The way i see it this boat is designed around fighting things behind it, and the Hur'q excel at getting up your tailpipe is swarms.
So i'm thinking rather than a full mine build why not hybridize it with some some of build to slow and hold the enemies behind you. So possibly Rapid fire mines, tractor mines and then a boat load of rear facing weapons like omni beams or turrets to keep everything shooting backwards as much as possible. Add in EWP and Reverse TBR to really mess with them.
I won't own the ship for a week at least so no idea if that is viable, but for simple normal/advanced runs pretty much any old junk seems to work these days.
I guess @angrytarg isn't wrong. The 5 aft slots are so that you have more guns firing in the rear arc to deal with the Hur'q swarmers.
Yes, I know
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
If the design isn't working for you, don't fly it. Problem solved!
Me, I've had some fun with RRW Tovan Khev XVII. It's almost as if people here have forgotten this is a carrier, and can launch frigates along with its mines, turrets, beam weapons, or what-have-you!
If the design isn't working for you, don't fly it. Problem solved!
Me, I've had some fun with RRW Tovan Khev XVII. It's almost as if people here have forgotten this is a carrier, and can launch frigates along with its mines, turrets, beam weapons, or what-have-you!
Rubbish, not flying it is not problem solved. We have not forgotten any of that, you seemed to have missed the point in that there is no real benefit from 5 rear slots. Its a unique ship layout with no real use for the unique layout. Plus people where falsely saying its a mine layer ship when clearly its not.
Yes we can work around the 5 rear limitation and fly it like any other ship but that wasn't the point. The problem was finding something unique that benefits from 5 rears. Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away.
It's almost as if people here have forgotten this is a carrier
Err, the Rye'kodan from last year is a carrier, this however is a cruiser which happens to have 1 hangar bay that doesn't make it completely a carrier.
If the design isn't working for you, don't fly it. Problem solved!
Me, I've had some fun with RRW Tovan Khev XVII. It's almost as if people here have forgotten this is a carrier, and can launch frigates along with its mines, turrets, beam weapons, or what-have-you!
Rubbish, not flying it is not problem solved. We have not forgotten any of that, you seemed to have missed the point in that there is no real benefit from 5 rear slots. Its a unique ship layout with no real use for the unique layout. Plus people where falsely saying its a mine layer ship when clearly its not.
Yes we can work around the 5 rear limitation and fly it like any other ship but that wasn't the point. The problem was finding something unique that benefits from 5 rears. Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away.
^^ Hear, hear!
And I thank you for your testing. I already suspected there was no way I could ever make a decent Mine boat out of it (and my own attempts failed drastically), but it's always nice to see an expert confirm it.
If the design isn't working for you, don't fly it. Problem solved!
Me, I've had some fun with RRW Tovan Khev XVII. It's almost as if people here have forgotten this is a carrier, and can launch frigates along with its mines, turrets, beam weapons, or what-have-you!
Rubbish, not flying it is not problem solved. We have not forgotten any of that, you seemed to have missed the point in that there is no real benefit from 5 rear slots. Its a unique ship layout with no real use for the unique layout. Plus people where falsely saying its a mine layer ship when clearly its not.
Yes we can work around the 5 rear limitation and fly it like any other ship but that wasn't the point. The problem was finding something unique that benefits from 5 rears. Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away.
Excellent reply to a very silly comment.
And for the record, it's not a Carrier, it's a Flight Deck Cruiser. Carriers have 2 hangar bays as avoozuul said.
If the design isn't working for you, don't fly it. Problem solved!
Me, I've had some fun with RRW Tovan Khev XVII. It's almost as if people here have forgotten this is a carrier, and can launch frigates along with its mines, turrets, beam weapons, or what-have-you!
Rubbish, not flying it is not problem solved. We have not forgotten any of that, you seemed to have missed the point in that there is no real benefit from 5 rear slots. Its a unique ship layout with no real use for the unique layout. Plus people where falsely saying its a mine layer ship when clearly its not.
