They don't want to support the product anymore. Very simple explanation.
Very much not.
You could argue that the Foundry was free, and was losing them money. You can argue that changes to the queue system and other systems are QoL changes or were necessary, and this isn't the place to debate what's better or worse. But if a Lifetime Subscriber perk isn't sacrosanct, then I have no reason to trust in the future availability of anything else I've spent real money on.
I'll be happy to continue wasting their server bandwidth, but if they go through with this, I will never give Cryptic another dime.
This is the only reason that bought LTS many moons ago. To blame this on "gold sellers" is just a poor excuse for not being able to maintain the system. Seriously Cryptic just for once be honest with your player base. This feature is so useful for fleet management and they're just tossing it away like garbage.. At this point I regret all my purchases in this game.
JJ Connie > TOS Connie
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
Seriously Cryptic just for once be honest with your player base.
Why do you think they are lying now when they were perfectly honest about why they axed the Foundry, and Gateway?
"...it also unfortunately makes it easier for gold spammers and others to reach our chat system."
You think this is truthful?
Have you read the reasons why it can't be, as posted by many in this thread?
As a dev or community officer, or whatever it is you do for Cryptic then perhaps you can find out exactly how gold spammers were gaining access to public channels via a system that can only access private ones?
Somtaawkar is neither a dev, a community officer, and neither does he work for Cryptic. He just uses the forum like others do. I never used XMPP (have no clue what that even stands for except the protocol part) and do not have an LTS (when looking at the page on the Arc page and not the pre-Arc page, that benefit is not raised and is not really a selling point. If it was raised on that page, I could understand some of the furor about the sunset or ending of the support for XMPP. Maybe a livestream would help clear up the confusion and distrust of many people when it comes to do with gold spammers and others to reach our chat system as well as the other objections raised in the thread by the concerned parties involved. As for this happening, it might indeed have been happening and was being exploited by these parties regardless of how far-fetched such an explanation seems to sound to the customer whether Lifetime or not. Truth at times is stranger than fiction. I am tired of some STO players resorting to name-calling, calling Cryptic liars, and resorting to conspiracy theories that have no basis in fact and are based on circumstantial evidence as well as coincidence. Thanks.
Seriously Cryptic just for once be honest with your player base.
Why do you think they are lying now when they were perfectly honest about why they axed the Foundry, and Gateway?
"...it also unfortunately makes it easier for gold spammers and others to reach our chat system."
Please explain how this is truthful knowing that in order to access XMPP out of game chat you need to be either gold or LTS subscriber (which both cost money). Ive been using XMPP since 2012 and I have not once been contacted by a gold spammer.
JJ Connie > TOS Connie
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
Seriously Cryptic just for once be honest with your player base.
Why do you think they are lying now when they were perfectly honest about why they axed the Foundry, and Gateway?
"...it also unfortunately makes it easier for gold spammers and others to reach our chat system."
You think this is truthful?
Have you read the reasons why it can't be, as posted by many in this thread?
As a dev or community officer, or whatever it is you do for Cryptic then perhaps you can find out exactly how gold spammers were gaining access to public channels via a system that can only access private ones?
Somtaawkar is neither a dev, a community officer, and neither does he work for Cryptic. He just uses the forum like others do. I never used XMPP (have no clue what that even stands for except the protocol part) and do not have an LTS (when looking at the page on the Arc page and not the pre-Arc page, that benefit is not raised and is not really a selling point. Also, this affects all Cryptic games that had support for XMPP. If it was raised on that page, I could understand some of the furor about the sunset or ending of the support for XMPP. Maybe a livestream would help clear up the confusion and distrust of many people when it comes to do with gold spammers and others to reach our chat system and the other reasons they gave as well as the other objections raised in the thread by the concerned parties who would be affected by this change. As for this happening, it might indeed have been happening and was being exploited by these parties regardless of how far-fetched such an explanation seems to sound to the customer whether Lifetime or not. Truth at times is stranger than fiction. I am tired of some STO players resorting to name-calling, calling Cryptic liars, and resorting to conspiracy theories that have no basis in fact and are based on circumstantial evidence as well as coincidence. Thanks.
Seriously Cryptic just for once be honest with your player base.
Why do you think they are lying now when they were perfectly honest about why they axed the Foundry, and Gateway?
"...it also unfortunately makes it easier for gold spammers and others to reach our chat system."
