Phase Cloaking in Star Trek

ryan218

So, I was re-watching TNG on Netflix this afternoon and watched 'The Next Phase' (Season 6, I think). Interestingly, the Romulan ship is found to be using a Phase Cloaking Device, like that we see in 'Pegasus' in Season 7. Even more interesting: it turns out the Klingons had already looked into the same technology years earlier (and appear to have been the only ones sensible enough to abandon it when things went wrong).

Did the writers remember 'The Next Phase' when writing Pegasus, or is it just coincidence? Either way, it helps explain why Starfleet was so invested in not only finding the Pegasus, but in restarting the Phase Cloaking experiments. Another question is: is it possible Starfleet used the Klingon programme as a front for its own Phase Cloak, or that the Klingons were working with Preston's black project, or that Starfleet simply got hold of the Klingon research?

Just something that really caught my interest and I thought I'd share.

rattler2

I didn't even know the Klingons experimented with Phase Cloaks.

Anyways...

We know Admiral Preston did not agree with the Treaty of Algeron, which prohibited the Federation from developing cloaking tech. He saw it as putting the Federation at a disadvantage when compared to its neighbors, namely the Romulan Star Empire.

Frankly Phase Cloak tech is more dangerous than its worth. The loss of the Pegasus is a prime example.

sevenofnine13141

Admiral Pressman - not Preston - did oppose the Treaty of Algeron because of that one clause. It was illegal for the Federation to develop their own cloaking devices or even possess them. Exceptions were of course made with the USS Defiant. The Phase-Cloak was a direct violation of that treaty; it was also dangerous tech as Rattler stated. Now obviously, according to STO lore, by the turn of the 24th century, the Federation was starting to develop cloaks again as the Romulan Star Empire began to crack and when it finally collapsed in 2409-2410, the treaty became defunct and no longer valid. Yes the treaty put the Federation at a disadvantage, but it was one that was overcome by the development of tachyon detection nets which were supposed to detect cloaked ships. The Federation was willing to allow the cloak ban clause because it meant that there would be peace - or atleast an end to hostilities. The Federation would've overcome the disadvantage, which, as proven with the tachyon nets - they indeed did overcome it.

rattler2

Close enough. At least I was in the ballpark.

ryan218

rattler2 wrote: »

I didn't even know the Klingons experimented with Phase Cloaks.

Anyways...

We know Admiral Preston did not agree with the Treaty of Algeron, which prohibited the Federation from developing cloaking tech. He saw it as putting the Federation at a disadvantage when compared to its neighbors, namely the Romulan Star Empire.

Frankly Phase Cloak tech is more dangerous than its worth. The loss of the Pegasus is a prime example.

Yeah, Geordi refers to Klingon experiments with the tech when he discovers the Romulan prototype on the Romulan ship in 'The Next Phase'. I suppose what I'm wondering is if the knowledge that the Romulans were developing the tech, coupled with their discovery of the Pegasus, spurred Pressman and Starfleet into trying to recover the Pegasus and their own Phase Cloak prototype?

lordrezeon

I don't know if I would claim it is totally dangerous. The Enterprise used it just fine the one time they tried. You have to remember the Pegasus crew mutinied, so it is hardly an ideal example of the tech in action.

Personally I think avoiding cloaking tech was a huge mistake on Gene Roddenberry's part. I think it is totally in character for the Federation to want technology that would let them avoid fights by simply hiding.

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rattler2

I don't think so. Starfleet doesn't hide. They try and solve things diplomatically, and if all else fails... open a can. Starfleet Officers are not cowards that hide at the first sign of danger.

Not only that... you have to consider that Enterprise got LUCKY when it worked as designed. Mutiny or not, the Pegasus was lost because of that Phase Cloak. Enterprise ran that same risk as well. If there was any malfunction or interruption in the power... Enterprise would have been lost too.

Fact of the matter is... Pegasus experimented with illegal tech. What the Treaty of Algeron did FOR the Federation is push ANTI-Cloak capabilities. Romulans and Klingons may have Cloaks, but the Federation started to be the masters of Cloak Detection. Tachyon Detection Grids being the prime example. Its a bit like the classic Arms Race example. One side makes a better sword, the other makes a better shield to counter it.

The only time the Federation's Cloak Detection capability was truly useless was against the Scimitar.

Unknown

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ryan218

But Starfleet did know how it worked: they stole a Romulan cloak in TOS, and it seems reasonable to assume they were able to study Klingon examples during the alliance period (by the very fact Geordi knew about Klingon phase cloaking experiments). The Treaty of Algeron said Starfleet couldn't develop its own cloak: it said nothing about studying other races' tech.

rattler2

ryan218 wrote: »

The Treaty of Algeron said Starfleet couldn't develop its own cloak: it said nothing about studying other races' tech.

This. And lets not forget that the Romulans did give the USS Defiant a cloak. Which brings us to one plot hole. What happened to that Romulan operator who was attached to USS Defiant to handle said cloak?

patrickngo wrote: »

basically, knowing how to make it, makes it easier to break it.

