As I've already said, either an aceton assimilator console and/or a turret. Drop them in the middle, then go about disabling the sensors. AAs, make short work of bees and you can have up to two of them active at any one time.
Attack Pattern Beta 1 is for Tac BO's and is not Captain specific.
It's also lieutenant level so can't be used on shuttles.
It's a mission that is actually supposed to be challenging, as the vast majority are not, and requires some thought, tactics and Omni weapons. That is all.
You have to consider that newbies are not likely to have omni weapons nore best equipment. They may not even find missions where you could get the gear that'd help most with this mission to be all that doable.
There is a fine line between "challenging" and "punishing". When players are finding it such you have to have a 2 million EC weapon, are getting one shot by a lucky torpedo and generally unapproachable with 4-5 days grinding EC on tours of the galaxy ect just to be able to do ONE mission I say the line has been crossed. It's a massive difficulty spike. It doesn't help that the game doesn't teach things like the value of shield resistances(especially vs high damage torps including the 30-80k untargetable photon torp or similar) or consoles so when they get that high they hit a brick wall.
Seems to me that, with the scaling broken as it is, that double exp is more of a curse than a blessing and we are seeing people pay for it. Leveling faster = bad in this situation.
That said I have seen some good suggestions for someone in a situation like this where they have to do this mission at 65. Seems to me that doing the breen missions is probably better done early and as efficiently as possible rather than putting them off so they are done at a lower level. Team up with someone who has a more powerful level 65 fit-for-combat setup.
It's not broken at all. Just focus on the Worker Bees. If people are struggle with surviving it, equip an Armour Console AND Hazard Emitters.
And how many new players are going to have the best neutronium armor console for that? Or mk14+ weapons when they don't drop anymore past 50 as some have said? This game has become punishing past 50 end of story on that. Besides not really teaching players tools to deal with things, it stops rewarding those tools and expects them to grind tons of dilithium and energy credits to upgrade things. Equipment less than 14 is unfit for combat, just as well say ships with mk12 stuff just as well be made of cardboard.
It's not just this mission which feels unapproachable. I was just going through "Minescape" and besides the strange fact the game forced me into using Tovan when I'd have rather used a much better equipped science officer I had, I was seeing cooper do 500-800 damage/hit with his main antiproton attack. I got killed inspite religious use of phasic shroud and nanite health monitor and as many defenses as I could muster. I feel there was no way I could have done it better, and that is what angers and annoys me about this game and the scaling at 65. In fact I am honestly seriously reconsidering touching this game anymore, it does nothing but fill me with rage as it's not fun anymore.
And course, I took in both attempts to get through the mission 100% deathless(from last checkpoint, I'm not satisfied with getting through anything after a respawn); torpedo(undodgable+untargetable one) taking me from full hull and shields to 20-30% health in space combat(so I tried to let voyager do most of the work) and that was with emergency power to shields 3 up. How are people expecting newcomers to stick around this game when the game does this to them with no warning or telegraphing routinely?
In fact it feels that near every other mission once you hit 65 is an unfair slog thats just insanely hard for no good reasons. Even with a very good bridge officer setup and stacked to the defenses it feels like without being loaded with max gear the game just sucks.
Torpedoes near or totally one-shotting the t-5 ships the newbies are likely to be flying, some bosses in ground combat one shotting you and even the bridge officers repeatedly, enemies not really following the rules, players not given enough tools to work with at first(newbies aren't given any kind of training manuals for useful bridge off skills and only have tour the galaxy for energy credits to get the bridge officer abilities that are important nore told where to get sufficient EC to buy those training manuals)....
This game consequently feels punishing. Like cryptic is trying to defeat players and make them lose rather than challenge them, which is why I shared the video above. That applies to everything when any amount of difficulty is apparent. Cryptic needs to learn that, they should be WANTING players to succeed inspite any difficulty, rather than simply keeping them from succeeding.
Also a player shouldn't have to respawn to beat a mission. That just makes it feel "cheap". Like theres no way you could win fairly so the game is allowing you to cheat through it. That isn't good.
If you want to give yourself a self-imposed challenge to do things without respawn, go right ahead, but don't come here to complain if you can't handle it.
Maybe you need to learn how not to control how others play. And maybe read the rest of the post.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Read a post on reddit from a developer, though this was nearly two months ago, they are planning on nerfing NPC damage in missions, so they are aware that the scaling is broken and generally making missions a pain to play on normal mode for newcomers.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
As I've already said, either an aceton assimilator console and/or a turret. Drop them in the middle, then go about disabling the sensors. AAs, make short work of bees and you can have up to two of them active at any one time.
Attack Pattern Beta 1 is for Tac BO's and is not Captain specific.
Yeah, I thought about that after I left the house. My bad. My reading comprehension apparently wasn't functioning.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
As I've already said, either an aceton assimilator console and/or a turret. Drop them in the middle, then go about disabling the sensors. AAs, make short work of bees and you can have up to two of them active at any one time.
Attack Pattern Beta 1 is for Tac BO's and is not Captain specific.
It's also lieutenant level so can't be used on shuttles.
Yeah, this is what my brain should have been telling me lol.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
I just did it with VR mk X beam array, Photon torpedo. I used a Flier, so i had sci ST1 and tac ts1. between that, a neutronium armor, a phaser relay and the point defense console, I had no problems at all. the toom was a level 55 engineer
And how many new players are going to have the best neutronium armor console for that? Or mk14+ weapons when they don't drop anymore past 50 as some have said? This game has become punishing past 50 end of story on that. Besides not really teaching players tools to deal with things, it stops rewarding those tools and expects them to grind tons of dilithium and energy credits to upgrade things. Equipment less than 14 is unfit for combat, just as well say ships with mk12 stuff just as well be made of cardboard.
