As a relatively new player it is a bit disheartening (and hugely frustrating) that so much past content is unavailable. The Phoenix and Lobi stores sound good until you realize that the odds of getting a UR or Epic token is garbage and you need to open something like 180 lock boxes to get a lobi ship. There are far too many partial mission sets resulting from a time in the past where the last component was only available from an event (which in itself is not even communicated in-game).
As others have mentioned there are many games that allow access to past events periodically with some method of getting historical rewards from said event. I'd happily put in the time or drop some cash for the opportunity, but the current model leaves a lot to be desired.
Funny how some players can spin the old ship removal as some kind of reward for having played the game the previous year(s), when the truth is the exact opposite.
Removing the old event ships was part of Cryptic's panic button overreaction to the Big Event Mistake of 2014. They had given the ships an account unlocked discount but unwisely left the token drops per-character, which had allowed some players to collect years or even decades worth of ship tokens by grinding with multiple toons but only spending on one of them. Obviously that couldn't stand.
The changes in 2015 were made specifically to STOP players from benefitting from having played the event last year, to instead reward the players who play this year. They were in fact originally going to make the ships completely unavailable for everyone after the event was over. The permanent unlocks were put in as a compromise to appease massive complaints after the initial announcement.
Later, with more careful planning, new event formats (like the weekend voucher events) have been created that use account-wide token drops, which prevent players from hoarding tokens in a more intelligent manner and support old rewards remaining available. I do hope they'll update old content to use similar rules at some point, and can then restore the old ship projects for everyone's benefit.
The bigger issue is that newer players may have Admiralty "unlocked" to them, but can they really use it?
And what hoops do they have to jump through to gain access to this very useful resource?
I already know I am going to take heat for this.. but I am fine with this "problem."
Those of us that have been here for years got the ships when they were offered. New players, that weren't here, have to resort to Phoenix and jump through all the hoops.
Is that really so bad? Is it so horrible that players that have been here for the long haul have more then a player that joined yesterday?
It's a matter of debate, I get that.. but I don't consider it a problem. I would not want to see new players locked out of things that are critical for game progression, that would not be fair.. but promo ships from events? I have all of them because I have been here, stuck around, and done the events.
I'm perfectly fine with new players not being able to freely unlock them. They will eventually build their admiralty deck using event ships going forward. This one going on now, and the Anniversary Event will be less then 2 months later.. this game gives out ships all the time. Newbies will be just fine.
Being here from the start as a reason to say its fine to lock the items off from new players cause they were not here at that time is worthless. New players as well as old players should have a equal chance at getting special event items past present or future. Saying i was here so i get them and they were not here so shaft the new players with worthless odds at getting any of the items is just saying look at me you new players im special i have these items. Get over your self it is a problem and keeping the game alive and running is more needed than players hording there precious.
Well, I'll put your childish tone aside since I expected that at least one person would get all huffy.
How exactly are you 'getting the shaft' by not having access to older event ships? Is there something in this game that you absolutely need a T5 Breen Chel Grett to accomplish? Is there some hidden mode of game play that I am unaware of that is somehow blocked off to you if you don't have an Event ship from 4 years ago? Please, explain your victim mentality to me, I would love to hear it.
It's not uncommon for games of this type to reward players for playing the game. If you weren't here for it, you don't get punished, but you don't have access to those rewards either. Now if they had something in the game that new players could not do or could not access because they couldn't get older items.. then I would agree with you. I also strongly disagree with the idea of having pieces of ship sets tied to events for this exact reason. There should be no punishment at all for not having old event items, but that doesn't mean that players that did the events cannot be rewarded.
The only thing you really need these ships for is maybe admiralty, but the game is still giving away ships that you can use. They're giving one away right now, and come February you'll get another one for the Anniversary Event. There is nothing in this game that you need old Event ships to accomplish, most of them are pretty worthless anyway. The only person here who's mindset needs adjustment is yours. You're not a victim and you're not entitled to stuff just because you say you should be.
You don't understand i HAVE been here from the start i have had the items and make use of them some i have missed so no i don't have them all. I have items on my toons that new players can't get and why not needed to do the games content are of great use. What i am saying is that locking the content from players old or new is just wrong and being entitled just do to being here then is also wrong. Deployment in the military, Power outages, real life unavoidable instances have caused many other to simply be left out. And having only one recourse of getting screwed over by a RNG is only one more reason new players will look at what they are missing and decide to leave, and that only hurts everyone. Entitled to exclusivity of a reward is a limited view.
Some thing is needed to correct this why i don't have the answer to the problem it is none the less a problem.
The problem is that lots of very powerful items, including DOMINO and Cold Hearted - both part of current meta, are directly tied to the ships we've received from past events. Sure, when you were around those days, it's very nice, because then they are essentially free for you, however players who joined later will notice they are lacking some important stuff. And of course you can say that "you can beat every content in game without those items" which is of course correct, but nevertheless, those items are at least currently best in slot and when someone wants to be competitive in, for example, DPS race, they will have a hard time doing so without those.
