removing all restrictions would not make this a better game.
Agreed, but it also wouldn't make it worse.
I just see it as a silly and pointless restriction, but it doesn't effect me either way. I wouldn't run an 'Omni-Boat' even if I could. If others want it though, I say let them have it.
It really won't effect the overall face of the game one way or another.
Like I said my only real reason for wanting this kind of change is so all my beams can be identical on my DBB builds, having 5-6 Disco phasers plus a random set phaser and the red KCB drives me nuts.
removing restrics on omni is insane... even if you limit them to aft only... then the meta would be 4 gamble box omnis and/or 4 crafted omnis.
Not really. Omnis are hardly meta-weps. At best they're tolerable, as aft beams, because forwardly-arced setups usually can't do both FAW and CSV. A typical 4/4 ship, IMHO, is still best off using 8 regular beams (if you're doing a beam-only boat).
The true reason Omnis are limited, I believe, is because otherwise you could collect too many concurrent set bonuses.
removing all restrictions would not make this a better game.
Agreed, but it also wouldn't make it worse.
I just see it as a silly and pointless restriction, but it doesn't effect me either way. I wouldn't run an 'Omni-Boat' even if I could. If others want it though, I say let them have it.
It really won't effect the overall face of the game one way or another.
Like I said my only real reason for wanting this kind of change is so all my beams can be identical on my DBB builds, having 5-6 Disco phasers plus a random set phaser and the red KCB drives me nuts.
I hear ya man, I'm the same way, I like to have all my beams be the same aesthetic.
Removing/relaxing the Omni Restriction would be a boon to DBB builds, especially in ships with 3 aft slots. The only DBB ship I run currently is 5/2 so I don't have an issue.. but most ships you have to run the crappy KCB or just throw a single beam back there.
removing restrics on omni is insane... even if you limit them to aft only... then the meta would be 4 gamble box omnis and/or 4 crafted omnis.
Not really. Omnis are hardly meta-weps. At best they're tolerable, as aft beams, because forwardly-arced setups usually can't do both FAW and CSV. A typical 4/4 ship, IMHO, is still best off using 8 regular beams (if you're doing a beam-only boat).
The true reason Omnis are limited, I believe, is because otherwise you could collect too many concurrent set bonuses.
Why only omnibeams then and not all the other set weapons you can combine at will? And why limit non-set omnis if it was about set bonuses?
No, it's clearly about the arcs. Notice wide arc DHCs are limited, too. Those just don't get talked about because nobody cares.
I seriously doubt they put that much thought into whether meta-players would consider [Arc] worth the mod slot it takes or still prefer regular beams/DHCs. They just didn't want to exceed the normal firing arcs that much.
I would definitely use 8 omnibeams so I could just ignore turning, and would expect many others to do the same. Because convenience is more important than DPS in this permanently Easy Mode game.
removing restrics on omni is insane... even if you limit them to aft only... then the meta would be 4 gamble box omnis and/or 4 crafted omnis.
Not really. Omnis are hardly meta-weps. At best they're tolerable, as aft beams, because forwardly-arced setups usually can't do both FAW and CSV. A typical 4/4 ship, IMHO, is still best off using 8 regular beams (if you're doing a beam-only boat).
The true reason Omnis are limited, I believe, is because otherwise you could collect too many concurrent set bonuses.
Why only omnibeams then and not all the other set weapons you can combine at will? And why limit non-set omnis if it was about set bonuses?
No, it's clearly about the arcs. Notice wide arc DHCs are limited, too. Those just don't get talked about because nobody cares.
I seriously doubt they put that much thought into whether meta-players would consider [Arc] worth the mod slot it takes or still prefer regular beams/DHCs. They just didn't want to exceed the normal firing arcs that much.
I would definitely use 8 omnibeams so I could just ignore turning, and would expect many others to do the same. Because convenience is more important than DPS in this permanently Easy Mode game.
You do realize you can fire with 8 weps right now, as we speak, right?! Serously, I made an all-turret boat once, but more for lolz than for anything else. Given a choice, I would prefer, say, 8 good Disco beams, over 8 omnis, any day.