Which would now imply that the Klingons and Romulans are incompetant because they have shown in the past they can't pick up on each other's cloaks, despite having their own. In the episode with Jarok when he tried to defect to the Federation, the Romulan Warbirds weren't detected by Enterprise until they decloaked yes... BUT... the Romulans also did NOT detect the three Klingon ships that were cloaked around THEM. And its pretty much implied that Klingon cloak tech is a variation of Romulan cloak tech. So... in theory the Romulans, knowing how their cloaks work, should be able to pierce Klingon cloaks according to your logic.

Also... note that another faction that doesn't use cloaks actually has excellent anti-cloak capability. The Dominion. They don't use cloaking devices, yet in many instances they were able to detect and zero in on cloaked ships early on.

brian334

rattler2 wrote: »

Which brings us to one plot hole. What happened to that Romulan operator who was attached to USS Defiant to handle said cloak?

She was recalled when Romulus signed a non-aggression pact with the Dominion. I honestly hoped for more from her than the show gave her.

In Balance of Terror Mark Len... umm, Romulan Commander, said their sensors were reduced in their abilities due to being inside the cloaking field, so Romulans detecting cloaked vessels while cloaked may well have been an issue, even though they probably knew as much about the Klingon cloaks as the Federation did to detect them when not cloaked.

But of course, Romulans only decloak to fire torpedoes or to fire witty barbs at hapless Starfleet captains.

As for the Federation use of cloaks: they did indeed use them, just not on ships. On Mintaka III, in TNG, Who Watches The Watchers? a cloaked blind is exposed due to equipment failure, and we all know what a fiasco the duck blind in Nemesis turned out to be. Heck, they even cloaked Data in that episode. (+1 for Data's disembodied head running about! Nobody can lose his head quite like Brent Spiner!)

jonsills

rattler2 wrote: »

Admiral Preston

"Another starbase needs your help. Here, I'll mark it on your map."

rattler2

brian334 wrote: »

As for the Federation use of cloaks: they did indeed use them, just not on ships. On Mintaka III, in TNG, Who Watches The Watchers? a cloaked blind is exposed due to equipment failure, and we all know what a fiasco the duck blind in Nemesis turned out to be. Heck, they even cloaked Data in that episode. (+1 for Data's disembodied head running about! Nobody can lose his head quite like Brent Spiner!)

Actually... that was Insurrection. And the duckblind wasn't cloaked. It was concealed via Holograms. Same as the Duckblind on Mintaka III. The suits... were apparently using Holotech rather than legit cloaks according to the behind the scenes stuff. The only real use of a FEDERATION cloak in Insurrection was actually the illegal Holoship.

memory alpha wrote:

In the script of Star Trek: Insurrection, the term cloaked is used of the people using the suits and the term decloaking is used when isolation suits are turned off, but it is also clearly indicated that a force field is responsible for the invisibility. [1]
The Star Trek Fact Files state that isolation suits use holographic technology rather than a cloaking device to achieve the invisibility. In the novel Lesser Evil, the Trill Hiziki Gard used an isolation suit to evade capture after he assassinated the Bajoran First Minister, Shakaar Edon, on Deep Space 9.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Duck_blind
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Isolation_suit

Using Holograms to achieve a similar effect as a Cloak is not the same as actually using a Cloak.

brian334

rattler2 wrote: »

brian334 wrote: »

As for the Federation use of cloaks: they did indeed use them, just not on ships. On Mintaka III, in TNG, Who Watches The Watchers? a cloaked blind is exposed due to equipment failure, and we all know what a fiasco the duck blind in Nemesis turned out to be. Heck, they even cloaked Data in that episode. (+1 for Data's disembodied head running about! Nobody can lose his head quite like Brent Spiner!)

Actually... that was Insurrection. And the duckblind wasn't cloaked. It was concealed via Holograms. Same as the Duckblind on Mintaka III. The suits... were apparently using Holotech rather than legit cloaks according to the behind the scenes stuff. The only real use of a FEDERATION cloak in Insurrection was actually the illegal Holoship.

memory alpha wrote:

In the script of Star Trek: Insurrection, the term cloaked is used of the people using the suits and the term decloaking is used when isolation suits are turned off, but it is also clearly indicated that a force field is responsible for the invisibility. [1]
The Star Trek Fact Files state that isolation suits use holographic technology rather than a cloaking device to achieve the invisibility. In the novel Lesser Evil, the Trill Hiziki Gard used an isolation suit to evade capture after he assassinated the Bajoran First Minister, Shakaar Edon, on Deep Space 9.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Duck_blind
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Isolation_suit

Using Holograms to achieve a similar effect as a Cloak is not the same as actually using a Cloak.

A snake with loreal pits is a pit viper, no matter if you call it a cottonmouth, copperhead, or rattlesnake. Practical invisibility, no matter how it's achieved, is cloaking.

This is not to say camouflage is cloaking. Camouflage is not invisibility, but rendering ones image indistinct from the background. A camouflaged person, vehicle, or structure is in plain sight but disguised to not look like what it is. One could argue that the Duck Blind used camouflage, but then one would have to demonstrate that it was in plain sight, which it was not. And you could see through Data, except his head.