And true, Phoenix Box exists, which is an extremely welcome addition to the game, however imo it needs a "convert-up" method too. Say, the possibility to use 50 tokens of lower rarity to convert them to one rarity rank higher. So you wouldn't need to spend millions of dil trying to obtain your event ship and still get potentially s---ed over by RNG.
Good points indeed, but personally.. I would prefer simply making the items more accessible through the Phoenix Boxes.
The real issue here is the odds on getting a needed ship via the Phoenix Boxes. The odds are so insanely low that the option might as well not even exist. There are certain items like the ones that you mentioned that are very useful and I thought that offering them on a per character basis through Phoenix Boxes was a nice compromise. The problem is, they made the odds so abysmal that the solution isn't much of a solution at all.
I know personally, I have opened hundreds and hundreds of these boxes (I open them for upgrade kits) and I have received a total of 1 Ultra Rare and never a single Epic. I have opened at least 600 boxes.. those odds just aren't good enough. If they don't up the odds then I would love to see them add event ship consoles like Dominio, Protomatter, etc to the Very Rare category so that they were attainable by those who need them.
Absolutely. That's why i suggested the "convert-up" method, so you wouldn't have to purely rely on your sacrifices to RNGods to obtain those ships.
I would definitely support the "convert-up" method. I was never fond of past event projects being removed, personally. Converting up might take a bit more for the individual, but it doesn't leave one completely at the mercy of RNG.
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I like the "convert up" idea. Personally, I never realized why this wasn't an option. This way even if the number is large it still gives you a "goal" to hit where you KNOW you will get the ship you want. Even if a player needs to do it over multiple phoenix box events (due to lack of funds, etc...). You would know that after you get 50 very rare tokens (or whatever the requirement) you can upgrade it to an ultra rare token and get the ship. I think that would be fair.
Honestly, though, I still do not understand why they took away the ability to slot older event ships during the current event each year. Exclusivity is a ridiculous reason to withhold previous FREE ships. As long as people are having to pay large amounts of money or spend the same amount of time grinding it that I did I couldn't care less if a player who just started playing has access to the Breen Chel Grett or Risian Corvette. As long as they have to at least run all of those stupid races, fly through all of those stupid courses, or pay a ridiculous amount for a free ship, then more power to them. Just because I ran those events several years ago doesn't make me any more worthy than someone who maybe hadn't even heard of STO back then and just logged in yesterday.
Just put them back on the event tab to be slotted for the current year vouchers. You still wouldn't be able to save vouchers for the newest ship to get on day one, but you would be able to get older event ships... AND you get the added benefit of more people logging alts in and more toons running the event.
More play metrics, happier player-base. WIN WIN.
I guess that is, except for those whose self worth is dependent upon how much more digital content they own over someone else... But, IMO TRIBBLE'em. Are they REALLY going to leave the game because someone was allowed to do the same thing they did to receive a ship just years later?
I like the "convert up" idea. Personally, I never realized why this wasn't an option. This way even if the number is large it still gives you a "goal" to hit where you KNOW you will get the ship you want. Even if a player needs to do it over multiple phoenix box events (due to lack of funds, etc...). You would know that after you get 50 very rare tokens (or whatever the requirement) you can upgrade it to an ultra rare token and get the ship. I think that would be fair.
Honestly, though, I still do not understand why they took away the ability to slot older event ships during the current event each year. Exclusivity is a ridiculous reason to withhold previous FREE ships. As long as people are having to pay large amounts of money or spend the same amount of time grinding it that I did I couldn't care less if a player who just started playing has access to the Breen Chel Grett or Risian Corvette. As long as they have to at least run all of those stupid races, fly through all of those stupid courses, or pay a ridiculous amount for a free ship, then more power to them. Just because I ran those events several years ago doesn't make me any more worthy than someone who maybe hadn't even heard of STO back then and just logged in yesterday.
Just put them back on the event tab to be slotted for the current year vouchers. You still wouldn't be able to save vouchers for the newest ship to get on day one, but you would be able to get older event ships... AND you get the added benefit of more people logging alts in and more toons running the event.
More play metrics, happier player-base. WIN WIN.
I guess that is, except for those whose self worth is dependent upon how much more digital content they own over someone else... But, IMO TRIBBLE'em. Are they REALLY going to leave the game because someone was allowed to do the same thing they did to receive a ship just years later?
It would appear this thread can be summed up as 3 views.
Some think a guaranteed goal driven means of access to past ships.
Some are in favor of placing the past event ships back to be earned the same way as everyone else.
Some feel some form of entitlement and rationalization that they were there and leave it as is.
Personally I am in favor of goal driven or earning past ships in current events.
I would also be in favor of placing them in the c store at a price relative to the ships level.
Regardless make the ships or items as the event may be available in a reasonable fashion not left to some RNG. Also note this is event items we are talking about. Not lockbox or lobi items .
In any case this will be my last post in this thread.
New players as well as old players should have a equal chance at getting special event items past present or future.
