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What purpose do R&D mats serve?

angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
edited September 2023 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
There might be an obvious answer to this, but is there really?

My reason for asking this is not only in the light of the recent R&D promo, people often claim that they just open packs for the mats (and Lobi). However, do they really?

You cannot craft anything of value, really. At least nothing that would justify actually buying mats with money. You easily get enough to craft a few plasma torps, TR-116 thingies and such through gameplay. All the other weapons are really outclassed by rep gear, box gear or rewards safe for that perfectly crafted thing with the right meta mods but that's also not as high in demand last time I checked.

And then there are upgrades - but the best upgrades in the game do not require classic materials at all. The best, Phoenix upgrades, cost dilithium. Second best, Omega upgrades, require Omega mats you don't get from R&D packs. And Romulan upgrades require grind/time.

What am I missing here?​​
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^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
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Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,512 Arc User
    R&D packs are a terrible deal right now because as you say the mats are worthless and only the modifiers / catalysts have value.

    That's a big reason why pack ships cost so much more than lock box ships: in a lock box there are things like weapons that people will pay good money for. Mats are vendor trash.
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    xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
    Well, there are some fleet projects requiring mats ... new toons may want to get some via account bank for R&D ... apart from that I am at a loss, too.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
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    annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,600 Arc User
    oooohhhhhkkkkaaaayyyyyyy
    thats why some crafted weapons out there go for a couple mil +
    We Want Vic Fontaine
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,512 Arc User
    To be clear, I do use a pile of white mats when I want to craft something like a set of Mk II beams with the [ pen ] mod, or starter gear for a new alt.

    But thanks to doffing, admiralty and salvage I have a lifetime supply of them. The extra mats from an R&D pack are useless.
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    warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    [Pen]
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,512 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    [Pen]

    Beat you by 2 minutes :)

    Have you ever run out of white mats in the last year? The mats in R&D packs are useless unless you just started playing and have not been doing admiralty or doffing.

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    angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    [Pen]

    Yes, but dont you craft Mk II and just use upgrades from that point on?​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
    #TASforSTO
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
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    warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    [Pen]

    Yes, but dont you craft Mk II and just use upgrades from that point on?​​
    On the regular weapons, yes.

    But the specials can't be done at mk2.
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    gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    I build every single weapon until level X, for new chars, as are less expensive than upgrade them, unles they have excellent mods..
    Post edited by gaevsman on
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
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    thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    My reason for asking this is not only in the light of the recent R&D promo, people often claim that they just open packs for the mats (and Lobi). However, do they really?

    Let's reason this out a bit. If they aren't opening packs for mats and lobi, we would assume they are opening them for the ship, right? Meaning, the ship is the thing they want. Meaning if they get the ship, they aren't going to sell it on the exchange...because they want it. So the very fact that ships are for sale on the exchange is a pretty strong indicator that people are opening boxes not wanting the ships.

    Now granted, some people may hope to get a ship to then sell on the exchange for EC. But if EC is their actual goal why open packs instead of selling the packs on the exchange for EC? IMHO the only people opening packs specifically to get the ship specifically to then turn around and sell for EC are people who are buying them off the exchange for EC and have so much EC that they don't mind 'gambling' with it.

    But in general, I think the people selling the ships are people opening the packs for something else and not wanting the ship..or they wouldn't be selling it.
    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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    peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    angrytarg wrote: »

    What am I missing here?​​

    If u happen to have too many blue mats I gladly buy em from you. :)

    Oh and if you happen to craft a Hypercapacitor Shield with 5 cap mods we could get into a deal as well. I payed for the last one 650M EC. Its EC earned via crafting and lost via crafting again so alls easy. ;)
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    rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,020 Community Moderator
    thegrandnagus1 wrote: »
    So the very fact that ships are for sale on the exchange is a pretty strong indicator that people are opening boxes not wanting the ships.