You think this is truthful?
Have you read the reasons why it can't be, as posted by many in this thread?
As a dev or community officer, or whatever it is you do for Cryptic then perhaps you can find out exactly how gold spammers were gaining access to public channels via a system that can only access private ones?
Somtaawkar is neither a dev, a community officer, and neither does he work for Cryptic. He just uses the forum like others do. I never used XMPP (have no clue what that even stands for except the protocol part) and do not have an LTS (when looking at the page on the Arc page and not the other, that benefit is not raised and is not really a selling point. If it was raised on that page, I could understand some of the furor about the sunset or ending of the support for XMPP. Maybe a livestream would help clear up the confusion and distrust of many people when it comes to do with gold spammers and others to reach our chat system as well as the other objections raised in the thread by the concerned parties involved. As for this happening, it might indeed have been happening and was being exploited by these parties regardless of how far-fetched such an explanation seems to sound to the customer whether Lifetime or not. Truth at times is stranger than fiction. Thanks.
So XMPP stands for Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol. Think of it as kind of like IRC. For STO it allows access to private channels like your fleet's channel or like some other channel that you might be subscribed to like Redditchat. It however does not allow access to Zone or local chat rooms. Now I do agree that XMPP chat access probably wasn't a huge selling to most. For some like me however, it's a great way to manage your fleet (promotions and other questions). I don't believe in the "excuse" they gave us because in order to have access to xmpp you need to have a paid account.
JJ Connie > TOS Connie
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
First of all it it not the madder of size is it the madder that my screen reader can not read the game chat I can make out shapes in game to play but can not read the words so unless I make the chat so large it takes up the whole screen would not be able to use it. and as far as what legalalert81 I am looking into it
I feel I was wrong in saying what I did. I should have seen it through your shoes. But yeah. I can understand why this is a problem and should have not been as skeptical. Hope to be forgiven for. Hopefully Cryptic can do something to help out people with more visual impairment. But I'd image the coding to make a system like the Xmpp that can use the screen reader program or whatver it is. Could be difficult.
I never used this. Actually, I did not even know it existed. However, unlike some in this thread I do not feel the need to "disagree" or be hostile with those upset over this news. If this sucks for some people, I'm sorry it's happening. That is pretty much the only decent response you should have.
it has been proven that font is a lot harder to see then a figure... normally a screen reader like JAWS would read me what font you would see. well the way STO is written the screen reader can not cut throw the script. In a irc program for example I can have it read because there is no other script to fight with.. We also have problems with websights that have JAVA script of flash. as far as the text in the game I ignore it. there is no training it to read a font that the box is in beaded in a script. you would have to remove all of the other elements of the game. Cryptic if you are listening an idea would be to come up with a chat client that is removed from the game that is ONLY chat. according to federal law as long as they have ANY chat in game they have to make it friendly to the disabled. (already talked to someone I know at the department of Justice who enforces ADA)
[/quote]
You know, I'm not sure. Are there any games that are screen reader friendly?
Games aren't disability friendly just based on how they're designed.
Due to how they're rendered, most "text" in games are just images which look like text. The chat window could even be emulated to support highlighting and copy/paste, but are still not regular UI controls screen readers can identify.
You could make the case to Cryptic to keep it around for that reason, but suing them will go nowhere. But IANAL.
Your best hope is to disable transparency in the chat window, so at least OCR tools have a consistent background color, then try to train it to read STO's specific font.[/quote]
There are several "sources" of anger that this has brought out in players (not just in this forum; but, on Facebook as well).
1.) Things are being "trimmed" away in the name of game progress/performance; but, no real measures are made.
2.) Cryptic makes decisions, askes for players opinions after the fact, and then wonder why backlash is received.
3.) It is often noted in many threads that "devs do not read the forums" and yet, 9 times out of 10: if you have an in-game issues, customer service says to report it to the forum for the devs to see. An oxymoron I think. I recently asked a question about the T6 ships that can be claimed after the tutorial in reference to being able to claim the weapons from the Reclaim Tab that you get access to for having the ship (an example is Spiral Wave Disruptors). The reply I got said that a level 10 should be able to get them. When replying back stating I couldn't: the response was to post it to the forum for the devs to see. Huh?
4.) Yes, I have seen small improvements to the game over the past several years; but, they come at the cost of something else.