I support new players getting a second chance at acquiring older event ships but I can't let people keep making this false statement over and over again. Everyone everywhere had the same chance to get any event ship when it was first released. Just because they weren't playing the game at that time by their own choice, that doesn't mean that they didn't have a chance to get a limited time event ship. People really need to stop spreading this false idea that "they didn't have a chance to get X ship" when they most certain did.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
The problem is that lots of very powerful items, including DOMINO and Cold Hearted - both part of current meta, are directly tied to the ships we've received from past events. Sure, when you were around those days, it's very nice, because then they are essentially free for you, however players who joined later will notice they are lacking some important stuff. And of course you can say that "you can beat every content in game without those items" which is of course correct, but nevertheless, those items are at least currently best in slot and when someone wants to be competitive in, for example, DPS race, they will have a hard time doing so without those.
And true, Phoenix Box exists, which is an extremely welcome addition to the game, however imo it needs a "convert-up" method too. Say, the possibility to use 50 tokens of lower rarity to convert them to one rarity rank higher. So you wouldn't need to spend millions of dil trying to obtain your event ship and still get potentially s---ed over by RNG.
Good points indeed, but personally.. I would prefer simply making the items more accessible through the Phoenix Boxes.
The real issue here is the odds on getting a needed ship via the Phoenix Boxes. The odds are so insanely low that the option might as well not even exist. There are certain items like the ones that you mentioned that are very useful and I thought that offering them on a per character basis through Phoenix Boxes was a nice compromise. The problem is, they made the odds so abysmal that the solution isn't much of a solution at all.
I know personally, I have opened hundreds and hundreds of these boxes (I open them for upgrade kits) and I have received a total of 1 Ultra Rare and never a single Epic. I have opened at least 600 boxes.. those odds just aren't good enough. If they don't up the odds then I would love to see them add event ship consoles like Dominio, Protomatter, etc to the Very Rare category so that they were attainable by those who need them.
Absolutely. That's why i suggested the "convert-up" method, so you wouldn't have to purely rely on your sacrifices to RNGods to obtain those ships.
Another good idea would be to allow players to slot old event ship projects but only allow old projects to be filled with lobi. 900 per ship.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Some feel some form of entitlement and rationalization that they were there and leave it as is.
Again, way to let your victim complex prevent you from understanding an opposing view point.
No one in this thread opposes the idea of allowing people to acquire previous items. We're having a civil conversation about the best and most fair methods while you crying and playing victim.
The only person in this entire thread expressing a sense of entitlement, is you.
Some feel some form of entitlement and rationalization that they were there and leave it as is.
Again, way to let your victim complex prevent you from understanding an opposing view point.
No one in this thread opposes the idea of allowing people to acquire previous items. We're having a civil conversation about the best and most fair methods while you crying and playing victim.
The only person in this entire thread expressing a sense of entitlement, is you.
It appears as if a nerve was struck for you regarding a comment that was a statement based on the 3 general conclusions in this thread. I did not call you out as being entitled. Neither did I quote anyone else in this thread however you feel the need to defend yourself over the statement. Do you not express entitlement as you were here as your rationalization regarding others having past ships and items? Have the people in this thread not expressed that the current state of acquiring the ships and items is fine the way it is? In fact some have even expressed the wanting of the expense of opening a free past ship to be in excess of $200 per ship. Simple math of a guaranteed 4 lobi per key and rounding keys to $1 per key is the way I came to that figure before anyone else cares to call that a false sum.
As to expressing entitlement and being a victim how am I a victim? At the end of the day the fact is I still have my unlocks. I still have my ships. I still have my orb of possibility’s and ophidian cane As well as others legacy unlocks for my account. If I fail to have some meta ship or item for not being able to or simply deciding not to run some activity that becomes nauseating year after year then so be it. At the end of the day it matters nothing one way or the other.
As to “We're having a civil conversation about the best and most fair methods” At what point have I not been civil? As for fair methods fair is subjective at best. My posts have been for the inclusion of new players and not a response from old players attempting to justify there position simply do to fact they were there.
Not by you or your posts but has also been stated that people had the chance to get x ship and being tired of a false statement that any one saying they did not have a chance is wrong.
Some people may be able to be available for every event and get every items and ship that comes. But I have seen people not be able to do so as I stated in a previous post either do to military service, Power outages, or other real life problems some people have not had a chance to get the items.
Storms tend to knock out power. Lines down tend to disrupt communications networks. For that matter sun flares can even effect networks.
Real life happens this is a game simple digital content for entertainment and leisure activity. One could make the case that the people tending to real life obligations instead of a digital worlds demands have there priority’s sorted correctly. But I am sure that nothing like that has happened before making the statement false.
In any case a change made to the acquisition of older event ships or items may or may not come about as a consequence of this thread. In the end it is out of the players hands.
Not by you or your posts but has also been stated that people had the chance to get x ship and being tired of a false statement that any one saying they did not have a chance is wrong.
I can't tell what that's supposed to mean, but for the record, I favor making acquisition of older items easier. I am in favor of both proposed methods of either increasing the drop rate of tokens in the Phoenix Box or instituting a 'trade up' system. I am also in favor of making ship specific consoles and traits available for a lesser price like a Very Rare Token.
