The main issue is the entire "5 aft unique feature baffling and useless" thing. That's what most of the discussion centers around. Sure, it's possible to simply ignore this feature and run it a serviceable FAWtard boat, but the discussion is mostly about trying to actually use the ship's strengths, of which it appears to have none.
This is untested but I might have found a strength of the ships. It still doesn’t make use of the 5 rears but a hyper flight speed destructible torp bomber should be possible beyond what any other ship can do. Take destructible plasma torps you can get 20% flight speed from the Vorgon set, 33% from Pre Fire sequence trait and a further bonus from the Rom/Reman set. Not sure how the 3 stack up but I will test it shortly on my Vorgon Carrier. As I use mines as my main weapon I am still avoiding the Ytijar but the idea should transfer over to the Ytijar.
The main issue is the entire "5 aft unique feature baffling and useless" thing. That's what most of the discussion centers around. Sure, it's possible to simply ignore this feature and run it a serviceable FAWtard boat, but the discussion is mostly about trying to actually use the ship's strengths, of which it appears to have none.
This is untested but I might have found a strength of the ships. It still doesn’t make use of the 5 rears but a hyper flight speed destructible torp bomber should be possible beyond what any other ship can do. Take destructible plasma torps you can get 20% flight speed from the Vorgon set, 33% from Pre Fire sequence trait and a further bonus from the Rom/Reman set. Not sure how the 3 stack up but I will test it shortly on my Vorgon Carrier. As I use mines as my main weapon I am still avoiding the Ytijar but the idea should transfer over to the Ytijar.
I think thats over thinking the Devs intent a bit. These are peeps that cant even put together a coherent ship build so i seriously doubt this. I think its as simple as they thought 'lets switch it up a bit' and 'a dread is normally 5/3 so just flip it or something'. The the only thing keeping it from being out and out terrible is the players willingness to go to the ends of the earth to make something useable.
At least this is my opinion till they actually tell us wtf they were thinking. People really wanted a 5/3 dread so this 3/5 was kinda like sticking a finger *the middle one mind you* in their eye. Personally I pretty much just get the event ships for account wide admiralty cards.
The main issue is the entire "5 aft unique feature baffling and useless" thing. That's what most of the discussion centers around. Sure, it's possible to simply ignore this feature and run it a serviceable FAWtard boat, but the discussion is mostly about trying to actually use the ship's strengths, of which it appears to have none.
This is untested but I might have found a strength of the ships. It still doesn’t make use of the 5 rears but a hyper flight speed destructible torp bomber should be possible beyond what any other ship can do. Take destructible plasma torps you can get 20% flight speed from the Vorgon set, 33% from Pre Fire sequence trait and a further bonus from the Rom/Reman set. Not sure how the 3 stack up but I will test it shortly on my Vorgon Carrier. As I use mines as my main weapon I am still avoiding the Ytijar but the idea should transfer over to the Ytijar.
I think thats over thinking the Devs intent a bit. These are peeps that cant even put together a coherent ship build so i seriously doubt this. I think its as simple as they thought 'lets switch it up a bit' and 'a dread is normally 5/3 so just flip it or something'. The the only thing keeping it from being out and out terrible is the players willingness to go to the ends of the earth to make something useable.
At least this is my opinion till they actually tell us wtf they were thinking. People really wanted a 5/3 dread so this 3/5 was kinda like sticking a finger *the middle one mind you* in their eye. Personally I pretty much just get the event ships for account wide admiralty cards.
Personally I think they intended it to be used as a mine layer ship but completely messed it up. They forgot about the cooldown problems and mine de-spwarn problem when you fit 5 mines of the same type. That and gave it the wrong bridge officer layout for mines. It they just fixed the mine launchers bugs and problem it could be made into a workable 5 rear mine layer.
That beam bank on the set is a 90 degree arc which isn't good when you are trying to broadside with both front and rear weapons. Now I could replace it with a regular Tet beam array but then that will take away from the three piece set bonus which is a nice extra to have. If the nukara set had a regular beam array that would work better on this ship. Especially since the turn rate makes watching linoleum curl exciting.