5.) Players who have been "faithful" to STO are getting the impression that Cryptic could care less about its user base. True, they have no reason to care; but, like any business: without your customer's you have nothing. That is common sense retail.
6.) Player suggestions and comments go ignored and in some cases mocked by "those in charge."
7.) Granted, I am thankful for the recent content that has been added and the content that is in the works to be added; but, it seems like every time something new is added: something else gets taken away.
8.) This latest announcement goes to show just how out of touch Cryptic is with its player base. I know many players that are in different fleets that run cross faction TFOs together: which will create more difficulties for the players to organize such runs with some players being in different time zones.
9.) I have NEVER see a message from a "gold spammer" in STO... NEVER!! I am in agreement that if an account does that: the account should be banned, not the service.
10.) There are many players, myself included: that view this recent announcement as another "nail in the coffin" of Star Trek Online. Yes, there is not another Star Trek game out there like Star Trek Online; but, that doesn't mean is ok to treat the player base of STO the way that has been treated in the past.
Now that I have typed this and will either:
1.) have the post removed
2.) get flamed by another user -or-
3.) get banned for even making this point.... I will say this...
Apart from seeing posts deleted: there is no real evidence to suggest that Kael or anyone else on the development team at Cryptic will even take the time to read or even address the concerns of its players. I for one do not "get" the reasoning for getting rid of a system that have been used by legitimate users and players for years and all at once it is an issue. I had NEVER heard of gold spamming until this announcement. Therefore, it makes me wonder if the "reason given" is to hide a bigger issue as transparency between Cryptic and its players and vice versus as been muddy at best.
it has been proven that font is a lot harder to see then a figure... normally a screen reader like JAWS would read me what font you would see. well the way STO is written the screen reader can not cut throw the script. In a irc program for example I can have it read because there is no other script to fight with.. We also have problems with websights that have JAVA script of flash. as far as the text in the game I ignore it. there is no training it to read a font that the box is in beaded in a script. you would have to remove all of the other elements of the game. Cryptic if you are listening an idea would be to come up with a chat client that is removed from the game that is ONLY chat. according to federal law as long as they have ANY chat in game they have to make it friendly to the disabled. (already talked to someone I know at the department of Justice who enforces ADA)
You know, I'm not sure. Are there any games that are screen reader friendly?
Games aren't disability friendly just based on how they're designed.
Due to how they're rendered, most "text" in games are just images which look like text. The chat window could even be emulated to support highlighting and copy/paste, but are still not regular UI controls screen readers can identify.
You could make the case to Cryptic to keep it around for that reason, but suing them will go nowhere. But IANAL.
Your best hope is to disable transparency in the chat window, so at least OCR tools have a consistent background color, then try to train it to read STO's specific font.[/quote]
It [/quote]
I just hope this doesn't hurt them to the point where they take out text chat altogether. This is the problem I have with this. I understand needing to make it available. Problem is the coding might have to be changed if its a fundamental part of the game. They could keep the Xmpp but unless thye have plans to change the chat interface to comply. Now if this being removed causes them to break law. Well I think they would be breaking it just by the simple reason of how its pay walled to the extreme making it difficult for those with disabilities to access it. . Plus I'm not sure but if the game was released before the law that was signed by obama which I looked it up I think it was. Not sure what type of legal pull that would have. Since its an older game. If the chat system was released before that law. Not sure if they would have to comply with it for Sto. Unless they do something major. Given they possibly know about the law. There could be ways they can avoid it or maybe they are removing the Xmpp so they can do a chat update to include such provisions. The reason for this I'm guessing such an update would make the chat system more vulnerable. As the code would be more accessible and thus bot spammers would be able to get ahold of it. They'd have to find ways to make it so bots can't bot spam the chats and the systems they put into place.
"...it also unfortunately makes it easier for gold spammers and others to reach our chat system."
Please explain how this is truthful knowing that in order to access XMPP out of game chat you need to be either gold or LTS subscriber (which both cost money). Ive been using XMPP since 2012 and I have not once been contacted by a gold spammer.
Steam requires you pay 100+ dollars to put a game on it and people will put 20-30 scam games at a time on there in one go.
Gold bots and scammers often pay for things like LTS rewards in MMORPGs so they can use the rewards to spam people easier. They end up making so much off of the idiots who buy the gold that they can keep doing it over and over and still turn a profit.