The only thing I have opposed is giving people free account wide unlocks who have missed previous events. I am fine with people who miss events having to jump through a couple extra hoops as long as those hoops are reasonable. Given the current drop rate of VR and Epic Tokens, the current system is absolutely not reasonable.
The question is the ... "why" are you opposed to people getting older ship account unlocks? How does it harm you in any way? How does it benefit anyone in any way to restrict them? What exactly does it matter if I spend the next 25+ days "grinding" to get a Breen ship or the Fek'ugly ship?
And finally, I find it very sad the the mindset of "you weren't here and it's all your fault, so too bad" is quite demeaning. Were I live, we frequently have severe summer storms (I live in Australia, so this "Winter" event is actually our summer) And we lose power and/or internet access for sometimes weeks at a time between Dec and Feb. So it can be very difficult to actually have access to the game for a period long enough to even attempt to get these ships, at the time they are launched.
So is that my fault? Should I leave my home move to America during "QWW" just to get the ship?
Or would it be a better customer experience if Cryptic allowed me some way to access these old event rewards, the same way others did, without having to get a second mortgage in order to beat the RNG?
Not by you or your posts but has also been stated that people had the chance to get x ship and being tired of a false statement that any one saying they did not have a chance is wrong.
Since 2004, I've had the chance to play and acquire every single piece of exclusive gear in World of Warcraft. I have had the same opportunity as anyone who actually plays World of Warcraft. However, I have chosen to never once play World of Warcraft and therefore I have chosen to miss out even though I had the chance to play WoW.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
The problem is that up until the Lohlunat Festival of 2015 you could slot past event ships each year when that event came around. I remember because I missed slotting the Breen Carrier but wasn't concerned, figured I would just slot it the next year. I was very disappointed when they announced just prior to that summer festival that due to "exclusivity" we would no longer be able to do that anymore. This is also when they added the yearly token system and account claim for all event ships.
If they had never set a precedent for doing it in the past people probably wouldn't even think to ask for it, but they did. I understand why they changed the token system to yearly. It sucks to have people flying that ship on day one... I mean I understand they need their play metrics each year, but removing the ability to slot past ships was a bad idea.
No changes of any kind will happen as a result of this thread. Nor should there be any.
As to the effects of RL on obtaining event rewards. Several years ago, during a Mirror event, my computer suffered a fatal malfunction (overheated so severely the morherboard was damaged), and I was unable to complete the event. I did not get the account unlock (which actually was not even possible then) or even obtain the Chocrane Shotgun, until the Phoenix came to be.
At what point did your difficulty in obtaining an event item become the only way?
Just because you or I or anyone else had this restriction on obtaining an item is not a rational reason for preserving it.
My effort and resources that have been used to obtain an item has no bearing on what a new player should half to do or not do. In fact a precedent has been already set to that end with crafting.
I had to level crafting with each different itineration that was implemented. Is that a valid reason for some new player to need to also level each one like I did? In short no likewise with the currency changes regarding the consolidation of marks did we receive equal value to the marks we had? Again no you could purchase more items with the marks before consolidation then after.
As the game has evolved change has came in different forms and in each case some people felt it invalidated there effort already placed in the game. No one can change the past but to want to lock off items for future players based off what a person has already done is not a rational argument.
If you spent resources or time effort on something you received your reward for doing so. A new player being able to acquire the same thing affects your game in no way. Unless you count the removal of some form of exclusivity of having an item a effect.
TBH I can't even see the "exclusivity" thing as being valid, as we've already seen, they are not only giving away pretty much everything that was/is in any way "exclusive" (i.e cross faction "crates" with opposite faction 'exclusive' consoles/gear) But also with "event" items in the PPP and Inf. LB (I wonder how shrunken the STO epeen's got, when that one unobtainable "founder" item, the RMC, showed up in the PPP)
Add to that, Cryptic is now even adding the cash (or more accurately, Zen) for no grind option, seen first with the Breach event, and now with BBS, you can't even claim that they are interested in "player metrics". Because you can "pay" to not even have to do the events!
So again, how could it hurt them or any other player, in any demonstrably valid way whatsoever, to allow players to slot older event items? Personally, I can only see benefits in player numbers coming from it.
Add to that, Cryptic is now even adding the CASH (or more accurately, Zen) for no grind option, seen first with the Breach event, and now with BBS, you can't even claim that they are interested in "player metrics". Because you can "PAY" to not even have to do the events!
NOTE: Added emphasis on CASH & PAY are mine.
You hit the nail on the head with that one...
This is what happened: Someone sitting at their calculator had a realization...
X amount of $ (average cost of obtaining the lobi (winter/summer) or exact zen (Breach/Crystal)) > 125 minutes (assuming it takes 5 minutes to run the 25 races) of time spent logged in on the bean counter's old metric table.
And finally, I find it very sad the the mindset of "you weren't here and it's all your fault, so too bad" is quite demeaning.
I believe we have a serious communication breakdown going on here. Lets remember, written text lacks a seriously important component of verbal communication.. tone of voice. I guess what I wrote can be taken that way if read from a certain perspective, but that's absolutely not how it was intended.
