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What do you miss from the early days of STO?

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  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Some of y'all need to make up your minds. You can miss stable servers, or you can miss Exploration Clusters, but you can't have both at the same time. Or do you truly not remember why they were removed?

    They were removed because Cryptic said new players were getting lost in them. Another BS line. How do you get lost in a square room with only one door?
    I have no further snarky comments to make, at this time...
  • jkwrangler2010jkwrangler2010 Member Posts: 209 Arc User
    Not having to spend a fortune to get top tier ship equipment.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,793 Arc User
    No, players weren't getting "lost" in them - what was getting lost was the mission. You don't remember having to beam down to a planet and defeat a given number of enemies - who spawned under the map, and thus could shoot your and your away team with impunity while you were left unable to even target them? And over time the bugginess would build, until the server would crash...

    Oh, yeah, and the Third Borg Dynasty.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 38,144 Arc User
    I miss the original STFs.

    As in the hours long, massive bundles of story that you had to battle through. They were originally pretty much raids and I always enjoyed them. When they started cutting them up and removing all the story from them I always hated that.

    I kind of miss the old Borg ability they had before adaptation was implemented. Not because it was fun, but because I found it funny to see a group of 5 borg spawn in 15 others.
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
  • w00qw00q Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    I miss since the Beta days of STO:

    1. The original Starbase 24 mission, where you had to fight in space/ground to get into Starbase 24, and get out alive!

    2. Exploration part of STO, which was taken out a few years ago.
    Actually Exploration is a big part of Star Trek!
    At the moment, Star Trek Online presents only the "war" side of the Star Trek franchise.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,366 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Some of y'all need to make up your minds. You can miss stable servers, or you can miss Exploration Clusters, but you can't have both at the same time. Or do you truly not remember why they were removed?
    They were removed because they were boring, repetitive hoop-jumping exercises that had nothing to do with exploration but the name.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 871 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Some of y'all need to make up your minds. You can miss stable servers, or you can miss Exploration Clusters, but you can't have both at the same time. Or do you truly not remember why they were removed?

    Servers are good right now? Are you serious? There is constant rubberbanding in any social map and very noticeable pauses when a database update happens, like level ups and so forth. Kobali prime is close to unplayable.

    Any problem I remember with exploration clusters was simple to fix: drop it and get a different one.
  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,183 Arc User
    I never understood why "Mine Trap" did need so many players...just one cul-de-sac with a group of five would have been fine, but the last time I played it, I was able to by rallying enough people on ESD to join and we knocked it out of the ballpark. I got the "Savior" accolade at the eleventh hour, because that was literally the day before they removed it.

    If the scheduled events came back though...like Mine Trap Monday and The Vault Wednesday, it would just a chance to play the games on the queues that you can stayed logged in and queued for all day and just never start.

    Oh and I agree about DS9...they've made it look authentic, but it's so small! The rooms for the faction leaders are barely big enough for them to stand in and everywhere is so crowded and those spiral staircases make it impossible not to have to take evasive manoeuvres.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,685 Arc User
    Not really an answer to 'what', but rather to 'who':

    Long gone fleet mates.
    Oh, people!

    In that case, I nominate BigRedJedi. Not a fleet mate, but someone that was part of the theorycrafting and collecting dev info of the community back in the days and so we had a few friendly chats and discussions.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 1,604 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Some of y'all need to make up your minds. You can miss stable servers, or you can miss Exploration Clusters, but you can't have both at the same time. Or do you truly not remember why they were removed?

    Servers are good right now? Are you serious? There is constant rubberbanding in any social map and very noticeable pauses when a database update happens, like level ups and so forth. Kobali prime is close to unplayable.

    Any problem I remember with exploration clusters was simple to fix: drop it and get a different one.

    He was not talking about servers being good now. He was talking about stable servers in the early days of STO which I agree they were more stable then and for me started to piece out in April.

    I do disagree with jonsills, you could have had both at the same time if it was possible and dev time was balanced. Though what they are doing with the patrol system is a step in the right direction. I never had any bugs with the Exploration Cluster missions that I did. Though I never had an affinity for the Exploration Clusters, I did them and then did not do them anymore.

    I miss the loading screens that were connected to the areas that you visit instead of them being random and not necessarily connected to the area you are in as they are now. I think it would be cool to keep the community screenshots and place them in the areas that would have the picture in question.

