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More Starship Trait Slots?

Hi there.

With the growing number of t6 ship releases, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to fit some of the newer starship traits onto my build style. This has impeded my desire to buy the ships as I have nowhere to put those t6 traits.

This is a request/suggestion for more Starship Trait Slots please. I think its high time they were expanded, much in the same way that personal traits were.
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Comments

  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,799 Arc User
    personally I was and still am against the space/ground spilt for personal traits. and likewise am against more starship traits. it would more power creep, which should only ever very carefully. once would probably be fine but it'ld open the door to doing it again. and outside of a very few select areas and things cbs tells them to do/not do. cryptic is pretty weak willed to anything fans ask for.

    as far as the build style problem, sounds like your either going with some else's template, or just really inflexible. the answer is the same in any case. revisit how you make your builds and try to improve the flexablity of how you make em., if only slapping your own hand when you go to slot must haves or things you always slot.

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • arionisaarionisa Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    I vote no. A big part of playing STO, or just about any MMO type game is the diversity of your build. You get many, many options for gear, skills, traits (or whatever each game actually calls them) but you can only equip/select/use X number of them at a time. This game mechanic means you have literally hundreds, if not thousands of combinations available to make your character unique to you instead of nothing more than a clone of every other player in the game just with a different name.

    I will admit that only being able to use X number of traits makes no logical sense. You have been trained in a number of different things but for some reason you can't use that training without specifically deciding to use it ahead of time. That's kind of like someone who is say, an auto mechanic, carpenter, plumber and electrician. He leaves home, all set up to go do some plumbing work and on his way to the work site, his car breaks down. So, he stands there staring at his car like a monkey with rubiks cube, unable to get it running again because he can't remember how to fix a car due to thinking he was going to be doing plumbing work today.

    Gear limits actually make sense. It doesn't matter that you have enough gear to outfit a small army, and own more tools than the entire snap-on corporation, you can only carry/haul X amount of stuff at once so you have to pick and choose based on what you think you are going to need. Skills (traits) are learned knowledge and realistically will always be with you, anywhere, any time. But this is a game and cold already said it quite well.

    Having a limit on how many straits you can slot at one time is a big part of what keeps the players with fat wallets from just buying their way into being so ridiculously overpowered that those without fat wallets won't even want to play. Whales might own every single ship in the game, and have every trait that exists, but they can still only use 4 (or 5) allowing non whales to at least be close to being on the same level.

    Even without that aspect, even F2P players who have never spent one single zen on this game can still easily become so overpowered that anything short of Elite content is so easy it's almost a snooze fest. Why would anyone want to make that even worse ?
    LTS and loving it.
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  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    arionisa wrote: »
    I vote no. A big part of playing STO, or just about any MMO type game is the diversity of your build. You get many, many options for gear, skills, traits (or whatever each game actually calls them) but you can only equip/select/use X number of them at a time. This game mechanic means you have literally hundreds, if not thousands of combinations available to make your character unique to you instead of nothing more than a clone of every other player in the game just with a different name.

    I will admit that only being able to use X number of traits makes no logical sense. You have been trained in a number of different things but for some reason you can't use that training without specifically deciding to use it ahead of time. That's kind of like someone who is say, an auto mechanic, carpenter, plumber and electrician. He leaves home, all set up to go do some plumbing work and on his way to the work site, his car breaks down. So, he stands there staring at his car like a monkey with rubiks cube, unable to get it running again because he can't remember how to fix a car due to thinking he was going to be doing plumbing work today.

    Gear limits actually make sense. It doesn't matter that you have enough gear to outfit a small army, and own more tools than the entire snap-on corporation, you can only carry/haul X amount of stuff at once so you have to pick and choose based on what you think you are going to need. Skills (traits) are learned knowledge and realistically will always be with you, anywhere, any time. But this is a game and cold already said it quite well.

    Having a limit on how many straits you can slot at one time is a big part of what keeps the players with fat wallets from just buying their way into being so ridiculously overpowered that those without fat wallets won't even want to play. Whales might own every single ship in the game, and have every trait that exists, but they can still only use 4 (or 5) allowing non whales to at least be close to being on the same level.

    Even without that aspect, even F2P players who have never spent one single zen on this game can still easily become so overpowered that anything short of Elite content is so easy it's almost a snooze fest. Why would anyone want to make that even worse ?

    This is where I've been one of the few saying, "Make the game harder." since it's entirely to easy now. I'm an F2P player, never bought a single C-store ship. Just some lobi ones, like the Maquis Raider, off the exchange. I used the event T6 ships when got them. Until this, which my first was the Xyfius Heavy Escort from Lohlunat, almost 4 years ago, I played up through the Ico war in the promotion Patrol Escort from level 40.

