As the title says... I've been wondering, was there any mention of it from Cryptic? The engine is pretty dated now, would be awesome if they actually came up with something more up to date.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,667Community Moderator
With the speggetti code we got and how small the Dev team is?
I doubt it.
Even if WoW updated... you can't hold every game to the same standard because of one thing.
Available resources.
Cryptic doesn't have the resources Blizzard has. So any engine updates won't be full on, if any. It will probably be more model and texture enhancements like we've been getting. They've remodeled and retextured some of the canon ships when we got T6 versions. They've done an excelent job with the new ships...
Do what you can with what you got.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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Updated engine, not a new game...
So far improvements to the existing engine have gone pretty good. Some of the newer missions are looking really nice with excellent graphics. Whatever they've improved seems to be working.
Same diff protoneus, trying tp hook a new engine to this game won't work, it would require rebuilding the game, which would be STO 2.0 by definition.
A new engine may be even less feasible. With a new game developers make iterative improvements to core systems. Take for example Halo 1 through Halo 4 (all were built on the same platform Bungie developed and simply kept adding onto.) A strictly hypothetical STO 2 (for the record: devs have said no to this) wouldn't dump Cryptic's engine entirely. It would be improved (as we saw with Neverwinter.)
Replacing the engine adds to the technical complexity of the project (everything now has to be rebuilt) and that complication can mean that simply hitting an old par takes considerable effort. Just take Mass Effect Andromeda. Hey, new engine! Was it a magic panacea for the series' problems? Nope, because whatever Frostbite did for the game it also introduced a host of other development challenges that Bioware wasn't able to deal with in full.
So now consider a new engine, made by a small developer, for STO 2. Whatever it would hypothetically do, it would NOT make the game objectively better. It might hypothetically allow for some specific improvements but at a significantly greater cost (precluding other systems and content) and with a certainty (it's software development!) of introducing new bugs and limitations of indeterminate scale. It's a costly lateral move, best undertaken when there is a definite problem with a dev using their current engine on their next project (see. Halo 5.) Otherwise, you build on what you have.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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As the title says... I've been wondering, was there any mention of it from Cryptic? The engine is pretty dated now, would be awesome if they actually came up with something more up to date.
Now now, theoretical physics has yet to safely describe events of a negative probability. They could invert and push other impossible outcomes into reality.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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My concern when people ask about a new engine, similar things that Brent Justice asks for, I start to shudder because it would affect me being able to play STO, since with the change from DX9 to DX11, I have had a lot of problems with playing missions and DOFFIng. I have crashed many times DOFFing or playing a mission, even though I have set the settings as close to the ones on DX9 as possible, even using Lighting 1.0 instead of Lighting 2.0 which kept on causing more crashes even though my system specs says that it can work on my computer as well as it being too bright. So no to new engine and they need to reexamine what they did changing from DirectX9 to DIrectX11 so these problems can be reduced or eliminated. Finally, hoping that when the 64-bit version comes through it will solve some of these problems I have been having. Thanks.
> @protoneous said:
> azrael605 wrote: »
>
> Sto 2.0 is a frequently created thread.
>
>
>
> Updated engine, not a new game...
> So far improvements to the existing engine have gone pretty good. Some of the newer missions are looking really nice with excellent graphics. Whatever they've improved seems to be working.
Same diff protoneus, trying tp hook a new engine to this game won't work, it would require rebuilding the game, which would be STO 2.0 by definition.
I'm not a game developer so I don't know what it would involve. Think the OP was just asking an innocent question is all.
Good thing he didn't ask for a new game engine to improve PvP while criticizing the devs and stating the game was P2W lol.
As far a completely new engine, the Devs have said that just getting the art moved over would far to costly, with months of time for the art teams to move things over. Just 'Lighting 2.0' backlogged them for a fair bit of time, and they cut a lot of corners to get it mostly working for the console releases.
Finally, hoping that when the 64-bit version comes through it will solve some of these problems I have been having. Thanks.
It's already out and defaults to 64-bit on my system. It'll show up after you've entered in your password to go the second screen of Launcher under "Options" to "Use 32-bit Client"(which is probably unchecked).
The developers already talk about this on a live stream months ago. The chances of us getting a new game are less than 0%. Getting a new game engine means the developers will have to rewrite the code from stretch. In order to do that they have to put off content for years.
As others have pointed out replacing the game engine is like replacing the foundations of a building it can't really be done without replacing everything on top of it also.
Even Blizzard didn't replace World of Warcraft's engine, they simply have updated it over time and it wouldn't surprise me at all if WoW's engine has several unsolveble "legacy" issues that prevent it from becoming more like modern MMOs gameplaywise. Also Blizzard has loads more resources then Cryptic.
So TL:DR replacing game engine of a pre-existing game is so hard that in 99.999% of the time it's simply not worth the effort.