My only point is, that developers drive people to events through 'exclusives.' The philosophy of 'for a limited time' really does drive considerable traffic. When people know they can just go back anytime and get it, they don't feel that need to be part of the actual event. Rather this is 'right' or 'wrong' is really a matter of opinion, I am just saying I understand where Cryptic is coming from by doing 'limited time' events. I guess I have just played enough games that I am used to this type of thing because it's actually very common.
Do not however, confuse that with some sense of entitlement or superiority complex. There is nothing 'superior' about having been online for an event. The player that 'earned' the item has done nothing special outside of log in during a specified time period. No one is saying anything different. For these events to have appeal however, there needs to be that 'get it while you can' factor that drives people to the event. The problem with this is, that certain items that are highly desirable like The Domino Console, Lukari Protomater, the Cold Hearted Trait, etc are now left unavailable to people that were not here at that exact time.
I agree, that's not fair.
The compromise offered by Cryptic was introduction of these items through the Phoenix Box in a 'per character' basis. Now, this isn't nearly as desirable as the account unlock, but at least it gives people a method to get the items they missed. I think the idea overall, is a good compromise, it only fails because the odds of getting what you need are ridiculously slim. Steps need to be taken to make this process much easier for people that need to use it.
It's not about demeaning anyone, it's not about some false sense of superiority, and I apologize if I made it sound that way.. that was never the intent. The intent was to understand why Cryptic does things this way and preserve that method while not leaving anyone out in the cold that might join at a later date. Unfortunately, the current system doesn't do a good job of that because the items are just too difficult to acquire. Many of the proposed methods in this thread would go a long way toward rectifying this situation. It would keep it desirable to do events when they're available but would make it so that you're not just screwed if you can't do the event for some reason.
It's entirely possible to reward people for doing events while not punishing people for not being able to do them. Cryptic just needs to tweak their current system to make this happen. Having to hope for an Epic Token from a Phoenix Box with a .03% drop rate is not a realistic solution and it needs to be revised.
There is a way to get the older event ships. Its called the Phoenix.
Yeah, but I'd change it a bit... Epic tokens give you the account unlock while the Ultra Rare tokens give you a single ship. Epics are really really hard to get, should be a bigger payout when you get one.
Missing an event ship can be annoying, but the bigger annoyance is when that ship has the 4th part to a ship set. Should be a way to get just that piece of gear. Maybe a secondary Event Rep project a few months after the ship is unavailable. People should be able to get stuff, even if they have to wait 6 months to a year later. AKA when all the initial event participants are 'done' with it.
The changes in 2015 were made specifically to STOP players from benefiting from having played the event last year, to instead reward the players who play this year. .
That was annoying. I had 2-3 years worth of tokens saved up for Summer and Winter events. I put in the same time to get the tokens as someone doing it each year, I just did it earlier!
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
It would appear the main issue here is availability of EVENT items. I specify event items not Lobi or lockbox items.
There are several possibilities in the way availability can be implemented. For event ships open up the ability to slot any ship project from the past events winter one at that time summer at its respective times. To restrict gaming the system and have players in an event limit it to one ship per event this makes a new player pick and chose what ship they want.
Will the new player always be behind older players yes but the point is it is available to them for the price of giving up the current ship. Regardless of what ship a person is involved in the event for they are placing the same effort to acquire a ship. People are driven to the event and no one is left with abysmal chances of gaining a past item.
The odyssey was an event ship give out for free to those that played during its event. Later the same ship is now available for 200K fleet credits to any one that may want it. This is also a possibility for past ships and items tied in to fleet holdings. If anyone is concerned about someone else earning a ship in a different manor and cost of resources then add the requirement of fleet ship modules to the ship. In this way it also is monetized for cryptic.
Lastly items and ships can be placed in the c store for a price why allowing the ability to acquire a ship or item also provides a monetized path.
Not every item is in the phoenix box such as the ophidian cane. Is the cane really worth placing a price on it? Who is to say the point is that the item becomes available. And as for the phoenix event in and of itself regardless of any adjustment in drop rates is still in limbo. There is no set time you can point to and say well the phoenix event will be available from July 1 to the 4th each year. Whatever metric cryptic uses to time the event is unknown.
The event items should be made to be available to new players as well as those that may have missed out on the first run. We have an event guaranteed to happen every Friday the 13th and every Halloween it is not unreasonable to want events to be available in such a manner.
Why it forces new player to await an event and provides a limited exclusivity for older players the point is that there is a reasonable guarantee of acquiring an event item from the past.
Lastly items and ships can be placed in the c store for a price why allowing the ability to acquire a ship or item also provides a monetized path.
Yup, for a F2P game to NOT give players a way to buy something seems stupid. Personally, I would put last year's ship in the C-store during the next year's event. That way event participants still have 'exclusive' access for 1yr.
Making them accessible from the Phoenix store is ok, but you can spend tons of Dil and never get an Epic token. Since that's the way they've decided to go, I'd have made the phoenix tokens unbound. That way people who don't need Epic tokens can sell 'em to people who do. This would also give more people a reason to spend Dil; which is pretty much the No.1 point to the Phoenix boxes, eh?
