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Foundry Challenge: Victory is Life

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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,378 Arc User
    baelrogh wrote: »
    Im still waiting for reviews. So far by my knowledge none has visited mission beside myself to give it a go. Not sure if there is some bugs and stuff for other people since for me it went smooth as it supposed to.

    The voting period doesn't begin until September 21st. ;)
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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  • starfarerthetastarfarertheta Member Posts: 683 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    I withdrew my entry. The story I wanted to tell just wasn't coming together all that well and I couldn't finish it before the deadline.

    I'm looking forward to trying out everyone else's entries though.

    Edit: This has nothing to do with editor bugs btw.
    Post edited by starfarertheta on

  • baelroghbaelrogh Member Posts: 4 Arc User

    The voting period doesn't begin until September 21st. ;)
    And it doesnt matter if mission is reviewed 5 times or not?

    dVmmEhN.png
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,378 Arc User
    baelrogh wrote: »

    The voting period doesn't begin until September 21st. ;)
    And it doesnt matter if mission is reviewed 5 times or not?

    No because that point quickly passes by when the voting period begins. You don't have to worry about priming your mission for plays, folks work from the list. And we do typically wait for the voting window to open to get started to be sure authors have finalized their projects before giving feedback and to make comparison between missions a bit easier.

    I would recommend you use the remaining build time on further polishing, testing, and further developing your maps (can always add more detail, up to the asset limit. ;) )
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
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    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,858 Arc User
    Oh, odd thing I had happen this morning...when accepting a Foundry Mission...it did not show up in the Mission Tracker window. I had to open the Foundry window a second time. Then it popped up there...even before I could search and select the mission a second time.

    Did not have time to try it, again, so it may have been a fluke...but, if it repeats, I will make a bug report.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • stcaptainquirkystcaptainquirky Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    drogyn1701 wrote: »
    Please heed the Foundry's EULA when submitting your entry! This applies to any mission made in the foundry. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!

    I started working on a mission (hope I will be able to finish in time) but I would like clarification in one point. I'd like to use an established Cardassian character from TNG. I don't plan on creating an actor likeliness of course (just want to pick a somewhat fitting hairstyle and eye colour, slap the character name on the NPC and leave it at that). As I interpret the EULA FAQs that should be within the rules (since I use an established character where the actor was under rather heavy makeup without going through great lengths to match the appearance of said character from the show) but I would like to ask for confirmation on whether or not my interpretation of the rules is correct.



    SaSOGlo.png
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    drogyn1701 wrote: »
    Please heed the Foundry's EULA when submitting your entry! This applies to any mission made in the foundry. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!

    I started working on a mission (hope I will be able to finish in time) but I would like clarification in one point. I'd like to use an established Cardassian character from TNG. I don't plan on creating an actor likeliness of course (just want to pick a somewhat fitting hairstyle and eye colour, slap the character name on the NPC and leave it at that). As I interpret the EULA FAQs that should be within the rules (since I use an established character where the actor was under rather heavy makeup without going through great lengths to match the appearance of said character from the show) but I would like to ask for confirmation on whether or not my interpretation of the rules is correct.



    technically that's correct but however there's a certain grey area as to "how heavy make-up is heavy enough", though considering that TNG klingons are considered "not heavy enough make-up" I'd say cardassians aren't heavy enough either.

    Also on the matter of replicating likeness "it's attempt to replicate likeness" it says nothing about succeeding at it. a "close but not quite there" attempt could be seen as trying to replicate the likeness and failing at it and if you make it so different that it cannot be seen as bad attempt at replicating the likeness of the actor why use the established character?

    New authors should read that rule as "don't use established characters as NPCs" for the sake of caution and simplicity
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,378 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    spiritborn wrote: »

    technically that's correct but however there's a certain grey area as to "how heavy make-up is heavy enough", though considering that TNG klingons are considered "not heavy enough make-up" I'd say cardassians aren't heavy enough either.