Yes we can work around the 5 rear limitation and fly it like any other ship but that wasn't the point. The problem was finding something unique that benefits from 5 rears. Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away.
Excellent reply to a very silly comment.
And for the record, it's not a Carrier, it's a Flight Deck Cruiser. Carriers have 2 hangar bays as avoozuul said.
I think the term carrier was being used here merely because it's a ship that can launch hanger pets. We can argue the exact semantics of what "carrier" means but it does have the ability to behave as a full carrier does, so the comment was correct in that sense.
If the design isn't working for you, don't fly it. Problem solved!
Me, I've had some fun with RRW Tovan Khev XVII. It's almost as if people here have forgotten this is a carrier, and can launch frigates along with its mines, turrets, beam weapons, or what-have-you!
Rubbish, not flying it is not problem solved. We have not forgotten any of that, you seemed to have missed the point in that there is no real benefit from 5 rear slots. Its a unique ship layout with no real use for the unique layout. Plus people where falsely saying its a mine layer ship when clearly its not.
Yes we can work around the 5 rear limitation and fly it like any other ship but that wasn't the point. The problem was finding something unique that benefits from 5 rears. Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away.
Excellent reply to a very silly comment.
And for the record, it's not a Carrier, it's a Flight Deck Cruiser. Carriers have 2 hangar bays as avoozuul said.
I think the term carrier was being used here merely because it's a ship that can launch hanger pets. We can argue the exact semantics of what "carrier" means but it does have the ability to behave as a full carrier does, so the comment was correct in that sense.
The naming has actually been fairly consistent for Cryptic on this one. Cruisers with 1 hangar are 'flight deck cruisers,' cruisers generally require 2 bays to be classified as a 'carrier' and then they generally have less weapon hard points to compensate. (though this part is far less consistent.) Escorts are different as pointed out, there are many with 1 hangar bay listed as 'escort carriers.'
It's a nit pick sure, but they have been fairly consistent with this, unlike the way they throw the term 'Dreadnought' or 'Battle Cruiser' around like the words mean nothing and can just be slapped on anything they want to make them sound cool. The Ytijara is the perfect example of this. Just slap the label on there and people will think it's powerful.
Honestly though, you could probably punch holes in just about all of Cryptic's naming conventions and it's the main reason players get confused on what consoles work on what ships.
Well be glad they didn't lay it out like the HMS Rodney or HMS Nelson. All guns forward. Try to maneuver to get those Swarms in your rear arc with a Dreadnought Cruiser. You'd have to rely on your Pets and seeking Torpedoes/Mines launched fore.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Truthfully I don't have much problems with the swarm mobs of the Hur'q. Even in my Martok cruiser I throw it in to reverse and do a hard turn and it throws them off enough to get in my forward nausican torpedo arc to blow em away in a salvo.
One thing I have noticed with most previous dreadnoughts is that they usually always have 4 tactical console slots regardless of whether they are tac, sci or engi based, dreadnoughts like the tac Vonph, the sci Annorax, the engi Galaxy X in fleet form, etc. But the Vorgon ytijara, and Jem'hadar vanguard, and Cardassian sci dreadnoughts only have 3 tactical console slots.
Truthfully I don't have much problems with the swarm mobs of the Hur'q. Even in my Martok cruiser I throw it in to reverse and do a hard turn and it throws them off enough to get in my forward nausican torpedo arc to blow em away in a salvo.
Yeah, I don't have a problem with Hur'q either (and I suspect most veterans won't); but, as Sea said, 'you seemed to have missed the point in that there is no real benefit from 5 rear slots' on the new event ship. That's what this thread is about.