    I actually ran into someone yesterday that said, "They did make the game harder."

    All I could reply with was...

    "They just made npcs of level 55+ do less damage. Yeah... they've made the game harder."

    Seriously, after getting full Epic out my main, I have yet to find a reason, on my other character, to bother with upgrading past VR Mk XII, or the UR Mk XIII rep gear. Literally, with that, and a bit off attention to your build, Advanced is a cake walk.

    As to the OP's suggestion. This is not a no. This is a Hell NO. You can take any thoughts of more powercreep straight to Gre'thor and leave it there. Of course, with the hope the fek'lhri pick it up and use to steamroll the playerbase.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,679 Arc User
    And this just proves that you don't need the latest ship to get through content in this game. I do just fine in T5 and T5-U ships.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

    xp8s7wd.jpg
  • spielman1spielman1 Member Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    And this just proves that you don't need the latest ship to get through content in this game. I do just fine in T5 and T5-U ships.

    Funny thing is I can o a TFO in my Miranda Start ship and still outlast the so called good T6 ships out there why they do all nothing but die 300 times a mission and force other carry theme. The latest event proved that do nothing and get rewarded die multiple times and get rewarded.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,533 Arc User
    Limitations make the game more interesting. If you can equip every ship trait you've earned it's too easy.

    SWTOR became much less fun for me when they nerfed the difficulty for level 1-50 a few years back, forcing all players to play in "story mode"
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    Limitations make the game more interesting. If you can equip every ship trait you've earned it's too easy.

    SWTOR became much less fun for me when they nerfed the difficulty for level 1-50 a few years back, forcing all players to play in "story mode"

    SWTOR lost me when they bent the silver customers over on what they could use, which was at the Reven expansion. Same with FF XIV.

    WoW lost me for a bit with the easy mode of Cataclysm. Warlords of Draenor and Legion made it even worse and drove the final nail in the coffin there.

    Right now with how STO is. I generally log in, do my endeavors, start some admiralty, refine some dil, and log out. I don't even do the alt routine any more. Because, to me personally, the game is so easy that it's boring.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,533 Arc User
    trennan wrote: »
    Limitations make the game more interesting. If you can equip every ship trait you've earned it's too easy.

    SWTOR became much less fun for me when they nerfed the difficulty for level 1-50 a few years back, forcing all players to play in "story mode"

    SWTOR lost me when they bent the silver customers over on what they could use, which was at the Reven expansion. Same with FF XIV.

    WoW lost me for a bit with the easy mode of Cataclysm. Warlords of Draenor and Legion made it even worse and drove the final nail in the coffin there.

    Right now with how STO is. I generally log in, do my endeavors, start some admiralty, refine some dil, and log out. I don't even do the alt routine any more. Because, to me personally, the game is so easy that it's boring.

    At least with STO you can choose a higher difficulty level, or remove gear and/or traits to give yourself a handicap.



  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,742 Arc User
    As a filthy DPS'er that always wants more power..

    Even I am against this idea. It would just be too much power creep.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,462 Arc User
    All Active and Passive Reputation Traits, all availible Personal Traits, Starship Mastery Traits, and all Specializations should be usable by a Character simultaneously. :)

    Gary Mitchell would be jealous. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    Limitations make the game more interesting. If you can equip every ship trait you've earned it's too easy.

    SWTOR became much less fun for me when they nerfed the difficulty for level 1-50 a few years back, forcing all players to play in "story mode"
    Meh, the game IS too easy, has been since they axed the fail conditions and keeps getting easier every season. I'd say that adding more trait slots couldn't make the game much easier anymore, simply because it literally can't get any easier than "guaranteed win every time no matter what you do."
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,800 Community Moderator
    warpangel wrote: »
    has been since they axed the fail conditions

    Fail conditions that were being exploited by Trolls way too easily.

    Anyways... the number of ship trait slots is fine as is. It makes you think about which traits will fit your playstyle the most, and you have to compromise in some cases. Its no different than any other game where you have to make choices regarding your builds.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
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  • chainfallchainfall Member Posts: 243 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Ground and Space separation of personal traits definitely needed to happen, but reputation and starship traits are a comparative gray area. As was pointed out already, it only adds more power creep to a game that already hands you the keys to what is effectively godhood. So I'd say give us double the slots, but then we have to choose between full power traits (2 slots) or half power traits (1 slot) that would have half the effect or half the duration if the effect is absolute. So to get what you have now, you'd still end up with 5 strong traits, or more variety and have up to 10.
    STO would have been better as a Stargate MMO than it is as Star Trek. Go figure.