There isn't really a need to do so. They can still generate new content for this one just fine, and they also make updates to the engine as often as they reasonably can (Lighting 2.0 was the last big jump, and now they are moving to a 64 Bit update of the engine). A new engine would always be more work than that, and halt development in other areas.
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it was not stated anywhere by the op that he or she is even looking for a version 2 of the game, just an updated or upgraded engine which doesn't require a completely new game.
As the title says... I've been wondering, was there any mention of it from Cryptic? The engine is pretty dated now, would be awesome if they actually came up with something more up to date.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
it was not stated anywhere by the op that he or she is even looking for a version 2 of the game, just an updated or upgraded engine which doesn't require a completely new game.
You mean like lighting 2.0 and progressive improvements to character models, environment art, and ships? Look, we understand you but understand us when we say that an "engine upgrade" that doesn't fall into what Cryptic is already doing is a monumental undertaking equal to or greater than a second game (given that you're not only looking at replacing content [built for current STO] but also basic systems). The OP may not have intended to bring STO 2 into discussion but it's a handy reference point to add context to the topic. This is not a small proposal or one that is likely to happen (answer to both from devs: they have no plans to replace the STO engine or the game itself.)
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Best we can hope for is that the 64bit engine is done with room to expand and improve stuff over time rather than the more probable bare minimum to get it running.
Maybe lighting 3.0 where risa gets its day night cycle back, even though the dil asteroid already has the varying light cycle which could be adapted for the risa map.
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I doubt it.
Even if WoW updated... you can't hold every game to the same standard because of one thing.
Available resources.
Cryptic doesn't have the resources Blizzard has. So any engine updates won't be full on, if any. It will probably be more model and texture enhancements like we've been getting. They've remodeled and retextured some of the canon ships when we got T6 versions. They've done an excelent job with the new ships...
Do what you can with what you got.
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Tacofangs and his team do excelent work.
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colored text = mod mode
So far improvements to the existing engine have gone pretty good. Some of the newer missions are looking really nice with excellent graphics. Whatever they've improved seems to be working. Thumbs up
A new engine may be even less feasible. With a new game developers make iterative improvements to core systems. Take for example Halo 1 through Halo 4 (all were built on the same platform Bungie developed and simply kept adding onto.) A strictly hypothetical STO 2 (for the record: devs have said no to this) wouldn't dump Cryptic's engine entirely. It would be improved (as we saw with Neverwinter.)
Replacing the engine adds to the technical complexity of the project (everything now has to be rebuilt) and that complication can mean that simply hitting an old par takes considerable effort. Just take Mass Effect Andromeda. Hey, new engine! Was it a magic panacea for the series' problems? Nope, because whatever Frostbite did for the game it also introduced a host of other development challenges that Bioware wasn't able to deal with in full.
So now consider a new engine, made by a small developer, for STO 2. Whatever it would hypothetically do, it would NOT make the game objectively better. It might hypothetically allow for some specific improvements but at a significantly greater cost (precluding other systems and content) and with a certainty (it's software development!) of introducing new bugs and limitations of indeterminate scale. It's a costly lateral move, best undertaken when there is a definite problem with a dev using their current engine on their next project (see. Halo 5.) Otherwise, you build on what you have.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
The chances are less than zero.
Now now, theoretical physics has yet to safely describe events of a negative probability. They could invert and push other impossible outcomes into reality.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Good thing he didn't ask for a new game engine to improve PvP while criticizing the devs and stating the game was P2W lol.
It's already out and defaults to 64-bit on my system. It'll show up after you've entered in your password to go the second screen of Launcher under "Options" to "Use 32-bit Client"(which is probably unchecked).
Even Blizzard didn't replace World of Warcraft's engine, they simply have updated it over time and it wouldn't surprise me at all if WoW's engine has several unsolveble "legacy" issues that prevent it from becoming more like modern MMOs gameplaywise. Also Blizzard has loads more resources then Cryptic.
So TL:DR replacing game engine of a pre-existing game is so hard that in 99.999% of the time it's simply not worth the effort.
I see no purpose of prolonging this discussion further so I'm asking any moderators out there to close it. Thanks.
it was not stated anywhere by the op that he or she is even looking for a version 2 of the game, just an updated or upgraded engine which doesn't require a completely new game.
again there is no mention of a new engine by the op which are you jumping the gun a bit by suggesting it is the case.
For reference:
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
You mean like lighting 2.0 and progressive improvements to character models, environment art, and ships? Look, we understand you but understand us when we say that an "engine upgrade" that doesn't fall into what Cryptic is already doing is a monumental undertaking equal to or greater than a second game (given that you're not only looking at replacing content [built for current STO] but also basic systems). The OP may not have intended to bring STO 2 into discussion but it's a handy reference point to add context to the topic. This is not a small proposal or one that is likely to happen (answer to both from devs: they have no plans to replace the STO engine or the game itself.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Maybe lighting 3.0 where risa gets its day night cycle back, even though the dil asteroid already has the varying light cycle which could be adapted for the risa map.
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