 2015. DOOM is never good in a crisis when morale needs to be kept up and a false sense of hope is always better than hearing about only DOOM. Now DOOM Eternal is good for keeping up morale in a crisis if someone is into slaughtering thousands of demons and DOOM might be good if someone is in the mood for retro games.
Which makes me wonder if DOOM threads are banned on this forum or just Doom threads.
I'm an essential worker who works for the financial industry, but with all the stores and restaurants closing, we've been off work load wise and had to cut some hours. (better than lay-offs right?)
I have type 1 diabetes AND COPD, (I've had TWO bouts with bronchitis since this whole craziness started), Infact, I'm home with it now - I've been Isolating, bronchitis symptoms are VERY close to COVID, so I've been alone A LOT more than usual. I have no fever, some coughing and wheezing - and lost all sense of smell and taste with this latest bout. But I'm doing fine. TRYING to avoid the news right now, I live in a Boston suburb and the news can be scary when you're feeling under the weather.
I've been on social media. I have a pretty big yard and we've had some nice weather the past two days, I try to get out and enjoy some of it.
I watch a lot of you-tube, listen to a lot of podcasts and of course play STO.
It's been great playing STO and taking a break from "reality".
The Roman Army, it covers the complete history of the Roman Army from 753 BC-475 AD.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I've said a number of times today, as it fell on me to make the announcement (my family either too ill, too grief-stricken, or too busy preparing for what comes next), that he made the mistake of trying to trivialize it. Even as late as yesterday. "Just a slight cough", he'd say. "I'm over the worst of it".
If you care at all for yourself or your families, DO NOT DOWNPLAY IT, and do not let them do it either. I get that you can't slap the TRIBBLE out of them if they start talking stupid - social distancing and what not - but be smart about it. Accept that it's real, accept that you CAN get it if you haven't already, and ACT ACCORDINGLY. Facemasks and hand sanitizer is our "new normal" now. Ignore it at your own risk.
"There's No Way Like Poway!"
Real Join Date: October 2010