TFO System Generated Sanction Griefing

sakicftw

I did a TFO the other night. There was a player who was doing substantial damage to the mobs and destroying everything in site before other ships had a chance to really do any damage, including myself. After about 3 minutes, the mission ended. Upon finishing the TFO, I got a messag that stated I "didn't go enough damage" and have been penalized by being marked as AFK. I did not receive any marks or rnd materials and was locked out of doing any TFO's for 30 minutes.

This is grief to the player as it is not my fault this guy was going around destroying everything in under 20 seconds. I did participate.

While I understand the need for this feature, this system generated sanction is punishing players who do not min/max for dps. This was wholly unfair to me. Perhaps there is a different way to protect against exploiting content that avoids punishing players who do no.

I included the combat so it can be shown that I, indeed, participated in the TFO.

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Cure Found
You received 8 Expertise
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You received 178 Specialization Experience
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You received 133 Specialization Experience
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Your Phaser Array gives 741 (1286) to Sphere's Shields.
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Your Beam Array deals 1202 (769) Phaser Damage to Sphere.
You received 40 Expertise
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Your Phaser Array gives 679 (1066) to Borg Bird-of-Prey's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 188 (888) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Bird-of-Prey.
Your Phaser Array gives 447 (816) to Borg Bird-of-Prey's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 144 (584) Phaser Damage to Borg Bird-of-Prey.
Your Beam Array gives 1049 (1915) to Borg Bird-of-Prey's Shields.
Your Beam Array deals 338 (1371) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Bird-of-Prey.
Your Photon Torpedo gives 306 (2585) to Borg Bird-of-Prey's Shields.
Your Photon Torpedo deals 19789 (11782) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Borg Bird-of-Prey.
You received 8 Expertise
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Captain, our enemy's facing shields are down!
You received 8 Expertise
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You received 8 Expertise
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You received 8 Expertise
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You received 178 Specialization Experience
Sir, we've engaged the enemy!
Your Phaser Array gives 656 (932) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
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Your Phaser Array deals 244 (1271) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Beam Array gives 681 (968) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Beam Array deals 171 (891) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Phaser Array gives 759 (954) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 169 (879) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Phaser Array gives 844 (1060) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 188 (977) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Phaser Array gives 955 (1200) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 213 (1106) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Beam Array gives 923 (1159) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Beam Array deals 205 (1068) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Phaser Array gives 792 (1217) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 216 (917) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Phaser Array gives 625 (961) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 170 (724) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
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Your Distributed Targeting I - Phaser deals 67 (122) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Phaser Array gives 579 (890) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 158 (670) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
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Your Distributed Targeting I - Phaser deals 62 (113) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Phaser Array gives 919 (1411) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 250 (1063) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Distributed Targeting I - Phaser gives 72 (80) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Distributed Targeting I - Phaser deals 98 (179) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Phaser Array gives 891 (1599) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 283 (1032) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Distributed Targeting I - Phaser gives 70 (78) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Distributed Targeting I - Phaser deals 95 (173) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Beam Array gives 965 (1732) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Beam Array deals 307 (1117) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Distributed Targeting I - Phaser gives 76 (84) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Distributed Targeting I - Phaser deals 103 (188) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Phaser Array gives 848 (1521) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 270 (981) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Distributed Targeting I - Phaser gives 67 (74) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Distributed Targeting I - Phaser deals 91 (165) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Phaser Array gives 668 (1199) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 212 (774) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Distributed Targeting I - Phaser gives 53 (58) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Distributed Targeting I - Phaser deals 71 (130) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Phaser Array gives 577 (1036) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 184 (668) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Distributed Targeting I - Phaser gives 45 (51) to Borg Negh'Var Warship's Shields.