    Also on the matter of replicating likeness "it's attempt to replicate likeness" it says nothing about succeeding at it. a "close but not quite there" attempt could be seen as trying to replicate the likeness and failing at it and if you make it so different that it cannot be seen as bad attempt at replicating the likeness of the actor why use the established character?

    New authors should read that rule as "don't use established characters as NPCs" for the sake of caution and simplicity

    Indeed, by the letter of the EULA you can use characters provided that you don't use likenesses. But a character in a visual medium is defined through their physical appearance and so any character close enough to be recognized as [insert person here] may also be argued to be infringing on their actor (if someone felt strongly enough about it.) If they aren't recognizable (and are therefore completely EULA safe) then that's a problem for story telling in trying to present someone who is evidently not [insert person here] as [insert person here].

    There's no firmly set "how different is different enough" criteria so to avoid issues authors should air strongly on the side of caution. Personally, I don't depict canon characters because for my writing the story telling issues outweigh the benefit in making a visual reference (not that I couldn't have made use of a canon character, it's just that the tradeoff is too big for me.) An original character in a story well told can still have a lot of impact and offer more flexibility to shape that story for best effect.

    Plus you can do a lot with off-hand references in text and dialog to make connecting points without the complication of depicting canon characters in your mission (see. Hauriant's Treasure of the Pirate Picard). ;)
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
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    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    spiritborn wrote: »

    technically that's correct but however there's a certain grey area as to "how heavy make-up is heavy enough", though considering that TNG klingons are considered "not heavy enough make-up" I'd say cardassians aren't heavy enough either.

    Also on the matter of replicating likeness "it's attempt to replicate likeness" it says nothing about succeeding at it. a "close but not quite there" attempt could be seen as trying to replicate the likeness and failing at it and if you make it so different that it cannot be seen as bad attempt at replicating the likeness of the actor why use the established character?

    New authors should read that rule as "don't use established characters as NPCs" for the sake of caution and simplicity

    Indeed, by the letter of the EULA you can use characters provided that you don't use likenesses. But a character in a visual medium is defined through their physical appearance and so any character close enough to be recognized as [insert person here] may also be argued to be infringing on their actor (if someone felt strongly enough about it.) If they aren't recognizable (and are therefore completely EULA safe) then that's a problem for story telling in trying to present someone who is evidently not [insert person here] as [insert person here].

    There's no firmly set "how different is different enough" criteria so to avoid issues authors should air strongly on the side of caution. Personally, I don't depict canon characters because for my writing the story telling issues outweigh the benefit in making a visual reference (not that I couldn't have made use of a canon character, it's just that the tradeoff is too big for me.) An original character in a story well told can still have a lot of impact and offer more flexibility to shape that story for best effect.

    Plus you can do a lot with off-hand references in text and dialog to make connecting points without the complication of depicting canon characters in your mission (see. Hauriant's Treasure of the Pirate Picard). ;)

    You can tell when something is definetly under too much make-up like Morn (only part of the actor visible is his eyes) and pretty much anyone with roughly the same build could be under the make-up , however we have no clear border as to when the make up comes "heavy enough" we only know when it's definetly "heavy enough".

    Erring on the side of caution is adviceble here because there's a huge grey area where the only answer we can give to the question "is this ok to use" is "I dunno" and making a mistake here would lead at the best case scenario with mission being pulled down.
  • stcaptainquirkystcaptainquirky Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    Indeed, by the letter of the EULA you can use characters provided that you don't use likenesses. But a character in a visual medium is defined through their physical appearance and so any character close enough to be recognized as [insert person here] may also be argued to be infringing on their actor (if someone felt strongly enough about it.) If they aren't recognizable (and are therefore completely EULA safe) then that's a problem for story telling in trying to present someone who is evidently not [insert person here] as [insert person here].

    There's no firmly set "how different is different enough" criteria so to avoid issues authors should air strongly on the side of caution. Personally, I don't depict canon characters because for my writing the story telling issues outweigh the benefit in making a visual reference (not that I couldn't have made use of a canon character, it's just that the tradeoff is too big for me.) An original character in a story well told can still have a lot of impact and offer more flexibility to shape that story for best effect.