Dude, you just said your freind is in a fleet. NO ONE in your fleet crafts? hell, we are not in a fleet but if @Annemarie30 needs something I craft her a VR mk II (several actually) so she can get at least a VR mk 12 I can and do do it for pretty much anyone who asks. I hooked up @nixie50 a couple months ago with a warp core that had W>A
if your fleet isn't doing that for new toons automatically, then sorry, but your fleet sucks.
I just did it with VR mk X beam array, Photon torpedo. I used a Flier, so i had sci ST1 and tac ts1. between that, a neutronium armor, a phaser relay and the point defense console, I had no problems at all. the toom was a level 55 engineer
And how many new players are going to have the best neutronium armor console for that? Or mk14+ weapons when they don't drop anymore past 50 as some have said? This game has become punishing past 50 end of story on that. Besides not really teaching players tools to deal with things, it stops rewarding those tools and expects them to grind tons of dilithium and energy credits to upgrade things. Equipment less than 14 is unfit for combat, just as well say ships with mk12 stuff just as well be made of cardboard.
Dude, you just said your freind is in a fleet. NO ONE in your fleet crafts? hell, we are not in a fleet but if @Annemarie30 needs something I craft her a VR mk II (several actually) so she can get at least a VR mk 12 I can and do do it for pretty much anyone who asks. I hooked up @nixie50 a couple months ago with a warp core that had W>A
if your fleet isn't doing that for new toons automatically, then sorry, but your fleet sucks.
Yeah, me too if anyone who knows me needs something, I'll craft it for them. I do it for my best friend all the time when she needs starter gear for a planned new toon. I've crafted up some stuff for her for a new one she's planning and the stuff is in our little fleet bank. Since she and I are the only members online who are in it, I know no one will take the stuff.
So if anyone who knows me sees me ingame and needs something, just ask.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
I just did it with VR mk X beam array, Photon torpedo. I used a Flier, so i had sci ST1 and tac ts1. between that, a neutronium armor, a phaser relay and the point defense console, I had no problems at all. the toom was a level 55 engineer
And how many new players are going to have the best neutronium armor console for that? Or mk14+ weapons when they don't drop anymore past 50 as some have said? This game has become punishing past 50 end of story on that. Besides not really teaching players tools to deal with things, it stops rewarding those tools and expects them to grind tons of dilithium and energy credits to upgrade things. Equipment less than 14 is unfit for combat, just as well say ships with mk12 stuff just as well be made of cardboard.
Dude, you just said your freind is in a fleet. NO ONE in your fleet crafts? hell, we are not in a fleet but if @Annemarie30 needs something I craft her a VR mk II (several actually) so she can get at least a VR mk 12 I can and do do it for pretty much anyone who asks. I hooked up @nixie50 a couple months ago with a warp core that had W>A
if your fleet isn't doing that for new toons automatically, then sorry, but your fleet sucks.
He was using MK12 stuff more than likely and someone did help him with that mission, and we've helped him with gear and bridge officer abilities to use to. Even with all the help we gave him he still struggled vs breen.
I'm sorry but, don't make this about my fleet and don't go arguing for elite gear all the time every time someone mentions this game is punishing.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
I was quoting YOU when you said a newbie can't expect to have good gear. it's a disconnect that someone in a fleet would not have good gear. that leaves that you are contradicting yourself and trying to make this sound far more dire than reality. with that, I'm dropping from this drama queen act.
Conversely I don't like a mission I survive the first time.
> @laughinxan said:
> warpangel wrote: »
>
> laughinxan wrote: »
>
> leemwatson wrote: »
>
> laughinxan wrote: »
>
> leemwatson wrote: »
>
> It's a mission that is actually supposed to be challenging, as the vast majority are not, and requires some thought, tactics and Omni weapons. That is all.
>
>
>
>
> You have to consider that newbies are not likely to have omni weapons nore best equipment. They may not even find missions where you could get the gear that'd help most with this mission to be all that doable.
>
> There is a fine line between "challenging" and "punishing". When players are finding it such you have to have a 2 million EC weapon, are getting one shot by a lucky torpedo and generally unapproachable with 4-5 days grinding EC on tours of the galaxy ect just to be able to do ONE mission I say the line has been crossed. It's a massive difficulty spike. It doesn't help that the game doesn't teach things like the value of shield resistances(especially vs high damage torps including the 30-80k untargetable photon torp or similar) or consoles so when they get that high they hit a brick wall.
>
> Seems to me that, with the scaling broken as it is, that double exp is more of a curse than a blessing and we are seeing people pay for it. Leveling faster = bad in this situation.
>
> That said I have seen some good suggestions for someone in a situation like this where they have to do this mission at 65. Seems to me that doing the breen missions is probably better done early and as efficiently as possible rather than putting them off so they are done at a lower level. Team up with someone who has a more powerful level 65 fit-for-combat setup.
>
>
>
>
> It's not broken at all. Just focus on the Worker Bees. If people are struggle with surviving it, equip an Armour Console AND Hazard Emitters.
>
>
>
>
> And how many new players are going to have the best neutronium armor console for that? Or mk14+ weapons when they don't drop anymore past 50 as some have said? This game has become punishing past 50 end of story on that. Besides not really teaching players tools to deal with things, it stops rewarding those tools and expects them to grind tons of dilithium and energy credits to upgrade things. Equipment less than 14 is unfit for combat, just as well say ships with mk12 stuff just as well be made of cardboard.