Throw 5 photon mines in the back get all the sets supporting photon projectiles and mines and have fun with this boat, Other then that it doesn't have much to offer.
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
Throw 5 photon mines in the back get all the sets supporting photon projectiles and mines and have fun with this boat, Other then that it doesn't have much to offer.
That doesn't work and is an extremely bad idea. Doing that will be very difficult to kill anything. Never ever use 5 of the same mine launcher type on any ship as it cripples your ship. In fact I wouldn't use more then 2 of the same mine type. If you want to use more then 2 mine launchers you have to mix mine types. On my mine layer builds I have got the point where I do not use more then 1 mine launcher of the same type as adding extra is counter productive.
To put it another way 5 mine launchers of the same type performs worse then 2 mine launchers. If the 5 rear was meant to be used for mine launchers then the devs need to change the way mines launchers work.
If the 5 rear was meant to be used for mine launchers then the devs need to change the way mines launchers work.
And if it wasn't meant for mine launchers, then what WAS it meant for? These are the ONLY rear slot weapons in game!
I think I wrote that pages ago. Omni beams fore, beam arrays aft or mix in a torpedo - that's more raw rear arc firepower than any other ship has. Hur'q trash mobs go there, that's how you shoot them. That's your unique concept right there and what probably was the reason for this.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
If the 5 rear was meant to be used for mine launchers then the devs need to change the way mines launchers work.
And if it wasn't meant for mine launchers, then what WAS it meant for? These are the ONLY rear slot weapons in game!
I think I wrote that pages ago. Omni beams fore, beam arrays aft or mix in a torpedo - that's more raw rear arc firepower than any other ship has. Hur'q trash mobs go there, that's how you shoot them. That's your unique concept right there and what probably was the reason for this.
Not sure about more raw firepower aft that any other ship. Carriers, turret boats and most of my mine layers have more raw rear firepower then this ship. While your idea of omni beams fore and beam arrays aft is unique and works I am not sure its worthwhile or that beneficial. 1 extra rear slot doesn't really make any noticeable difference in dealing with Hur'q trash mobs.
Perhaps you are right and that was the concept the devs intended. But for me as a ship designed to fight the Hur'g this ship has failed. I tired using it against the Hur'q and gave up due to poor performance. It worked just not very well. Going to try a few more builds tomorrow but I am on the verge of giving up. For me part of the problem is the Hur'q do not reach my rear arc. They die from mines in my forward arc before they get chance to move into my rear. I could park my ship backwards but then none of my forward 180 arc powers work.
It just feels like a badly designed ship that can be made to work just not work very well.
If the 5 rear was meant to be used for mine launchers then the devs need to change the way mines launchers work.
And if it wasn't meant for mine launchers, then what WAS it meant for? These are the ONLY rear slot weapons in game!
I think I wrote that pages ago. Omni beams fore, beam arrays aft or mix in a torpedo - that's more raw rear arc firepower than any other ship has. Hur'q trash mobs go there, that's how you shoot them. That's your unique concept right there and what probably was the reason for this.
Not sure about more raw firepower aft that any other ship. Carriers, turret boats and most of my mine layers have more raw rear firepower then this ship. While your idea of omni beams fore and beam arrays aft is unique and works I am not sure its worthwhile or that beneficial.
His idea is only 'unique' in the sense that it follows Cryptic's own 5/3 switcheroo, now with omnis in fore, instead of aft, to support an aft arc, instead of forward one (but weaker, as you can't put DBB's in aft, and those will need to be regular beam arrays).
The problem with the event ship remains the crappy station layout, not accommodating for decent Mine abilities at all. angrytarg's idea may be the only viable alternative to just a regular 8-beams beam-boat, though.
If the 5 rear was meant to be used for mine launchers then the devs need to change the way mines launchers work.
And if it wasn't meant for mine launchers, then what WAS it meant for? These are the ONLY rear slot weapons in game!
