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Hangar pets unable to keep up with mothership, possible causes and fixes proposed
magitek3
Member Posts: 18 Arc User
I don't know if this belongs in bugs or in feedback, but it feels like a big enough issue to be considered a bug.
Hangar pets of all stripes seem to be unable to keep up with their motherships in any type of combat mission, resulting in the pets being fashionably late to any given fight instead of the first into battle. Sometimes they don't even catch up before the fight is over.
I've been testing this a little bit, and the issue seems to boil down to two compounding issues. First, the conditions under which pets will enter combat mode are broad. Secondly, entering combat mode turns them into snails. There's also a minor 3rd component involving slower pets being sluggish at following the player outside of combat, making the other issues worse.
Pets will enter combat mode whenever the player does, and in Aggressive mode they'll enter it if the player has an enemy targeted and is within their engagement distance from the player (regardless of how far away the pet itself might be). When this happens, pets will drop out of full impulse if they're currently using it, which usually drops them several clicks beyond weapons range. Also, pets in combat mode move at some fraction of full throttle. The end result is that you're fighting an enemy group, alone, while your pets slow-boat it to the party.
Fighters are less susceptible to this than frigates because of their speed. They're more maneuverable, so they engage full impulse right when the player does and start out closer to the action when combat starts. Furthermore, their combat speed is higher so they catch up faster. They still end up joining the battle after the player does, however. Jem'Hadar Vanguard wingmen are even less affected by the issue because they're always in Escort mode and their combat speed is extremely fast (also you can teleport them). Frigates are often hopelessly slow to engage FI due to their turn rate, and can be 30km behind the player before activating it.
I can think of a couple solutions, either of which (or both together) would fix the problem.
First, add some kind of teleport mechanic. Automatically teleport pets next to the player when they enter combat, or add a button to do so (like the Vanguard wingmen skills). Maybe call it something like "Emergency Recall Warp", and give it a warp-in effect. Alternatively/additionally, having an automatic teleport when they player exits full impulse might also be useful.
Second, changes to movement behavior outside of combat, paired with tweaks to combat mode. Out of combat, pets should stick to their carrier like space glue. Give pets an out-of-combat boost to speed and turn rate so they're better at engaging FI immediately after the player does, and better at catching up quickly. If a pet is more than ~3km away from the mothership it should prioritize getting back within that radius ASAP at best speed. If the player goes to full impulse, pets should not disengage their own FI unil they're in that range. This "get back to the player ASAP" script should be mutually exclusive with combat mode. Once the script is triggered, the pet will not engage enemies, enter combat mode, or do anything else until they're next to their carrier again. After that, the pet can check for enemies in range, player targets in aggressive stance, whatever. The point is that pets should be in position within a couple of seconds of the player exiting full impulse and/or engaging enemies.
Whenever I come back to STO after a couple months off, carriers are always the ships I want to fly the most. Then I notice my pets are still never where I need them, and they become the ships I enjoy flying the least. I'm always hopeful, though, and maybe we can put this issue to bed.
Hangar pets of all stripes seem to be unable to keep up with their motherships in any type of combat mission, resulting in the pets being fashionably late to any given fight instead of the first into battle. Sometimes they don't even catch up before the fight is over.
I've been testing this a little bit, and the issue seems to boil down to two compounding issues. First, the conditions under which pets will enter combat mode are broad. Secondly, entering combat mode turns them into snails. There's also a minor 3rd component involving slower pets being sluggish at following the player outside of combat, making the other issues worse.
Pets will enter combat mode whenever the player does, and in Aggressive mode they'll enter it if the player has an enemy targeted and is within their engagement distance from the player (regardless of how far away the pet itself might be). When this happens, pets will drop out of full impulse if they're currently using it, which usually drops them several clicks beyond weapons range. Also, pets in combat mode move at some fraction of full throttle. The end result is that you're fighting an enemy group, alone, while your pets slow-boat it to the party.
Fighters are less susceptible to this than frigates because of their speed. They're more maneuverable, so they engage full impulse right when the player does and start out closer to the action when combat starts. Furthermore, their combat speed is higher so they catch up faster. They still end up joining the battle after the player does, however. Jem'Hadar Vanguard wingmen are even less affected by the issue because they're always in Escort mode and their combat speed is extremely fast (also you can teleport them). Frigates are often hopelessly slow to engage FI due to their turn rate, and can be 30km behind the player before activating it.
I can think of a couple solutions, either of which (or both together) would fix the problem.
First, add some kind of teleport mechanic. Automatically teleport pets next to the player when they enter combat, or add a button to do so (like the Vanguard wingmen skills). Maybe call it something like "Emergency Recall Warp", and give it a warp-in effect. Alternatively/additionally, having an automatic teleport when they player exits full impulse might also be useful.
Second, changes to movement behavior outside of combat, paired with tweaks to combat mode. Out of combat, pets should stick to their carrier like space glue. Give pets an out-of-combat boost to speed and turn rate so they're better at engaging FI immediately after the player does, and better at catching up quickly. If a pet is more than ~3km away from the mothership it should prioritize getting back within that radius ASAP at best speed. If the player goes to full impulse, pets should not disengage their own FI unil they're in that range. This "get back to the player ASAP" script should be mutually exclusive with combat mode. Once the script is triggered, the pet will not engage enemies, enter combat mode, or do anything else until they're next to their carrier again. After that, the pet can check for enemies in range, player targets in aggressive stance, whatever. The point is that pets should be in position within a couple of seconds of the player exiting full impulse and/or engaging enemies.