Okay so I saw some updated news on the subreddit which brings truth to what you say. The problem appears to exist in Neverwinter. NW does not have an LTS like STO or Champions does. It has the F2P and the P2P (15$ a month plan) which allows access to XMPP. So instead of cryptic removing P2P and grandfathering everyone one in like they did for STO when they removed P2P. They're just going to nix the entire thing. Standard Cryptic doing standard not trying to fix the issue at hand.
JJ Connie > TOS Connie
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
I don't think anything anyone will say will change Cryptic's minds. This is a business decision, pure and simple. The Foundry was twilighted; XMPP support will be twilighted too.
"...it also unfortunately makes it easier for gold spammers and others to reach our chat system."
Please explain how this is truthful knowing that in order to access XMPP out of game chat you need to be either gold or LTS subscriber (which both cost money). Ive been using XMPP since 2012 and I have not once been contacted by a gold spammer.
Steam requires you pay 100+ dollars to put a game on it and people will put 20-30 scam games at a time on there in one go.
Gold bots and scammers often pay for things like LTS rewards in MMORPGs so they can use the rewards to spam people easier. They end up making so much off of the idiots who buy the gold that they can keep doing it over and over and still turn a profit.
Okay so I saw some updated news on the subreddit which brings truth to what you say. The problem appears to exist in Neverwinter. NW does not have an LTS like STO or Champions does. It has the F2P and the P2P (15$ a month plan) which allows access to XMPP. So instead of cryptic removing P2P and grandfathering everyone one in like they did for STO when they removed P2P. They're just going to nix the entire thing. Standard Cryptic doing standard not trying to fix the issue at hand.
Actually its an ingame subcription you can buy from the zen store. It costs 1000 zen per month. I can see this is the problem I didn't exactly know or maybe I did but forgot that you could use this system if you play Neverwinter. Yeah their chat system is all interconnected. Sto memebers and Co have to have lifetime sub but if you have a 1000 Zen vip plan in Neverwinter they don't need the life time subcription in order to use it If it is true that Neverwinter Vip could allow players access then well its a bummer for those in Co and Sto. I did wonder if it was because of Neverwinter they were doing this. But yeah that is the issue. Botting Problem they have with it isn't Sto its Neverwinter. NEverwinters system is differant from Cos and Stos system for one the currency that has to be used to exchange for zen is the same as the main in game currency Ad. I'm guessing because of this Botters bot Neverwinter because the system makes it easier for them to get players to buy ad. Neverwinter for a time had a very big extensive bot spam problem. It still has bot spammers but not as much. The Xmpp might work differantly for Neverwinter. I don't know I've never used it even though I could if it is tied to vip.
I can understand why now they are doing it if that is the reason. But they could have just coded out the access for vip members in Neverwinter. Maybe add it to some of their expensive pack purchases like the Rengade Drow one that costs like 200 dollars worth of zen.
"...it also unfortunately makes it easier for gold spammers and others to reach our chat system."
Please explain how this is truthful knowing that in order to access XMPP out of game chat you need to be either gold or LTS subscriber (which both cost money). Ive been using XMPP since 2012 and I have not once been contacted by a gold spammer.
Steam requires you pay 100+ dollars to put a game on it and people will put 20-30 scam games at a time on there in one go.
Gold bots and scammers often pay for things like LTS rewards in MMORPGs so they can use the rewards to spam people easier. They end up making so much off of the idiots who buy the gold that they can keep doing it over and over and still turn a profit.
Okay so I saw some updated news on the subreddit which brings truth to what you say. The problem appears to exist in Neverwinter. NW does not have an LTS like STO or Champions does. It has the F2P and the P2P (15$ a month plan) which allows access to XMPP. So instead of cryptic removing P2P and grandfathering everyone one in like they did for STO when they removed P2P. They're just going to nix the entire thing. Standard Cryptic doing standard not trying to fix the issue at hand.
