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Any updates on the Combat Tardigrade?
psytce0002
Member Posts: 157 Arc User
I was wondering if there was any update on when we would be receiving the Combat Tardigrade from the Discovery Operations Pack? We were told we would be getting this a later time.
Can we please get an update on this ...
Thanks!
Can we please get an update on this ...
Thanks!
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Since it has been nearly two months since the uproar of the lack of account unlock options and the change to the BOffs and comment that they planned to make the tardigrade account unlock eventually I am betting they "forgot" and are hoping we did too.
Could you source that? Last time I heard it on the stream (more than a month ago), Kael basically acknowledged feedback and indicated (tactfully) that there weren't any plans to change the unlock (I think at some point he said that they'd look into it but most recently the answer to that discussion seems to have been "no.")
Don't get me wrong, I'd love an account unlocked combat Tardigrade but the ship seems to have sailed.
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They stated that they were looking into making the Combat Tardigrade that came with the Discovery Operations Pack as an Account Unlock but it wouldn't make it for release. So the query as to status was valid and not worthy of derision.
I would venture to guess that this sh*t-storm did indeed mean something, acheived something, and did affect something. The Bridge Officers were made 'Account' Unlocks, and a credit was given if the Starter Pack had already been purchased.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
That's from a long-gone giveaway. When you're trying to make an argument to a company it's a good starting place to look at their valuations. Don't juts assume that technically feasible + demand = patch note.
Starting off, there is no generally accessible account unlocked combat pet. Each I could name was either tied to a limited time event. The bulk of combat pets in STO are single unlocks. Cryptic currently values this (in the c-store) at 400 zen. Considering how long this has been the case and fact that the combat tardigrade was added to it, its reasonable to assume this is a stable economic price point.
Now, add account unlocks to those pets. You might assume (per demand) that this would just be a patch note (ie. a nice freebie with no strings attached) but put this in the context of Cryptic's business. More utility, greater value, greater price. Chances are an account unlocked combat tardigrade would be sold for more because of its greater utility and range of unlocks (a la Cardassian species option.) Its a premium which players have expressed interest (ie. projected value) in. That would be in Cryptic's direct interests, in line with reasonably stated economic principles, and in line with recent precedent (re. Cardassian's getting a cost bump up when more was included with their unlock. Ie. KDF and FED.) Also see the "added value" cost increase of T6 versus T5. That's not to say the freebie wouldn't be nice but this is what the "make it account unlocked" argument is up against (and must overcome to make the most compelling argument possible. Ie. have the best chance at effecting change. Ie. actually do something.)
So put this in the context of a bundle which folks have already been complaining costs too much. And note that cost increase is also important to not (visibly) stiff every single player who's bought multiple c-store combat pets under the old scheme. The price increase also moderates the backlash of "why the hell didn't you do this sooner, I bought five!" by negating some of the wasted Zen (while validating the position that the added service and added value generally adds onto the price per "business is business.") Ie. it productively moderates player perception of value (important for a game's economic health) on top of giving Cryptic more money. But, the question is that if you raise the price from 400 zen are you going to be entering a new stable economic price point? How far do you need to go to address all factors and is that something that'll ultimately work per marketing? 800 zen (for ex.), there may not be enough interest to make up from the narrowed market (per the price increase) and having both single and account unlocked options may not make for the friendliest storefront (versus impulse buying at 400 alone.) Secondly, does cryptic (per design) want to make account-unlocked combat pets generally accessible or do they want to preserve the current scheme as a major incentivization tool for future episodes, events, and giveaways.
There's a lot of consumer psychology to dig in here and the point is that if you haven't considered this in full (when talking to a business who definitely does evaluate these kinds of decisions per consumer psychology) then you're liable to run into a wall which rhetoric simply won't circumvent. Now of course you can continue demanding that the change be made (per technical precedent) but you're making that argument to a company which can fall back on a range of arguments pointed in the direction of "no." One can dismiss those out of hand (per an -immediate- sense for supporting an argument by pretending other folks have no valid position in debate, ie. what always torpedoes your own ethos if attempted) but that's not going to result in a convincing argument to those who ultimately make the decision, ie. the Cryptic higher ups. They can fall back on sales data since the bundle to test any claim made here about what is or isn't in the popular interest (and its wise to assume they've already done so to avoid setting yourself up for an already refuted argument.)
Some people might be unhappy, but if Cryptic's satisfied with the numbers (ie. direct data on population behavior, ie. community interest) then that's more or less the end of it.
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l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
"Looking into it" does not mean that a change is going to be made. See verb: looking, ie. examination. Last I heard the subject come up on Ten Forward, there aren't any plans to change the combat tardigrade unlock status (already mentioned in this thread.) The result of the re-examination seems to have been "well we know some folks aren't happy but factors are going to keep this scheme in place for the foreseeable future."
See. any or all of the above.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Simple question: why? Bundles have also included once per account consumable items. This would seem to fit that precedent. Furthermore, per what precedent should a discount bundle change the unlock scheme of one of the discounted items (also sold individually in the c-store)? If the Tardigrade was exclusive then you could make the Boff analogy but that's not actually the case (it's an item, like ship upgrade tokens). Furthermore, for what specific reason should the combat tardigrade be so changed (besides that it would be nicer)?