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
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'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
My only point is, that developers drive people to events through 'exclusives.' The philosophy of 'for a limited time' really does drive considerable traffic. When people know they can just go back anytime and get it, they don't feel that need to be part of the actual event. Rather this is 'right' or 'wrong' is really a matter of opinion, I am just saying I understand where Cryptic is coming from by doing 'limited time' events. I guess I have just played enough games that I am used to this type of thing because it's actually very common.
Do not however, confuse that with some sense of entitlement or superiority complex. There is nothing 'superior' about having been online for an event. The player that 'earned' the item has done nothing special outside of log in during a specified time period. No one is saying anything different. For these events to have appeal however, there needs to be that 'get it while you can' factor that drives people to the event. The problem with this is, that certain items that are highly desirable like The Domino Console, Lukari Protomater, the Cold Hearted Trait, etc are now left unavailable to people that were not here at that exact time.
It's possible to have limited time events, and then rerun them. This does not interfere with "get it while you can." To be accurate, the event ships don't even have that strong "get it while you can" to begin with since all you actually need to do is slot the project during the event and it'll stay there to be filled next year.
Or even weaker the recruit events where all you had to do is create the character and the actual gameplay would wait forever.
And other people have made it very clear they see new players being excluded as a reward for themselves, so there is some superiority complex going on even if you're not one of them.
Comments
As others have mentioned there are many games that allow access to past events periodically with some method of getting historical rewards from said event. I'd happily put in the time or drop some cash for the opportunity, but the current model leaves a lot to be desired.
Removing the old event ships was part of Cryptic's panic button overreaction to the Big Event Mistake of 2014. They had given the ships an account unlocked discount but unwisely left the token drops per-character, which had allowed some players to collect years or even decades worth of ship tokens by grinding with multiple toons but only spending on one of them. Obviously that couldn't stand.
The changes in 2015 were made specifically to STOP players from benefitting from having played the event last year, to instead reward the players who play this year. They were in fact originally going to make the ships completely unavailable for everyone after the event was over. The permanent unlocks were put in as a compromise to appease massive complaints after the initial announcement.
Later, with more careful planning, new event formats (like the weekend voucher events) have been created that use account-wide token drops, which prevent players from hoarding tokens in a more intelligent manner and support old rewards remaining available. I do hope they'll update old content to use similar rules at some point, and can then restore the old ship projects for everyone's benefit.
You don't understand i HAVE been here from the start i have had the items and make use of them some i have missed so no i don't have them all. I have items on my toons that new players can't get and why not needed to do the games content are of great use. What i am saying is that locking the content from players old or new is just wrong and being entitled just do to being here then is also wrong. Deployment in the military, Power outages, real life unavoidable instances have caused many other to simply be left out. And having only one recourse of getting screwed over by a RNG is only one more reason new players will look at what they are missing and decide to leave, and that only hurts everyone. Entitled to exclusivity of a reward is a limited view.
Some thing is needed to correct this why i don't have the answer to the problem it is none the less a problem.
Absolutely. That's why i suggested the "convert-up" method, so you wouldn't have to purely rely on your sacrifices to RNGods to obtain those ships.
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Honestly, though, I still do not understand why they took away the ability to slot older event ships during the current event each year. Exclusivity is a ridiculous reason to withhold previous FREE ships. As long as people are having to pay large amounts of money or spend the same amount of time grinding it that I did I couldn't care less if a player who just started playing has access to the Breen Chel Grett or Risian Corvette. As long as they have to at least run all of those stupid races, fly through all of those stupid courses, or pay a ridiculous amount for a free ship, then more power to them. Just because I ran those events several years ago doesn't make me any more worthy than someone who maybe hadn't even heard of STO back then and just logged in yesterday.
Just put them back on the event tab to be slotted for the current year vouchers. You still wouldn't be able to save vouchers for the newest ship to get on day one, but you would be able to get older event ships... AND you get the added benefit of more people logging alts in and more toons running the event.
More play metrics, happier player-base. WIN WIN.
I guess that is, except for those whose self worth is dependent upon how much more digital content they own over someone else... But, IMO TRIBBLE'em. Are they REALLY going to leave the game because someone was allowed to do the same thing they did to receive a ship just years later?
^^This +1000
Some think a guaranteed goal driven means of access to past ships.
Some are in favor of placing the past event ships back to be earned the same way as everyone else.
Some feel some form of entitlement and rationalization that they were there and leave it as is.
Personally I am in favor of goal driven or earning past ships in current events.
I would also be in favor of placing them in the c store at a price relative to the ships level.
Regardless make the ships or items as the event may be available in a reasonable fashion not left to some RNG. Also note this is event items we are talking about. Not lockbox or lobi items .
In any case this will be my last post in this thread.
Another good idea would be to allow players to slot old event ship projects but only allow old projects to be filled with lobi. 900 per ship.
Again, way to let your victim complex prevent you from understanding an opposing view point.
No one in this thread opposes the idea of allowing people to acquire previous items. We're having a civil conversation about the best and most fair methods while you crying and playing victim.
The only person in this entire thread expressing a sense of entitlement, is you.