Whenever I come back to STO after a couple months off, carriers are always the ships I want to fly the most. Then I notice my pets are still never where I need them, and they become the ships I enjoy flying the least. I'm always hopeful, though, and maybe we can put this issue to bed.
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The elite baSro' frigates for the Durgath Temporal Heavy Dreadnaught Cruiser are plagued by that issue : they lag several kilometers behind me and never seem to use full impulse to keep up with the ship, thus ending up being not as efficient as they should be in combat.
And when you know these cost 100,000 Fleet Credits and 40,950 Refined dilithium per unit, it hurts...
Not necessarily. I also use the Breen Sarr Theln carrier with elite frigates on my main, and those pets have no problem keeping up with my ship 100% of the time. It seems the bug only affects some pets.
Basically change the current 4 carrier commands we have into 5 with behavioral changes/additions:
Strike Groups Formation: An additional Attack command's name, with newer behavior that picks targets of opportunity but never fighters, or targetable mines, their goal is to strafe: punch holes in shields and take out targets. Symbol of a stylized V/arrow with a crosshair that does strafing runs in actual grouped "wings" and always comes back to the carrier to "regroup" (a minor heal to shields, hull, and slight power buff). Once they have a target they will continue to fly to and from the carrier till whatever target the group has focused on has either been destroyed or knocked down some health amount and another has been picked. (Increased Accuracy and Critical Chance)
Attack Intercept Formation: New version of current power, replaces Generic Attack Command(symbol modified some...add a few dots around crosshairs): behavioral change, command now harasses the target/group you are attacking, meaning they will Intercept, harass targets, but break off to target other fighters and targetable objects---think of how Tholian Mesh Weavers always seem to shoot down your pets, targetable torpedoes, or mines before they can get distance or even disperse and activate, yet are attacking you... (Increased Speed and Accuracy)
Defend Satellite Formation: A behavioral change to add to the replace current Defensive Intercept command. Pets encircle your ship, not follow, allowing them to cover better than before, and fly further away than currently as allowing to Intercept. Bay 1 would have them fly clockwise, Bay 2 counter clockwise. This Is not just a pure defensive, if your currently are targeting and attacking a target close by, they will strike that target when passing during their run, but not break their main goal of defending the carrier. (Increase to Defense and Accuracy)
Escort Satellite Formation: A behavioral change to add to the replace current Escort command's behavior, matches one mentioned above, but for ally targeted and locked till new carrier command. (Increased Defense, Accuracy, and Speed)
Combat Box Formation: Replaces Dock/Recall, as half the time Dock/Recall never works (seriously sometimes some fighters never dock), and the docked ships never propagate from map transitions there is no reason for a dock command.... symbol is a square with fighter shapes around faction symbol, , this keeps ships in aggressive state, they keep formation with your ship, and keep fairly close, they get a buff to defense, Critical Damage, and receive increased health and shield regen. When damaged, pets auto dock if possible to heal fast.
Because of how Pets are handled I rather they shift to a recharge state for when they are destroyed/damaged heavy, much like how they are for saucer/ship separations. An "Auto build new fighter" type thing. Lets say 2 of a wing are down, the singular is still alive, It comes back to the ship and docks, and holds till two new ones are built/launched by you. And maybe with the way they level up, assuming the Fighter say had 5 stars, that could be used to either make all 3 when launched same level (say 2 stars each assuming it takes more "XP" when hitting 4/5 stars for pets) OR have that pay out to buff other pets, call the buff "Avenge the Fallen" or something, must only occur when said surviving pets auto dock, maybe +5 Damage per fallen pet not returned with left wing, only active when a pet survives and makes it back to dock.
These are just ideas, I have no idea how hard it would be for them to code this...just that they would be far better than what we have now, and would help lower down the Gnat farm we have now.
Their movement speed makes it worse (frigates follow more poorly than fighters), but the bigger issue is that they drop out of full impulse at the merest hint of combat, and often won't engage impulse at all if combat has happened recently.
Kaggert's got some good ideas, but they seem development-heavy. The more I play with my Jem'Hadar toon, the more I'm convinced that copy/pasting the vanguard wingmen behavior would be a decent fix. If they get out of position, they get back into it very quickly. If they're on the wrong vector when the player hits full impulse and drop behind, they always engage their own impulse and don't drop out of it until they catch up, even if the player gets into combat before then.
They could add the 3 main commands wingmen have to apply to ship separation consoles, let alone the summon heavy attack craft that currently some ships have including the Jem'Hadar one. And they could also add it to the Fleet Support Command to a degree; one could also somewhat assume maybe to the Photonic Fleet, and dare I say any console that summons a clone of your ship but as a one time pick option of what you want it to do (as it is only a temporary object). Examples:
Voth Phase Decoy: Wouldn't be able to do the buff/heal thing, but could be made aggressive to a target in particular vs drawing argo of multiple, or instead of weapon fire, uses some sci stuff to debuff, but still drawing argo.
Saucer/Chevron/Dual Vector/MVAE Seperation: Can heal, Debuff/Control, Attack>>>same as Gamma Vanguard Wingmen.
Here is the thing, Vanguard Wingmen are basically one of the things we have wanted in game for a long time, the ability to have more than one ship at our command in combat, much like how we have ground crew. For Cryptic to have found it in their heart to add this mechanic and to get it to work as good as it does, it makes me hope to some future changes to the space combat in terms of pets; something that has always been fairly weaker than it could have been had they had the time and money from get go.
Also Magitek3 I think this thread is more Feedback than Bug. Might want to see if a Mod wants to shove it to Feedback.