I think I wrote that pages ago. Omni beams fore, beam arrays aft or mix in a torpedo - that's more raw rear arc firepower than any other ship has. Hur'q trash mobs go there, that's how you shoot them. That's your unique concept right there and what probably was the reason for this.
Not sure about more raw firepower aft that any other ship. Carriers, turret boats and most of my mine layers have more raw rear firepower then this ship. While your idea of omni beams fore and beam arrays aft is unique and works I am not sure its worthwhile or that beneficial.
His idea is only 'unique' in the sense that it follows Cryptic's own 5/3 switcheroo, now with omnis in fore, instead of aft, to support an aft arc, instead of forward one (but weaker, as you can't put DBB's in aft, and those will need to be regular beam arrays).
The problem with the event ship remains the crappy station layout, not accommodating for decent Mine abilities at all. angrytarg's idea may be the only viable alternative to just a regular 8-beams beam-boat, though.
Well, not all Hur'Q ships will end in your rear arc. So you basically use it as a broad-side ship ,but when the Hur'q swarm ships appear behind you and you still need to turn to get them into broadside arc, your rear arc is better than that of a 5/3 or 4/4 beam boat.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
If the 5 rear was meant to be used for mine launchers then the devs need to change the way mines launchers work.
And if it wasn't meant for mine launchers, then what WAS it meant for? These are the ONLY rear slot weapons in game!
I think I wrote that pages ago. Omni beams fore, beam arrays aft or mix in a torpedo - that's more raw rear arc firepower than any other ship has. Hur'q trash mobs go there, that's how you shoot them. That's your unique concept right there and what probably was the reason for this.
Not sure about more raw firepower aft that any other ship. Carriers, turret boats and most of my mine layers have more raw rear firepower then this ship. While your idea of omni beams fore and beam arrays aft is unique and works I am not sure its worthwhile or that beneficial.
His idea is only 'unique' in the sense that it follows Cryptic's own 5/3 switcheroo, now with omnis in fore, instead of aft, to support an aft arc, instead of forward one (but weaker, as you can't put DBB's in aft, and those will need to be regular beam arrays).
The problem with the event ship remains the crappy station layout, not accommodating for decent Mine abilities at all. angrytarg's idea may be the only viable alternative to just a regular 8-beams beam-boat, though.
Well, not all Hur'Q ships will end in your rear arc. So you basically use it as a broad-side ship ,but when the Hur'q swarm ships appear behind you and you still need to turn to get them into broadside arc, your rear arc is better than that of a 5/3 or 4/4 beam boat.
Accept it’s not better in the rear due to the poor bridge officer and console layout. My 4/3 setup does more damage in the rear then this 3/5 ship.
Just spent hours testing setups and I have given up. Just swapped back to my standard 4/3 ship with mines as it has double the performance. My other ships performance are around 100% higher than the Ytijara, that's how badly designed the Ytijara is. Or another way to put it 3 rear mines on my other Dreadnoughts is around about the same damage as my entire Ytijara ship with all front and rear weapons, pets and powers combined. That's how badly its performing for me.
After countless hours of failing I have come to the conclusion the Ytijara is just a terrible design. It can be made to work but not work well.
If the 5 rear was meant to be used for mine launchers then the devs need to change the way mines launchers work.
And if it wasn't meant for mine launchers, then what WAS it meant for? These are the ONLY rear slot weapons in game!
I think I wrote that pages ago. Omni beams fore, beam arrays aft or mix in a torpedo - that's more raw rear arc firepower than any other ship has. Hur'q trash mobs go there, that's how you shoot them. That's your unique concept right there and what probably was the reason for this.
Not sure about more raw firepower aft that any other ship. Carriers, turret boats and most of my mine layers have more raw rear firepower then this ship. While your idea of omni beams fore and beam arrays aft is unique and works I am not sure its worthwhile or that beneficial.
His idea is only 'unique' in the sense that it follows Cryptic's own 5/3 switcheroo, now with omnis in fore, instead of aft, to support an aft arc, instead of forward one (but weaker, as you can't put DBB's in aft, and those will need to be regular beam arrays).