Your Distributed Targeting I - Phaser deals 62 (112) Phaser Damage to Borg Negh'Var Warship.
Your Phaser Array gives 521 (855) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 151 (676) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Beam Array gives 811 (1330) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Beam Array deals 237 (1053) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array gives 528 (865) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 154 (685) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array gives 645 (852) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 152 (837) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Beam Array gives 867 (1145) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Beam Array deals 204 (1124) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array gives 587 (776) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 138 (762) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array gives 636 (840) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 149 (825) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Beam Array gives 1565 (2066) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Beam Array deals 367 (2030) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array gives 601 (794) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 141 (780) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array gives 665 (879) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 156 (863) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Beam Array gives 968 (1278) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Beam Array deals 227 (1255) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array gives 703 (928) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 165 (912) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array gives 996 (1316) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 234 (1292) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array gives 855 (1129) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 201 (1109) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array gives 1021 (1348) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 240 (1324) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Borg Raptor deals 0 Plasma Damage to you with Heavy Plasma Cannon.
Your Phaser Array gives 924 (1466) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 261 (1198) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array gives 1044 (1657) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 295 (1354) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Borg Raptor's Heavy Plasma Cannon gives 3768 (3725) to your Shields.
Borg Raptor deals 414 (6849) Plasma Damage to you with Heavy Plasma Cannon.
Your Phaser Array gives 1052 (1670) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 297 (1365) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array gives 625 (991) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 176 (810) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Beam Array gives 936 (1315) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Beam Array deals 234 (1075) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array gives 675 (948) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 169 (775) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Borg Raptor's Heavy Plasma Cannon gives 3315 (3290) to your Shields.
Borg Raptor deals 366 (6050) Plasma Damage to you with Heavy Plasma Cannon.
Your Phaser Array gives 850 (1194) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array gives 851 (1195) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 212 (976) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array deals 213 (977) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array gives 986 (1385) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 246 (1132) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Borg Raptor deals 0 Plasma Damage to you with Heavy Plasma Cannon.
Captain, our enemy's facing shields are down!
Your Phaser Array gives 634 (891) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 159 (728) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Beam Array deals 2497 (1732) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array deals 1235 (739) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array deals 1758 (1052) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array deals 1671 (1001) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array gives 850 (1385) to Borg Raptor's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 246 (976) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Beam Array deals 2104 (1094) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Beam Array deals 2728 (1419) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array deals 2396 (1246) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array deals 2429 (1263) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array deals 2426 (1262) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array deals 2563 (1281) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
Your Phaser Array deals 2779 (1509) Phaser Damage to Borg Raptor.
You received 40 Expertise
You received 133 Specialization Experience
You received 40 Expertise
You received 133 Specialization Experience
Sir, we've engaged the enemy!
Your Phaser Array gives 556 (1117) to Assimilated Carrier's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 1690 (1343) Phaser Damage to Assimilated Carrier.
Your Phaser Array gives 570 (1147) to Assimilated Carrier's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 1735 (1379) Phaser Damage to Assimilated Carrier.
Your Beam Array gives 1063 (2138) to Assimilated Carrier's Shields.
Your Beam Array deals 720 (1367) Phaser Damage to Assimilated Carrier.
Your Phaser Array gives 1087 (2186) to Assimilated Carrier's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 736 (1398) Phaser Damage to Assimilated Carrier.
Your Phaser Array gives 1030 (2072) to Assimilated Carrier's Shields.
Your Phaser Array deals 698 (1325) Phaser Damage to Assimilated Carrier.
You received 81 Expertise
You received 267 Specialization Experience
You have been assigned an AFK penalty for not participating enough in this queued event.
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eazzie