    I miss when it was easier to find the DOFF missions for mission chains, now it is like trying to find a needle in an inter-galactic haystack and trying to stop at borders to see if it will show up or not. I sort of miss Memory Alpha because of the map but not really for the crafting system. Thankfully, have no problem finding the other DOFF missions like those in the clusters.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • eltecheltech Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    I miss hanging out for hours with fleet mates, in a deep space encounter that would continuously respawn mobs. And being new enough to get excited at a blue drop...
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Challenge

    Enough said.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,723 Arc User
    trennan wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Challenge
    Enough said.
    Heh, I only hear this from people who've played so long the game bores them. It's kinda like "I wish the game was as challenging as it was when I sucked at it."
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 954 Arc User
    I miss Gozer. And fail conditions. And Borg STFs that were on Elite difficulty to get accolades and outfit unlocks. I miss the foundry.
  • jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 5,174 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    The original space and ground in one STF's (those Federation Supply Crates in Khitomer were great conversationalists).
    Vaporizing Tribbles from the Klingon side starting nebula.
    The Terok Nor mission where the gas allowed you to kill your Away Team. :D
    Dan Stahl shooting at players with his Bird of Prey on the Starfleet Academy ground map.
    Q giving out gifts in the fountains on ESD and Targ cages on Qo'noS (no grind needed).
    NO LOCK BOXES!!!
    No cap on how much stuff I could hoard in the mail system! :D (I am one of The 107)
  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,644 Arc User
    I miss the Elite Borg STFs.

    I liked when they first did the Red Alerts and they were hard enough that you may never get to see the V'Ger ship before the timer ran out.

    I may be in the minority here, but I liked Starship Specialization. You had the type, the class, a subclass, and then the specific vessel that you could spec in to.
  • captan2er0captan2er0 Member Posts: 779 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    I don't even know where to start with this. There's so much I thought was done way better then vs now. I guess let's run down a bullet point list.
    • The devs would actually interact with the player base.
    • We got actual quality content updates that weren't a rehash of the same stuff we got the last two years
    • A content update wasn't adding a new grind and one mission.
    • Pay to Win wasn't a thing
    • Grind, Grind! What is Grind? Yeah, there were some small grinds, unless you played a Klingon in the early days when they were a PvP only faction, but no where near the level of what we had now.
    • Retro Gorn
    • STFs had a story to them, were actually challenging, required team work, and coordination.
    • Talk to Federation Supply Crates
    • "DPS is King" wasn't the governing principal behind a good ground or space build.
    • No lock boxes
    • No 3-Month grind to get a decent set
    • I could actually have an underscored and capitalized forum name :P (see signature)
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  • captan2er0captan2er0 Member Posts: 779 Arc User
    Exploration clusters, Terradome, fleet actions, dev communication, and honestly most everything they removed over the years. Foundry too, but that isn't early years stuff. The ability to finish Alpha quadrant DOFF chains.

    I don't think I've ever seen another MMORPG completely axe content like STO does.

    I want to say I think Foundry was 2011-2012ish. I think I still have my emails saved somewhere when the beta for that was happening. I know it was quite some time ago.
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  • jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 5,174 Arc User
    captan2er0 wrote: »
    I don't even know where to start with this. There's so much I thought was done way better then vs now. I guess let's run down a bullet point list.
    • The devs would actually interact with the player base.
    • We got actual quality content updates that weren't a rehash of the same stuff we got the last two years
    • A content update wasn't adding a new grind and one mission.
    • Pay to Win wasn't a thing
    • Grind, Grind! What is Grind? Yeah, there were some small grinds, unless you played a Klingon in the early days when they were a PvP only faction, but no where near the level of what we had now.
    • Retro Gorn
    • STFs had a story to them, were actually challenging, required team work, and coordination.
    • Talk to Federation Supply Crates
    • "DPS is King" wasn't the governing principal behind a good ground or space build.
    • No lock boxes
    • No 3-Month grind to get a decent set
    • I could actually have an underscored and capitalized forum name :P (see signature)