For reference:
Delta Operations pack - included once per account consumables
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/game-pack/detail/718-delta-rising-operations-pack
Temporal Agent pack - included once per account consumables
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/game-pack/detail/1315-temporal-special-agent-pack
Vanguard Pack - included once per account consumable
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/game-pack/detail/2331-gamma-vanguard-pack
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Because they didn't get to do it in time. Why should they do it? Horton summed it up best. 'I meant what I said, and I said what I meant..'
I guess Arty can join T'Ress the Maintenance Engineer Doff in the ashes of the broken.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
See. all of the above. TBH you're at a circular argument, they should do it because they should (baiting me into a direct argument against nice things when that's really beside the point.) The combat tardigrade is not a reclaimable item. It unlocks once for a character upon claiming. There is no precedent for changing the unlock mechanics of a bundled item with any one of the discount packs. They bundle items for a discount including items which can only be claimed once.
Folks made an assumption which wasn't born out. That's not a strong foundation for advocating change. You can either try to improve that argument (necessitating an examination of combat pet unlock mechanics, their economics, and other precedents in changing unlock schemes for certain C-store items without retroactive complications; note how specific I'm being here) or rest on a tautology. What I've done is simply shown what that argument is up against and how much of a hill it has to climb (ie. why despite requests the change was not made.) Where you take it from here is up to you.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I never said it was a 'nice thing to do' I said it was something they indicated they were looking into to do, but it wouldn't make it for the initial release of the Pack. OK, so now do it.
I have not been in a circular argument either, I have stated from the beginning that the Tardigrade should be availible to all Characters on the Account. I admit I used an overly broad term to begin with and have since toned it down.
Are the Boffs reclaimible if dismissed? I know I'm not going to test that out.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Here is the post:
So all I'm asking is for the progress on the account unlock. We were told just before the sale that we were getting an account unlock, if this changed after we bought the pack with this information that is WRONG. If this is not honored then I can no longer believe anything that we are told from Cryptic. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. It was written in the above thread that we should believe what we are told, if they go back on this you can never believe that again.
Please let me know when we will get what we were told we would get.
Thanks!
@ambassadorkael Are we still getting the account unlock for this combat pet?
Thanks in advance for your help....
And again, the phrase "we're looking into it" is not a statement that a patch note is coming at some point (ie. that they will do it) but that they're going to re-evaluate whether or not to make a change and/or how to make that happen. They may not do it, depending on the results of that re-examination (including will, feasibility, and complications.) Beyond every other consideration here, there's always the rational behind "we don't talk about upcoming content." Plans are always subject to change (offhand comments especially so.)
From the most recent comments I've heard on this subject on ten forward, this is where the matter stands. Someone asked (which I found noteworthy because at the time I thought folks had moved on), Kael gave a negative reply. They have no plans to change the tardigrade unlock at this time. I stated this quite early in this thread.
The key question is whether all individual c-store boffs are character-unlocked and are there any recent examples (included in the Discovery operations pack) of such precedents changing. I know the answer, just waiting for the realization that there is connected precedent for changing the tardigrade combat pet to account unlock (though it still depends on Cryptic's willingness to double back for this item and whether they want to treat combat pets in the same way as to these boffs. There may be an analogy to be had but if that conflicts with what role they want these items to serve per monetization and incentivization the answer could still well be no.)
If you're interested in advocating for the change, there's a much better way to go. Ie. a direct argument that relies on something firmer than "well you said that you were going to" or "we said you should" (both of which can be met with a simple negative.) At the very least, bringing that discussion forward could help inform future combat pet releases (if not the Tardigrade, then the next one.) If you were simply curious about where the matter stands: see the above and previous comments.
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Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I started posting to this Thread to counter some of the typical expected contrarian comments. I end up
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
But only for the disco pack
https://imgur.com/gallery/aWKlqVZ
so cool
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PS - I fully support a T6 Nova, fixing the Nova skins. I am also rooting for a T6 Science Cruiser, that can use Nova/Rhode Island skins.
T6 Nova/Rhode Island, T6 Oberth & T6 Constellation are needed. Also needed a T6 Science Cruiser, that can wear any Science or Cruiser skin.
The difference is that the Discovery boffs are account claimable as individual c-store items too, a first for the category. They also included customization unlocks (though at the expense of individual customization, the KDF is broken and FED only allows for one head type.) But anyway there's the precedent for adding utility without worrying much about cost adjustments. They did it there, likely without big upset, so in future they could also consider doing a similar change with combat pets (unify unlock schemes across personnel.) What Cryptic says on ten forward is always subject to change. Here's something that made it into the game which informs the argument.
The issue then is whether Cryptic wants to change up combat pets (in the way they did for recent boffs, they may still value the mechanics and incentivization. Precedent only gives support for an argument, it doesn't confirm it) and do that retroactively with combat tardigrades. Folks have been buying them with single-unlocks in mind so a change now could end up upsetting those who bought the Tardigrades (under the impression that they wouldn't be account unlocks) to please those who've been holding off because they weren't. That may ultimately torpedo any changes for this pet but they could consider changing the unlock scheme for future c-store pets (both combat and non-combat.)
I'm fine regardless but sorting through the arguments to find the most productive one I do have more of an interest in (particularly when it involves tardigrades.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!