Sadly you are always going to come across players that have far superior ships / weapons etc. Are you aware that if you put them on ignore you aren't teamed up with them again in a TFO

iamynaught

eazzie wrote: »

Sadly you are always going to come across players that have far superior ships / weapons etc. Are you aware that if you put them on ignore you aren't teamed up with them again in a TFO

I'd always heard rumor about the "won't be teamed with ignored players" thing, but always thought it was just that, rumor. So is it a real thing or not? It may explain why I sometimes have difficulty getting into randoms due to how many a$$hats I've ignored over the years. Finding four other players I haven't ignored probably takes the system a while.

legendarylycan

well, looking at those names (which, by the way, you should redact, OP - the mods take a dim view of naming&shaming, even if that isn't what you're doing)...at least it wasn't me - i've been doing cure and khitomer space runs ever since the borg event started to finally polish off the accolades related to those...which i have to run on normal for cure, because advanced doesn't count, which i only found out after like...a week? and to avoid having to constantly swap back and forth between normal and advanced filtering, i just do khitomer on normal too - in a ship that is VERY much beyond what is needed to even SOLO the queue, never mind do it with other people​​

sakicftw

shadowfang240 wrote: »

well, looking at those names (which, by the way, you should redact, OP - the mods take a dim view of naming&shaming, even if that isn't what you're doing)...at least it wasn't me - i've been doing cure and khitomer space runs ever since the borg event started to finally polish off the accolades related to those...which i have to run on normal for cure, because advanced doesn't count, which i only found out after like...a week? and to avoid having to constantly swap back and forth between normal and advanced filtering, i just do khitomer on normal too - in a ship that is VERY much beyond what is needed to even SOLO the queue, never mind do it with other people​​

Noted, I didn't name an individual, but I guess even having names is an issue?

These I understand, however, it is not your or my fault some of the TFO's are painfully easy.

That is a design issue.

sakicftw

coldnapalm wrote: »

I'm sorry...but you are doing three digits of damage a hit with some of those nearing TWO. If you are not on normal, you are flat out leeching and deserve the AFK penalty. Even on normal...yeah that is approaching leeching and maybe you should work on your ship before playing with others. You need to do ~1% of the damage of the map. ALL my ships can do that on normal maps in ONE cycle. My more advanced ships can do that in advanced maps in one cycle.

I'm sorry too, but you are blaming me for the way the system is designed? This was not on normal, and I was at nearly 10,000 kilometers away as by the time I got off shots, it was over.

You don't consider different builds other than min/max dps? How about tank builds, perhaps science builds, or threat gen builds and so on. Glad you're playing the game to max out. Some are not, and that is not the players fault. My ship is fine, I don't have junk on it, and all the gear is epic.

If the devs wanted us to all play the game the same way, remove consoles from the game that don't count towards dps, make all the builds the same so they all can do the same damage, make all the ships the same so they can all perform the same.

This is a design issue, not a player issue. I can tell you, that there are players that will be turned off who like to play rp, or casually, or any other reason outside of min/maxing.

protoneous

Not being happy with getting a penalty is entirely understandable. However the contribution threshold before getting an AFK penalty is very low.

Perhaps one part of the process might be in learning to recognize when the occasional higher performing players are part of your team and knowing what steps to take to avoid getting stuck out of position. Evasive maneuvers, (crafted) deuterium surplus, (doffed) emergency power to engines all could potentially help in getting you to the bad guys on the map sooner so you can get some more shots in.

I'm not a min/maxer myself and seem to have more fun in builds that are off meta.

I also have a tradition of taking new toons into Infected Space Advanced as soon as they reach level 50 to celebrate. These toons would have a few pieces of Mk 12 gear along with account shared Mk 14 non-gilded weapons and non-upgraded space sets and consoles from missions.

As Murphy's law would have it this is usually when a couple players doing 15x my damage decide to practice what they do.

With practice you can recognize what's happening and perhaps adjust your game play accordingly with the sole purpose of getting shots in versus being stuck in Red Alert and slowly approaching things only to watch them blow up.

I can honestly say I've never gotten an AFK penalty even in the above scenario involving players doing far above average damage on a quick map with me being on a fresh toon. This is not to say it couldn't potentially happen.

Other options might include practicing some more on certain maps on normal difficulty or having a look at your build so you can achieve that 1% of the teams total damage threshold.

Sincerely hoping this will be a one time event for you.

eazzie

iamynaught wrote: »

eazzie wrote: »

Sadly you are always going to come across players that have far superior ships / weapons etc. Are you aware that if you put them on ignore you aren't teamed up with them again in a TFO

I'd always heard rumor about the "won't be teamed with ignored players" thing, but always thought it was just that, rumor. So is it a real thing or not? It may explain why I sometimes have difficulty getting into randoms due to how many a$$hats I've ignored over the years. Finding four other players I haven't ignored probably takes the system a while.

As far as I am aware, putting someone on ignore won't partner you up in a TFO

legendarylycan

that whole 'blocking a player makes them not show up in your teams' thing is 100% NOT a thing​​

sakicftw

(response to redacted post removed) - darkbladejk

sakicftw

protoneous wrote: »

Not being happy with getting a penalty is entirely understandable. However the contribution threshold before getting an AFK penalty is very low.