    Most definitely, the return of the Retro Gorn skins and colors from years past.
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,712 Arc User
    I was in the open beta and on the last day there was a massive Borg invasion. I remember fighting waves of Borg on ESD. I wish that could happen again.
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 1,604 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    captan2er0 wrote: »
    I don't even know where to start with this. There's so much I thought was done way better then vs now. I guess let's run down a bullet point list.
    • The devs would actually interact with the player base.
    • We got actual quality content updates that weren't a rehash of the same stuff we got the last two years
    • A content update wasn't adding a new grind and one mission.
    • Pay to Win wasn't a thing
    • Grind, Grind! What is Grind? Yeah, there were some small grinds, unless you played a Klingon in the early days when they were a PvP only faction, but no where near the level of what we had now.
    • Retro Gorn
    • STFs had a story to them, were actually challenging, required team work, and coordination.
    • Talk to Federation Supply Crates
    • "DPS is King" wasn't the governing principle behind a good ground or space build.
    • No lock boxes
    • No 3-Month grind to get a decent set
    • I could actually have an underscored and capitalized forum name :P (see signature)

    1. The devs do sort of interact with the player base via the livestreams as well as on the forums, Reddit, etc. Just a different kind of interaction.
    2. I don't know if the quality content updates are a rehash of the same stuff we got the last two years. Also, just because certain stuff was not ready by launch does not mean it is a rehash.
    3. Again, it all has to do with your definition of what constitutes content and what you consider not content or lack of it. Not all of the content was ready by launch these couple of releases due to time constraints and other reasons. Remember it is a small dev team and Kael writes plays as well.
    4. Star Trek Online is not pay to win at all! You can play F2P and never spend a dime. Though when STO was first in existence you did have to subscribe to play at that point.
    5. Every game has grind.
    6. Would be nice to have the Retro Gorn available as an option in the tailor.
    7. Yep, STFs had a story to them, there were normal, advanced, and elite and I know about the teamwork, there was a chat window that popped up when you got into the queue to communicate in.
    8. I did not know about the talking to Federation Supply Crates. That sounds hilarious!
    9. Some people think DPS is king, I am not one of those people and it is not my governing principle behind my builds.
    10. I have no problems with lockboxes, if the odds were provided and do not become like what happened with Star Wars Battlefront 2 at launch, I am OK with them. Still do not understand the furor over them.
    11. When did you need to do a 3 month grind for a decent set? Also, what is decent? Is that not in the eye of the beholder? Again, every game has grind.
    12. I did not know that is a limitation under the current system. Seems odd you would not be able to do what you did previously.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Challenge

    I couldn't agree more. I remember the days where encountering Borg was a real challenge. Good old days where Borg weren't the Kazon of the Galaxy and got oneshotted like they do now days. Raids where you needed a team which actually were able to perform teamwork. But the new standard will be sit there let the time run down and get your reward. Epic MK XV gear is only so you can take a screen shot and have golden looking weapons and consoles in your ship, makes for a nicer picture.
    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,366 Arc User
    trennan wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Challenge
    Enough said.
    Heh, I only hear this from people who've played so long the game bores them. It's kinda like "I wish the game was as challenging as it was when I sucked at it."
    I "sucked" at the game for a few days, maybe a week and was actually pretty good at it already after playing it a few months. It was never THAT hard to learn. The difference of course being, that learning to be good at it actually meant something back then. There was content where learning the tactics, preparing your build and playing well was the difference between winning and losing. Content people wanted to play, with unique rewards people wanted to have.

    As opposed to modern content that wins itself and the only difference playing well (or at all) can make is a a few extra peanuts in the bag at the end.
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    No, players weren't getting "lost" in them - what was getting lost was the mission. You don't remember having to beam down to a planet and defeat a given number of enemies - who spawned under the map, and thus could shoot your and your away team with impunity while you were left unable to even target them? And over time the bugginess would build, until the server would crash...

    I remember the bugs that plagued the exploration system since day one. But I also remember the reason Cryptic offered to excuse the removal of Exploration. They flat out said that new players were getting lost in the exploration sector maps. It was an idiotic excuse then, and it remains an idiotic excuse now. Like I said, how does one get lost in what is essentially a square room with only one door? And even if they were, a simple "Return to [Federation/Klingon/Romulan] Space" button would have solved that problem.

    But they couldn't be bothered to do that, nor could they be bothered to fix the underlying issues with exploration, let alone build upon it to make it richer and deeper. So they did what was easiest for them. They removed it with the notion that Foundry would make up for it, and they made sure that the "doors" that previously connected to exploration sectors became doors that Foundry Authors could hook their missions into.