The problem with the event ship remains the crappy station layout, not accommodating for decent Mine abilities at all. angrytarg's idea may be the only viable alternative to just a regular 8-beams beam-boat, though.
Well, not all Hur'Q ships will end in your rear arc. So you basically use it as a broad-side ship ,but when the Hur'q swarm ships appear behind you and you still need to turn to get them into broadside arc, your rear arc is better than that of a 5/3 or 4/4 beam boat.
How do you project more raw firepower aft with less weapons? A turret boat has all turrets, which do less damage than omnis and beam arrays. Mind you, "raw firepower" excludes abilities. As I said before, trying to evaluate this ship by using figured out mechanics and numbers is, in my opinion, wrong when trying to ask "what were they thinking". STO is not designed for hardcore players and I am certain "it shoots better aft" was their reasoning. There are still no "aft cannons" save the fixed tail gun on the patrol escort - I never said this is a way to achieve records, if Cryptic wanted that they'd also design new weapons to go with this. But again, you are looking for a unique set up this is it.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
If the 5 rear was meant to be used for mine launchers then the devs need to change the way mines launchers work.
And if it wasn't meant for mine launchers, then what WAS it meant for? These are the ONLY rear slot weapons in game!
I think I wrote that pages ago. Omni beams fore, beam arrays aft or mix in a torpedo - that's more raw rear arc firepower than any other ship has. Hur'q trash mobs go there, that's how you shoot them. That's your unique concept right there and what probably was the reason for this.
Not sure about more raw firepower aft that any other ship. Carriers, turret boats and most of my mine layers have more raw rear firepower then this ship. While your idea of omni beams fore and beam arrays aft is unique and works I am not sure its worthwhile or that beneficial.
His idea is only 'unique' in the sense that it follows Cryptic's own 5/3 switcheroo, now with omnis in fore, instead of aft, to support an aft arc, instead of forward one (but weaker, as you can't put DBB's in aft, and those will need to be regular beam arrays).
The problem with the event ship remains the crappy station layout, not accommodating for decent Mine abilities at all. angrytarg's idea may be the only viable alternative to just a regular 8-beams beam-boat, though.
Well, not all Hur'Q ships will end in your rear arc. So you basically use it as a broad-side ship ,but when the Hur'q swarm ships appear behind you and you still need to turn to get them into broadside arc, your rear arc is better than that of a 5/3 or 4/4 beam boat.
Accept it’s not better in the rear due to the poor bridge officer and console layout. My 4/3 setup does more damage in the rear then this 3/5 ship.
Just spent hours testing setups and I have given up. Just swapped back to my standard 4/3 ship with mines as it has double the performance. My other ships performance are around 100% higher than the Ytijara, that's how badly designed the Ytijara is. Or another way to put it 3 rear mines on my other Dreadnoughts is around about the same damage as my entire Ytijara ship with all front and rear weapons, pets and powers combined. That's how badly its performing for me.
After countless hours of failing I have come to the conclusion the Ytijara is just a terrible design. It can be made to work but not work well.
Once again, thank you for all your testing. And I fear you're right: even a trick with Omnis in fore is not going to make it equal to a regular beam 'strafe' boat with properly re-engineered regular beam weps (although one could certainly choose such a setup, but then lose the entire, alleged purpose of this ship). As I keep saying, it simply lacks the tactical station seats to do Mines properly. And, to add insult to injury, their own rep Mine, which also goes in aft, put Mines *in front* of your ship: cute for some setups, for sure, but not exactly supporting their supposed Mine-layer event ship.
Accept it’s not better in the rear due to the poor bridge officer and console layout. My 4/3 setup does more damage in the rear then this 3/5 ship.
Just spent hours testing setups and I have given up. Just swapped back to my standard 4/3 ship with mines as it has double the performance. My other ships performance are around 100% higher than the Ytijara, that's how badly designed the Ytijara is. Or another way to put it 3 rear mines on my other Dreadnoughts is around about the same damage as my entire Ytijara ship with all front and rear weapons, pets and powers combined. That's how badly its performing for me.
