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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Most recent episode of Death of a Game featured STO ...

evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
in Star Trek Online General Discussion
For those that don't know, a YouTuber who goes by nerdSlayer has a series called Death of a Game where he discusses a game that has died and goes over the things that made the game good, the bad things about the game, and why it ultimately failed. Normally I agree with his assessments, but the most recent episode features Star Trek Online and, imho, completely misses the mark. He makes some good points, but most of his criticisms only applied to the early years of the game, and he also relies heavily on Steam charts to determine player numbers which is, imho, a very VERY flawed way of evaluating a game that also has both its own independent launcher as well as Arc. I'm curious, what is everyone else's opinion?

https://youtu.be/ai3ZGU4hXU8

To my knowledge he has only ever featured one other game that was still actively in development, which is SWTOR which he did a video on back in December of 2017. At the time things looked far, far worse for SWTOR than they currently do for STO, and now a little over a year later that game is still going and still receiving new content. Imho nerdSlayer should stick to games that are actually dead or, at the very least, in maintenance mode.
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Most recent episode of Death of a Game featured STO ... 68 votes

Agree with the video
2%
drakethewhitetheanothername 2 votes
Disagree with the video
50%
eagle420duncanidaho11garaks31mattjohnsonvagaevsmanjonsillslordsteve1azrael605rattler2divvydendbaronvonboommarkhawkmansekishinfistevilmark444ioneondixoniumpenguin44ca1errabnrobbiectyler002 34 votes
Don't care
47%
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Comments

  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    Disagree with the video
    Also I think he recorded this before the news regarding the Foundry being shut down because he doesn't say anything about that, but he doesn't mention the Foundry at all anyway so idk how that would have impacted his assessment.
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  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    Agree with the video
    He said nothing there that I didn't already know, and nothing that I can honestly say was wrong. It's basically the same viewpoint of the game I've had for years.

    For myself, I play solely for the Connie skin so I can fly around and admire it, and because there are no other MMOs I'm interested in currently. Not for the game mechanics, the story, or anything else- those are in truth rather bland. At least it doesn't cost me anything for what I do get out it.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    Don't care
    Didn't watch it.. probably won't.

    I don't care what some random Youtuber thinks of a game he's obviously never even played.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    Don't care
    Watched the video. Meh.
    Shallow review, anyways.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    Don't care
    evilmark444 wrote: »
    For those that don't know, a YouTuber who goes by nerdSlayer has a series called Death of a Game where he discusses a game that has died and goes over the things that made the game good, the bad things about the game, and why it ultimately failed. Normally I agree with his assessments, but the most recent episode features Star Trek Online and, imho, completely misses the mark. He makes some good points, but most of his criticisms only applied to the early years of the game, and he also relies heavily on Steam charts to determine player numbers which is, imho, a very VERY flawed way of evaluating a game that also has both its own independent launcher as well as Arc. I'm curious, what is everyone else's opinion?

    https://youtu.be/ai3ZGU4hXU8

    To my knowledge he has only ever featured one other game that was still actively in development, which is SWTOR which he did a video on back in December of 2017. At the time things looked far, far worse for SWTOR than they currently do for STO, and now a little over a year later that game is still going and still receiving new content. Imho nerdSlayer should stick to games that are actually dead or, at the very least, in maintenance mode.

    Gee - talking guy on the internet has an opinion...and you KNOW what they say opinions are like because EVERYONE has one... ;)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    Disagree with the video
    crypticarmsman wrote: »
    Gee - talking guy on the internet has an opinion...and you KNOW what they say opinions are like because EVERYONE has one... ;)

    He HAS done some very good breakdowns on these things in the past, such as the DoaG video regarding Star Wars Galaxies. This one in particular though just bewilders me, when I saw the title in my YouTube recommendations I just couldn't believe it because the game is far from dead.
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  • theanothernametheanothername Member Posts: 1,511 Arc User
    Agree with the video
    Overall I agree. He only scratches the surface and and sometimes feels like leaning too much on the early days (but then again just because old issues have become so common that nobody is talking about them anymore does not change the fact that they are still issues being around). He does makes it clear from the start though that STO is not dead; it just happens to be the name of his series of dead/stagnating games.