>
> It's not just this mission which feels unapproachable. I was just going through "Minescape" and besides the strange fact the game forced me into using Tovan when I'd have rather used a much better equipped science officer I had, I was seeing cooper do 500-800 damage/hit with his main antiproton attack. I got killed inspite religious use of phasic shroud and nanite health monitor and as many defenses as I could muster. I feel there was no way I could have done it better, and that is what angers and annoys me about this game and the scaling at 65. In fact I am honestly seriously reconsidering touching this game anymore, it does nothing but fill me with rage as it's not fun anymore.
>
> And course, I took in both attempts to get through the mission 100% deathless(from last checkpoint, I'm not satisfied with getting through anything after a respawn); torpedo(undodgable+untargetable one) taking me from full hull and shields to 20-30% health in space combat(so I tried to let voyager do most of the work) and that was with emergency power to shields 3 up. How are people expecting newcomers to stick around this game when the game does this to them with no warning or telegraphing routinely?
>
> In fact it feels that near every other mission once you hit 65 is an unfair slog thats just insanely hard for no good reasons. Even with a very good bridge officer setup and stacked to the defenses it feels like without being loaded with max gear the game just sucks.
>
> Torpedoes near or totally one-shotting the t-5 ships the newbies are likely to be flying, some bosses in ground combat one shotting you and even the bridge officers repeatedly, enemies not really following the rules, players not given enough tools to work with at first(newbies aren't given any kind of training manuals for useful bridge off skills and only have tour the galaxy for energy credits to get the bridge officer abilities that are important nore told where to get sufficient EC to buy those training manuals)....
>
> This game consequently feels punishing. Like cryptic is trying to defeat players and make them lose rather than challenge them, which is why I shared the video above. That applies to everything when any amount of difficulty is apparent. Cryptic needs to learn that, they should be WANTING players to succeed inspite any difficulty, rather than simply keeping them from succeeding.
>
> Also a player shouldn't have to respawn to beat a mission. That just makes it feel "cheap". Like theres no way you could win fairly so the game is allowing you to cheat through it. That isn't good.
>
>
>
> If you want to give yourself a self-imposed challenge to do things without respawn, go right ahead, but don't come here to complain if you can't handle it.
>
>
>
>
> Maybe you need to learn how not to control how others play. And maybe read the rest of the post.
He isn't trying to control anyone, and he did read the whole post, it was drivel, this section was all that approached a point.
Drivel? Are you serious? Dude, you guys are missing-the-point-entirely. Your all(refering to the try hards here) acting like everyone shouldn't be able to solo or have any fun at all unless they all have mk14-15 gear and the ultimate builds that would have taken thousands of hours to acquire just so they can solo normal difficulty again.
Have you guys played level 65 missions with gear a newbie would have Like mk12 and maybe an assortment of damage consoles(none fleet, your looking at 50k fleet credits and 12k+ dilithhium for each console), no rep traits and only bridge officer abilities you could acquire with less than 300k EC? It's a very different story.
And how many of you have actually watched that video I shared? If you haven't watched it you have no business discussing difficulty in games. Your part of the problem people are having if anything; many players if you talk to them in game, state regularly that elitists are making it unapproachable. Extra credits is actually very pro-hard games, but even they have issues with people acting like they should be the only ones having fun in games(in fact, they even call elitists the bane of hard games and in a much civil manner than I do in this sentence).
For the record: We help everyone we can and heck I even purchased some high end stuff for the newbie struggling. When people ask for help we provide. But we all seem to agree this game is to hard on new players at level 65 and generally unapproachable. In fact I bet many people saying this game sucks right now are doing so cause of how it's broken scaling is making it this unapproachable. New players cannot get into it at 65 without a lot of help from players. I nearly gave up on this game before I entered the fleet i'm in. I want to love this game but honestly I'm slowly starting to think it sucks for how hard it is to get into at 65 for new players. And it was especially fun for me levels 1-60 and I was able to get through everything deathless(if I died I just exited map and respawned, unless a bridge off could res me then it was a pass).
Even dark souls is more approachable for new players than this and it's legitimately a very hard game. But it's praised as a classic because it doesn't do the kind of things STO tends to at 60-65.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
I was quoting YOU when you said a newbie can't expect to have good gear. it's a disconnect that someone in a fleet would not have good gear. that leaves that you are contradicting yourself and trying to make this sound far more dire than reality. with that, I'm dropping from this drama queen act.
Sounds to me that someone here is trying to just attack me for the post I wrote which I thought was entirely reasonable rather than looking at the problem of a game being unapproachable for people with mk12 equipment across the board which is where even in a fleet thats the best they'd have at first. And demanding everyone upgrade with tens of thousands of dilithium and hundreds of thousands of fleet credits they may not have for months before actually, I dunno, enjoying the game on normal again.
Or how much time it takes to get the fleet credits(50,000) and dilithium for the damage consoles. Heck armor consoles go from 12,500 to 50k fleet credits. Have you guys grinded that recently from no fleet credits on a fresh account?
Or how even mk12 weapon needs around 5k dilithium to upgrade to 13, 10k+ for 13-14 and 14-15.
I guess apparently people are not supposed to have any fun if they don't have mk14-15 and have spent 700k fleet credits on gear when playing normal mode *roll eyes*.
Starting to think honestly we got a serious troll problem here.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
As I've already said, either an aceton assimilator console and/or a turret. Drop them in the middle, then go about disabling the sensors. AAs, make short work of bees and you can have up to two of them active at any one time.