    I will gladly accept donations of unwanted ships. ;)
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    mainamaina Member Posts: 430 Arc User
    While I play, my main crafts upgrades. 10 shield was selling for 600K just 2 days ago. Some upgrades run 450K to 600K+ for 10, normally, upgrade weekends you make bank. The "better" upgrades are what I use, but you overestimate how many people use them.

    Mats are also good if you are running farming alts through the fleet research mission for Dil.

    The mats are so cheap themselves, that if I had to buy a stack to continue making upgrades, it wouldn't really change my bottom line much.

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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    Well, they have the Catalyst and upgrade boosts, those are nice.

    I'd say it has more use then the Competitive Reputation consumables...
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,512 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    gaevsman wrote: »
    I build every single weapon until level X, for new chars, as are less expensive than upgrade them, unles they have excellent mods..

    You usually pay much more than that later on if you want UR or Epic beams, since you threw away 8 almost-free chances for a rarity increase.

    Also, if you want [ pen ] it's going to be expensive in mats and time to craft them at X instead of II. You can't re-engineer to get it later.

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    echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,914 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    I agree with dave. Crafting at Mk II is much better.

    You get more chances to get them to UR/Epic than if you craft at Mk X. Mk II also takes plain white mats, while Mk X takes more than just plain mats. One VR upgrade will get most things to Mk VIII before you need to apply more upgrade kits.

    It's simply more sensible if you want better gear, craft at Mk II VR. Easy to do as soon as you reach lvl 10 crafting school.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
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    salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    R&D mats used to have more value when the system was initially revamped in 2014. The value of said mats slowly declined as we all acquired more of them and players bit by bit acquired the weapons they desired. Then we got new was of acquiring mats with very few ways to get rid of them since now we have more than we've ever had before and we need them less than we have ever needed them. To top it off, re-engineering has made mats even more worthless since we can just re-engineer out way out of vendortrash crafting fails.

    Maybe some new uses for mats would be nice. Maybe in addition to salvage and dilithium, re-engineering could require some R&D mats as well. Maybe some new doff missions that require more mats or some new as yet unseen system like exploration could require them.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
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    lordmerc22lordmerc22 Member Posts: 776 Arc User
    I still like to place a crafted wide cannon, a crafted omni beam or particle emission plasma torp depending on build and ship as well. Pen is also useful for many builds. R&D isnt useless but it could use some love, new items to be added etc. Its a system that hasnt been updated in a long time
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    seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    People still use regular upgrade kits.. they use a lot of them.

    Trust me, I know.. I am usually the one selling them. :lol:

    I think this is because, while Phoenix Kits are obviously the best, there are limited times during which you can get them. Right now for example, there is a ship promo and people are getting shiny new ships with these super cool looking weapons that come at Mark XII Very Rare. If people don't have Phoenix Kits then the 'I want it now' mentality kicks in and they are off to pick up Superior Kits. They might not be 'the best' but they're available in mass quantity.. always.

    Myself, I am a little short on Phoenix right now, and I don't upgrade unless it's an upgrade weekend, so I am content to wait.

    There are a lot of players in this game that either don't know Phoenix are better or they simply don't care. Superior Kits are in high demand still and are what most people probably use the RnD packs for. The other thing they offer is the accelerators which are also highly sought after, especially the 2x Quality Improvement kits. They usually run about 2M a pop on the exchange.

    Overall, I agree with the OP 100%. Mostly, these packs are useless in my opinion. I use Phoenix to upgrade and I craft items at Mark II and use Omegas to get them to max quality. The fact is though, that Superior Kits are still used by a lot of players and are in high demand. It's not like they're 'bad,' they're just not 'the best.' They have the advantage though of being available 24/7 and I honestly think that's the bulk of their appeal.

    Either way, people keep buying em, I'll keep selling em. :smiley:
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    lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,825 Arc User
    There are still items that are crafted the every day player may use...upgrade kits...devices and or batteries...pen isn't as big as it used to be it used to be HUGE.
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    gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    davefenestrator wrote: »
    gaevsman wrote: »
    I build every single weapon until level X, for new chars, as are less expensive than upgrade them, unles they have excellent mods..