    The problem with that was that Cryptic never normalized the Foundry code pointers with the rest of the game. Every time they updated the core game in a way that altered the way things pointed to each other, it broke the Foundry. Fixing it became a time-consuming and tedious process. Eventually, they just couldn't bother doing it anymore, so the issues compounded until they did what was easiest for them. They removed the Foundry...

    All I ever see them doing is what is easiest for them. They have the Star Trek IP to build a MMORPG around. People practically throw money at just the CHANCE to get hold of the latest Fluff items. One would think that there is more than enough money to grow the team and thus, the game. But see, the money goes into PWE's coffers, and they pay Cryptic what is contractually owed. Loss of Exploration and the Foundry means nothing to them other than maybe projection number in the metrics that say the existing team can manage the rest of what the game has better. PWE does not care about STO's potential as a Star Trek experience. Its collective numbers contribute a value that ends up as a single line item in their ledger. And as long as that value remains at or above their desired threshold, they have zero motivation to do a thing.

    And there is not a thing we can do about it unless we as a collective whole stop giving them our money. But I think we all know that won't be happening. Gotta get that fluff, right?

    There's not a whole lot Cryptic can do about it either. They do not have enough people to throw at anything more than maintaining the status quo. And by their own admission, they were running out of ideas for where to take STO until Star Trek Discovery gave them a fresh infusion of official material to branch into. And the Picard series is looming on the horizon, which will no doubt grant them a reason to revise and reinvent some elements of the game.

    But where it all ultimately goes is anyone's guess. But sadly, I feel that STO's greatest days are in the past. And, at least in my opinion, its greatest days were mediocre at best. But then again, maybe I'm wrong. I really hope I am. Nothing would make me happier about STO than if it once again became something I could believe in and get behind. But as it is now, I can sum my feelings about it up in just one word:

    Meh...
    I have no further snarky comments to make, at this time...
  • captan2er0captan2er0 Member Posts: 779 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    sthe91 wrote: »
    captan2er0 wrote: »
    I don't even know where to start with this. There's so much I thought was done way better then vs now. I guess let's run down a bullet point list.
    • The devs would actually interact with the player base.
    • We got actual quality content updates that weren't a rehash of the same stuff we got the last two years
    • A content update wasn't adding a new grind and one mission.
    • Pay to Win wasn't a thing
    • Grind, Grind! What is Grind? Yeah, there were some small grinds, unless you played a Klingon in the early days when they were a PvP only faction, but no where near the level of what we had now.
    • Retro Gorn
    • STFs had a story to them, were actually challenging, required team work, and coordination.
    • Talk to Federation Supply Crates
    • "DPS is King" wasn't the governing principle behind a good ground or space build.
    • No lock boxes
    • No 3-Month grind to get a decent set
    • I could actually have an underscored and capitalized forum name :P (see signature)

    1. The devs do sort of interact with the player base via the livestreams as well as on the forums, Reddit, etc. Just a different kind of interaction.
    2. I don't know if the quality content updates are a rehash of the same stuff we got the last two years. Also, just because certain stuff was not ready by launch does not mean it is a rehash.
    3. Again, it all has to do with your definition of what constitutes content and what you consider not content or lack of it. Not all of the content was ready by launch these couple of releases due to time constraints and other reasons. Remember it is a small dev team and Kael writes plays as well.
    4. Star Trek Online is not pay to win at all! You can play F2P and never spend a dime. Though when STO was first in existence you did have to subscribe to play at that point.
    5. Every game has grind.
    6. Would be nice to have the Retro Gorn available as an option in the tailor.
    7. Yep, STFs had a story to them, there were normal, advanced, and elite and I know about the teamwork, there was a chat window that popped up when you got into the queue to communicate in.
    8. I did not know about the talking to Federation Supply Crates. That sounds hilarious!
    9. Some people think DPS is king, I am not one of those people and it is not my governing principle behind my builds.
    10. I have no problems with lockboxes, if the odds were provided and do not become like what happened with Star Wars Battlefront 2 at launch, I am OK with them. Still do not understand the furor over them.
    11. When did you need to do a 3 month grind for a decent set? Also, what is decent? Is that not in the eye of the beholder? Again, every game has grind.
    12. I did not know that is a limitation under the current system. Seems odd you would not be able to do what you did previously.