It appears as if a nerve was struck for you regarding a comment that was a statement based on the 3 general conclusions in this thread. I did not call you out as being entitled. Neither did I quote anyone else in this thread however you feel the need to defend yourself over the statement. Do you not express entitlement as you were here as your rationalization regarding others having past ships and items? Have the people in this thread not expressed that the current state of acquiring the ships and items is fine the way it is? In fact some have even expressed the wanting of the expense of opening a free past ship to be in excess of $200 per ship. Simple math of a guaranteed 4 lobi per key and rounding keys to $1 per key is the way I came to that figure before anyone else cares to call that a false sum.
As to expressing entitlement and being a victim how am I a victim? At the end of the day the fact is I still have my unlocks. I still have my ships. I still have my orb of possibility’s and ophidian cane As well as others legacy unlocks for my account. If I fail to have some meta ship or item for not being able to or simply deciding not to run some activity that becomes nauseating year after year then so be it. At the end of the day it matters nothing one way or the other.
As to “We're having a civil conversation about the best and most fair methods” At what point have I not been civil? As for fair methods fair is subjective at best. My posts have been for the inclusion of new players and not a response from old players attempting to justify there position simply do to fact they were there.
Not by you or your posts but has also been stated that people had the chance to get x ship and being tired of a false statement that any one saying they did not have a chance is wrong.
Some people may be able to be available for every event and get every items and ship that comes. But I have seen people not be able to do so as I stated in a previous post either do to military service, Power outages, or other real life problems some people have not had a chance to get the items.
Storms tend to knock out power. Lines down tend to disrupt communications networks. For that matter sun flares can even effect networks.
Real life happens this is a game simple digital content for entertainment and leisure activity. One could make the case that the people tending to real life obligations instead of a digital worlds demands have there priority’s sorted correctly. But I am sure that nothing like that has happened before making the statement false.
In any case a change made to the acquisition of older event ships or items may or may not come about as a consequence of this thread. In the end it is out of the players hands.
I can't tell what that's supposed to mean, but for the record, I favor making acquisition of older items easier. I am in favor of both proposed methods of either increasing the drop rate of tokens in the Phoenix Box or instituting a 'trade up' system. I am also in favor of making ship specific consoles and traits available for a lesser price like a Very Rare Token.
The only thing I have opposed is giving people free account wide unlocks who have missed previous events. I am fine with people who miss events having to jump through a couple extra hoops as long as those hoops are reasonable. Given the current drop rate of VR and Epic Tokens, the current system is absolutely not reasonable.
And finally, I find it very sad the the mindset of "you weren't here and it's all your fault, so too bad" is quite demeaning. Were I live, we frequently have severe summer storms (I live in Australia, so this "Winter" event is actually our summer) And we lose power and/or internet access for sometimes weeks at a time between Dec and Feb. So it can be very difficult to actually have access to the game for a period long enough to even attempt to get these ships, at the time they are launched.
So is that my fault? Should I leave my home move to America during "QWW" just to get the ship?
Or would it be a better customer experience if Cryptic allowed me some way to access these old event rewards, the same way others did, without having to get a second mortgage in order to beat the RNG?
Since 2004, I've had the chance to play and acquire every single piece of exclusive gear in World of Warcraft. I have had the same opportunity as anyone who actually plays World of Warcraft. However, I have chosen to never once play World of Warcraft and therefore I have chosen to miss out even though I had the chance to play WoW.
If they had never set a precedent for doing it in the past people probably wouldn't even think to ask for it, but they did. I understand why they changed the token system to yearly. It sucks to have people flying that ship on day one... I mean I understand they need their play metrics each year, but removing the ability to slot past ships was a bad idea.
At what point did your difficulty in obtaining an event item become the only way?
Just because you or I or anyone else had this restriction on obtaining an item is not a rational reason for preserving it.
My effort and resources that have been used to obtain an item has no bearing on what a new player should half to do or not do. In fact a precedent has been already set to that end with crafting.
I had to level crafting with each different itineration that was implemented. Is that a valid reason for some new player to need to also level each one like I did? In short no likewise with the currency changes regarding the consolidation of marks did we receive equal value to the marks we had? Again no you could purchase more items with the marks before consolidation then after.
As the game has evolved change has came in different forms and in each case some people felt it invalidated there effort already placed in the game. No one can change the past but to want to lock off items for future players based off what a person has already done is not a rational argument.
If you spent resources or time effort on something you received your reward for doing so. A new player being able to acquire the same thing affects your game in no way. Unless you count the removal of some form of exclusivity of having an item a effect.
Add to that, Cryptic is now even adding the cash (or more accurately, Zen) for no grind option, seen first with the Breach event, and now with BBS, you can't even claim that they are interested in "player metrics". Because you can "pay" to not even have to do the events!
So again, how could it hurt them or any other player, in any demonstrably valid way whatsoever, to allow players to slot older event items? Personally, I can only see benefits in player numbers coming from it.
NOTE: Added emphasis on CASH & PAY are mine.
You hit the nail on the head with that one...
This is what happened: Someone sitting at their calculator had a realization...
