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Lack of rewarding gameplay and the economy.
alexraptorr
Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
It has to be said, the gameplay in STO these days is extremely unrewarding and the economy is a joke.
I feel as if the only reliable way to earn huge amounts of EC's these days is to open lockboxes and sell lockbox keys, and this isn't good.
I am especially struck by how little actual active gameplay drives the economy. Epic loot drops of high desirability and value which are a staple of most MMORPG's have been suspiciously absent from the game since its creation.
For a brief time it did seem STO was heading in the right direction with the Borg Task Force revamp and the Prototype Borg Tech drops(Though they were bind on pickup, and got undone when Cryptic caved to self-entitled whiners and introduced the Omega Reputation system) along with Mk XII gear drops coming exclusively from Elite Task Force missions.
That said there was still great value to be found subsequently in Very Rare gear drops from other queues, missions and warzones that commanded respectable prices, consoles, weapons, etc.
Unfortunately the entire loot system has pretty much been undermined by the crafting revamp and the introduction of reputation gear, fleet gear and re-engineering.
I can't think of a single piece of equipment that drops anymore that is worth even a fraction of high value lockbox weapons and crafted special gear that as of yet cannot be re-engineered.
And speaking of crafting, that too is something that Cryptic has heavily undermined the economic value of by introducing phoenix tech upgrades.
As a result and the frequency of those promotions, superior and experimental tech upgrades are only worth a mere fraction of what they used to be.
Alright so I'm rambling a little here, definitely venting a bit, but what do I want out of this?
Well it would be nice if Cryptic started thinking about the in-game economy a bit more, and perhaps actually put some of that lockbox RNG back into the game.
Dial back the phoenix promotions a bit maybe? or give crafted and dropped gear some nice unique procs or modifiers that cannot be obtained by simply re-engineering existing gear.
Give us some highly prized rare item drops from various sources that are "bind on equip" that we could keep or trade with other players. Like what if Elite TFO's had an extremely rare chance to drop unique Vanity Shields/Engines/Deflectors? Vanity shields seem to have been a big hit with the community lately, and the introduction of unique drops like that in TFO's would give people a genuine incentive to play them, to have a shot at that "shiny" that makes them feel special, or alternatively sell it to rich players who want to have that rare and special "shiny" and becoming rich in turn.
All that I'm saying, is that the game economy could use an overhaul, and reward more actions than just sitting on ESD buying keys and opening boxes.
I feel as if the only reliable way to earn huge amounts of EC's these days is to open lockboxes and sell lockbox keys, and this isn't good.
I am especially struck by how little actual active gameplay drives the economy. Epic loot drops of high desirability and value which are a staple of most MMORPG's have been suspiciously absent from the game since its creation.
For a brief time it did seem STO was heading in the right direction with the Borg Task Force revamp and the Prototype Borg Tech drops(Though they were bind on pickup, and got undone when Cryptic caved to self-entitled whiners and introduced the Omega Reputation system) along with Mk XII gear drops coming exclusively from Elite Task Force missions.
That said there was still great value to be found subsequently in Very Rare gear drops from other queues, missions and warzones that commanded respectable prices, consoles, weapons, etc.
Unfortunately the entire loot system has pretty much been undermined by the crafting revamp and the introduction of reputation gear, fleet gear and re-engineering.
I can't think of a single piece of equipment that drops anymore that is worth even a fraction of high value lockbox weapons and crafted special gear that as of yet cannot be re-engineered.
And speaking of crafting, that too is something that Cryptic has heavily undermined the economic value of by introducing phoenix tech upgrades.
As a result and the frequency of those promotions, superior and experimental tech upgrades are only worth a mere fraction of what they used to be.
Alright so I'm rambling a little here, definitely venting a bit, but what do I want out of this?
Well it would be nice if Cryptic started thinking about the in-game economy a bit more, and perhaps actually put some of that lockbox RNG back into the game.
Dial back the phoenix promotions a bit maybe? or give crafted and dropped gear some nice unique procs or modifiers that cannot be obtained by simply re-engineering existing gear.
Give us some highly prized rare item drops from various sources that are "bind on equip" that we could keep or trade with other players. Like what if Elite TFO's had an extremely rare chance to drop unique Vanity Shields/Engines/Deflectors? Vanity shields seem to have been a big hit with the community lately, and the introduction of unique drops like that in TFO's would give people a genuine incentive to play them, to have a shot at that "shiny" that makes them feel special, or alternatively sell it to rich players who want to have that rare and special "shiny" and becoming rich in turn.
All that I'm saying, is that the game economy could use an overhaul, and reward more actions than just sitting on ESD buying keys and opening boxes.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments
It would be cool to see some ultra rare drops that could only be got through gameplay. The rarity system is a complete joke - stuff that is more common than a hypo are "very rare" - look at all the junk you get from the T6 reputation - all of the boxes are so common, you get 3 or 4 a day doing the hourlies, how is that very rare?
The Borg random drop stuff was not exactly ideal and i;m sure it led to several cases of severe Space Madness over the years.