After countless hours of failing I have come to the conclusion the Ytijara is just a terrible design. It can be made to work but not work well.
Agreed, people can keep defending it if they want.. but the Ytijara is a steaming pile. Even if the ship was 4/4 or 5/3 the rest of it's layout would still make it suck. I have theory crafted a few builds on this ship, even just standard beam boat or turret boat layouts.. and it flat out sucks either way.
If people want to convince themselves this is a good ship, then cool.. but this thing is an admiralty card.. nothing more. Outside of maybe the Samsar, you simply can't do worse.
How do you project more raw firepower aft with less weapons? A turret boat has all turrets, which do less damage than omnis and beam arrays. Mind you, "raw firepower" excludes abilities. As I said before, trying to evaluate this ship by using figured out mechanics and numbers is, in my opinion, wrong when trying to ask "what were they thinking". STO is not designed for hardcore players and I am certain "it shoots better aft" was their reasoning. There are still no "aft cannons" save the fixed tail gun on the patrol escort - I never said this is a way to achieve records, if Cryptic wanted that they'd also design new weapons to go with this. But again, you are looking for a unique set up this is it.
I didn’t realise by raw you mean no abilities. For me I look at the end result of the ship and what I can do with it.
Due to the Specialization seat, console slots and bridge officer powers. With 3 mine launchers my old dreadnought is dropping more mines and each mine is hitting harder which combined does more damage than then a similar setup fitted to the Ytijara.
The same should apply to an energy boat. Take all turrets if I fit that to my old dreadnought I have extra crit and extra damage from the extra tactical slot, scatter volley goes from 105% to 110% which stacks with extra tactical slot. Plus since the scatter volley 3 is now in, scatter volley 2 slot can be swapped from something like pattern beta 2 or Kemo 3. The beta 2 or kemo that would have been in the lieutenant slot is now free for something else. It’s a chain reaction of small things that make a massive difference when combined.
For me if the ship is meant to be designed to specialize in something and its half as effective as other ships not specialize in that task. Then the ship has been very badly designed.
I have been trying now for many hours to use this ship in the Swam event and I gave up. It is so poor at shooting aft I swapped back to my ship with 3 rears which is twice the performance. For me it’s not about breaking records but I do have a minimum level in performance I find acceptable. For the content I play and I cannot get the Ytijara to push past that minimum level. While the Ytijara is more then enough for normal I tend to play on advance and Elite even standard missions are set to Elite.
Made Tier 2 in the level last night. It's like getting a tooth pulled at the dentist. Sure it works but oh is it unpleasant. I'm doing the FAW3 + Kemo 2 spam and slowly working through things. The web wall console is kinda fun though. For a brief moment I feel like Spiderman.
Comments
I think thats over thinking the Devs intent a bit. These are peeps that cant even put together a coherent ship build so i seriously doubt this. I think its as simple as they thought 'lets switch it up a bit' and 'a dread is normally 5/3 so just flip it or something'. The the only thing keeping it from being out and out terrible is the players willingness to go to the ends of the earth to make something useable.
At least this is my opinion till they actually tell us wtf they were thinking. People really wanted a 5/3 dread so this 3/5 was kinda like sticking a finger *the middle one mind you* in their eye. Personally I pretty much just get the event ships for account wide admiralty cards.
1x https://sto.gamepedia.com/Nukara_Appropriated_Munitions (Beam bank)
That beam bank on the set is a 90 degree arc which isn't good when you are trying to broadside with both front and rear weapons. Now I could replace it with a regular Tet beam array but then that will take away from the three piece set bonus which is a nice extra to have. If the nukara set had a regular beam array that would work better on this ship. Especially since the turn rate makes watching linoleum curl exciting.
To put it another way 5 mine launchers of the same type performs worse then 2 mine launchers. If the 5 rear was meant to be used for mine launchers then the devs need to change the way mines launchers work.