Attack Pattern Beta 1 is for Tac BO's and is not Captain specific.
It's also lieutenant level so can't be used on shuttles.
Yeah, this is what my brain should have been telling me lol.
Although it has been quite a while since I have flown a shuttle. I think there is a shuttle or fighter with a Lt. universal.
any mission can be beaten with proper tactics and a basic setup. For my shuttle build I use the kentari missiles and a spread on them. kentari missiles can fire stupid fast compared to some of the other weapons. I've also surprisingly gotten alot of mileage out of the theta radiation console on my shuttle. the big flaw I see is that people build their shuttles like full sized ships instead of like small fighters, because that's essentially what they are. biggest question I would ask is what exactly you're doing and how you're flying in the mission.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
I'm absolutely serious. You are also wrong in every possible way. I do not have 1 single character out of 20 characters that has "everything mk xiv or xv", not one. I do not have any characters with all Epic gear, not one. I am a non-parsing player, meaning I do not measure my DPS at all, nor do I min/max. My builds are intentionally sub-optimal and off-meta. Maybe before sliging insults you should find out who your talking about.
Hmmmm, news flash no one has entitlements to there word being believable based on some perceived reputation. Also just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them wrong. Think your trolling to in fact to make a claim like 'this' and claiming to be stomping everything here with sub-par gear. Whats next you gonna tell me you smash everything with a tier 1 ship no reps on 65? Heard it before to....
I'm not just talking things like dps, i'm talking about things like bosses one shotting people with torpedoes(non targetables like normal photon torps) even with shields and hull maxed. Or taking long periods of time to destroy while they also do that. It's a feel I am talking about with regards to enemy scaling at 60-65 which even devs have said is broken. If devs are saying that then I really don't see why people would be trying to argue with me.
And honestly? Thinking these forums aren't worth any discussion if people have to attack someone elses fleet rather than discussing the problem.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Delta grindings issue was they cranked up the xp required for each level, added 10 levels plus the 100+ spec levels and didn't add the content to cover even a single level without umpteen argala or japori runs nevermind the whole the 50-60 part.
The knee jerk reaction to that was the blink and you miss it joke that is 60-65 before it goes back to the more moderate pace of speccing up.
As far as gear being "only" MK12 goes, I know that you can complete every mission with relative ease using just MK12 purples. Upgrading is handy but not really needed at all until you go into advanced STF's. I have one character on each account I have upgraded gear on and some where I've run a slew of missions without traits after the games done its random unslotting.
The general theme of MMO's and gear progression is that you upgrade gear to do higher content but that's not something that exists in STO, the gear level goes up but there's no progression in missions or whatever that suggest it's a good idea. Just peer pressure.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
any mission can be beaten with proper tactics and a basic setup. For my shuttle build I use the kentari missiles and a spread on them. kentari missiles can fire stupid fast compared to some of the other weapons. I've also surprisingly gotten alot of mileage out of the theta radiation console on my shuttle. the big flaw I see is that people build their shuttles like full sized ships instead of like small fighters, because that's essentially what they are. biggest question I would ask is what exactly you're doing and how you're flying in the mission.
Some people have mentioned some shuttle specific tactics earlier in the thread like using breen cluster torps
> @laughinxan said:
> azrael605 wrote: »
>
> @laughinxan
>
> I'm absolutely serious. You are also wrong in every possible way. I do not have 1 single character out of 20 characters that has "everything mk xiv or xv", not one. I do not have any characters with all Epic gear, not one. I am a non-parsing player, meaning I do not measure my DPS at all, nor do I min/max. My builds are intentionally sub-optimal and off-meta. Maybe before sliging insults you should find out who your talking about.
>
>
>
>
> Hmmmm, news flash no one has entitlements to there word being believable based on some perceived reputation. Also just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them wrong. Think your trolling to in fact to make a claim like 'this' and claiming to be stomping everything here with sub-par gear. Whats next you gonna tell me you smash everything with a tier 1 ship no reps on 65? Heard it before to....
>
> I'm not just talking things like dps, i'm talking about things like bosses one shotting people with torpedoes(non targetables like normal photon torps) even with shields and hull maxed. Or taking long periods of time to destroy while they also do that. It's a feel I am talking about with regards to enemy scaling at 60-65 which even devs have said is broken. If devs are saying that then I really don't see why people would be trying to argue with me.
>
> And honestly? Thinking these forums aren't worth any discussion if people have to attack someone elses fleet rather than discussing the problem.
I do not troll, it isn't worth wasting my time for. Everything I state I can do, I do on a daily basis. Currently for example I am running my character Sugar Bear, his new Narendra class is sporting 3 Herald AP beams up from at VR MK XII, the Crystalline AP torp at Rare MK XIV, a MK XII VR Assimilated Space set, Obelisk core at MK XII, Crafted AP Omni, Ancient AP omni, KCB, and Dyson Rep torp, all at VR MK XII. For consoles I have the Crystalline matrix, and the new one that came with the Narendra, a plasma exploder, exotic particle exciter, conductive rcs, assimilated module, 3 tac exploiters +ap, and something else I'm going to dump when I move to the fleet Narendra. I have been running story missions, BZs, and queues, and I'm certainly not invincible, but on a capture point in the Badlands where I died 3 times I took highest reward for the point. I have seen nothing at all to make me believe there is some kind of major problem with normal difficulty, my rate of deaths per mission is no better or worse than it ever has been.