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    Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier Exterminatus
  • redwren89redwren89 Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    nightken wrote: »
    personally I was and still am against the space/ground spilt for personal traits. and likewise am against more starship traits. it would more power creep, which should only ever very carefully. once would probably be fine but it'ld open the door to doing it again. and outside of a very few select areas and things cbs tells them to do/not do. cryptic is pretty weak willed to anything fans ask for.

    as far as the build style problem, sounds like your either going with some else's template, or just really inflexible. the answer is the same in any case. revisit how you make your builds and try to improve the flexablity of how you make em., if only slapping your own hand when you go to slot must haves or things you always slot.

    I totally disagree - the more ships they bring out with traits, the harder it is to choose amongst them. The very nature of creating a flexible build is self defeating given this current climate, and the lack of extra starship trait slots.

    And yes its my build :)
  • redwren89redwren89 Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    So...you want MORE pay to win in this game? One of the good aspects of this game that still exists is the low super low levels of pay to win aspects. How about no to this idea. But that is from a good of the player perspective. From a good of the company perspective, they should like double our starship traits slots to sell more ships. And quite frankly quite surprised they have not done so at this point as they seem to care not on bit about their player base at this point.

    I'm surprised they haven't done this either but it would do them a great deal of good business to expand this, even by just a couple slots
  • redwren89redwren89 Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    arionisa wrote: »
    I vote no. A big part of playing STO, or just about any MMO type game is the diversity of your build. You get many, many options for gear, skills, traits (or whatever each game actually calls them) but you can only equip/select/use X number of them at a time. This game mechanic means you have literally hundreds, if not thousands of combinations available to make your character unique to you instead of nothing more than a clone of every other player in the game just with a different name.

    I will admit that only being able to use X number of traits makes no logical sense. You have been trained in a number of different things but for some reason you can't use that training without specifically deciding to use it ahead of time. That's kind of like someone who is say, an auto mechanic, carpenter, plumber and electrician. He leaves home, all set up to go do some plumbing work and on his way to the work site, his car breaks down. So, he stands there staring at his car like a monkey with rubiks cube, unable to get it running again because he can't remember how to fix a car due to thinking he was going to be doing plumbing work today.

    Gear limits actually make sense. It doesn't matter that you have enough gear to outfit a small army, and own more tools than the entire snap-on corporation, you can only carry/haul X amount of stuff at once so you have to pick and choose based on what you think you are going to need. Skills (traits) are learned knowledge and realistically will always be with you, anywhere, any time. But this is a game and cold already said it quite well.

    Having a limit on how many straits you can slot at one time is a big part of what keeps the players with fat wallets from just buying their way into being so ridiculously overpowered that those without fat wallets won't even want to play. Whales might own every single ship in the game, and have every trait that exists, but they can still only use 4 (or 5) allowing non whales to at least be close to being on the same level.

    Even without that aspect, even F2P players who have never spent one single zen on this game can still easily become so overpowered that anything short of Elite content is so easy it's almost a snooze fest. Why would anyone want to make that even worse ?

    Working flexibility into an illogical game structure seems a common theme. But you're missing the point. The limit is there, just increase it in response to the giant soup of starship traits now available, thats all. I dont recall there being less than 5 free to play starship traits.
  • redwren89redwren89 Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    As a filthy DPS'er that always wants more power..

    Even I am against this idea. It would just be too much power creep.

    Its not too much, just a logical progression
  • redwren89redwren89 Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    All Active and Passive Reputation Traits, all availible Personal Traits, Starship Mastery Traits, and all Specializations should be usable by a Character simultaneously. :)

    Gary Mitchell would be jealous. ;)

    #power creep# all the way. how else they going to make money? the point is there's too many t6 ship releases, not enough space to put their traits - think i'll just wait Gary :p
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    redwren89 wrote: »
    arionisa wrote: »
    I vote no. A big part of playing STO, or just about any MMO type game is the diversity of your build. You get many, many options for gear, skills, traits (or whatever each game actually calls them) but you can only equip/select/use X number of them at a time. This game mechanic means you have literally hundreds, if not thousands of combinations available to make your character unique to you instead of nothing more than a clone of every other player in the game just with a different name.

    I will admit that only being able to use X number of traits makes no logical sense. You have been trained in a number of different things but for some reason you can't use that training without specifically deciding to use it ahead of time. That's kind of like someone who is say, an auto mechanic, carpenter, plumber and electrician. He leaves home, all set up to go do some plumbing work and on his way to the work site, his car breaks down. So, he stands there staring at his car like a monkey with rubiks cube, unable to get it running again because he can't remember how to fix a car due to thinking he was going to be doing plumbing work today.