X amount of $ (average cost of obtaining the lobi (winter/summer) or exact zen (Breach/Crystal)) > 125 minutes (assuming it takes 5 minutes to run the 25 races) of time spent logged in on the bean counter's old metric table.
I believe we have a serious communication breakdown going on here. Lets remember, written text lacks a seriously important component of verbal communication.. tone of voice. I guess what I wrote can be taken that way if read from a certain perspective, but that's absolutely not how it was intended.
My only point is, that developers drive people to events through 'exclusives.' The philosophy of 'for a limited time' really does drive considerable traffic. When people know they can just go back anytime and get it, they don't feel that need to be part of the actual event. Rather this is 'right' or 'wrong' is really a matter of opinion, I am just saying I understand where Cryptic is coming from by doing 'limited time' events. I guess I have just played enough games that I am used to this type of thing because it's actually very common.
Do not however, confuse that with some sense of entitlement or superiority complex. There is nothing 'superior' about having been online for an event. The player that 'earned' the item has done nothing special outside of log in during a specified time period. No one is saying anything different. For these events to have appeal however, there needs to be that 'get it while you can' factor that drives people to the event. The problem with this is, that certain items that are highly desirable like The Domino Console, Lukari Protomater, the Cold Hearted Trait, etc are now left unavailable to people that were not here at that exact time.
I agree, that's not fair.
The compromise offered by Cryptic was introduction of these items through the Phoenix Box in a 'per character' basis. Now, this isn't nearly as desirable as the account unlock, but at least it gives people a method to get the items they missed. I think the idea overall, is a good compromise, it only fails because the odds of getting what you need are ridiculously slim. Steps need to be taken to make this process much easier for people that need to use it.
It's not about demeaning anyone, it's not about some false sense of superiority, and I apologize if I made it sound that way.. that was never the intent. The intent was to understand why Cryptic does things this way and preserve that method while not leaving anyone out in the cold that might join at a later date. Unfortunately, the current system doesn't do a good job of that because the items are just too difficult to acquire. Many of the proposed methods in this thread would go a long way toward rectifying this situation. It would keep it desirable to do events when they're available but would make it so that you're not just screwed if you can't do the event for some reason.
It's entirely possible to reward people for doing events while not punishing people for not being able to do them. Cryptic just needs to tweak their current system to make this happen. Having to hope for an Epic Token from a Phoenix Box with a .03% drop rate is not a realistic solution and it needs to be revised.
Yeah, but I'd change it a bit... Epic tokens give you the account unlock while the Ultra Rare tokens give you a single ship. Epics are really really hard to get, should be a bigger payout when you get one.
Missing an event ship can be annoying, but the bigger annoyance is when that ship has the 4th part to a ship set. Should be a way to get just that piece of gear. Maybe a secondary Event Rep project a few months after the ship is unavailable. People should be able to get stuff, even if they have to wait 6 months to a year later. AKA when all the initial event participants are 'done' with it.
That was annoying. I had 2-3 years worth of tokens saved up for Summer and Winter events. I put in the same time to get the tokens as someone doing it each year, I just did it earlier!
There are several possibilities in the way availability can be implemented. For event ships open up the ability to slot any ship project from the past events winter one at that time summer at its respective times. To restrict gaming the system and have players in an event limit it to one ship per event this makes a new player pick and chose what ship they want.
Will the new player always be behind older players yes but the point is it is available to them for the price of giving up the current ship. Regardless of what ship a person is involved in the event for they are placing the same effort to acquire a ship. People are driven to the event and no one is left with abysmal chances of gaining a past item.
The odyssey was an event ship give out for free to those that played during its event. Later the same ship is now available for 200K fleet credits to any one that may want it. This is also a possibility for past ships and items tied in to fleet holdings. If anyone is concerned about someone else earning a ship in a different manor and cost of resources then add the requirement of fleet ship modules to the ship. In this way it also is monetized for cryptic.
Lastly items and ships can be placed in the c store for a price why allowing the ability to acquire a ship or item also provides a monetized path.
Not every item is in the phoenix box such as the ophidian cane. Is the cane really worth placing a price on it? Who is to say the point is that the item becomes available. And as for the phoenix event in and of itself regardless of any adjustment in drop rates is still in limbo. There is no set time you can point to and say well the phoenix event will be available from July 1 to the 4th each year. Whatever metric cryptic uses to time the event is unknown.
The event items should be made to be available to new players as well as those that may have missed out on the first run. We have an event guaranteed to happen every Friday the 13th and every Halloween it is not unreasonable to want events to be available in such a manner.
Why it forces new player to await an event and provides a limited exclusivity for older players the point is that there is a reasonable guarantee of acquiring an event item from the past.
Yup, for a F2P game to NOT give players a way to buy something seems stupid. Personally, I would put last year's ship in the C-store during the next year's event. That way event participants still have 'exclusive' access for 1yr.
Making them accessible from the Phoenix store is ok,
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I mean seriously though I've never gotten a token above very rare...never.
Or even weaker the recruit events where all you had to do is create the character and the actual gameplay would wait forever.
And other people have made it very clear they see new players being excluded as a reward for themselves, so there is some superiority complex going on even if you're not one of them.