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Discovery 2x12: Through the Valley of Shadows (spoilers)
thegrandnagus1
Member Posts: 5,166 Arc User
in Ten Forward
So, I think Pike is now Starfleet's greatest hero. Plenty of people have sacrficed their lives to save others, and that is obviously heroic. But knowing you would actually have to live on for years in the horrible condition he saw is an even greater sacrifice than the temporary pain that comes before a "typical" sacrificial death (Spock or Kirk). While I don't love everything about discovery, Pike is just incredible (IMO).
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Love the rework of the classic D7
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
At that time he was a fleet captain and those were cadets. So neither of those would be the standard uniform that regular officers of the time were wearing.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Yep, and the Enterprise bridge(from the promo for next week):
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
> marty123#3757 wrote: »
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> What was up with the uniforms I’m the future that Pike saw?
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> At that time he was a fleet captain and those were cadets. So neither of those would be the standard uniform that regular officers of the time were wearing.
Ah, that makes sense
> Still wondering if this leads to the 'fate' we saw for the USS Discovery in 'Calypso'.
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> Time crystal shenanigans ensue; 1000 years to Zora but only hours/days/weeks for the Crew?
How do time crystals work exactly, do they naturally allow you to manipulate time is is there something you need to do to it (i.e. some reaction or something) to make it able to manipulate time?
Forgot about the DSC Enterprise - where and when can I get the DSC D7, and would you accept two kidneys?
Paging @ambassadorkael#6946?
Now i'm starting to understand why Pike was at his end in TOS.
at least the discovery creators are mostly sticking canon with the D7, only major difference being the nacelles and pylons.
so odd that the enterprise in a decade from that point would be using crude tech barely worth being called tech with duotronics.
I wonder what happened to revert their tech like that on the enterprise?
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
> I wonder what happened to revert their tech like that on the enterprise?
To prevent evil AI from doing bad stuff?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
no, because there was still intership systems running, even with slower duotronics and the enterprise had a computer as well.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
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time crystals that are harvested seal his fate, he could of just as easily said no and his fate would of been different to the one he saw within.
These Klingons clearly understand time, the concept and possibly have contact with temporal agents as well. Who knows how far it goes. I think a time lord does sound a bit silly, but then again Klingons not showing the same murderous bloodlust around humans is just as silly.
Control wants to wipe everything out. it is more like the T-X model than the T-1000 which is sigificantly less advanced and the T-X can inject into mechanical and technological devices, including the T-800 and shut it down.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Yeah, but obviously if he knew the accident was going to occur (even seeing the SPECIFIC people in the room at the time) he could prevent that specific situation from happening. The fact that he apparently could not prevent it, even knowing about it ahead of time, suggests something was literally "sealed" or locked in place and nothing he could do would ever change it.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Neither of us know what he got a good view of, so we'll set that point aside since it cannot proven either way.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Disco D7 is confirmed:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1248040/lots-of-info-from-todays-livestream-3-27/p1
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
My character Tsin'xing
If he saw a bunch of cadets in his vision, then he could easily avoid this future by not dealing with cadets. However, being afraid of a future will cause Pike to no longer be Captain Pike, but a shell of his former self.
Because unlike Control that keeps getting more and more over-the-top and ridiculous OP powers that makes it less and less believable and scary (yay, techno-lovecraftian-styled superpowers and assuming direct control to an entire fleet, to add to superhuman speed, invulnerability, strength and healing factor), Pike's fate taps into your fears of scary and believable conditions (being paralyzed, unable to speak, horribly disfigured, forced to live on life-support for the rest of your life) as well as probably triggering memories of the TOS episode which may have been disturbing at its time for younger viewers.
My character Tsin'xing
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
You know this is strictly subjective. But why does somebody always relent to whataboutism any time someone criticizes DSC?
To me personally "time crystals" are way, way more silly than any of the mentioned, however, that doesn't mean everything prior was gold. But that isn't what I mean when I find the idea of "crystals" that not only tell you the time but influence the "flow" of time itself AND "seal your fate" when you take them from Boreth, which is now the home of Klingon timelords, way more silly than an advanced, forgotten time portal on a deserted planet.
No, this was really well done and reasonably scary. For the first time I felt DSC touched upon a real, relatable fear (in contrast to jumping around magic mushrooms and the time crystals themselves) and it was a great character moment for Pike. I will say again, in my opinion we didn't need that "bridge" between the pilot and TOS, nor did I ever question what Pike and Spock did in the meantime, however the portrayal of the Enterprise crew is solid, at least not terrible, and I would have watched THAT show over Discovery if this was a possibility.
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Well, but if the accident happens without him, someone else will die trying to save the cadets. Or the cadets will die.
See it like this. His fate isn't magically and deterministically fixed - but every time he is making a decision, he will be guided by his decision here. If he is willing to sacrifice himself for those cadets, if he's willing to sacrifice himself for the future of all sentient life, then every point he has a decision to make in the future will lead him to his fate. Not because the rules of time crystal say so, or because the universe is deterministic - but because that is who he is.
Another analogy perhaps: A kid is crossing the street in front of you, while you're driving down the road. You have the choice to accelerate and hit it with deadly force, not do anything and probably severely injure it, or break. Which of these decisions are you going to make? With your free will, you could pick any one of them - but by what you know about yourself, and by what kind of person you want to be - you probably will know what kind of decision you make. So, does that actually mean you don't have free will, that it was per-ordained and you could never decide something else?
Also, maybe some events don't seem to be able to change without causing catastrophic timeline incidents, similar to the temporal nexuses in Dr Who.
Also, based on what is said in the Kelvin Timeline movies, novels and comics, it seems time in Star Trek is kinda, sorta semi-sentient, allowing it to attempt to fix severe temporal mistakes, like how despite everything the Narada caused, the Enterprise still ended up existing and having the same main crew, Kirk became its captain despite having a vastly different childhood, etc.
So maybe Pike's fate is something that is bound to happen no matter what.
There is no evidence that time is semi-sentient, but there are omnipotent being in Star Trek that could fix severe temporal mistakes. It seems like the main goal of every organization that controls time is to ensure their own existence and the same could be said for these omnipotent beings.
As far as Kirk being the captain of the Enterprise and having the same crew in Star Trek 2009 just proves that the Star Trek universe is a deterministic universe where free will doesn't exist.