I have not been one shotted by any boss in any mission, I have died, I have been down to 1 percent hull and clawed my way back only to die a minute later, but I have not been one shotted at all.
You miss the point entirely here you go again going over your uber gear setup with weapons newbies aren't going to have available. Assimilated space requires rep 5 omega. Crystaline AP torp requires the event for phoenix boxes. Tac exploiters that of course are going to take a lot of fleet credits etcetra and pretty much gear that'd have required events 3-4 or however many months into the future. This is why I think your just trolling and I think i'm done here. Your just not getting it and your to detached from those just starting out to get it.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
> @laughinxan said:
> azrael605 wrote: »
>
> @laughinxan
>
> I'm absolutely serious. You are also wrong in every possible way. I do not have 1 single character out of 20 characters that has "everything mk xiv or xv", not one. I do not have any characters with all Epic gear, not one. I am a non-parsing player, meaning I do not measure my DPS at all, nor do I min/max. My builds are intentionally sub-optimal and off-meta. Maybe before sliging insults you should find out who your talking about.
>
>
>
>
> Hmmmm, news flash no one has entitlements to there word being believable based on some perceived reputation. Also just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them wrong. Think your trolling to in fact to make a claim like 'this' and claiming to be stomping everything here with sub-par gear. Whats next you gonna tell me you smash everything with a tier 1 ship no reps on 65? Heard it before to....
>
> I'm not just talking things like dps, i'm talking about things like bosses one shotting people with torpedoes(non targetables like normal photon torps) even with shields and hull maxed. Or taking long periods of time to destroy while they also do that. It's a feel I am talking about with regards to enemy scaling at 60-65 which even devs have said is broken. If devs are saying that then I really don't see why people would be trying to argue with me.
>
> And honestly? Thinking these forums aren't worth any discussion if people have to attack someone elses fleet rather than discussing the problem.
I do not troll, it isn't worth wasting my time for. Everything I state I can do, I do on a daily basis. Currently for example I am running my character Sugar Bear, his new Narendra class is sporting 3 Herald AP beams up from at VR MK XII, the Crystalline AP torp at Rare MK XIV, a MK XII VR Assimilated Space set, Obelisk core at MK XII, Crafted AP Omni, Ancient AP omni, KCB, and Dyson Rep torp, all at VR MK XII. For consoles I have the Crystalline matrix, and the new one that came with the Narendra, a plasma exploder, exotic particle exciter, conductive rcs, assimilated module, 3 tac exploiters +ap, and something else I'm going to dump when I move to the fleet Narendra. I have been running story missions, BZs, and queues, and I'm certainly not invincible, but on a capture point in the Badlands where I died 3 times I took highest reward for the point. I have seen nothing at all to make me believe there is some kind of major problem with normal difficulty, my rate of deaths per mission is no better or worse than it ever has been.
I have not been one shotted by any boss in any mission, I have died, I have been down to 1 percent hull and clawed my way back only to die a minute later, but I have not been one shotted at all.
Talking about gear that newbies won't have access to doesn't help your arguement. In fact all you've done is proven how disconnected you are from what I'm really talking about, which is the punishing difficulty that newbies have to overcome that can just drive them away before they have time to get all the stuff you mention(or anything comparable). Lets not forget crystalline matrix and antiproton torps are phoenix box and we don't know when that'll come up.
So you have a very good setup, congrats, but it's still horribly disconnected with what newcomers would have at hitting 60. Your fairly rich so you get to quickly equip every character with combat-worthy setups right off the bat at 60-65. And most of the stuff you mentioned is not stuff people can just trade with others it's bind on pickup. I think i remember extra credits pointing THIS out as a problem to recently. Your used to having all of this stuff. Newbies ain't.
It's hard for me to not think your trolling because you bring up all this actually high quality gear thats tied to specific events. Just because it's not upgrade doesn't mean it's cheap or easy to acquire(I can only name like, a few weapons in that which you can get from missions). Think i'm just not gonna talk here your to detached from the starting experience you don't even know what it's like anymore. You take it for granted.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
This is what I talk about when I speak of detachment veterans have, although in this case its main focus is why devs shouldn't just hire veteran gamers. It's also something to think about; how used are you all to the things in this game that to others starting out seem well, clunky?
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Missions continue to issue the same Ml XI/XII **** they've been issuing before, while the gear standards shoot up to XIV and XV. This is, obviously, not really gonna cut it.
When purple Mk XII was the best you could get, missions/queues would drop Mk XII gear too (sometimes purple too). Then Geko got greedy, and, not wanting to kill their Golden Upgrade Goose, left drops at purple Mk XII max (not counting AoY boons). That's always been a mite weird. As before, end-gear should be dropping again from endgame missions/queues. As it is now, everything that drops is just re-engineering fodder: nice for those who already have everything, and just like to fine-tune their stuff, but not so nice towards the new player.
It was the only mission i jumped / gave up when i was leveling my main, back in 2015.... it was very frustrating...
i only came back after i finished everything else and got better gear
I'm absolutely serious. You are also wrong in every possible way. I do not have 1 single character out of 20 characters that has "everything mk xiv or xv", not one. I do not have any characters with all Epic gear, not one. I am a non-parsing player, meaning I do not measure my DPS at all, nor do I min/max. My builds are intentionally sub-optimal and off-meta. Maybe before sliging insults you should find out who your talking about.
I'm absolutely serious. You are also wrong in every possible way. I do not have 1 single character, out of 3, that doesn't have "everything at xv", not one. I do not have any characters with non-all Epic gear, not one. I am a parsing player, meaning I do measure my DPS, and try and min/max. And my builds are only unintentionally sub-optimal.