Slot omnis and the forward mine launcher fore, beams aft. New mobs stick to your rare and in that combo it's more rare firepower aft than any other ship has. That's not rocket science. The game is not made with nifty manoeuvres in mind but for casual players that fly forward and use autofire.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Truthfully I don't have much problems with the swarm mobs of the Hur'q. Even in my Martok cruiser I throw it in to reverse and do a hard turn and it throws them off enough to get in my forward nausican torpedo arc to blow em away in a salvo.
In other words, you find a workaround for using a ship in combat it's not ideal for.
Yet when you do it with your Martok, it's a good thing, not a "design weakness". Go fig.
Slot omnis and the forward mine launcher fore, beams aft. New mobs stick to your rare and in that combo it's more rare firepower aft than any other ship has. That's not rocket science. The game is not made with nifty manoeuvres in mind but for casual players that fly forward and use autofire.
Just for clarity sake the forward mine launcher fits in the aft only. It can be a little unclear from reading the mine launcher. Not even sure it says it fits aft only but it is aft only despite launching forwards.
Eh, the main problem with the "well, it fires at things behind it!" concept (as well as that set with the "rear damage bonus") is... all those various boff & character support abilities that only target front 90 or 180. So, sure, it's got lots of guns rear. But your other abilities aren't.
(and I'm sure this has been said multiple times in the various pages I didn't scroll through. Ah, well. )
I plan on making a turret boat. I don't really see this ship being good for much else. Mediocre beam boat maybe?
I did change beams for turrets on one of mine. It works great. With my style of play it's no worse or better than any other ship I have.
But I do owe kudos to all the people who said turret boats were fun, they're really a lot of fun. I had a ball with mine. Three piercing tetryons on the rear with a chroniton mine launcher and a web mine launcher. the destabilizing tetryon turret and the antichroniton infused tetryon turret and quantum phase torpedo launcher on front.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
> @pottsey5g said: > Just for clarity sake the forward mine launcher fits in the aft only. It can be a little unclear from reading the mine launcher. Not even sure it says it fits aft only but it is aft only despite launching forwards.
Ah thanks for clarification. I haven't played since before ViL came out and didn't know that. Still, having 5 weapons aft allows you to fire more weapons be it beams, mines or torps (turrets don't work since there are no aft cannons) at the enemies behind you. This is the unique situation the ship excels in - whether this is popular with people going for maximum efficiency and who figured the mechanics out.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
In other words, you find a workaround for using a ship in combat it's not ideal for.
Yet when you do it with your Martok, it's a good thing, not a "design weakness". Go fig.
No actually its adapting to the situation. Since they love my rear so much I figure I'd throw it in reverse and shove it in their faces which scatters them as they start their turns to get around behind me again. At this point most of them are in my side or forward firing arcs and I open up on them. It's a good tactic for someone so focused on your rear and right up in it like the swarmers are.
Load up on Tet beams and one extra console for a beam boat with mines. If you pick up the other two pieces of Tzenkethi set from the lobbi store (expensive warning) then you not only get a boost to your Tet damage at 3 piece but also Tet damage based torpedos which eat off the other Tet damage you already stacked for a nice spikey punch.
This setup should work for any of the three Vorgon ships. Not sure how overly effective it can be since I don't have the lobi for the Tzenkethi stuff and how buffed the shield drain will be from these since pure science consoles are limited. I imagine the spare console space could be used for one of those. Maybe...
A lot of the weapons and things are at Mark 12. The warp core is a fleet core I use on my regular ship. For the most part this thing flies like a beam boat but the ship feels more like an obstacle than a help in a fight. It's workable but not something I really would want to fly. I could put my Disruptor build on it and do a bit better but again I'd be fighting the ship design after flying it already.
Load up on Tet beams and one extra console for a beam boat with mines. If you pick up the other two pieces of Tzenkethi set from the lobbi store (expensive warning) then you not only get a boost to your Tet damage at 3 piece but also Tet damage based torpedos which eat off the other Tet damage you already stacked for a nice spikey punch.