Actually its an ingame subcription you can buy from the zen store. It costs 1000 zen per month. I can see this is the problem I didn't exactly know or maybe I did but forgot that you could use this system if you play Neverwinter. Yeah their chat system is all interconnected. Sto memebers and Co have to have lifetime sub but if you have a 1000 Zen vip plan in Neverwinter they don't need the life time subcription in order to use it. I did wonder if it was because of Neverwinter they were doing this. But yeah that is the issue. Botting Problem they have with it isn't Sto its Neverwinter. NEverwinters system is differant from Cos and Stos system for one the currency that has to be used to exchange for zen is the same as the main in game currency Ad. I'm guessing because of this Botters bot Neverwinter because the system makes it easier for them to get players to buy ad. Neverwinter for a time had a very big extensive bot spam problem. It still has bot spammers but not as much. The Xmpp might work differantly for Neverwinter. I don't know I've never used it even though I could since I've got at least rank 12 vip in Neverwinter active right now.
I can understand why now they are doing it. But they could have just coded out the access for vip members in Neverwinter. Maybe add it to some of their expensive pack purchases like the Rengade Drow one that costs like 200 dollars worth of zen.
I did not know that at all about the ingame sub purchasing. I'm sure at one point that system made absolute sense but with the issues know, they need to change it. It's not worth it in my opinion to hurt the players who are using a feature legitimately just to stop scumbag botters.
NWs chat shouldn't be different from CO and STOs chat cause they're interconnected. I remember one time from pidgin I joined a CO trade chat. I assume it would be the same for NW.
I don't think anything anyone will say will change Cryptic's minds. This is a business decision, pure and simple. The Foundry was twilighted; XMPP support will be twilighted too.
Sadly, I think you're right. I wish you weren't right.
Though I think foundry was actually getting difficult to maintain. Though if the excuse of XMPP was getting hard to maintain that just seems like a sign of incompetence.
P.S I really like your signature there
JJ Connie > TOS Connie
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
"...it also unfortunately makes it easier for gold spammers and others to reach our chat system."
Please explain how this is truthful knowing that in order to access XMPP out of game chat you need to be either gold or LTS subscriber (which both cost money). Ive been using XMPP since 2012 and I have not once been contacted by a gold spammer.
Steam requires you pay 100+ dollars to put a game on it and people will put 20-30 scam games at a time on there in one go.
Gold bots and scammers often pay for things like LTS rewards in MMORPGs so they can use the rewards to spam people easier. They end up making so much off of the idiots who buy the gold that they can keep doing it over and over and still turn a profit.
Okay so I saw some updated news on the subreddit which brings truth to what you say. The problem appears to exist in Neverwinter. NW does not have an LTS like STO or Champions does. It has the F2P and the P2P (15$ a month plan) which allows access to XMPP. So instead of cryptic removing P2P and grandfathering everyone one in like they did for STO when they removed P2P. They're just going to nix the entire thing. Standard Cryptic doing standard not trying to fix the issue at hand.
Actually its an ingame subcription you can buy from the zen store. It costs 1000 zen per month. I can see this is the problem I didn't exactly know or maybe I did but forgot that you could use this system if you play Neverwinter. Yeah their chat system is all interconnected. Sto memebers and Co have to have lifetime sub but if you have a 1000 Zen vip plan in Neverwinter they don't need the life time subcription in order to use it. I did wonder if it was because of Neverwinter they were doing this. But yeah that is the issue. Botting Problem they have with it isn't Sto its Neverwinter. NEverwinters system is differant from Cos and Stos system for one the currency that has to be used to exchange for zen is the same as the main in game currency Ad. I'm guessing because of this Botters bot Neverwinter because the system makes it easier for them to get players to buy ad. Neverwinter for a time had a very big extensive bot spam problem. It still has bot spammers but not as much. The Xmpp might work differantly for Neverwinter. I don't know I've never used it even though I could since I've got at least rank 12 vip in Neverwinter active right now.
I can understand why now they are doing it. But they could have just coded out the access for vip members in Neverwinter. Maybe add it to some of their expensive pack purchases like the Rengade Drow one that costs like 200 dollars worth of zen.
I did not know that at all about the ingame sub purchasing. I'm sure at one point that system made absolute sense but with the issues know, they need to change it. It's not worth it in my opinion to hurt the players who are using a feature legitimately just to stop scumbag botters.
NWs chat shouldn't be different from CO and STOs chat cause they're interconnected. I remember one time from pidgin I joined a CO trade chat. I assume it would be the same for NW.
I don't think anything anyone will say will change Cryptic's minds. This is a business decision, pure and simple. The Foundry was twilighted; XMPP support will be twilighted too.
Sadly, I think you're right. I wish you weren't right.