    I do agree with his assessment that it slugs along being contented with not growing and not changing things.
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,657 Arc User
    Don't care
    seaofsorrows wrote: »
    Didn't watch it.. probably won't.

    I don't care what some random Youtuber thinks of a game he's obviously never even played.

    Yep, I have no reason to care about his opinion.

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  • foxman00foxman00 Member Posts: 1,506 Arc User
    Disagree with the video
    Yeah, the second the dude said at roughly 21:50 - 22:15 about the games pay to win aspects, straight away told me he doesn't have a clue what he is taking about, along with other mis-information and outright lies. When you research, how you could think STO has pay to win aspects tells me straight away he didn't do enough research, or couldn't be bothered.

    Question, does anyone know if this guy reached out to the community in anyway, to get our thoughts or opinions in any way?
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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,461 Arc User
    Disagree with the video
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    evilmark444 wrote: »
    He makes some good points, but most of his criticisms only applied to the early years of the game, and he also relies heavily on Steam charts to determine player numbers which is, imho, a very VERY flawed way of evaluating a game that also has both its own independent launcher as well as Arc. I'm curious, what is everyone else's opinion?
    Actually, by combining the Steam charts, the recent PS4 playercount leak, and the infographics given to us, it could be possible to translate the Steam Charts into a fairly precise estimate of the entire game.

    Consider:

    1. PS4, not long ago, leaked the exact player counts of every game.
    2. The devs have officially given us the percentage breakdowns of players by platform. Therefore, if we can put a real number to the PS4 STO statistics, we can use math to put a real number to every other platform.
    3. Now that we know how many PC players there are, we can compare them to the Steam numbers to determine what percentage of PC players are Steam users.
    4. Now knowing what percentage of PC users are Steam-based, we can translate any Steam STO numbers into wider PC-STO numbers.

    Why are people still using Steam to play this??? There is zero benefit.

    And Steam's STO numbers are insignificant compared to ACTUAL numbers as per the FCT.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • foxman00foxman00 Member Posts: 1,506 Arc User
    Disagree with the video
    leemwatson wrote: »
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    evilmark444 wrote: »
    He makes some good points, but most of his criticisms only applied to the early years of the game, and he also relies heavily on Steam charts to determine player numbers which is, imho, a very VERY flawed way of evaluating a game that also has both its own independent launcher as well as Arc. I'm curious, what is everyone else's opinion?
    Actually, by combining the Steam charts, the recent PS4 playercount leak, and the infographics given to us, it could be possible to translate the Steam Charts into a fairly precise estimate of the entire game.

    Consider:

    1. PS4, not long ago, leaked the exact player counts of every game.
    2. The devs have officially given us the percentage breakdowns of players by platform. Therefore, if we can put a real number to the PS4 STO statistics, we can use math to put a real number to every other platform.
    3. Now that we know how many PC players there are, we can compare them to the Steam numbers to determine what percentage of PC players are Steam users.
    4. Now knowing what percentage of PC users are Steam-based, we can translate any Steam STO numbers into wider PC-STO numbers.

    Why are people still using Steam to play this??? There is zero benefit.

    And Steam's STO numbers are insignificant compared to ACTUAL numbers as per the FCT.

    Even looking at the steam charts for the entire length of time, there is a slight downgrade overall. However, most MMOs are like this. Further to that, at certain times new mediums appeared to play the game through (Arc, consoles etc). Without those stats from official sources (not leaked) trying to analyse the information is shotty at best.

    Funny enough, many people claim that DR almost destroyed the game, and many people left in droves. Looking at the steam charts, while many people didn't log in after a couple of months, you see the same type of drop (average player wise) after Legacy of Romulus. Again, i am only using steam charts, as I am unaware when Arc launched, and then became i think at one stage required for new accounts/players?

    Interesting huh :)
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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,461 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Disagree with the video
    foxman00 wrote: »
    leemwatson wrote: »
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    evilmark444 wrote: »
    He makes some good points, but most of his criticisms only applied to the early years of the game, and he also relies heavily on Steam charts to determine player numbers which is, imho, a very VERY flawed way of evaluating a game that also has both its own independent launcher as well as Arc. I'm curious, what is everyone else's opinion?
    Actually, by combining the Steam charts, the recent PS4 playercount leak, and the infographics given to us, it could be possible to translate the Steam Charts into a fairly precise estimate of the entire game.