    Plus you can do a lot with off-hand references in text and dialog to make connecting points without the complication of depicting canon characters in your mission (see. Hauriant's Treasure of the Pirate Picard). ;)

    Just to clarify, I was talking about a minor character which appeared in one TNG episode and never again, not a strongly defined canon character. When I developed the basic outline of the story I introduced a character with certain properties and realised after a while that the established character in question would fit the bill (and left enough room for adding what I needed without contradiction). I did not fit the story specifically to that one character from the show. It would have nicely tied the mission to the canon but the story itself will not fall apart if I use an original character instead.

    This is actually the first time that I was really tempted to use a preestablished character (I used a Q in one of my previous missions but that one looked nothing like John de Lancie and was explicitely stated to be a different Q than the one in TNG, DS9 and VOY). I guess I will just rename the NPC (and to be sure change hairstyle and eyecolor as well).

    One side note though:

    If you always try to "strongly err on the side of caution" with respect to the rules given in the EULA, things get ridiculous very quickly.

    "You may not use the first or last names, likenesses, or other depictions of any actors appearing in, or writers, directors, or producers of the Star Trek Properties."

    Interpreting this in the most restrictive way possible essentially means that, to be on the safe side, you can not use any human names at all since there is always a chance to match the first or last name of an actor, writer, director or producer (I honestly don't know all of them) by accident. I'm fairly certain most foundry authors myself included have actually done that without even noticing. Matching a specific combination of first and last name by accident is of course a lot less likely but the rule says "first or last name" and going strictly by the letter, context or intent is irrelevant (so for example naming an NPC Robert Smith would be a violation of the EULA whether you were thinking of Robert Picardo or not).

    While I'm willing to agree on not using any canon characters as NPCs at all in order to avoid trouble, staying out of all "grey zones" established by the EULA seems pretty much impossible.

    SaSOGlo.png
  • drogyn1701drogyn1701 Member Posts: 3,606 Media Corps
    Obviously there is common sense to be exercised here. If you name a character James, no one is going to come after you for EULA violations because that happens to be James Doohan's first name.

    Still, the advice we always give is simple: you are generally better off just making up your own characters.
    The Foundry Roundtable live Saturdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    drogyn1701 wrote: »
    Obviously there is common sense to be exercised here. If you name a character James, no one is going to come after you for EULA violations because that happens to be James Doohan's first name.

    Still, the advice we always give is simple: you are generally better off just making up your own characters.

    Indeed most common english/american first name would be ok to use as long as they're not used in combination that reffers to prominent member of the production team.

    While it's quite hard to avoid certain grey zones one should still err on the side of caution aka if you're not sure if this is ok, then don't do it.

    the reason our advice is rather blunt and simple is this, newcommers don't know where boarders are in some cases even veteran authors aren't sure, so it's better to have overly strict rules until people get an idea where boarders are.

    Still using common sense is also adviceble.
  • stcaptainquirkystcaptainquirky Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    spiritborn wrote: »
    drogyn1701 wrote: »
    Obviously there is common sense to be exercised here. If you name a character James, no one is going to come after you for EULA violations because that happens to be James Doohan's first name.

    Still, the advice we always give is simple: you are generally better off just making up your own characters.

    Indeed most common english/american first name would be ok to use as long as they're not used in combination that reffers to prominent member of the production team.

    That may be the interpretation common sense dictates but it's not what is actually written in the EULA. If common sense would always apply in lawsuits there wouldn't be much reason for a saying like "At sea and in court you are in God's hand". ;)

    That being said I'm generally working under the assumption that the foundry is intended to be used so I don't expect anyone to go after me (or any other foundry author) for something like using a common first name. And I should probably drop this point now before crossing into the area of trolling.
    spiritborn wrote: »
    ...newcommers don't know where boarders are in some cases even veteran authors aren't sure, so it's better to have overly strict rules until people get an idea where boarders are.