    Gear limits actually make sense. It doesn't matter that you have enough gear to outfit a small army, and own more tools than the entire snap-on corporation, you can only carry/haul X amount of stuff at once so you have to pick and choose based on what you think you are going to need. Skills (traits) are learned knowledge and realistically will always be with you, anywhere, any time. But this is a game and cold already said it quite well.

    Having a limit on how many straits you can slot at one time is a big part of what keeps the players with fat wallets from just buying their way into being so ridiculously overpowered that those without fat wallets won't even want to play. Whales might own every single ship in the game, and have every trait that exists, but they can still only use 4 (or 5) allowing non whales to at least be close to being on the same level.

    Even without that aspect, even F2P players who have never spent one single zen on this game can still easily become so overpowered that anything short of Elite content is so easy it's almost a snooze fest. Why would anyone want to make that even worse ?

    Working flexibility into an illogical game structure seems a common theme. But you're missing the point. The limit is there, just increase it in response to the giant soup of starship traits now available, thats all. I dont recall there being less than 5 free to play starship traits.

    Four, like me, if you don't use the Fleet one. Which I don't. Been playing since 2012, never bought anything from a fleet other than outfits and the TR when it was a fleet purchase. As I stated above, other than the starter pack ship I picked up, from working the dilex, and some steam cards I won from contests, the only C-Store ships I own are the ones they've given away. I do still use Lobi/Lockbox and Event ships. But this is an intentional decision on my part.

    No,
    -C-Store Ships
    -Fleet Gear
    -Fleet Boff
    -Fleet Trait Expansions
    -Fleet Doff Expansion

    I work with the bare minimum you can get, and the game is to easy. So, why would an already super easy game, need this to make it even easier? I mean you can't fail. You don't even have to participate. All you have to do is show up and wait.

    Personally, I'd like to see a 14 day event, where we revisited the pre-fleet setup of 2012/13 This way I could sit back, drink a beer, and enjoy my intertube ride on the river of salt that would poor forth from the player base.

    And if you don't believe me on what I don't use there. I can snap some screenshots to prove it.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • redwren89redwren89 Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    > @trennan said:
    > redwren89 wrote: »
    >
    > arionisa wrote: »
    >
    > I vote no. A big part of playing STO, or just about any MMO type game is the diversity of your build. You get many, many options for gear, skills, traits (or whatever each game actually calls them) but you can only equip/select/use X number of them at a time. This game mechanic means you have literally hundreds, if not thousands of combinations available to make your character unique to you instead of nothing more than a clone of every other player in the game just with a different name.
    >
    > I will admit that only being able to use X number of traits makes no logical sense. You have been trained in a number of different things but for some reason you can't use that training without specifically deciding to use it ahead of time. That's kind of like someone who is say, an auto mechanic, carpenter, plumber and electrician. He leaves home, all set up to go do some plumbing work and on his way to the work site, his car breaks down. So, he stands there staring at his car like a monkey with rubiks cube, unable to get it running again because he can't remember how to fix a car due to thinking he was going to be doing plumbing work today.
    >
    > Gear limits actually make sense. It doesn't matter that you have enough gear to outfit a small army, and own more tools than the entire snap-on corporation, you can only carry/haul X amount of stuff at once so you have to pick and choose based on what you think you are going to need. Skills (traits) are learned knowledge and realistically will always be with you, anywhere, any time. But this is a game and cold already said it quite well.
    >
    > Having a limit on how many straits you can slot at one time is a big part of what keeps the players with fat wallets from just buying their way into being so ridiculously overpowered that those without fat wallets won't even want to play. Whales might own every single ship in the game, and have every trait that exists, but they can still only use 4 (or 5) allowing non whales to at least be close to being on the same level.
    >
    > Even without that aspect, even F2P players who have never spent one single zen on this game can still easily become so overpowered that anything short of Elite content is so easy it's almost a snooze fest. Why would anyone want to make that even worse ?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Working flexibility into an illogical game structure seems a common theme. But you're missing the point. The limit is there, just increase it in response to the giant soup of starship traits now available, thats all. I dont recall there being less than 5 free to play starship traits.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Four, like me, if you don't use the Fleet one. Which I don't. Been playing since 2012, never bought anything from a fleet other than outfits and the TR when it was a fleet purchase. As I stated above, other than the starter pack ship I picked up, from working the dilex, and some steam cards I won from contests, the only C-Store ships I own are the ones they've given away. I do still use Lobi/Lockbox and Event ships. But this is an intentional decision on my part.
    >
    > No,
    > -C-Store Ships
    > -Fleet Gear
    > -Fleet Boff
    > -Fleet Trait Expansions
    > -Fleet Doff Expansion
    >
    > I work with the bare minimum you can get, and the game is to easy. So, why would an already super easy game, need this to make it even easier? I mean you can't fail. You don't even have to participate. All you have to do is show up and wait.
    >
    > Personally, I'd like to see a 14 day event, where we revisited the pre-fleet setup of 2012/13 This way I could sit back, drink a beer, and enjoy my intertube ride on the river of salt that would poor forth from the player base.
    >
    > And if you don't believe me on what I don't use there. I can snap some screenshots to prove it.