    Consider:

    1. PS4, not long ago, leaked the exact player counts of every game.
    2. The devs have officially given us the percentage breakdowns of players by platform. Therefore, if we can put a real number to the PS4 STO statistics, we can use math to put a real number to every other platform.
    3. Now that we know how many PC players there are, we can compare them to the Steam numbers to determine what percentage of PC players are Steam users.
    4. Now knowing what percentage of PC users are Steam-based, we can translate any Steam STO numbers into wider PC-STO numbers.

    Why are people still using Steam to play this??? There is zero benefit.

    And Steam's STO numbers are insignificant compared to ACTUAL numbers as per the FCT.

    Even looking at the steam charts for the entire length of time, there is a slight downgrade overall. However, most MMOs are like this. Further to that, at certain times new mediums appeared to play the game through (Arc, consoles etc). Without those stats from official sources (not leaked) trying to analyse the information is shotty at best.

    Funny enough, many people claim that DR almost destroyed the game, and many people left in droves. Looking at the steam charts, while many people didn't log in after a couple of months, you see the same type of drop (average player wise) after Legacy of Romulus. Again, i am only using steam charts, as I am unaware when Arc launched, and then became i think at one stage required for new accounts/players?

    Interesting huh :)

    Most people I know don't even use Arc to launch the game, although I'm sure most new PC players do. I have always used the Cryptic Launcher. Only Cryptic knows the real numbers and inferring from Steam just doesn't cut the mustard.

    The only thing from that video to actually take note from was the 'lack of exploration' comments and the 'development' history of the game. He doesn't even go into post-2013 era of the game either, which leads me to believe it's a rehashed poorly researched old video.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • littlesarbonnlittlesarbonn Member Posts: 486 Arc User
    I watched it out of curiosity last night (it came in under my Youtube feed cause most STO feeds come to me from there), and while he had some valid points, he seemed kind of doom and gloom about a game that I got the distinct impression he hasn't played in years, quite possibly around the time that Agents of Yesterday came out.

    His one solid point that I completely agreed with is that STO NEEDS (with a freaking passion) exploratory missions to bring back that sense of being what Star Trek is all about. He sort of dismisses all of STO by stating that he hopes ANOTHER game comes along that captures that Star Trek feel, basically giving up on STO completely, even if the devs were smart enough to realize they need to incorporate this into the mix.

    Which is really sad about the Foundry because the latest Foundry spotlight they just put up a day before announcing the retirement of the Foundry was all about exploration, almost as if they realized what was needed, spotlighted it, and then turned off the lights instead of moving in that direction.
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Don't care
    I honestly don't give a toss if this person wants to make a tool of themselves. Their opinion is the same as any other and it doesn't need to be advertised by someone else, and come to think of it, why is this tosh being advertised anyway?
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • mspfuelermspfueler Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Don't care
    LTS that still has the original game disc. There's been gloom & doomers since the beginning. "Doom! DOOM! The game is doomed!" Play the game. Enjoy what's fun for you. Everything else is just background noise.
    Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam!

  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    Disagree with the video
    He has some valid points about a few things but I got the distinct impression he’s not played the game for years and is basing his assessment on what he’s read elsewhere or what he recalls from the initial release.
    I mean the game has issues, but it is vastly different from that thing that crawled onto our PC’s back in 2010!
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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,166 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    I actually DO agree with a lot of what he said. But I DON'T think the game is dying. Games that are dying do not get as much active development as STO is getting. Games that are dying start to see less and less content and eventually get into maintenance mode for the last few years of their life. Until we hit maintenance mode there is no basis to claim STO is dying. So I both agree and disagree at the same time.
    Post edited by thegrandnagus1 on
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    Don't care
    seaofsorrows wrote: »
    Didn't watch it.. probably won't.