I wouldn't mind seeing the limit get upped by 1, though, to 3 Omnis in total; but only for convenience's sake.
removing restrics on omni is insane... even if you limit them to aft only... then the meta would be 4 gamble box omnis and/or 4 crafted omnis.
Not really. Omnis are hardly meta-weps. At best they're tolerable, as aft beams, because forwardly-arced setups usually can't do both FAW and CSV. A typical 4/4 ship, IMHO, is still best off using 8 regular beams (if you're doing a beam-only boat).
The true reason Omnis are limited, I believe, is because otherwise you could collect too many concurrent set bonuses.
Why only omnibeams then and not all the other set weapons you can combine at will? And why limit non-set omnis if it was about set bonuses?
No, it's clearly about the arcs. Notice wide arc DHCs are limited, too. Those just don't get talked about because nobody cares.
I seriously doubt they put that much thought into whether meta-players would consider [Arc] worth the mod slot it takes or still prefer regular beams/DHCs. They just didn't want to exceed the normal firing arcs that much.
I would definitely use 8 omnibeams so I could just ignore turning, and would expect many others to do the same. Because convenience is more important than DPS in this permanently Easy Mode game.
You do realize you can fire with 8 weps right now, as we speak, right?! Serously, I made an all-turret boat once, but more for lolz than for anything else. Given a choice, I would prefer, say, 8 good Disco beams, over 8 omnis, any day.
Yeah, I've done turrets too. But CSV still hits a cone even with all turrets so its not truly omnidirectional.
Not really. Omnis are hardly meta-weps. At best they're tolerable, as aft beams, because forwardly-arced setups usually can't do both FAW and CSV. A typical 4/4 ship, IMHO, is still best off using 8 regular beams (if you're doing a beam-only boat).
The true reason Omnis are limited, I believe, is because otherwise you could collect too many concurrent set bonuses.
I don't buy that argument because if they wanted to limit the amount of set bonuses you could have, turrets would have similar restrictions to omni beams and they don't. You can have as many turrets as you want on the build and do just fine with all turret builds. As just one example, I can run the Morphogenic Polaron set, and full 3 piece Chronometric set on a cannons build, but I can't run 3 piece Morphogenic and 3 piece Chronometric set on a beams build without using the turret from Chronometric over the 2nd omni beam. I can still get both 3 piece bonuses, the only difference is one is a turret and one is an omni. If the goal was to keep folks from using too many set bonuses, that's a battle they've long since lost, and that would be a poor way to do it that served no purpose. Another example, with Disruptor you can have pieces of the Resonant, Martok, Nausican, and Counter Command set all on one build. So if the goal was to restrict having so many concurrent set bonuses, they lost that battle ages ago.
Why only omnibeams then and not all the other set weapons you can combine at will? And why limit non-set omnis if it was about set bonuses?
No, it's clearly about the arcs. Notice wide arc DHCs are limited, too. Those just don't get talked about because nobody cares.
I seriously doubt they put that much thought into whether meta-players would consider [Arc] worth the mod slot it takes or still prefer regular beams/DHCs. They just didn't want to exceed the normal firing arcs that much.
I would definitely use 8 omnibeams so I could just ignore turning, and would expect many others to do the same. Because convenience is more important than DPS in this permanently Easy Mode game.
If it was purely about the arcs of the weapons, turrets would be restricted as well, but they're not. Saying arcs are why omni beams are restricted is like saying the sky is blue because apples grow on trees, neither have anything to do with the other. You severely over-estimate the value of the arc mod and omni beams in general. Even on an all turret boat, you still have to focus on your positioning as piloting is a huge part of DPS and tanking. If you're out of position, your numbers are going to suffer because of it. Having all omni beams wouldn't mean you could just ignore positioning, it would simply mean you don't have to worry about whether your weapons are in the proper arcs or not. Otherwise everything else still applies. Omni beams just like turrets are meant to be firing at all times, and it's honestly a slap in the face to beams that they can't have all of their rear weapons firing at once, but a cannons build using turrets in the rear can. There would be some that would certainly try an all omni build if they did remove the restrictions, but would quickly realize it's not all that it's cracked up to be, and in fact they're actually losing out on damage.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
"As just one example, I can run the Morphogenic Polaron set, and full 3 piece Chronometric set on a cannons build, but I can't run 3 piece Morphogenic and 3 piece Chronometric set on a beams build without using the turret from Chronometric over the 2nd omni beam. I can still get both 3 piece bonuses, the only difference is one is a turret and one is an omni."