The scaling wouldn't be too bad if the levelling pace was a tad slower so that you hit missions at the level they were intended for[...]
I think you nailed the answer. Scaling issues aside, from streamlining the leveling process to drastically cutting the price of large xp boosts to offering instant level 65 toons to having a low level queue without any cool down there is a double edged sword to a new player leveling too fast.
Players used to hit this mission at a far lower level where it's doable (might take a few tries) with stock shuttle gear, 2 or 3 uncommon consoles, shield batts, Hazard Emitters, and spamming the distribute shields button that you dragged to your tray.
The scaling wouldn't be too bad if the levelling pace was a tad slower so that you hit missions at the level they were intended for[...]
I think you nailed the answer. Scaling issues aside, from streamlining the leveling process to drastically cutting the price of large xp boosts to offering instant level 65 toons to having a low level queue without any cool down there is a double edged sword to a new player leveling too fast.
Players used to hit this mission at a far lower level where it's doable (might take a few tries) with stock shuttle gear, 2 or 3 uncommon consoles, shield batts, Hazard Emitters, and spamming the distribute shields button that you dragged to your tray.
It's still entirely doable with that at 65, I just tested it on the first page. Only default/random drop gear, nothing over mk12 green, all high-level/premium perks disabled. I didn't even use shield batteries because consumables are icky.
Missions continue to issue the same Ml XI/XII **** they've been issuing before, while the gear standards shoot up to XIV and XV. This is, obviously, not really gonna cut it.
When purple Mk XII was the best you could get, missions/queues would drop Mk XII gear too (sometimes purple too). Then Geko got greedy, and, not wanting to kill their Golden Upgrade Goose, left drops at purple Mk XII max (not counting AoY boons). That's always been a mite weird. As before, end-gear should be dropping again from endgame missions/queues. As it is now, everything that drops is just re-engineering fodder: nice for those who already have everything, and just like to fine-tune their stuff, but not so nice towards the new player.
100% true!!!
In every MMO I've been playing in the last 18 years, every time the devs raised the Char-Level they also raised the Equipment-Level from the Items dropping from those NPCs. That way the new players where always able to keep up with the veteran players and didn’t have to grind/farm longer distances, every time the Level-Cap was raised.
In my opinion it is time for the STO-Devs to do the same as soon as possible. Their *golden upgrade goose* won’t be touched by that, since players still need to upgrade stuff to be able to play end-game content like adv. STFs and so on.
Maybe you need to learn how not to control how others play. And maybe read the rest of the post.
Short version: This is a "git gud" moment, and people are trying to tell you how to git gud.
Your attempts at describing the nature of the problem indicate that you're doing things pretty much the hardest way you can with predictable results. It's very true that newbies have problems with this, it's always been that way.
#1 thing about shuttle missions: NEVER USE THE DEFAULT GARBAGE GEAR! Seriously, it's about equal to the common junk gear you get on ships. Honestly the idea that a newbie doesn't have good gear is believable... it's also true that it's part of what defines a newbie is that they don't know how to play the game well. "Git gud" is about learning to play the game. It doesn't mean becoming a top-tier player, it means becoming good enough to not get ganked by random NPCs in easy-mode.
Also that torp hit you claim is a one-shot... pretty sure it's a HY torp not a normal torp. But HY Quantums(either that or photon, not sure which the Jem'hadar NPCs use) are non-targetable. Using brace for impact as soon as you enter combat will probably cut the damage enough to keep it from doing significant damage. Purple 12 Neutronium armor also goes a long way in shuttle missions.
Maybe you need to learn how not to control how others play. And maybe read the rest of the post.
Short version: This is a "git gud" moment, and people are trying to tell you how to git gud.
Your attempts at describing the nature of the problem indicate that you're doing things pretty much the hardest way you can with predictable results. It's very true that newbies have problems with this, it's always been that way.
#1 thing about shuttle missions: NEVER USE THE DEFAULT GARBAGE GEAR! Seriously, it's about equal to the common junk gear you get on ships. Honestly the idea that a newbie doesn't have good gear is believable... it's also true that it's part of what defines a newbie is that they don't know how to play the game well. "Git gud" is about learning to play the game. It doesn't mean becoming a top-tier player, it means becoming good enough to not get ganked by random NPCs in easy-mode.
Also that torp hit you claim is a one-shot... pretty sure it's a HY torp not a normal torp. But HY Quantums(either that or photon, not sure which the Jem'hadar NPCs use) are non-targetable. Using brace for impact as soon as you enter combat will probably cut the damage enough to keep it from doing significant damage. Purple 12 Neutronium armor also goes a long way in shuttle missions.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you can forget about the highlighted part. I’ve been trying to play other missions with NPC-Enemies hitting me with Quantum -, Photon -, Chroniton – and Polaron Torpedos. It was always the same. Even with all Defence-Skills ready and used I got blown out of the sky with one or two shots. And just in case - I am not talking about a Shuttle, but about a big Ship here!
Just take a look at those two threads on reddit – Thread 1 // Thread 2.
There a dev stated that there are problems with the damage coming from NPCs, that they are investigating it and are applying changes. Further more you’ll see that there are a lot of people complaining about the *too much damage* thing, because they all have problems playing the *NORMAL* content. Not only ONE but MANY DIFFERENT Missions, Episodes and STFs!!!
We have been looking into NPC difficulty post level 60. Our most recent patch resulted in NPCs on Normal having their critical severity reduced from 100% to 50%. These changes are going to come incrementally as we monitor the effects of each.