I think I wrote that pages ago. Omni beams fore, beam arrays aft or mix in a torpedo - that's more raw rear arc firepower than any other ship has. Hur'q trash mobs go there, that's how you shoot them. That's your unique concept right there and what probably was the reason for this.
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Perhaps you are right and that was the concept the devs intended. But for me as a ship designed to fight the Hur'g this ship has failed. I tired using it against the Hur'q and gave up due to poor performance. It worked just not very well. Going to try a few more builds tomorrow but I am on the verge of giving up. For me part of the problem is the Hur'q do not reach my rear arc. They die from mines in my forward arc before they get chance to move into my rear. I could park my ship backwards but then none of my forward 180 arc powers work.
It just feels like a badly designed ship that can be made to work just not work very well.
His idea is only 'unique' in the sense that it follows Cryptic's own 5/3 switcheroo, now with omnis in fore, instead of aft, to support an aft arc, instead of forward one (but weaker, as you can't put DBB's in aft, and those will need to be regular beam arrays).
The problem with the event ship remains the crappy station layout, not accommodating for decent Mine abilities at all. angrytarg's idea may be the only viable alternative to just a regular 8-beams beam-boat, though.
Well, not all Hur'Q ships will end in your rear arc. So you basically use it as a broad-side ship ,but when the Hur'q swarm ships appear behind you and you still need to turn to get them into broadside arc, your rear arc is better than that of a 5/3 or 4/4 beam boat.
Just spent hours testing setups and I have given up. Just swapped back to my standard 4/3 ship with mines as it has double the performance. My other ships performance are around 100% higher than the Ytijara, that's how badly designed the Ytijara is. Or another way to put it 3 rear mines on my other Dreadnoughts is around about the same damage as my entire Ytijara ship with all front and rear weapons, pets and powers combined. That's how badly its performing for me.
After countless hours of failing I have come to the conclusion the Ytijara is just a terrible design. It can be made to work but not work well.
I hadn't thought of it that way.
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Once again, thank you for all your testing. And I fear you're right: even a trick with Omnis in fore is not going to make it equal to a regular beam 'strafe' boat with properly re-engineered regular beam weps (although one could certainly choose such a setup, but then lose the entire, alleged purpose of this ship). As I keep saying, it simply lacks the tactical station seats to do Mines properly. And, to add insult to injury, their own rep Mine, which also goes in aft, put Mines *in front* of your ship: cute for some setups, for sure, but not exactly supporting their supposed Mine-layer event ship.
Agreed, people can keep defending it if they want.. but the Ytijara is a steaming pile. Even if the ship was 4/4 or 5/3 the rest of it's layout would still make it suck. I have theory crafted a few builds on this ship, even just standard beam boat or turret boat layouts.. and it flat out sucks either way.
If people want to convince themselves this is a good ship, then cool.. but this thing is an admiralty card.. nothing more. Outside of maybe the Samsar, you simply can't do worse.
This ship flat out sucks.
Due to the Specialization seat, console slots and bridge officer powers. With 3 mine launchers my old dreadnought is dropping more mines and each mine is hitting harder which combined does more damage than then a similar setup fitted to the Ytijara.
The same should apply to an energy boat. Take all turrets if I fit that to my old dreadnought I have extra crit and extra damage from the extra tactical slot, scatter volley goes from 105% to 110% which stacks with extra tactical slot. Plus since the scatter volley 3 is now in, scatter volley 2 slot can be swapped from something like pattern beta 2 or Kemo 3. The beta 2 or kemo that would have been in the lieutenant slot is now free for something else. It’s a chain reaction of small things that make a massive difference when combined.
For me if the ship is meant to be designed to specialize in something and its half as effective as other ships not specialize in that task. Then the ship has been very badly designed.
I have been trying now for many hours to use this ship in the Swam event and I gave up. It is so poor at shooting aft I swapped back to my ship with 3 rears which is twice the performance. For me it’s not about breaking records but I do have a minimum level in performance I find acceptable. For the content I play and I cannot get the Ytijara to push past that minimum level. While the Ytijara is more then enough for normal I tend to play on advance and Elite even standard missions are set to Elite.