    Hands up, I believe you.

    With such variety already making this game much fun to play, and with so much power at your finger tips no matter which ship you fly, you find something to cling to for comfort.

    I love the flagships and haven't set foot our of them. On my build, it's easy peasy too. But it could always be made more efficient, with a bit more variery, rather than just stacking up more and more of the same stats. Most starship traits are very unique which makes them great to use as a variety. But tell me what the point is in bringing more starship traits out if your favourite builds are already built and cannot be modified due to the uniqueness of the build. Increasing the number of starship traits slots would add variety more so than plain old power creep to your builds, enhsncing the fun element and increasing the likelihood people will purchase t6 ships for their L5 mastery trait, or grinding for them like you have.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    redwren89 wrote: »
    Hands up, I believe you.

    With such variety already making this game much fun to play, and with so much power at your finger tips no matter which ship you fly, you find something to cling to for comfort.

    I love the flagships and haven't set foot our of them. On my build, it's easy peasy too. But it could always be made more efficient, with a bit more variery, rather than just stacking up more and more of the same stats. Most starship traits are very unique which makes them great to use as a variety. But tell me what the point is in bringing more starship traits out if your favourite builds are already built and cannot be modified due to the uniqueness of the build. Increasing the number of starship traits slots would add variety more so than plain old power creep to your builds, enhsncing the fun element and increasing the likelihood people will purchase t6 ships for their L5 mastery trait, or grinding for them like you have.

    Yeah, I get why they would do it. As a means of pumping more money out of people. It's just that in it's current state, I don't see the need for it. I'm sure they've probably considered it. However, they can't seem to balance the game to present a challenge with what we currently have.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,742 Arc User
    redwren89 wrote: »
    As a filthy DPS'er that always wants more power..

    Even I am against this idea. It would just be too much power creep.

    Its not too much, just a logical progression

    You are vastly underestimating the power of starship traits.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    They don't need anymore stupid "balance passes," what they need is content that actually challenges players to do their best instead of shooting optional rubber ducks for 15 minutes and then winning automatically no matter what.
  • redwren89redwren89 Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    redwren89 wrote: »
    As a filthy DPS'er that always wants more power..

    Even I am against this idea. It would just be too much power creep.

    Its not too much, just a logical progression

    You are vastly underestimating the power of starship traits.

    What they can do is precisely what's in contention - there's more to be done!
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    They don't need anymore stupid "balance passes," what they need is content that actually challenges players to do their best instead of shooting optional rubber ducks for 15 minutes and then winning automatically no matter what.

    The trouble is, fail condition was tried...and it did not go well. In a normal game's player base, yeah you should do that. With this one...yeah not so much. As for the balance pass...by that I mean a REAL one that they don't immediately sell back all the power back on. Which is to say something that will NEVER happen with this dev team.
    A game gets the playerbase it serves. By making everything Easy Mode and nothing else, STO has attracted people who like Easy Mode. That is a Cryptic decision.

    And no, no balance passes. Players are meant to get more powerful over time. Going back on progress is never good.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    They don't need anymore stupid "balance passes," what they need is content that actually challenges players to do their best instead of shooting optional rubber ducks for 15 minutes and then winning automatically no matter what.

    The trouble is, fail condition was tried...and it did not go well. In a normal game's player base, yeah you should do that. With this one...yeah not so much. As for the balance pass...by that I mean a REAL one that they don't immediately sell back all the power back on. Which is to say something that will NEVER happen with this dev team.
    A game gets the playerbase it serves. By making everything Easy Mode and nothing else, STO has attracted people who like Easy Mode. That is a Cryptic decision.

    And no, no balance passes. Players are meant to get more powerful over time. Going back on progress is never good.

    Players are meant to get more powerful, in response to stronger enemies. We have the players getting more powerful. But we lack stronger enemies. What's the point of the players getting stronger, if there's nothing worth fighting?
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