Perhaps one part of the process might be in learning to recognize when the occasional higher performing players are part of your team and knowing what steps to take to avoid getting stuck out of position. Evasive maneuvers, (crafted) deuterium surplus, (doffed) emergency power to engines all could potentially help in getting you to the bad guys on the map sooner so you can get some more shots in.

I'm not a min/maxer myself and seem to have more fun in builds that are off meta.

I also have a tradition of taking new toons into Infected Space Advanced as soon as they reach level 50 to celebrate. These toons would have a few pieces of Mk 12 gear along with account shared Mk 14 non-gilded weapons and non-upgraded space sets and consoles from missions.

As Murphy's law would have it this is usually when a couple players doing 15x my damage decide to practice what they do.

With practice you can recognize what's happening and perhaps adjust your game play accordingly with the sole purpose of getting shots in versus being stuck in Red Alert and slowly approaching things only to watch them blow up.

I can honestly say I've never gotten an AFK penalty even in the above scenario involving players doing far above average damage on a quick map with me being on a fresh toon. This is not to say it couldn't potentially happen.

Other options might include practicing some more on certain maps on normal difficulty or having a look at your build so you can achieve that 1% of the teams total damage threshold.

Sincerely hoping this will be a one time event for you.

First, thank you for the thoughtful advice. I am going to take note of that TFO and make sure I fly directly into battle on the left or right sections of the map to make sure I avoid being AFKed. First time it ever happened to me too, and I tend to play TFO's on the second tier all the time.

I was very surprised that someone was able to out dps people and walk through the mobs like they were made of paper to the point where the AFK penalty was applied.

That's why I was surprised with what happened, I have elite fleet/epic consoles/space sets on that ship all XV and epic. By the time I activated BOff abilities and started firing, everything was dead.

On a side note, congrats to that player for having such a tremendous dps build. It's actually quite impressive. I just feel that if a TFO is poorly designed that could allow this to happen would need to consider making changes to either the TFO or how the System Generated Sanction is applied or functions. I can't imagine I am the first person this has happened to, and it really did take me out of the fun of the game.

Thanks again for the advice.

protoneous

Best of luck out there. Some players are real quick and keeping up can be a challenge at times.

wingedhussar

All right, that's enough with the DPS shaming.

darkbladejk

A few things need to be clarified here. The way the AFK penalty works is it requires you to do 1-2% of the damage for that ENTIRE RUN. Meaning if there are 5 people in a run, then each person only needs to deal 1-2% of the total amount of damage through that entire run. To keep the number simple, lets assume you have a 5 man team that did 100,000 points of combined damage during the course of a TFO. We can also assume that the other 4 members of the team drastically outgear the 5th person and have far more experience. With that in mind, our 5th person in this hypothetical scenario would only need to do 2,000 points of damage for the entire run. That's not 2,000 points of damage per shot, but 2,000 points of damage over the course of the run as a whole. Unless there are extenuating circumstances, with a basic mk xii very rare set of gear on the ship, a cohesive setup, and proper piloting, the numbers are there on paper that one can do 20,000 DPS without much issue. Now the "on-paper" numbers don't take into account other factors such as the experience level of the pilot, potential internet issues, or other such factors. Now with that in mind, piloting, gear, and similar type things will come with time and by playing the game normally.

From some of what you've given here as information I have reason to suspect there could be a bug at play, however I need more information to verify this theory. When you get a chance, I need you to post a photo of your ship and it's equipment as it appeared when you were in the run. I also need to see a photo of your toon to confirm himself to confirm what type of captain you are, level, and species. I want to eliminate all the usual suspects before I say for certain. If it is a bug, I will fire a report up the chain. If it's a build issue, then we will help you out.

protoneous

valoreah wrote: »

I wonder if a reverse AFK penalty type thing would work? As an example, if you are consistently doing 90% or more of the DPS for an entire team in a queue, you are automatically prevented from queueing for Normal or Advanced versions?

This could potentially prevent a player from participating in the random TFO system. Granted there can be a wide variation of player abilities found in a pick up group but this is one reason the AFK threshold is set so low.