Nice pro-tip, I wasn't aware of that slight distinction benefiting cannons for those sets, I'll have to utilize that in the future, thanks.
honestly a slap in the face to beams that they can't have all of their rear weapons firing at once, but a cannons build using turrets in the rear can.
You can get all 8 beam weapons firing using beams arrays via broadsides...
beam arrays do more dmg than turrets.
if your using a 4/4 ship and you want beams... your gonna be broadsiding. escorts/raiders would be using the 2 omnis and duel beam banks. or 2 omnis and beam arrays.
expanding the omnis to 1 from each source will solve usage limit for omnis... you can do 4 dual beam banks/arrays and 4 omnis (1 from mission, 1 from rep, 1 from crafted & 1 from gamble box).
getting them to lift all restrictions on omnis is not gonna fly.
honestly a slap in the face to beams that they can't have all of their rear weapons firing at once, but a cannons build using turrets in the rear can.
You can get all 8 beam weapons firing using beams arrays via broadsides...
beam arrays do more dmg than turrets.
if your using a 4/4 ship and you want beams... your gonna be broadsiding. escorts/raiders would be using the 2 omnis and duel beam banks. or 2 omnis and beam arrays.
expanding the omnis to 1 from each source will solve usage limit for omnis... you can do 4 dual beam banks/arrays and 4 omnis (1 from mission, 1 from rep, 1 from crafted & 1 from gamble box).
getting them to lift all restrictions on omnis is not gonna fly.
I think Darkblade means that the restriction of one set omni and one non-set omni is an arbitrary restriction that is only there as a slap to the face for beam players on ships with more than 2 aft weapons that want all of their beams to hit enemies in their forward arc
I think Darkblade means that the restriction of one set omni and one non-set omni is an arbitrary restriction that is only there as a slap to the face for beam players on ships with more than 2 aft weapons that want all of their beams to hit enemies in their forward arc
that's exactly what i'm saying. It's an arbitrary restrictions that cannons/turrets don't have to obey either.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
I think Darkblade means that the restriction of one set omni and one non-set omni is an arbitrary restriction that is only there as a slap to the face for beam players on ships with more than 2 aft weapons that want all of their beams to hit enemies in their forward arc
that's exactly what i'm saying. It's an arbitrary restrictions that cannons/turrets don't have to obey either.
At this point it might just be "because that's how we've always done it" rather than something devs are consciously thinking about for game balance.
We can only hope they realize someday that this ancient rule no longer make sense.
At this point it might just be "because that's how we've always done it" rather than something devs are consciously thinking about for game balance.
I think that's exactly what it is. There is no other sensible reason.
I concur... It would be nice if they posted a design philosophy on a devblog one day and maybe correct inconsistencies in the next major x-pack update. I really only seriously play to mix and match meta builds via cons and sets - space barbie ho!
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
Why only omnibeams then and not all the other set weapons you can combine at will? And why limit non-set omnis if it was about set bonuses?
No, it's clearly about the arcs. Notice wide arc DHCs are limited, too. Those just don't get talked about because nobody cares.
I seriously doubt they put that much thought into whether meta-players would consider [Arc] worth the mod slot it takes or still prefer regular beams/DHCs. They just didn't want to exceed the normal firing arcs that much.
I would definitely use 8 omnibeams so I could just ignore turning, and would expect many others to do the same. Because convenience is more important than DPS in this permanently Easy Mode game.