Though I think foundry was actually getting difficult to maintain. Though if the excuse of XMPP was getting hard to maintain that just seems like a sign of incompetence.
P.S I really like your signature there
I don't know if it allows acces to trade or zone channels. I'm assuming it works the same throughout all the games. But maybe allowed gold sellers to bypass chat restrictions they had in place. To limit the gold sellers. I don't know if Neverwinter is the official reason for this but I can see it being a part of the reason if they did have access to the Xmpp just by having vip. I'd really like to see confirmation from Cryptic if the problems in Neverwinter was the reason behind this decision.
This issue doesn't really effect me, so I don't have much to say.
One thing though, for people pointing out that XMPP is a lifetime perk and therefore doesn't contribute to gold spamming..
While that may be true for Star Trek Online, the service is currently being employed by all of Cryptic's titles like Neverwinter and Champions. Those games might not have that qualification so while we are not seeing it used for spamming in STO, it may be a big problem in other titles.
The retirement message is copy/pasted to all their games including STO, so the information given is not STO specific. It's being retired across all of their titles.
Seriously Cryptic just for once be honest with your player base.
Why do you think they are lying now when they were perfectly honest about why they axed the Foundry, and Gateway?
"...it also unfortunately makes it easier for gold spammers and others to reach our chat system."
Please explain how this is truthful knowing that in order to access XMPP out of game chat you need to be either gold or LTS subscriber (which both cost money). Ive been using XMPP since 2012 and I have not once been contacted by a gold spammer.
Why can't spammers spend money on STO?
Of course, someone also pointed out that Neverwinter actually allows access to XMPP just via a Zen purchase (and you can exchange in-game currency for Zen), not requiring a long-term subscription, so it would be completely possible to just use a Neverwinter account. And that account can now reach all 3 games.
And it ignores the possibility that criminals might actually be willing to break the rules and find a way to bypass the account restrictions in some manner, and fixing loop holes exploited by *gasp* hackers could be challenging and not worth the effort.
And it also ignores that it's just one reason why they remove it. Why do you focus only on that one, does that remove the other? And if you look at the "other" reason (maintaining it is too much effort) was applied to the Foundry without any alternate stories, and the Foundry was a far bigger game feature than some bonus feature of their chat system that many people didn't even know existed!
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Very much not.
You could argue that the Foundry was free, and was losing them money. You can argue that changes to the queue system and other systems are QoL changes or were necessary, and this isn't the place to debate what's better or worse. But if a Lifetime Subscriber perk isn't sacrosanct, then I have no reason to trust in the future availability of anything else I've spent real money on.
I'll be happy to continue wasting their server bandwidth, but if they go through with this, I will never give Cryptic another dime.
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
Somtaawkar is neither a dev, a community officer, and neither does he work for Cryptic. He just uses the forum like others do. I never used XMPP (have no clue what that even stands for except the protocol part) and do not have an LTS (when looking at the page on the Arc page and not the pre-Arc page, that benefit is not raised and is not really a selling point. If it was raised on that page, I could understand some of the furor about the sunset or ending of the support for XMPP. Maybe a livestream would help clear up the confusion and distrust of many people when it comes to do with gold spammers and others to reach our chat system as well as the other objections raised in the thread by the concerned parties involved. As for this happening, it might indeed have been happening and was being exploited by these parties regardless of how far-fetched such an explanation seems to sound to the customer whether Lifetime or not. Truth at times is stranger than fiction. I am tired of some STO players resorting to name-calling, calling Cryptic liars, and resorting to conspiracy theories that have no basis in fact and are based on circumstantial evidence as well as coincidence. Thanks.
"...it also unfortunately makes it easier for gold spammers and others to reach our chat system."
Please explain how this is truthful knowing that in order to access XMPP out of game chat you need to be either gold or LTS subscriber (which both cost money). Ive been using XMPP since 2012 and I have not once been contacted by a gold spammer.
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
So XMPP stands for Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol. Think of it as kind of like IRC. For STO it allows access to private channels like your fleet's channel or like some other channel that you might be subscribed to like Redditchat. It however does not allow access to Zone or local chat rooms. Now I do agree that XMPP chat access probably wasn't a huge selling to most. For some like me however, it's a great way to manage your fleet (promotions and other questions). I don't believe in the "excuse" they gave us because in order to have access to xmpp you need to have a paid account.