Please continue to leave feedback on the subject. Additionally, all extra information on your experiences is helpful.
What does that actually say about whether CulturedSoup thinks there is a current problem? (the crit scaling change only affects crits and only reduces the damage of crits by 25%)
Comments
Maybe you need to learn how not to control how others play. And maybe read the rest of the post.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Yeah, I thought about that after I left the house. My bad. My reading comprehension apparently wasn't functioning.
Yeah, this is what my brain should have been telling me lol.
Dude, you just said your freind is in a fleet. NO ONE in your fleet crafts? hell, we are not in a fleet but if @Annemarie30 needs something I craft her a VR mk II (several actually) so she can get at least a VR mk 12 I can and do do it for pretty much anyone who asks. I hooked up @nixie50 a couple months ago with a warp core that had W>A
if your fleet isn't doing that for new toons automatically, then sorry, but your fleet sucks.
Yeah, me too if anyone who knows me needs something, I'll craft it for them. I do it for my best friend all the time when she needs starter gear for a planned new toon. I've crafted up some stuff for her for a new one she's planning and the stuff is in our little fleet bank. Since she and I are the only members online who are in it, I know no one will take the stuff.
So if anyone who knows me sees me ingame and needs something, just ask.
He was using MK12 stuff more than likely and someone did help him with that mission, and we've helped him with gear and bridge officer abilities to use to. Even with all the help we gave him he still struggled vs breen.
I'm sorry but, don't make this about my fleet and don't go arguing for elite gear all the time every time someone mentions this game is punishing.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Drivel? Are you serious? Dude, you guys are missing-the-point-entirely. Your all(refering to the try hards here) acting like everyone shouldn't be able to solo or have any fun at all unless they all have mk14-15 gear and the ultimate builds that would have taken thousands of hours to acquire just so they can solo normal difficulty again.
Have you guys played level 65 missions with gear a newbie would have Like mk12 and maybe an assortment of damage consoles(none fleet, your looking at 50k fleet credits and 12k+ dilithhium for each console), no rep traits and only bridge officer abilities you could acquire with less than 300k EC? It's a very different story.
And how many of you have actually watched that video I shared? If you haven't watched it you have no business discussing difficulty in games. Your part of the problem people are having if anything; many players if you talk to them in game, state regularly that elitists are making it unapproachable. Extra credits is actually very pro-hard games, but even they have issues with people acting like they should be the only ones having fun in games(in fact, they even call elitists the bane of hard games and in a much civil manner than I do in this sentence).
For the record: We help everyone we can and heck I even purchased some high end stuff for the newbie struggling. When people ask for help we provide. But we all seem to agree this game is to hard on new players at level 65 and generally unapproachable. In fact I bet many people saying this game sucks right now are doing so cause of how it's broken scaling is making it this unapproachable. New players cannot get into it at 65 without a lot of help from players. I nearly gave up on this game before I entered the fleet i'm in. I want to love this game but honestly I'm slowly starting to think it sucks for how hard it is to get into at 65 for new players. And it was especially fun for me levels 1-60 and I was able to get through everything deathless(if I died I just exited map and respawned, unless a bridge off could res me then it was a pass).
Even dark souls is more approachable for new players than this and it's legitimately a very hard game. But it's praised as a classic because it doesn't do the kind of things STO tends to at 60-65.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Sounds to me that someone here is trying to just attack me for the post I wrote which I thought was entirely reasonable rather than looking at the problem of a game being unapproachable for people with mk12 equipment across the board which is where even in a fleet thats the best they'd have at first. And demanding everyone upgrade with tens of thousands of dilithium and hundreds of thousands of fleet credits they may not have for months before actually, I dunno, enjoying the game on normal again.
Or how much time it takes to get the fleet credits(50,000) and dilithium for the damage consoles. Heck armor consoles go from 12,500 to 50k fleet credits. Have you guys grinded that recently from no fleet credits on a fresh account?
Or how even mk12 weapon needs around 5k dilithium to upgrade to 13, 10k+ for 13-14 and 14-15.
I guess apparently people are not supposed to have any fun if they don't have mk14-15 and have spent 700k fleet credits on gear when playing normal mode *roll eyes*.
Starting to think honestly we got a serious troll problem here.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Although it has been quite a while since I have flown a shuttle. I think there is a shuttle or fighter with a Lt. universal.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Hmmmm, news flash no one has entitlements to there word being believable based on some perceived reputation. Also just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them wrong. Think your trolling to in fact to make a claim like 'this' and claiming to be stomping everything here with sub-par gear. Whats next you gonna tell me you smash everything with a tier 1 ship no reps on 65? Heard it before to....
I'm not just talking things like dps, i'm talking about things like bosses one shotting people with torpedoes(non targetables like normal photon torps) even with shields and hull maxed. Or taking long periods of time to destroy while they also do that. It's a feel I am talking about with regards to enemy scaling at 60-65 which even devs have said is broken. If devs are saying that then I really don't see why people would be trying to argue with me.
And honestly? Thinking these forums aren't worth any discussion if people have to attack someone elses fleet rather than discussing the problem.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Delta grindings issue was they cranked up the xp required for each level, added 10 levels plus the 100+ spec levels and didn't add the content to cover even a single level without umpteen argala or japori runs nevermind the whole the 50-60 part.
The knee jerk reaction to that was the blink and you miss it joke that is 60-65 before it goes back to the more moderate pace of speccing up.