    You usually pay much more than that later on if you want UR or Epic beams, since you threw away 8 almost-free chances for a rarity increase.

    Also, if you want [ pen ] it's going to be expensive in mats and time to craft them at X instead of II. You can't re-engineer to get it later.

    Yeah, its just that i'm tired of crafting 20 mk2 to get the mods i want… so i dont bother anymore, if i'm lucky and get Pen, then i upgrade that one, im just happy to get things with Dmg, and salvage the older ones..
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
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    ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    Why all the extra crafting, can't you just reengineer it to what you want?
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
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    postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,899 Arc User
    According to the splash screen advert the R&D boxes contain valuable materials.

    Presumably that was written by someone who cornered the sacrificial virgin market before opening their endeavour "rewards" or they are simply blind to the saturation of the raw materials.

    The R&D system is a timesinky drudge and a wasted opportunity which badly needs something done to improve it. Not a sidegrade thing like salvage but to the actual crafting side.
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    rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,020 Community Moderator
    ltminns wrote: »
    Why all the extra crafting, can't you just reengineer it to what you want?

    No. There are some mods that can ONLY be obtained through crafting, such as [Pen]. You cannot roll that in re-engineering.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    ltminns wrote: »
    Why all the extra crafting, can't you just reengineer it to what you want?

    No. There are some mods that can ONLY be obtained through crafting, such as [Pen]. You cannot roll that in re-engineering.

    This!.. Pen, Rapid, Spr, Over are only available in crafting, and cannot be re-roll
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
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    seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    gaevsman wrote: »
    davefenestrator wrote: »
    gaevsman wrote: »
    I build every single weapon until level X, for new chars, as are less expensive than upgrade them, unles they have excellent mods..

    You usually pay much more than that later on if you want UR or Epic beams, since you threw away 8 almost-free chances for a rarity increase.

    Also, if you want [ pen ] it's going to be expensive in mats and time to craft them at X instead of II. You can't re-engineer to get it later.

    Yeah, its just that i'm tired of crafting 20 mk2 to get the mods i want… so i dont bother anymore, if i'm lucky and get Pen, then i upgrade that one, im just happy to get things with Dmg, and salvage the older ones..


    This post must be from 2 years ago, because this really isn't a problem anymore. :lol:

    All you need is the one Pen mod, you can re-roll the others so it's not that hard to get. Last time I did it, I didn't get a Pen weapon in the first batch of 6 that I made so I just bought one off the exchange for like 10k EC.
    Insert witty signature line here.
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    gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    seaofsorrows wrote: »
    gaevsman wrote: »
    davefenestrator wrote: »
    gaevsman wrote: »
    I build every single weapon until level X, for new chars, as are less expensive than upgrade them, unles they have excellent mods..

    You usually pay much more than that later on if you want UR or Epic beams, since you threw away 8 almost-free chances for a rarity increase.

    Also, if you want [ pen ] it's going to be expensive in mats and time to craft them at X instead of II. You can't re-engineer to get it later.

    Yeah, its just that i'm tired of crafting 20 mk2 to get the mods i want… so i dont bother anymore, if i'm lucky and get Pen, then i upgrade that one, im just happy to get things with Dmg, and salvage the older ones..


    This post must be from 2 years ago, because this really isn't a problem anymore. :lol:

    All you need is the one Pen mod, you can re-roll the others so it's not that hard to get. Last time I did it, I didn't get a Pen weapon in the first batch of 6 that I made so I just bought one off the exchange for like 10k EC.

    Yeah, i know you can buy it.. but i like to craft it.. call me crazy :smiley: and most of the time i'm verry unlucky with mods.. sooooo.. i simply do that..
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,512 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    One of the nice things about having several alts with R&D Beams school at 15+ is I can craft 20+Mk II beams at once every 5 minutes without breaking a sweat. Getting a set of [Pen] or [Over] is easy.
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