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
I feel I was wrong in saying what I did. I should have seen it through your shoes. But yeah. I can understand why this is a problem and should have not been as skeptical. Hope to be forgiven for. Hopefully Cryptic can do something to help out people with more visual impairment. But I'd image the coding to make a system like the Xmpp that can use the screen reader program or whatver it is. Could be difficult.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
[/quote]
You know, I'm not sure. Are there any games that are screen reader friendly?
Games aren't disability friendly just based on how they're designed.
Due to how they're rendered, most "text" in games are just images which look like text. The chat window could even be emulated to support highlighting and copy/paste, but are still not regular UI controls screen readers can identify.
You could make the case to Cryptic to keep it around for that reason, but suing them will go nowhere. But IANAL.
Your best hope is to disable transparency in the chat window, so at least OCR tools have a consistent background color, then try to train it to read STO's specific font.[/quote]
It
1.) Things are being "trimmed" away in the name of game progress/performance; but, no real measures are made.
2.) Cryptic makes decisions, askes for players opinions after the fact, and then wonder why backlash is received.
3.) It is often noted in many threads that "devs do not read the forums" and yet, 9 times out of 10: if you have an in-game issues, customer service says to report it to the forum for the devs to see. An oxymoron I think. I recently asked a question about the T6 ships that can be claimed after the tutorial in reference to being able to claim the weapons from the Reclaim Tab that you get access to for having the ship (an example is Spiral Wave Disruptors). The reply I got said that a level 10 should be able to get them. When replying back stating I couldn't: the response was to post it to the forum for the devs to see. Huh?
4.) Yes, I have seen small improvements to the game over the past several years; but, they come at the cost of something else.
5.) Players who have been "faithful" to STO are getting the impression that Cryptic could care less about its user base. True, they have no reason to care; but, like any business: without your customer's you have nothing. That is common sense retail.
6.) Player suggestions and comments go ignored and in some cases mocked by "those in charge."
7.) Granted, I am thankful for the recent content that has been added and the content that is in the works to be added; but, it seems like every time something new is added: something else gets taken away.
8.) This latest announcement goes to show just how out of touch Cryptic is with its player base. I know many players that are in different fleets that run cross faction TFOs together: which will create more difficulties for the players to organize such runs with some players being in different time zones.
9.) I have NEVER see a message from a "gold spammer" in STO... NEVER!! I am in agreement that if an account does that: the account should be banned, not the service.
10.) There are many players, myself included: that view this recent announcement as another "nail in the coffin" of Star Trek Online. Yes, there is not another Star Trek game out there like Star Trek Online; but, that doesn't mean is ok to treat the player base of STO the way that has been treated in the past.
Now that I have typed this and will either:
1.) have the post removed
2.) get flamed by another user -or-
3.) get banned for even making this point.... I will say this...
Apart from seeing posts deleted: there is no real evidence to suggest that Kael or anyone else on the development team at Cryptic will even take the time to read or even address the concerns of its players. I for one do not "get" the reasoning for getting rid of a system that have been used by legitimate users and players for years and all at once it is an issue. I had NEVER heard of gold spamming until this announcement. Therefore, it makes me wonder if the "reason given" is to hide a bigger issue as transparency between Cryptic and its players and vice versus as been muddy at best.
You know, I'm not sure. Are there any games that are screen reader friendly?
Games aren't disability friendly just based on how they're designed.
Due to how they're rendered, most "text" in games are just images which look like text. The chat window could even be emulated to support highlighting and copy/paste, but are still not regular UI controls screen readers can identify.
You could make the case to Cryptic to keep it around for that reason, but suing them will go nowhere. But IANAL.
Your best hope is to disable transparency in the chat window, so at least OCR tools have a consistent background color, then try to train it to read STO's specific font.[/quote]
It [/quote]
I just hope this doesn't hurt them to the point where they take out text chat altogether. This is the problem I have with this. I understand needing to make it available. Problem is the coding might have to be changed if its a fundamental part of the game. They could keep the Xmpp but unless thye have plans to change the chat interface to comply. Now if this being removed causes them to break law. Well I think they would be breaking it just by the simple reason of how its pay walled to the extreme making it difficult for those with disabilities to access it. . Plus I'm not sure but if the game was released before the law that was signed by obama which I looked it up I think it was. Not sure what type of legal pull that would have. Since its an older game. If the chat system was released before that law. Not sure if they would have to comply with it for Sto. Unless they do something major. Given they possibly know about the law. There could be ways they can avoid it or maybe they are removing the Xmpp so they can do a chat update to include such provisions. The reason for this I'm guessing such an update would make the chat system more vulnerable. As the code would be more accessible and thus bot spammers would be able to get ahold of it. They'd have to find ways to make it so bots can't bot spam the chats and the systems they put into place.