If it was purely about the arcs of the weapons, turrets would be restricted as well, but they're not. Saying arcs are why omni beams are restricted is like saying the sky is blue because apples grow on trees, neither have anything to do with the other. You severely over-estimate the value of the arc mod and omni beams in general. Even on an all turret boat, you still have to focus on your positioning as piloting is a huge part of DPS and tanking. If you're out of position, your numbers are going to suffer because of it. Having all omni beams wouldn't mean you could just ignore positioning, it would simply mean you don't have to worry about whether your weapons are in the proper arcs or not. Otherwise everything else still applies. Omni beams just like turrets are meant to be firing at all times, and it's honestly a slap in the face to beams that they can't have all of their rear weapons firing at once, but a cannons build using turrets in the rear can. There would be some that would certainly try an all omni build if they did remove the restrictions, but would quickly realize it's not all that it's cracked up to be, and in fact they're actually losing out on damage.
Turrrets don't have [Arc]. They have 360 arc naturally (and a base damage to match). All weapons that do have extended arcs beyond what is normal for their type are limited while nothing else is, so it's pretty obvious the limit is because of the arc extension.
And what I said is I don't care about the effect of the [Arc] mod on DPS because the game is too easy to matter. I would totally use an all-omni build no matter what. Would use an all-turret build too, if CSV could do the 360 arc to go with them.
Turrrets don't have [Arc]. They have 360 arc naturally (and a base damage to match). All weapons that do have extended arcs beyond what is normal for their type are limited while nothing else is, so it's pretty obvious the limit is because of the arc extension.
And what I said is I don't care about the effect of the [Arc] mod on DPS because the game is too easy to matter. I would totally use an all-omni build no matter what. Would use an all-turret build too, if CSV could do the 360 arc to go with them.
which again proves my point that turrets and cannons have advantages that omni beams and beams simply do not get. for the most part I would agree if a player knows what they're doing, the [arc] mod won't make or break their build. However if the goal is pure damage, that arc mod would drastically hold the build back if present in large quantities. The point I've been making is at this point it's an arbitrary restriction that serves no purpose in today's game. If folks want to do an all omni or all turrets build I see nothing wrong with that. the trade off is they won't be doing chart topping damage, but if that's not the goal that won't matter anyways. As long as you have enough to clear stuff with your team and contribute to the run you're golden. that still doesn't change the fact cannons are afforded additional advantages that beams simply don't have.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
which again proves my point that turrets and cannons have advantages that omni beams and beams simply do not get. for the most part I would agree if a player knows what they're doing, the [arc] mod won't make or break their build. However if the goal is pure damage, that arc mod would drastically hold the build back if present in large quantities. The point I've been making is at this point it's an arbitrary restriction that serves no purpose in today's game. If folks want to do an all omni or all turrets build I see nothing wrong with that. the trade off is they won't be doing chart topping damage, but if that's not the goal that won't matter anyways. As long as you have enough to clear stuff with your team and contribute to the run you're golden. that still doesn't change the fact cannons are afforded additional advantages that beams simply don't have.
Arbitrary it may be. Just like "can equip dual cannons" or something. But if it affects players' builds then it serves a purpose as a rule. Whether it's a good purpose is a matter of opinion.
Cannons are designed for an all-forward build and beams for all-broadside build, so they are meant to have different advantages and disadvantages.And I think having them be different is good.
which again proves my point that turrets and cannons have advantages that omni beams and beams simply do not get. for the most part I would agree if a player knows what they're doing, the [arc] mod won't make or break their build. However if the goal is pure damage, that arc mod would drastically hold the build back if present in large quantities. The point I've been making is at this point it's an arbitrary restriction that serves no purpose in today's game. If folks want to do an all omni or all turrets build I see nothing wrong with that. the trade off is they won't be doing chart topping damage, but if that's not the goal that won't matter anyways. As long as you have enough to clear stuff with your team and contribute to the run you're golden. that still doesn't change the fact cannons are afforded additional advantages that beams simply don't have.
Arbitrary it may be. Just like "can equip dual cannons" or something. But if it affects players' builds then it serves a purpose as a rule. Whether it's a good purpose is a matter of opinion.
Cannons are designed for an all-forward build and beams for all-broadside build, so they are meant to have different advantages and disadvantages.And I think having them be different is good.