This setup should work for any of the three Vorgon ships. Not sure how overly effective it can be since I don't have the lobi for the Tzenkethi stuff and how buffed the shield drain will be from these since pure science consoles are limited. I imagine the spare console space could be used for one of those. Maybe...
A lot of the weapons and things are at Mark 12. The warp core is a fleet core I use on my regular ship. For the most part this thing flies like a beam boat but the ship feels more like an obstacle than a help in a fight. It's workable but not something I really would want to fly. I could put my Disruptor build on it and do a bit better but again I'd be fighting the ship design after flying it already.
While i like the Vaadwaur cluster Torpedo, in my experience it does not work well with the Nukara mines. The Trico blast tends to clear whatever minefield you have sown.
It's probably better to use the Transphasic or Chronoton cluster torpedoes.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Load up on Tet beams and one extra console for a beam boat with mines. If you pick up the other two pieces of Tzenkethi set from the lobbi store (expensive warning) then you not only get a boost to your Tet damage at 3 piece but also Tet damage based torpedos which eat off the other Tet damage you already stacked for a nice spikey punch.
This setup should work for any of the three Vorgon ships. Not sure how overly effective it can be since I don't have the lobi for the Tzenkethi stuff and how buffed the shield drain will be from these since pure science consoles are limited. I imagine the spare console space could be used for one of those. Maybe...
A lot of the weapons and things are at Mark 12. The warp core is a fleet core I use on my regular ship. For the most part this thing flies like a beam boat but the ship feels more like an obstacle than a help in a fight. It's workable but not something I really would want to fly. I could put my Disruptor build on it and do a bit better but again I'd be fighting the ship design after flying it already.
While i like the Vaadwaur cluster Torpedo, in my experience it does not work well with the Nukara mines. The Trico blast tends to clear whatever minefield you have sown.
It's probably better to use the Transphasic or Chronoton cluster torpedoes.
Yeah I've been staggering them so those two don't interfere with each other like that. I alternate cluster+gravity well and then web mines after the cluster goes off.
I can't see what the complaints are about. Having no issues with this ship in a Tet build using pretty much what the above have posted and the Pre-Emin Set and pretty much laying waste. This is not a ship for the lazy, to sit there and just fire at stuff. I think it's great fun!
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Comments
So i'm thinking rather than a full mine build why not hybridize it with some some of build to slow and hold the enemies behind you. So possibly Rapid fire mines, tractor mines and then a boat load of rear facing weapons like omni beams or turrets to keep everything shooting backwards as much as possible. Add in EWP and Reverse TBR to really mess with them.
I won't own the ship for a week at least so no idea if that is viable, but for simple normal/advanced runs pretty much any old junk seems to work these days.
Yes, I know
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Me, I've had some fun with RRW Tovan Khev XVII. It's almost as if people here have forgotten this is a carrier, and can launch frigates along with its mines, turrets, beam weapons, or what-have-you!
Yes we can work around the 5 rear limitation and fly it like any other ship but that wasn't the point. The problem was finding something unique that benefits from 5 rears. Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away.
^^ Hear, hear!
And I thank you for your testing. I already suspected there was no way I could ever make a decent Mine boat out of it (and my own attempts failed drastically), but it's always nice to see an expert confirm it.
Excellent reply to a very silly comment.
And for the record, it's not a Carrier, it's a Flight Deck Cruiser. Carriers have 2 hangar bays as avoozuul said.
I think the term carrier was being used here merely because it's a ship that can launch hanger pets. We can argue the exact semantics of what "carrier" means but it does have the ability to behave as a full carrier does, so the comment was correct in that sense.
The naming has actually been fairly consistent for Cryptic on this one. Cruisers with 1 hangar are 'flight deck cruisers,' cruisers generally require 2 bays to be classified as a 'carrier' and then they generally have less weapon hard points to compensate. (though this part is far less consistent.) Escorts are different as pointed out, there are many with 1 hangar bay listed as 'escort carriers.'