Okay so I saw some updated news on the subreddit which brings truth to what you say. The problem appears to exist in Neverwinter. NW does not have an LTS like STO or Champions does. It has the F2P and the P2P (15$ a month plan) which allows access to XMPP. So instead of cryptic removing P2P and grandfathering everyone one in like they did for STO when they removed P2P. They're just going to nix the entire thing. Standard Cryptic doing standard not trying to fix the issue at hand.
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
Actually its an ingame subcription you can buy from the zen store. It costs 1000 zen per month. I can see this is the problem I didn't exactly know or maybe I did but forgot that you could use this system if you play Neverwinter. Yeah their chat system is all interconnected. Sto memebers and Co have to have lifetime sub but if you have a 1000 Zen vip plan in Neverwinter they don't need the life time subcription in order to use it If it is true that Neverwinter Vip could allow players access then well its a bummer for those in Co and Sto. I did wonder if it was because of Neverwinter they were doing this. But yeah that is the issue. Botting Problem they have with it isn't Sto its Neverwinter. NEverwinters system is differant from Cos and Stos system for one the currency that has to be used to exchange for zen is the same as the main in game currency Ad. I'm guessing because of this Botters bot Neverwinter because the system makes it easier for them to get players to buy ad. Neverwinter for a time had a very big extensive bot spam problem. It still has bot spammers but not as much. The Xmpp might work differantly for Neverwinter. I don't know I've never used it even though I could if it is tied to vip.
I can understand why now they are doing it if that is the reason. But they could have just coded out the access for vip members in Neverwinter. Maybe add it to some of their expensive pack purchases like the Rengade Drow one that costs like 200 dollars worth of zen.
I did not know that at all about the ingame sub purchasing. I'm sure at one point that system made absolute sense but with the issues know, they need to change it. It's not worth it in my opinion to hurt the players who are using a feature legitimately just to stop scumbag botters.
NWs chat shouldn't be different from CO and STOs chat cause they're interconnected. I remember one time from pidgin I joined a CO trade chat. I assume it would be the same for NW.
Sadly, I think you're right. I wish you weren't right.
Though I think foundry was actually getting difficult to maintain. Though if the excuse of XMPP was getting hard to maintain that just seems like a sign of incompetence.
P.S I really like your signature there
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
I don't know if it allows acces to trade or zone channels. I'm assuming it works the same throughout all the games. But maybe allowed gold sellers to bypass chat restrictions they had in place. To limit the gold sellers. I don't know if Neverwinter is the official reason for this but I can see it being a part of the reason if they did have access to the Xmpp just by having vip. I'd really like to see confirmation from Cryptic if the problems in Neverwinter was the reason behind this decision.
One thing though, for people pointing out that XMPP is a lifetime perk and therefore doesn't contribute to gold spamming..
While that may be true for Star Trek Online, the service is currently being employed by all of Cryptic's titles like Neverwinter and Champions. Those games might not have that qualification so while we are not seeing it used for spamming in STO, it may be a big problem in other titles.
The retirement message is copy/pasted to all their games including STO, so the information given is not STO specific. It's being retired across all of their titles.
Source.
Of course, someone also pointed out that Neverwinter actually allows access to XMPP just via a Zen purchase (and you can exchange in-game currency for Zen), not requiring a long-term subscription, so it would be completely possible to just use a Neverwinter account. And that account can now reach all 3 games.
And it ignores the possibility that criminals might actually be willing to break the rules and find a way to bypass the account restrictions in some manner, and fixing loop holes exploited by *gasp* hackers could be challenging and not worth the effort.
And it also ignores that it's just one reason why they remove it. Why do you focus only on that one, does that remove the other? And if you look at the "other" reason (maintaining it is too much effort) was applied to the Foundry without any alternate stories, and the Foundry was a far bigger game feature than some bonus feature of their chat system that many people didn't even know existed!