It served some purpose 9 years ago, but as you say it's open to debate whether that purpose still makes sense today.
Also, dual beam banks are made for nose-on attacks not broadsides.
Dual beam banks are made for nose-on attacks not broadsides.
Thanks.. I was just about to say this.
Only single beams are intended for broadside builds so Dual Beam Banks and Cannons should share similar benifits and drawbacks. As darkblade pointed out many times, they currently do not and one of the things that holds DBB builds back is the overzealous and nonsensical restriction on their aft weapons. A restriction that cannon builds do not suffer from.
i just came back to sto after 4 yrs, and back in the day i thought it confusing when they wouldn't let u put 4 quad cannons on my defiant. now i come back and they hav even more restricted sets/items. whats the point, is having quad quad cannons or 8 omni beams hurting anyone? its a ten yr old game u would think they would just let u enjoy it how u want to.
i just came back to sto after 4 yrs, and back in the day i thought it confusing when they wouldn't let u put 4 quad cannons on my defiant. now i come back and they hav even more restricted sets/items. whats the point, is having quad quad cannons or 8 omni beams hurting anyone? its a ten yr old game u would think they would just let u enjoy it how u want to.
4 quad cannons might be OP, unlike omni beams (in comparison to normal beams) I believe quads perform better than dual heavy cannons, so if you could equip 4 or 5 quad cannons then dual and dual heavy would both become useless.
i just came back to sto after 4 yrs, and back in the day i thought it confusing when they wouldn't let u put 4 quad cannons on my defiant. now i come back and they hav even more restricted sets/items. whats the point, is having quad quad cannons or 8 omni beams hurting anyone? its a ten yr old game u would think they would just let u enjoy it how u want to.
I wonder too with dead PvP and the ever present power level restriction hamfesting weapons. You want 8 DHC fine, make sure to have enough juice to fire them all at once otherwise they are ornaments.
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
I could never get behind this. It's more than generous that standard beam arrays all have 270 degree freedom of fire which is silly in itself. Even in real 3D combat, you couldn't have more than 1 omni on any given plane, without it being blocked with another hardpoint. One on the highest point of the dorsal and ventral planes is fine, but take into consideration nacelle placement, and most ships would be limited to just 1.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
I could never get behind this. It's more than generous that standard beam arrays all have 270 degree freedom of fire which is silly in itself. Even in real 3D combat, you couldn't have more than 1 omni on any given plane, without it being blocked with another hardpoint. One on the highest point of the dorsal and ventral planes is fine, but take into consideration nacelle placement, and most ships would be limited to just 1.
That all applies to turrets too. (Devs: I'm NOT arguing for a 1 turret per ship limit!)
Also, a standard response to this is that a ship has multiple emitter points for each "beam": A beam array or beam turret is the combination of 1 x (capacitor + other hardware) + N x beam projectors / lenses / space magic wands.
maybe the question could be asked directly to the devs? twitter?
I would, except then I'd have to create a twitter account. I have a fb account but I only use it to read family posts (daww, my brother's cat pics!) and intentionally post nothing of my own.
I could never get behind this. It's more than generous that standard beam arrays all have 270 degree freedom of fire which is silly in itself. Even in real 3D combat, you couldn't have more than 1 omni on any given plane, without it being blocked with another hardpoint. One on the highest point of the dorsal and ventral planes is fine, but take into consideration nacelle placement, and most ships would be limited to just 1.
Ship model is completely separate from weapon loadout/placement/firing arc in STO. Consider this, the new Warship Intrepid has 29 weapons emplacements on just the dorsal side of the saucer, yet it only has 3/3 weapons. Omnis should simply use an appropriate hardpoint for the direction they are firing in.
maybe the question could be asked directly to the devs? twitter?
I would, except then I'd have to create a twitter account. I have a fb account but I only use it to read family posts (daww, my brother's cat pics!) and intentionally post nothing of my own.
I have a twitter account, but I don't use it for games, only for serious stuff And facebook, yurk I hate it.