    I don't care what some random Youtuber thinks of a game he's obviously never even played.
    ^this x2
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,166 Arc User
    I will also add that while I *don't* agree the game is dying (see my last post), calling someone a "random youtuber" does not invalidate their point. Youtube is one of the biggest website on the internet, and the person who made this video is a known commentator with a following. We may not like/agree with some of the things he said, but calling him a "random youtuber" isn't a counter-argument. Again, see my last post for why *I* dont' believe the game is dying.
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Disagree with the video
    Cheap shot and cheap points. The commentary on monetization practices doesn't take into account that the lock box format was released in 2012 and somehow the game's managed to keep going in spite of its "death" then (working under all the factors listed.) That's pretty damn basic for the conclusion. Just sloppy reporting, but then again this is a merchandized youtube gaming commentary channel. It needs something to fill the weeks and affirm its audience (see. dog whistling per microtransactions.)
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Don't care
    > @crypticarmsman said:
    > Gee - talking guy on the internet has an opinion...and you KNOW what they say opinions are like because EVERYONE has one... ;)

    Tell that to a person with a colostomy bag. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
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    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    Don't care
    thegrandnagus1 wrote: »
    I will also add that while I *don't* agree the game is dying (see my last post), calling someone a "random youtuber" does not invalidate their point. Youtube is one of the biggest website on the internet, and the person who made this video is a known commentator with a following. We may not like/agree with some of the things he said, but calling him a "random youtuber" isn't a counter-argument. Again, see my last post for why *I* dont' believe the game is dying.
    Well, since a simple "don't care" doesn't seem to have been thourough enough...

    I didn't watch the video. The previous comments in this thread would have said all I need to know about the quality of the content therein, if the topic of the video didn't already do that. The whole DOOM nonsense stopped being funny years ago, I have no interest in rehashing all the old arguments.

    And being a known (by whom?) commentator with a following doesn't make me care any more, either.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,166 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Point 1: people don't actually post about things they dont care about. If someone clicks reply, they care to some degree. But you cant have your cake and eat it too.

    Point 2: uninformed opinions are basically worthless. The guy who made this video sounds like he doesnt actually play, which would make his uninformed opinion worthless. At the same time we also have some people in this thread discussing the merrits of a video they havent watched, which makes their opinions equally uninformed.
    Post edited by thegrandnagus1 on
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  • bubblegirl2015bubblegirl2015 Member Posts: 831 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Disagree with the video
    I watched it all and overall it is just a biased history of the MMO. It only explains it with one viewpoint "exploration". It's highly biased and I do not agree with the author at all.

    There are some great things about the MMO never explained in here. The countless numbers of freebies given to players, the nostalgic summer/winter events and anniversaries gone by. The great influx of players it brought when the game went F2P or the great design of LoR and ViL when it launched. There are some good and yes some negatives to the story that you won' t find there.

    IMO STO has been given a great lifeline with the added Platforms and now with Discovery. It has many more years left in her and not even close to ending it. The video is a trashy portrayal of this MMO from an angry author who does the same to other MMOs.​​
    Wiki editor http://sto.gamepedia.com
    Original STO beta tester.
  • theanothernametheanothername Member Posts: 1,511 Arc User
    Agree with the video
    Everyone that might want to correct him:
    Hello and welcome fellow trekkers and supporters alike. I hope you enjoyed this episode, we made sure to get extra Trekkie for it while also attempting to tell a compelling story about what Star Trek is about and how it was realized in STO doesn't match up with that. And how the title although constant in it's concurrent playerbase, still relegated to a fringe MMORPG.

    As I will be doing in the future from now on, on my next podcast (3/11/19 at 12PM EST +6 GMT) I will do a "post DOAG analysis" where I talk about the video, points I wish I made, and even dive into common criticism I receive in the comments. If you also are passionate enough to voice your concerns to me on Discord, we can have a voice chat about your criticism on the podcast. Open floor to any and to all. Thanks for the support everyone.

    https://discordapp.com/invite/xrSvSbB

    First pinned post on that YT clip. I watched quite a lot of his DOAG clips; he usually is quite analytical and prepares. Its not one whom throws stuff around just for attention. I'd say (well as kind of he himself in the clip) STO is probably the least dead game ever he covered.
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