It's a nit pick sure, but they have been fairly consistent with this, unlike the way they throw the term 'Dreadnought' or 'Battle Cruiser' around like the words mean nothing and can just be slapped on anything they want to make them sound cool. The Ytijara is the perfect example of this. Just slap the label on there and people will think it's powerful.
Honestly though, you could probably punch holes in just about all of Cryptic's naming conventions and it's the main reason players get confused on what consoles work on what ships.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yeah, I don't have a problem with Hur'q either (and I suspect most veterans won't); but, as Sea said, 'you seemed to have missed the point in that there is no real benefit from 5 rear slots' on the new event ship. That's what this thread is about.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Yet when you do it with your Martok, it's a good thing, not a "design weakness". Go fig.
(and I'm sure this has been said multiple times in the various pages I didn't scroll through. Ah, well.
I did change beams for turrets on one of mine. It works great. With my style of play it's no worse or better than any other ship I have.
But I do owe kudos to all the people who said turret boats were fun, they're really a lot of fun. I had a ball with mine. Three piercing tetryons on the rear with a chroniton mine launcher and a web mine launcher. the destabilizing tetryon turret and the antichroniton infused tetryon turret and quantum phase torpedo launcher on front.
> Just for clarity sake the forward mine launcher fits in the aft only. It can be a little unclear from reading the mine launcher. Not even sure it says it fits aft only but it is aft only despite launching forwards.
Ah thanks for clarification. I haven't played since before ViL came out and didn't know that. Still, having 5 weapons aft allows you to fire more weapons be it beams, mines or torps (turrets don't work since there are no aft cannons) at the enemies behind you. This is the unique situation the ship excels in - whether this is popular with people going for maximum efficiency and who figured the mechanics out.
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No actually its adapting to the situation. Since they love my rear so much I figure I'd throw it in reverse and shove it in their faces which scatters them as they start their turns to get around behind me again. At this point most of them are in my side or forward firing arcs and I open up on them. It's a good tactic for someone so focused on your rear and right up in it like the swarmers are.
Front
2x https://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Space_Weapons (Fleet Tet beam arrays CrtDx3)
1x https://sto.gamepedia.com/Nukara_Appropriated_Munitions (Beam bank)
Back
1x https://sto.gamepedia.com/Nukara_Appropriated_Munitions (Mine)
1x https://sto.gamepedia.com/Vaadwaur_Cluster_Torpedo
1x https://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Space_Weapons (Fleet Tet beam arrays CrtDx3)
1x https://sto.gamepedia.com/Omega_Adapted_Borg_Technology_Set#Kinetic_Cutting_Beam
1x Crafted Omni Tet beam array
Consoles
3x Vorgon ship consoles
1x https://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Science_-_Emitter_Refocuser
1x https://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Universal_-_Sticky_Web
1x https://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Universal_-_Plasmonic_Leech
1x https://sto.gamepedia.com/Romulan_Singularity_Harness#Console_-_Zero-Point_Energy_Conduit
3x https://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Tactical_Consoles#Spire
1x https://sto.gamepedia.com/Nukara_Appropriated_Munitions (Console)
Hanger
Elite Vorgon Pets
A lot of the weapons and things are at Mark 12. The warp core is a fleet core I use on my regular ship. For the most part this thing flies like a beam boat but the ship feels more like an obstacle than a help in a fight. It's workable but not something I really would want to fly. I could put my Disruptor build on it and do a bit better but again I'd be fighting the ship design after flying it already.
While i like the Vaadwaur cluster Torpedo, in my experience it does not work well with the Nukara mines. The Trico blast tends to clear whatever minefield you have sown.
It's probably better to use the Transphasic or Chronoton cluster torpedoes.
Yeah I've been staggering them so those two don't interfere with each other like that. I alternate cluster+gravity well and then web mines after the cluster goes off.