That said, what STO needs is a meaningful loot drop system that makes players WANT to go and run content. Items that are desirable and sought after to entice people to go get them.
And secondary to that these unique and fancy drops need to be fungible, be that they can be traded to other people for a certain value. So if you can get that unique vanity shield from HSE you can keep it for yourself or you can sell it to those unable/unwilling to run the queue.
This does two things:
1) it givers loot a reason to exist and gives queues a reason to be played.
2) it provides an income scheme anyone can get profit from if they are willing to put in the legwork. That means people can get rich, which will drive and economy.
Pretty sure @ruinthefun will be along with a similar idea in short time as he has many a time before. Funny this solution keeps getting brought up....
Pop some shinies in the loot table for random drops at a super rare rate but don't put them in the loot table for ranked content rewards.
That last condition is important. The rare item rewards from ranked content paid for my first lockbox and lobi ship, and for my first lobi set (via buying keys for ec). I had farming that stuff down to a science and always took first place.
Point is, if valuable items were in the loot table for competitive content, then I and other well established players who don't need the help, would just go back to farming and crowd out the newer people.
The most important thing about reviving the economy is giving the new guys something to trade to the old guys so as to give them a leg up, and us something to do with our EC. Otherwise it won't really be an economy fix, it will just be free stuff.
It might also be a good idea to put a cap on how many a player can loot in a 24 hour period, not that i would start exploiting a certain patrol mission for drops...
Reasonable as in maintaining regenerator and component stacks or reasonable as in buy a lobi/lockbox ship off the exchange quickly?
By the time you hit endgame you're most likely gonna be using Fleet or Rep gear, and most people are probably just salvaging vendor trash to re-roll the gear they are using.
I get a pretty decent amount at times from Ferengi Admiralty honestly. And rolling it on 6-7 charcters usually nets around 1 mil a day. In game relying entirely on loot drops... you're not gonna make ECs fast that way. But you don't have to sell keys as a sole means of EC income. Hell... I sold tech upgrades quite a bit myself. You just gotta know the sources. Its just that keys are the quickest since they sell for around 4 mil a pop.
For best results do all of the above, especially the "BUY LOW, SELL HIGH" method.
This isn't true. I've made hundreds of million in EC either from selling stuff, like gear and upgrades, on the exchange. It's just a bit more time consuming than the other approaches described.
I've always viewed the "balance" to the in-game economy arising from the tension between real world money and player time. You need to expend one or the other. Frankly, most of the activities about which people complain (including me) arise from not wanting to spend money or time/effort.
At the other end of the spectrum, when you make stuff easy (think all the painful clicking and the number of people claiming they won't do it for the t6 reputations), it merely creates inflation and power creep. I'm not suggesting in-game mechanics should be needlessly (thoughtlessly?) difficult to prevent people from achieving things. Just that when stuff becomes readily available to everyone, it potentially loses perceived value.
How much more boring would the game be if we all could reach epic gear, earn a billion in EC every few days, and buy every ship we wanted. Not only would it become boring, but the devs could would be in a neverending race to rollout the next new thing.
That said, I would like the game to begin doing unique drops (even at low drop rates) for gear, equipment, upgrades, or even vanity items to collect in specific portions of the game. You haven't lived until you've farmed Savage Lee for an Umkempt Harold for 3 hours only to finally get the drop with the wrong mods or trying to get titanite chunks from the darkwraiths in New Londo.
More would be very welcome.
This right here is exactly what I'm talking about. STO the only full blown MMORPG I have ever played where ALL loot drops are entirely pointless come endgame. Even boss fights don't yield any meaningful drops "anymore".
We get good gear from episodes, reputation, crafting, lockboxes and lobi. So why can't we also get good gear as regular drops? Have the drop tables populated with certain pieces of rare equipment that cannot be obtained anywhere else, have people actually get excited over getting a loot drop, rather than just vendor trash.
I mean seriously, the way things are right now they may just as well get rid of loot drops entirely and have enemy kills dole out EC's and Salvage up front.(of which I am not an advocate for.)
Strange Alien Artifacts....still net a Purple Mark 12 on crit. Yes, at one time it was top of the line ship console...now, not so much. Personal Mobility Shields...still only Blue Mark 11. None of this stuff from DOFF assignments stand up to Golden Mark 15. The best thing for DOFFing is Contraband?? Maybe??? Purple Tech Doffs from B'Tran?
Nothing interesting or new added to R&D....people are asking for additions to their weapon energy types...matching Warp Cores...etc...
Look at the Admiralty system: How many people bother to do Romulan, these days??? They should be giving out quality improvement tokens, not points. Come on, a Romulan hasn't reversed engineered that TRIBBLE, yet??
You want people to stay and play the game....up the stakes.
Seriously, this game has turned into collect-a-token-coin.
Even Farmville had better loot drops for their collections.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
To expand on this a little for those who have missed the point. I would ask everyone to consider this question:
"What do I buy on the exchange?"
I expect these to be the possible answers:
1) "I buy equipment to help level up my character."
2) "I buy stuff that people crafted or upgraded with dilithium,"
3) "I buy lockbox keys."