As far as gear being "only" MK12 goes, I know that you can complete every mission with relative ease using just MK12 purples. Upgrading is handy but not really needed at all until you go into advanced STF's. I have one character on each account I have upgraded gear on and some where I've run a slew of missions without traits after the games done its random unslotting.
The general theme of MMO's and gear progression is that you upgrade gear to do higher content but that's not something that exists in STO, the gear level goes up but there's no progression in missions or whatever that suggest it's a good idea. Just peer pressure.
Some folks need to chill up in here.
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Some people have mentioned some shuttle specific tactics earlier in the thread like using breen cluster torps
You miss the point entirely here you go again going over your uber gear setup with weapons newbies aren't going to have available. Assimilated space requires rep 5 omega. Crystaline AP torp requires the event for phoenix boxes. Tac exploiters that of course are going to take a lot of fleet credits etcetra and pretty much gear that'd have required events 3-4 or however many months into the future. This is why I think your just trolling and I think i'm done here. Your just not getting it and your to detached from those just starting out to get it.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Talking about gear that newbies won't have access to doesn't help your arguement. In fact all you've done is proven how disconnected you are from what I'm really talking about, which is the punishing difficulty that newbies have to overcome that can just drive them away before they have time to get all the stuff you mention(or anything comparable). Lets not forget crystalline matrix and antiproton torps are phoenix box and we don't know when that'll come up.
So you have a very good setup, congrats, but it's still horribly disconnected with what newcomers would have at hitting 60. Your fairly rich so you get to quickly equip every character with combat-worthy setups right off the bat at 60-65. And most of the stuff you mentioned is not stuff people can just trade with others it's bind on pickup. I think i remember extra credits pointing THIS out as a problem to recently. Your used to having all of this stuff. Newbies ain't.
It's hard for me to not think your trolling because you bring up all this actually high quality gear thats tied to specific events. Just because it's not upgrade doesn't mean it's cheap or easy to acquire(I can only name like, a few weapons in that which you can get from missions). Think i'm just not gonna talk here your to detached from the starting experience you don't even know what it's like anymore. You take it for granted.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
This is what I talk about when I speak of detachment veterans have, although in this case its main focus is why devs shouldn't just hire veteran gamers. It's also something to think about; how used are you all to the things in this game that to others starting out seem well, clunky?
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
When purple Mk XII was the best you could get, missions/queues would drop Mk XII gear too (sometimes purple too). Then Geko got greedy, and, not wanting to kill their Golden Upgrade Goose, left drops at purple Mk XII max (not counting AoY boons). That's always been a mite weird. As before, end-gear should be dropping again from endgame missions/queues. As it is now, everything that drops is just re-engineering fodder: nice for those who already have everything, and just like to fine-tune their stuff, but not so nice towards the new player.
i only came back after i finished everything else and got better gear
Junae, Girquay, Meman'Ikan, Deanna, Elisa Flores, Nuno Espadinha, Heidi, Kolez, T'Vrell, Zarva, Vocan, Oeshi
I'm absolutely serious. You are also wrong in every possible way.
Players used to hit this mission at a far lower level where it's doable (might take a few tries) with stock shuttle gear, 2 or 3 uncommon consoles, shield batts, Hazard Emitters, and spamming the distribute shields button that you dragged to your tray.
There's nothing wrong with the mission.
100% true!!!
In every MMO I've been playing in the last 18 years, every time the devs raised the Char-Level they also raised the Equipment-Level from the Items dropping from those NPCs. That way the new players where always able to keep up with the veteran players and didn’t have to grind/farm longer distances, every time the Level-Cap was raised.
In my opinion it is time for the STO-Devs to do the same as soon as possible. Their *golden upgrade goose* won’t be touched by that, since players still need to upgrade stuff to be able to play end-game content like adv. STFs and so on.
Best regards
Your attempts at describing the nature of the problem indicate that you're doing things pretty much the hardest way you can with predictable results. It's very true that newbies have problems with this, it's always been that way.
#1 thing about shuttle missions: NEVER USE THE DEFAULT GARBAGE GEAR! Seriously, it's about equal to the common junk gear you get on ships. Honestly the idea that a newbie doesn't have good gear is believable... it's also true that it's part of what defines a newbie is that they don't know how to play the game well. "Git gud" is about learning to play the game. It doesn't mean becoming a top-tier player, it means becoming good enough to not get ganked by random NPCs in easy-mode.
Also that torp hit you claim is a one-shot... pretty sure it's a HY torp not a normal torp. But HY Quantums(either that or photon, not sure which the Jem'hadar NPCs use) are non-targetable. Using brace for impact as soon as you enter combat will probably cut the damage enough to keep it from doing significant damage. Purple 12 Neutronium armor also goes a long way in shuttle missions.
My character Tsin'xing
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you can forget about the highlighted part. I’ve been trying to play other missions with NPC-Enemies hitting me with Quantum -, Photon -, Chroniton – and Polaron Torpedos. It was always the same. Even with all Defence-Skills ready and used I got blown out of the sky with one or two shots. And just in case - I am not talking about a Shuttle, but about a big Ship here!
Just take a look at those two threads on reddit – Thread 1 // Thread 2.
There a dev stated that there are problems with the damage coming from NPCs, that they are investigating it and are applying changes. Further more you’ll see that there are a lot of people complaining about the *too much damage* thing, because they all have problems playing the *NORMAL* content. Not only ONE but MANY DIFFERENT Missions, Episodes and STFs!!!
Best regards
My character Tsin'xing
And again an example for *I've only read what I wanted to*
Because what about this…???
From here.
Best regards
My character Tsin'xing