I'd be more inclined to try and help players get some good advice with respect to their build and piloting so that their experience can be a more enjoyable one and they can enjoy the satisfaction of contributing more fully to the team as well as avoiding any penalties.

As mentioned above, this comes with time and practice as well.

darkbladejk

valoreah wrote: »

I wonder if a reverse AFK penalty type thing would work? As an example, if you are consistently doing 90% or more of the DPS for an entire team in a queue, you are automatically prevented from queueing for Normal or Advanced versions?

Not a perfect idea of course, but something to think about.

All you do then is penalize players for performing well. As cold as this will sound, if I do 1m+ dps and someone gets an AFK as a result, that's not my problem. I will however help those people to improve if they legitimately want it. I would rather see people learn and improve vs punishing folks for doing too well. Sometimes even the folks who normally play on elite want to just mindlessly blast things at times.

legendarylycan

or may not have a choice, like me who is trying to finish off borg STF accolades in which progress for cure space can only be gotten in the NORMAL version, because advanced doesn't advance the counter and there is no more elite version - and even if there was, i wouldn't use that​​

protoneous

valoreah wrote: »

If you are doing 500K DPS, do you really need to be doing normal and advanced queues? Those high DPS players are however causing others to lose out by hitting them with an AFK penalty.

That 500K (or even a million) dps is done by very few on one of two parsing maps, one of which is elite, usually with a pre-made team and not in a PUG environment... and most likely represents less than 5% of all players and yes, percentages and numbers in this case are available. The afk penalty threshold in this game is very low.

So technically speaking, you are making it a problem for people who choose not to chase DPS.

Not necessarily. See my post above for advice given to the OP in this respect which didn't involve dps but rather strategy (piloting) and ways to get about a map faster.

To be more specific, they stated they had about 3 minutes to shoot at things so they probably had a reasonable amount of time to achieve 1-2% of the teams total damage on the advanced level map they were playing with improved strategy and piloting. I say this with full respect to casual or newer players who may find some maps challenging on advanced. Self improvement is not chasing dps but merely trying to improve one's game play so as to try and be able to complete more challenging tasks.

As the OP stated, they are not interested in "improving their build" to become a DPS boat.

I wonder if they would be interested in improving their game play to avoid afk penalties on some advanced level maps? Seems the advice given so far in that respect has been well received.

Terminology such as 'becoming a DPS boat' is both open to interpretation and a bit of a label . One could potentially improve their game play to the point where they don't get afk penalties simply by practice. For example, knowing which bridge officer abilities to use and when.

Just to think out loud, if you're going to be playing advanced maps, attempting to have a build and/or level of game play that works to the extent of matching the difficulty of the queue so that you can achieve greater than 1-2% of the teams total damage just seems to make sense and is also being fair to your other team mates with respect to even having a chance at completing said map when a player or players who can make up the difference aren't available.

Given the map, numbers, damage, and times posted as well as the mark of the gear used it's pretty well a given that this could potentially be either a bug or that the OP needs to make a few small changes to their game play and build regardless of who is on the team.

darkbladejk

valoreah wrote: »

darkbladejk wrote: »

All you do then is penalize players for performing well. As cold as this will sound, if I do 1m+ dps and someone gets an AFK as a result, that's not my problem. I will however help those people to improve if they legitimately want it. I would rather see people learn and improve vs punishing folks for doing too well. Sometimes even the folks who normally play on elite want to just mindlessly blast things at times.

Well no, you would not be penalizing or punishing anyone for high performance. High DPS players would still be able to play, just at a difficulty level suited to their higher performance. If you are doing 500K DPS, do you really need to be doing normal and advanced queues? Those high DPS players are however causing others to lose out by hitting them with an AFK penalty. So technically speaking, you are making it a problem for people who choose not to chase DPS. As the OP stated, they are not interested in "improving their build" to become a DPS boat. Not saying that is right or wrong on their part, just seems to me that the answer of "just improve your DPS" is not an acceptable excuse.

Again, not a perfect solution just something to consider.

