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Advanced and Elite Ques should have time limit.
antiquesroadshow
Member Posts: 227 Arc User
It is wrong to be stuck in an Elite or Advanced Q because of bad players who shouldn't be playing them. You have a leaver penalty. And that's fine. But being stuck in a Q for 15 minutes because players who don't have the gear to play it is wrong.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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It's possible I could manage advanced, but if I queue it's usually for normal.
If you expect fast and perfect completion then don't play PUGs. Join a channel and find other experience players.
For the past 3 weeks, I've been playing Advanced and Elite queues with Very Rare Mk 12 gear...
Every single run I've been in that has failed, as the direct result of players not being able to comprehend what to do... heck... Some of the winning missions I've run, I was the heaviest hitter with around 2 mil damage...
Agreed, you can't fault under geared players for playing Advanced Queues. There is however, no reason at all for them to be in Elites. The big problem with Advanced is exactly what you said.. it's the only way to get some of the Elite Reputation Marks that you need for the Rep Gear you would usually use to play Advanced Queues. Veteran players can handle Advanced using mission rewards with little problem, but not every player can. Those players that can't are left to hope someone will carry them through Advanced. This is why I try and be easy on players in PUG games when playing in Advanced Queues.
If they are in Elite however, they should know better. There is no excuse for someone being an a PUG Elite without proper gear or knowledge of the map.
^^ Well spoken! And, indeed, the rules for Elite queues are different: there's no excuse for being in one, unless you can handle it.
Just yesterday, I was in an ISA where the others (mostly consisting of Jem'Hadar) kept dying, two people left, the other two weren't really powerful.
At one moment I managed to bring the Transformer down to a few percent while they were all over the place, having moved on to the right side, fighting spheres everywhere and so on. Then it was repaired.
With some prudence I could kill most spheres and then the three of us (after having rallied the other two remaining players) could destroy it. The other side wasn't really a problem, strangely enough. We finished in 18 minutes or so, with my ship having to tank and deal most of the damage to the Gateway and Cube.
And all this was just after an ISA on another toon that was finished in a minute or two, with hardly a single shot fired from my ship (probably because @peterconnorfirst was in it lol).
There should be no time limit though. The first described fight was interesting. Definitely more interesting than the one that was over before I knew it.
That's exactly what I did first thing. Replaced beams with cannons. Though he hasn't been queuing or anthing, I just agree a ship should have either beams or cannons, not both.
Nukara and Romulan reps have no elite marks, thus everything is available from Normal. Fleet gear is also available without doing any advanced queues. Furthermore, all BZs (possibly excluding gamma, but it's a fake BZ anyway) have normal-tier enemies while having possibility to earn elite marks as their rewards. Plus plenty of newer mission rewards are not too shabby either. If any of those aforementioned options won't make you ready for advanced, it would probably be better for you to find another hobby, cause anything not possible to earn that way won't help you anyway.
(I'm excluding the 100 mark = 1 elite mark conversion, because while it's possible, it's horribly slow and not a practical option to solely rely on for anyone.)
And yes, I know as well as anyone that advanced queues have the highest chance of popping, but that's another topic altogether.
But, being on topic - I really don't see how an advanced queue would take horrible amount of time even if you're the only person in queue who is capable of doing something. If you *do* experience something like this, it might be worth checking your own build as well.
And elites will fail sooner or later anyway if you're team is not good enough. Furthermore, most of the missions have timegates set up in a way that you'll progress or fail after a set amount of time anyway.
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There are always ppl who can do everything with white Mk II gear. But I'd say most players can't do so comfortably. So, most will seek to obtain rep gear, at one point or another.
And yes, obviously, those feeling undergeared for an Advanced queue still CAN finish it -- albeit barely. That was the whole point of the discussion: ppl are doing the Advanced queues because they want the good gear, but had rather gone in with the better gear to begin with.
And simply, Advanced queues reward better. People will seek those higher rewards, and risk that maybe they'll fail. Since these are only Advanced queues, I see no problem with that practice, really.
I don't see any problem with that practice, either. Not as the queues are now at least.
Advanced really is Normal+, ever since they nixed the fail conditions. There is little point queuing anything at all on Normal, except for those queues that are not available Advanced and some event queues if you just want the event trinket ASAP.
And especially all those timed auto-win queues there is absolutely no reason to play on Normal even in theory, since the Advanced version will automatically win in the exact same time, all regardless of player performance anyway, and gives higher reward.
But of course, I do think it's a mistake Cryptic made them that way.
I think you misunderstood me. You don't need absolutely anything from advanced queues to obtain items I mentioned earlier. The only difference between, say, CCN and CCA rewards is the amount of marks rewarded (and the mk of 1st-3rd place item(s)). Is Nukara 2pc+Fleet Resilient, that is available from doing only normal queues, the absolute cream of the crop these days? Of course not, but if someone says they need something better to make themselves advanced-ready, they're either a very bad player or very bad liar.
It's not about whether players should practice that behaviour or not - you know me, I don't care at all about undergeared players in my advanced queues, hell, I don't care too much who are in my elites. I'm just saying that the whole premise of "I can't get good gear unless I do advanced queues undergeared X times and get that specific rep gear" is false.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
Yep, you answered your own question. The purpose of the queues is getting gear. If queues rewarded nothing -- except maybe some Dilithium -- ppl wouldn't really be doing them (even the Dilithium you're getting mostly serves the purpose of... getting gear).
LOL @ 'DPSwanker'
A queue is played primarily -- as the mountain climber said about the mountain -- because it's there. It's at the core of every MMO: the ability to make progress/get some new gear. I think there's only a small window where players truly 'need' gear. Like I really don't need all those endless mission reward sets; but I'm getting them anyway, because they're there to be had.
Elite Marks directly instead of the 100:1 slow walk.
At this time, Gamma Recruits to get to that 100 Queue Unlock.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
At the end of the day no matter what the standards are set at, short of giving folks an "I win button" there will always be folks that simply can't clear. The question is how to get as many folks through as possible without making it a miserable experience for all. Simply adding auto-fails alone does not guarantee folks will get better as folks will always take the path of least resistance.
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Given most Advanced/Elite queues are stated in the description to take 20 minutes; what makes you think Cryptic would set any timer for less then that? (IE It's 5 minutes longer than you need to wait now.)
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Timed auto-win is like playing football with only one team on the field. They are obviously going to "win" and nothing they do while waiting for the clock to run out is going to change that.
Nothing can guarantee players will get any better at anything. All you can do is give them a reason to try, by putting up challenges and rewarding players if/when they overcome them.
- Doctor Philip Boyce
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Nope, you can get every Elite mark from the 100 mark trade in per day, in the reputation itself. It just takes longer is all. So, no, the queues are not the only way to get the Elite Mark. Just the fastest.