4) "I buy stuff that people got out of lockboxes."
5) "I buy tech upgrades and or MKII weapons to upgrade with tech upgrades."
What is missing from this list is anything that a new f2p player is going to have to sell. For new characters the Economy of STO is limited to getting EC from Cryptic, and giving it back to cryptic. There is limited to no flow between us. Only when a player reaches extreme end game, after getting fleet and rep gear do they start trading in significant amounts with other players, so the majority of EC that moves in STO is just flowing between those who spend dilithium/zen on things to sell to each other, with a few exceptions for those who make STO their full time job (I am looking at you Ratty).
I don't consider this to be a good thing. New players will stay with the game longer if they are having fun, and a little RNG luck to give them something they could trade to the oldies for a leg up will help with that.
On the other hand hitting up the exchange to look for things someone on the forum recommended for their build, only to see that it costs three months worth of their EC income is going to contribute to driving them away.
The sad irony is that this is exactly what the Elite Honor Guard/M.A.C.O/Omega outfits used to be. But casual players with severe entitlement issues whined so much about not getting them(because they didn't want to put any effort into earning them) that Cryptic introduced the reputation system instead that just made them another buyable fashion statement.
I myself am one of those no-lifers that originally spent months grinding for a full Elite Honor Guard outfit, and the euphoria and rush of emotions I felt when I finally got the final piece was like nothing I've ever experienced before or since in STO. The potential loot drop has always been half the fun of killing a boss in MMORPG's and RPG's.
Hey Temo... I streamlined it quite a bit since I got started.
I'm not burning out like I used to.
The game also locks too much of the good consoles and traits behind lockboxes what they could do is start to add weapons, consoles and traits that are on the same level as the lockbox one but only obtanable from super rare crafting blueprints that drop from in game content and are 1 time use this will bolster the econemy using items obtained through actual gameplay and that are rare and useful thus creating demand this also adds to the gameplay loop which is needed in my opinion.
And why did they move the Breen Space set to some obscure corner of the mission journal? With only a tiny bit of "tweaking" that could be a very nice end game (budget) Space Set for someone, with unique visuals to got with it.
In fact I think there is only one mission in the game that gives a MkXIII item, and the rest are MkX to mkXII
However on the issue of EC value, let's not forget the prevalence of stupidity and/or laziness. Can you believe that people are paying 8000+ EC for Ensign BoFF manuals on the exchange?!? The same manuals you can buy from a vendor for what 200EC? L-M-F-A-O
And then of course there is the Bot Farmers, who see an opportunity and flood the market with say Specializtion Training Manuals, that were selling for 250-350K plus, because you had to have a Captain with a high enough specialization skill to even craft them, then suddenly someone is selling dozens upon dozens of them for 50K each ... Nope not suspicious at all.
The game economy definetly needs actual hands on supervision, but I doubt Cryptic would bother, as they seem content to let the player base (and gold seller site bots) make a mess of it constantly.
Plus, the players with EC 'play the market' and jack up prices on everyone else. Be nice if there was some good way to make all Exchange sales become BoA. That way players couldn't just re-post things just make profit at everyone's expense. I'd guess that would have horrible consequences I can't think of,
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Would love to see the exchange/trading have transaction fees(5%~) as well.. but.. I can hear the drama-flames roaring already at the mere mention of it.
I know! Been a couple times I bought a manual from a vendor to find I really didn't need it. Go to the Exchange and post it for 8k and its sold w/in a couple hours. People either don't know about the vendors or are too lazy to run there vs saving 7.8k.
Much like real life, people who can afford it often pay to have things delivered rather than fetch everything themselves.
Reps were a measure to eliminate the hell of obtaining gear representing the next step up in player progression from independent random probability drops, not mollify "whiny fan entitlement" with respect to a few customization unlocks. There's also no direct way of buying reputation items. They require time spent in queues/zones/patrols/events, which is now consistently moderated by fixed requirements (no lucking out for your bragging rights), for the requisite marks and tier progress.
And per the topic: just about everything you do in STO grants dilithium. Queues also provide R+D materials. Both can be used to generate a sizable income capable of buying just about anything from the exchange (save promo ships, realistically) through casual gameplay and careful saving. Add to that: admiralty (both EC and Dil), VR doffs from fleet marks, and the odd VR tac console or weapon. STO doesn't need to become more rewarding with respect to a single currency, as direct adjustments of this type wouldn't increase the purchasing power of most players but instead result in inflation.
Deeper structural modifications are necessary to change economic relationships, and incidentally this has already been done in STO through the crafting revamp and R+D system (making most players capable of producing items of interest to top earners, pulling EC down the ranks. Ie. upgrades) as well as adding dilithium to just about every activity in the game. STO offers a lot of upward mobility, provided you recognize that it has an industrial producer-consumer economy (which is pretty darn flexible and something that should be a hell of a lot more accessible to players than the alternative serfdom of "to earn, all you need to do is grind your brain out for direct gameplay payouts.")
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Do I want to see special rare drops? maybe. the only gear rare drops i'd be interested in would have to be gold quality. maybe vanity costumes would work if they were special enough.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."