I suspect I know what your answer to this will be before I ask it, but I'm going to ask anyways. Why not do the much simpler thing and lock people out of advanced and elite until they're ready for the higher difficulties? Make sure they're ready equipment wise and damage wise for their own benefit and the team's. Somehow I suspect you won't like that suggestion but instead of holding people back and punishing them for doing too well, I would rather people be made to properly learn the basics and such before they go into more difficult stuff, for their own benefit and that of the team. Team based content on advanced, and especially elite, depends on all 5 members of the team pulling their weight. If someone goes into a higher difficulty event before they're ready, it negatively impacts the whole team, and on elite runs, guarantees the mission to fail if the person hasn't done their homework. This is by design of the queues themselves and has nothing to do with any arbitrary standard myself or others are imposing.

In STO the requirement to avoid the penalty is only 1-2% of the damage for the entire run. Meaning if the combined damage of the team was 100,000 points of damage, our 5th person would only need to do 2,000 points of damage across the entirety of the 3 minute run to avoid the penalty. Compared to other games STO is one of the most forgiving out there. If the AFK penalty were not in place more folks would simply sit back and expect their teammates to do all the work. Case and point the trench run in the Breach events. If someone is going to join a queue, I don't see what's unreasonable about expecting them to put forth a minimum amount of effort to get the reward. If someone is not willing to help generate the rewards, it's unfair for them to expect to benefit from them.

In regards to the 500k DPS example you gave, very few people in this game can put out those kinds of numbers, and it's next to impossible if not outright impossible to do in a pug environment. The only times you will typically ever see that is in a pre-made run with already established strategies and so on. Very few people in this game can pull those kinds of numbers. I would say less than 10% of the people in this game have seen or ever will see 500k+. For that matter most folks will probably never see 250k+. So the odds of you encountering a person like that are extremely low.

Unless there is an extenuating circumstance, any build that is all mk xii very rare or above, in any t4 ship and above that has a basic cohesive setup, and pilot with basic knowledge of their ship can do 20k easily on paper. I can pull 20k at level 30, but I am also an experienced player and I don't expect everyone to pull the kinds of numbers I do, especially not straight out of the gate. If someone is not yet able to do that 20k DPS the paper says they should be able to pull, they will be able to do so with proper practice and time. On this point, you don't have to be a min/max DPSer trying to get every last one and zero from their ship to do good damage. I'm by no means a min/max DPSer, yet I can pull 100k as a tank. I say that not to toot my horn but to drive the point home that dealing damage is still possible without having to be a min/maxer. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive like some wish to believe. So folks can indeed improve themselves to do better without having to chase DPS. The day folks stop thinking they can improve is the day they stop improving. If folks need help doing so, myself and many others are willing to help those that legitimately want it.

There is also another factor in this. Let's say we have a player who signs up for Battle of Korfez, which is an elite only queue. idk what the actual numbers are, but let's say it takes a minimum of 50k dps from each person to get past that first wave. That means each person in that run must pull 50k DPS minimum or the run is going to fail automatically. Again that's not me imposing arbitrary standards, but the design of the queue itself. When each of those people sign up for that Korfez run, they are telling the game and the other folks in that run, that they are capable of meeting the basic requirements of the queue itself at the bare minimum. If the queue requires them to do 50k DPS, they're telling the game and people that they can do that 50k. If they can't do that 50k for some reason, then they are not yet ready for that queue and don't need to be in there yet as they're dooming that run to failure which is not fair to the other 4 people in the run. That essentially means the 5th person lied to the other 4.

Finally on this point, there only 2 ways to get an AFK penalty. The first is an extenuating circumstance beyond the control of the player such as internet dropping out, real life emergency demanding they step away from the keyboard, or something along those lines. Things like that the player cannot help, and while eating an AFK penalty through no fault of your own sucks, your real life business is more important than game business. Handle your business then come back. The second way to get an AFK penalty is if it was deserved. Either the person didn't do enough damage and wasn't ready for that queue yet, meaning they shouldn't have been in there at all. Or they were legitimately AFK. Getting an AFK penalty is a rare event. As cold as this will sound, rarer still is an undeserved AFK penalty. A very specific set of circumstances has to occur for an AFK penalty to be given out to start with.