    Which is why I decided to ask here instead of relying entirely on my own judgement. So, spiritborn, duncanidaho11 and drogyn1701, thanks for your feedback and your advice. Fortunately, I have yet to write most of the dialogs so changing a character's name at this point won't be that much work.
    SaSOGlo.png
  • sofascumsofascum Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Mission Title: "Generation Armageddon"
    Your @Handle: EnglishWerewolf
    Faction: Starfleet
    Level Requirement: 31
    Mission Summary: The Cardassian Government has requested that you intercept and investigate a ship that is heading toward Cardassia Prime.
    Long range scans have pulled up an ancient file from the old Obssidian Order data base, a ship known as the Tuatha Danaan, so the Cardassian governemnt advise caution during your investigation aboard a ship, that has spent four hundred years in space.
    What you do not eat tonight, will eat you tomorrow
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,378 Arc User
    sofascum wrote: »
    Mission Title: "Generation Armageddon"
    Your @Handle: EnglishWerewolf
    Faction: Starfleet
    Level Requirement: 31
    Mission Summary: The Cardassian Government has requested that you intercept and investigate a ship that is heading toward Cardassia Prime.
    Long range scans have pulled up an ancient file from the old Obssidian Order data base, a ship known as the Tuatha Danaan, so the Cardassian governemnt advise caution during your investigation aboard a ship, that has spent four hundred years in space.

    Official entry thread: https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1242985/foundry-challenge-entry-thread-victory-is-life
    ;)

    (This one's for general challenge discussion)
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,858 Arc User
    Is the Foundry missions supposed to have the glowy circle around the starting point out in Sector space? Or is this a bug report?
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,378 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    where2r1 wrote: »
    Is the Foundry missions supposed to have the glowy circle around the starting point out in Sector space? Or is this a bug report?

    Foundry missions don't have waypoints for their entry door, long-standing problem and it would be nice to get a fix. But, in sector space this is less of a problem (ground: can be difficult to direct players to the right Foundry door.) Just be sure to include the name of the system in the mission description, contact briefing, and (for good measure) the description of the first map (so it's displayed in the mission journal pane.)

    Ex. "Prologue - Example System" or "Prologue (Example System)"
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

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    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • castsbugccastsbugc Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    Don't suppose there is any way I can make a humble request to push the deadline to saturday the 22nd? Ive had internet issues that have basically locked me out of STO for days and the extended downtimes havent helped me at all.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,378 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    castsbugc wrote: »
    Don't suppose there is any way I can make a humble request to push the deadline to saturday the 22nd? Ive had internet issues that have basically locked me out of STO for days and the extended downtimes havent helped me at all.

    We can't move the global deadline back but in the case of technical difficulty we can make an allowance for affected authors. Drogyn says it's okay for you to publish the mission on Saturday. Be sure the entry in the mission thread is completely up to date on Friday (there's going to be an announcement commencing the voting period.)
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

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    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • stcaptainquirkystcaptainquirky Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    It was somewhat of a close call but I managed to finish my entry in time. The editor seems to have more issues than I remembered so I had to publish a bit earlier than I originally intended in order to ensure that I would have time for a proper ingame test. I just completed my final testrun and at least there seem to be no issues that prevent anyone from completing the mission. There are probably a lot of spelling errors that I missed in my proofreading and there are definitely a couple of minor things that could still use some polishing but that will have to wait until after the voting period.

    It's Friday 21st short after midnight now in my timezone and since I don't know for sure when I'll be home from work, I'm not inclined to risk accidently missing the deadline by withdrawing the mission again at this point. I trust that this is not a problem within the rules of the challenge.

    Well, time to go to sleep now.
    SaSOGlo.png
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,378 Arc User
    Yay! Congrats on getting it in. :)
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

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    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • drogyn1701drogyn1701 Member Posts: 3,606 Media Corps
    Alright folks, today is the day!

    Have your missions published by 4 p.m. US Pacific Time.