I could never get behind this. It's more than generous that standard beam arrays all have 270 degree freedom of fire which is silly in itself. Even in real 3D combat, you couldn't have more than 1 omni on any given plane, without it being blocked with another hardpoint. One on the highest point of the dorsal and ventral planes is fine, but take into consideration nacelle placement, and most ships would be limited to just 1.
Weapon items in STO aren't attached to any specific position on the ship, they can fire from any applicable hardpoint on the ship (the game picks one that doesn't make the beam fly through the ship...most of the time). The number of weapon items only determines how many shots can be put out at once (and they will all happily fire from the same point simultaneously if need be).
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Like I said my only real reason for wanting this kind of change is so all my beams can be identical on my DBB builds, having 5-6 Disco phasers plus a random set phaser and the red KCB drives me nuts.
Not really. Omnis are hardly meta-weps. At best they're tolerable, as aft beams, because forwardly-arced setups usually can't do both FAW and CSV. A typical 4/4 ship, IMHO, is still best off using 8 regular beams (if you're doing a beam-only boat).
The true reason Omnis are limited, I believe, is because otherwise you could collect too many concurrent set bonuses.
I hear ya man, I'm the same way, I like to have all my beams be the same aesthetic.
Removing/relaxing the Omni Restriction would be a boon to DBB builds, especially in ships with 3 aft slots. The only DBB ship I run currently is 5/2 so I don't have an issue.. but most ships you have to run the crappy KCB or just throw a single beam back there.
No, it's clearly about the arcs. Notice wide arc DHCs are limited, too. Those just don't get talked about because nobody cares.
I seriously doubt they put that much thought into whether meta-players would consider [Arc] worth the mod slot it takes or still prefer regular beams/DHCs. They just didn't want to exceed the normal firing arcs that much.
I would definitely use 8 omnibeams so I could just ignore turning, and would expect many others to do the same. Because convenience is more important than DPS in this permanently Easy Mode game.
You do realize you can fire with 8 weps right now, as we speak, right?!
I wouldn't mind seeing the limit get upped by 1, though, to 3 Omnis in total; but only for convenience's sake.
I don't buy that argument because if they wanted to limit the amount of set bonuses you could have, turrets would have similar restrictions to omni beams and they don't. You can have as many turrets as you want on the build and do just fine with all turret builds. As just one example, I can run the Morphogenic Polaron set, and full 3 piece Chronometric set on a cannons build, but I can't run 3 piece Morphogenic and 3 piece Chronometric set on a beams build without using the turret from Chronometric over the 2nd omni beam. I can still get both 3 piece bonuses, the only difference is one is a turret and one is an omni. If the goal was to keep folks from using too many set bonuses, that's a battle they've long since lost, and that would be a poor way to do it that served no purpose. Another example, with Disruptor you can have pieces of the Resonant, Martok, Nausican, and Counter Command set all on one build. So if the goal was to restrict having so many concurrent set bonuses, they lost that battle ages ago.
If it was purely about the arcs of the weapons, turrets would be restricted as well, but they're not. Saying arcs are why omni beams are restricted is like saying the sky is blue because apples grow on trees, neither have anything to do with the other. You severely over-estimate the value of the arc mod and omni beams in general. Even on an all turret boat, you still have to focus on your positioning as piloting is a huge part of DPS and tanking. If you're out of position, your numbers are going to suffer because of it. Having all omni beams wouldn't mean you could just ignore positioning, it would simply mean you don't have to worry about whether your weapons are in the proper arcs or not. Otherwise everything else still applies. Omni beams just like turrets are meant to be firing at all times, and it's honestly a slap in the face to beams that they can't have all of their rear weapons firing at once, but a cannons build using turrets in the rear can. There would be some that would certainly try an all omni build if they did remove the restrictions, but would quickly realize it's not all that it's cracked up to be, and in fact they're actually losing out on damage.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Nice pro-tip, I wasn't aware of that slight distinction benefiting cannons for those sets, I'll have to utilize that in the future, thanks.