    I guess kinda going on more here:
    1.) The devs used to actually jump in game and torment/play with the players at one point. Some of my fondest memories of the game are them doing some really whimsical stuff to other players or spawning stuff that isn't normal. Yeah they're on forums and reddit, but they don't interact in game like the used to.
    2.) That's more of a stab at the endless rep system grinds we keep getting. Those and the associated TFOs are pretty much in the same vein every single time the last few years. New grind. New reskined spam fest.
    3.) I get time constraints on content, but I don't consider a new rep system content. It's just a rehash of the same stuff we've gotten over and over.
    4.) Having tried this before with Tier 5, end level stuff is to a point that you're hand is kinda forced into a pay to win scenario. Outside of Summer/Winter/Anniversary grinds, we don't get end level ships for free. The 9 console tier 5 ships you get for free don't really cut it in end game content anymore. Yeah you can hold your own, but you're kinda TRIBBLE out of luck as soon as you try to be competitive. Been there, done that. There's no denying that the best ships in the game are behind a pay wall. Free to Play is often Pay to Win.
    5.) I get that grinds are a part of modern games, but still. We have at least 12 reputation grind systems (I don't keep count anymore). Each with multi month grinds behind them to get to end level gear. For the casual or new player, that's a bit.... much.
    9.) It's hard to look past, though, without any kinda of decent DPS, the game gets a lot more annoying though. Lot of changes to AI and NPC enemies in the game have been a result of DPS power creep from stuff I've seen over the last 10 years. This was really evident when Delta Rising first launched. Using same build before and after that wasn't DPS based, I went from being able to easily being able to handle spawns in 5 minutes to then taking a half hour after that. Yeah the level cap was raised, but level for level and difficulty for difficulty, spawn HP went though the roof after DR in due part to the DPS elite league
    10.) Once upon a time, the ships and stuff people wanted were regularly put in the C-Store for everyone to enjoy account wide. Now, almost every ship that the players want is in either a lock bock or an R&D gambling pack. Having had experienced them releasing them to everyone as a pay option in the C-Store has me really biased towards that compared to lock boxes.
    11.) Speaking as a casual player, I've been the better part of 3-4+ months getting a set from one of the Reputation Systems or even working on something from crafting before. College, life work, etc kinda take a priority and draw that out way longer than it needs to be. Without the double rep XP token TRIBBLE, you're looking at a neigh on forever grind to max that out to get what you want. Fleet gear... Don't even get me started on how long that takes to get anything unlocked on those....
    12.) When the game changed hands form Atari/Cryptic to PWE, the old forums and what they allowed were rolled into Vanilla and the train wreck that was at first. Ton of people had to redo their forum names because the PWE system didn't allow for the same as what the Atari/Cryptic boards did.
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  • snowwolf#0563 snowwolf Member Posts: 814 Arc User
    The old HUD with a solid color that did not have any transparency effects that ate 30-50 FPS depending on what is going on.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,723 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    trennan wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Challenge
    Enough said.
    Heh, I only hear this from people who've played so long the game bores them. It's kinda like "I wish the game was as challenging as it was when I sucked at it."
    I "sucked" at the game for a few days, maybe a week and was actually pretty good at it already after playing it a few months. It was never THAT hard to learn. The difference of course being, that learning to be good at it actually meant something back then. There was content where learning the tactics, preparing your build and playing well was the difference between winning and losing. Content people wanted to play, with unique rewards people wanted to have.

    As opposed to modern content that wins itself and the only difference playing well (or at all) can make is a a few extra peanuts in the bag at the end.
    So you want the entire game to be Nintendo-hard and have queues fail just because a new player did the wrong thing? Oh wait, I remember how much most people hated that. MACO gear was only good compared to generic junk gear. In large part because it was tailored to fighting Borg.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • madslater12madslater12 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    kayajay wrote: »
    There are quite a few things from Star Trek Online, which have been removed and that I do miss...

    Memory Alpha, because it was such a fun place to visit.

    There was an STF, where you fought through an armada of ships, to reach some huge X's above a planet.

    Mine Trap, which was without a doubt, my favourite STF.

    Starbase 24, which was incredible for levelling.

    I know the removed episodes like the "Lost Dominion" Arc are still available in the "Available" section, but I don't understand why they're not part of the episode tree (and that unless you know to look for them, you won't find them).

    ...what do you miss?

    There ar 2 things that i miss in STO those ar

    Starbase 24 fighting hordes of klingons
    and the Star trek Foundry where you can create your own playble missions
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