    We do recognize this is a hobby that we all do and sometimes real life stuff gets in the way, so if your mission is done but you can't publish by exactly the right time please let me know right away. I'll be compiling the final list of entries at that time based on which missions I can find published, unless you've let me know about special circumstances.
    The Foundry Roundtable live Saturdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,858 Arc User
    There is no spell checker on the text in the Foundry? Egads!
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • designationxr377designationxr377 Member Posts: 542 Arc User
    I have published my mission early since I work through the launch window, happy to be a part of this one and bring good positive attention the foundry!

    Looking forward to playing through everybody's missions!
  • kevinm1701akevinm1701a Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    My mission is submitted on the other forum post I almost forgot to do it. I commend those that organized this event I have never made a foundry mission before and after a little trial and error I figured out how to do most of what I wanted and get it tested and done. I do wish we had more options for enemy squads as I wanted to have some enemy Bajorans but couldn't find them. So I settled for Cardassians. Be kind this is my first try at this lol
  • hippiejonhippiejon Member Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    Can't wait to play everyone's missions.
    Happy so many people entered and glad to see positive attention for the Foundry.
  • drogyn1701drogyn1701 Member Posts: 3,606 Media Corps
    Hey everyone, quick update. We've just been waiting on a couple stragglers to finish up. Look for the mission list and voting details thread soon!
    The Foundry Roundtable live Saturdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,310 Arc User
    drogyn1701 wrote: »
    Obviously there is common sense to be exercised here. If you name a character James, no one is going to come after you for EULA violations because that happens to be James Doohan's first name.

    Still, the advice we always give is simple: you are generally better off just making up your own characters.
    Or using STO characters who aren't from the TV show. :)
    where2r1 wrote: »
    There is no spell checker on the text in the Foundry? Egads!
    It does support copy/paste functionality. So you can spellcheck in a word processing application then paste the text into the foundry.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • stcaptainquirkystcaptainquirky Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    It does support copy/paste functionality. So you can spellcheck in a word processing application then paste the text into the foundry.

    Indeed you can. I tried that on one mission (one which has been shelved at about 80% completion for some years now) and found that it slows progress quite a bit. Still a useful option if you're not running on a schedule but of course it does not replace the necessity for proofreading since an automated spellcheck will not help in mixups like to/two/too were/where and a couple of other things that might result from a missing character.

    There is now an official list of entries so I guess the voting period has definitely started. I will probably refrain from casting a vote (since I see it as potential conflict of interest) but I try to find the time to play every mission on the list within the next few weeks.

    I hope this challenge will succeed in bringing more attention to the foundry and not only be noticed within the group of already active foundry authors.

    So, in the Star Trek tradition of quoting famous writers ;) :
    Fain would I please the public, win their thanks;
    They live and let live, hence it is but meet.
    The posts are now erected, and the planks,
    And all look forward to a festal treat.
    Their places taken, they, with eyebrows rais'd,
    Sit patiently, and fain would be amaz'd.
    I know the art to hit the public taste,
    Yet ne'er of failure felt so keen a dread;
    True, they are not accustomed to the best,
    But then appalling the amount they've read..
    How make our entertainment striking, new,
    And yet significant and pleasing too?
    For to be plain, I love to see the throng,
    As to our booth the living tide progresses;
    As wave on wave successive rolls along,
    And through heaven's narrow portal forceful presses;
    Still in broad daylight, ere the clock strikes four,
    With blows their way towards the box they take;
    And, as for bread in famine, at the baker's door,
    For tickets are content their necks to break.
    Such various minds the bard alone can sway,
    My friend, oh work this miracle today!


    SaSOGlo.png
  • nunoespadinha#0711 nunoespadinha Member Posts: 124 Arc User
    Is there a voting place already?
    U.S.S. Achiever
    Junae, Girquay, Meman'Ikan, Deanna, Elisa Flores, Nuno Espadinha, Heidi, Kolez, T'Vrell, Zarva, Vocan, Oeshi
    Zv9NH5Z.png
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