Thankfully it's super easy to improve your ship and your game in STO vs other games out there. If folks are having issues, there are people out there willing to help them bridge that gap by teaching them so they don't have to worry about an AFK penalty in the future. In the OP's case, their AFK penalty may have been the result of a bug, which means I'm firing a bug report up the chain if that turns out to be true. If it turns out the AFK penalty was working correctly, then I will work with the OP to improve their build and gameplay to avoid an AFK penalty in the future. Even if I have to run missions with them personally to help them get the stuff they need. Instead of punishing success, lift up the rest of the players. Folks doing high damage have just as much right to be in advanced queues as everyone else. In the OP's case, if it was a bug, then it will get fixed. If it wasn't a bug, then there are folks who are willing to work with the OP to improve.

sakicftw

darkbladejk wrote: »

...From some of what you've given here as information I have reason to suspect there could be a bug at play, however I need more information to verify this theory. When you get a chance, I need you to post a photo of your ship and it's equipment as it appeared when you were in the run. I also need to see a photo of your toon to confirm himself to confirm what type of captain you are, level, and species. I want to eliminate all the usual suspects before I say for certain. If it is a bug, I will fire a report up the chain. If it's a build issue, then we will help you out.

Sorry for the late response. I didn't check the forums since the 22nd. Here are the two images you asked for:

darkbladejk

@sakicftw I looked over the photos and I have some good news and I have some bad news. Bad news is I don't believe there was a bug and I think you got hit with the perfect storm of events to trigger a legitimate AFK penalty. Meaning the penalty was unfortunately working as intended. So unfortunately based off what I'm seeing I don't believe there was a bug. Based off what I'm seeing on your ship you made some of the same mistakes I did when I was still a bit green to the game and your ship just couldn't move like it needed to.

Now the good news. Good news is that if you want to make improvements, based off what I'm seeing, you're not going to need to do very much. With some minor changes you can pick up survival making the ship more durable, and extra firepower. As just one example, you could replace left most sci console with the Temporal Disentanglement Suite from the Butterfly mission. That will give you shield capacity, extra crit change and severity based on your aux power, plus a bit of shield resistance. So 4 buffs one console. Why have only one buff when you can have 4? If you are interested in making some improvements I am willing to sit down with you and go through stuff with your ship sometime and help you out. I will also explain why I am making recommendations I am so you can understand the interactions at play and how they're benefiting you. You can also make these improvements without ever having to touch the cstore, lockboxes, or lobi. If necessary if you're on PC I will also help you blast through missions to get gear and can crack few trait boxes I have from my personal collection. If you want it I am willing to help you out and we can get your ship to be more durable and have greater knockdown power that doesn't require you to be a pure DPS machine to obtain. If you would like some assistance you are welcome to PM me.

protoneous

Hey sakicftw,

I took your ship for a test drive last night on a human male tactical toon which is similar to yours and it was very nice... a sturdy ship that can dish out damage as well as take it.

In addition to darkbladejk's suggestion one thing I noticed was that you're using the House Martok Defensive Configuration console from the mission 'Brushfire' which as a 2 piece set is usually used with disruptors, when you could run the mission 'Beyond the Nexus' again and get the reinforced armaments console which will form a often used 2 piece phaser set with the Trilithium Enhanced Omni you already have. As a single console you can leave it in for the time being.

Check out the Quantum Phase Catalysts Set from the mission 'Sunrise' as well for a set that boosts phaser damage and has has a very nice torpedo.

You could change a few small things on your ground setup as well but this not being in the academy / shipyard section will leave you with an alternative offer of posting your two photos, including a third photo of your bridge officer abilities as well as a link showing your skill tree from stoacademy's skill tree planner up in that part of the forum and you'll get a whole bunch of collaborative ideas for ways in which to set up your ship that work well.

darkbladejk

Temporal Disentanglement Suite is free survival and damage boosting. If an A2B build is being used, it's still free survival. A2B is also not required in today's game and imo more trouble than its worth, especially when we have things like photonic officer and similar that take up less of a footprint in a build without having to take up 3 doff slots. If the OP wants to use an A2B then I will help them setup an A2B. Otherwise I avoid A2B as it severely weakens any science based heals you may have and similar powers by reducing your aux power to only 5. Plus if you get hit with any kind of power drain, no matter how minor, your sci powers go offline completely, including hazard emitters. We can debate the finer points of build theory another time but yes we do need to know more.