You can get all 8 beam weapons firing using beams arrays via broadsides...
beam arrays do more dmg than turrets.
if your using a 4/4 ship and you want beams... your gonna be broadsiding. escorts/raiders would be using the 2 omnis and duel beam banks. or 2 omnis and beam arrays.
expanding the omnis to 1 from each source will solve usage limit for omnis... you can do 4 dual beam banks/arrays and 4 omnis (1 from mission, 1 from rep, 1 from crafted & 1 from gamble box).
getting them to lift all restrictions on omnis is not gonna fly.
I think Darkblade means that the restriction of one set omni and one non-set omni is an arbitrary restriction that is only there as a slap to the face for beam players on ships with more than 2 aft weapons that want all of their beams to hit enemies in their forward arc
that's exactly what i'm saying. It's an arbitrary restrictions that cannons/turrets don't have to obey either.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
At this point it might just be "because that's how we've always done it" rather than something devs are consciously thinking about for game balance.
We can only hope they realize someday that this ancient rule no longer make sense.
I think that's exactly what it is. There is no other sensible reason.
I concur... It would be nice if they posted a design philosophy on a devblog one day and maybe correct inconsistencies in the next major x-pack update. I really only seriously play to mix and match meta builds via cons and sets - space barbie ho!
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
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And what I said is I don't care about the effect of the [Arc] mod on DPS because the game is too easy to matter. I would totally use an all-omni build no matter what. Would use an all-turret build too, if CSV could do the 360 arc to go with them.
which again proves my point that turrets and cannons have advantages that omni beams and beams simply do not get. for the most part I would agree if a player knows what they're doing, the [arc] mod won't make or break their build. However if the goal is pure damage, that arc mod would drastically hold the build back if present in large quantities. The point I've been making is at this point it's an arbitrary restriction that serves no purpose in today's game. If folks want to do an all omni or all turrets build I see nothing wrong with that. the trade off is they won't be doing chart topping damage, but if that's not the goal that won't matter anyways. As long as you have enough to clear stuff with your team and contribute to the run you're golden. that still doesn't change the fact cannons are afforded additional advantages that beams simply don't have.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Cannons are designed for an all-forward build and beams for all-broadside build, so they are meant to have different advantages and disadvantages.And I think having them be different is good.
It served some purpose 9 years ago, but as you say it's open to debate whether that purpose still makes sense today.
Also, dual beam banks are made for nose-on attacks not broadsides.
Thanks.. I was just about to say this.
Only single beams are intended for broadside builds so Dual Beam Banks and Cannons should share similar benifits and drawbacks. As darkblade pointed out many times, they currently do not and one of the things that holds DBB builds back is the overzealous and nonsensical restriction on their aft weapons. A restriction that cannon builds do not suffer from.
4 quad cannons might be OP, unlike omni beams (in comparison to normal beams) I believe quads perform better than dual heavy cannons, so if you could equip 4 or 5 quad cannons then dual and dual heavy would both become useless.
I wonder too with dead PvP and the ever present power level restriction hamfesting weapons. You want 8 DHC fine, make sure to have enough juice to fire them all at once otherwise they are ornaments.
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
That all applies to turrets too. (Devs: I'm NOT arguing for a 1 turret per ship limit!)
Also, a standard response to this is that a ship has multiple emitter points for each "beam": A beam array or beam turret is the combination of 1 x (capacitor + other hardware) + N x beam projectors / lenses / space magic wands.
Beam Arrays for Broadside... but you can use dual beam banks for park & fire...
Ships with 4/3 & 5/2 sets ups... I use dual beam/omni for park & fire. I prefer that to dual heavy cannons/turrets due to firing angle being wider.
For broadsides, beam arrays and omni.
I would, except then I'd have to create a twitter account. I have a fb account but I only use it to read family posts (daww, my brother's cat pics!) and intentionally post nothing of my own.
Ship model is completely separate from weapon loadout/placement/firing arc in STO. Consider this, the new Warship Intrepid has 29 weapons emplacements on just the dorsal side of the saucer, yet it only has 3/3 weapons. Omnis should simply use an appropriate hardpoint for the direction they are firing in.
I have a twitter account, but I don't use it for games, only for serious stuff