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coqaunandos117
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Post edited by coqaunandos117#2576 on
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And I am vexxed by people saying that others should pay $100's of dollars just to line another player's pocket. At the end of the day, if everyone took the 'sell keys for EC' advice, then there would be no ships to buy.
The most important things to remember when it comes to lockboxes, don't listen to other player's conception of the odd's, don't let them berate you for supporting the game by buying keys to open boxes, AND ALWAYS keep to a limit.
Personally, I will buy keys to open boxes and sell the goodies. If I win a ship then YAY! I've numerous ships and never spend more than £30 a quarter on keys. Eventually I earn more than enough EC (About 40 mill from Admiralty and the rest from making stuff and selling lockbox stuff) to buy a ship out-right. I will never bow down to ridicule, nor 1.5 Billion EC requests.
Step 1: Throw away your life by spending a thousand hours a week doing nothing but running battlezones and admirality, grinding dilithium to the point that you spend more time grinding than playing.
Step 2: Post a "guide" on how amazing it is that NOBODY has EVER thought of doing this before.
Since I already addressed that false argument in the OP, I'm just going to copy/paste what I said:
"Lastly, a common misconception: if everybody who wanted these ships just bought them on the exchange, no one would be opening boxes and there would be no ships for sale in the first place. Here is why that is wrong: first, 'everybody' will never do the same thing. But beyond that, ask yourself this question: why are there ships for sell on the exchange in the first place. The answer is because the people selling them didn't actually want those ships. If they did, they would have kept them. Those people were opening boxes to get something they wanted besides the ship. Maybe lobi; maybe other things. Either way, there will always be ships for sell on the exchange because there are people winning ships who don't want to keep them for themselves. They would rather have the EC by selling it to you."
It's not about anyone's "conception". Numerous tests have been run that have given an approximate understanding of the statistical odds. Someone opened 10,000 packs on tribble once and posted their results. That's not about anyone's opinion, those are just stats.
No one is berating anyone. As far as supporting the game, buying zen also supports the game, so people who buy zen to sell keys are also supporting the game.
That's great. Do whatever makes you happy. But plenty of people have spent hundreds of dollars and not gotten a ship, and were NOT happy. This post is to try to help people avoid that situation by giving them a guaranteed way to get the ship they want with no risk.
Actually, that really has nothing to do with the points I discussed.
- The odds really are 1:250 for lock boxes and 1:100 for R&D packs. We have years of empirical evidence from people opening thousands of boxes and packs to back this up, you offer "trust no one!" as gut-feeling-based "alternative evidence."
- Buying from the Exchange IS SUPPORTING THE GAME. Those ships did not appear by magic. Someone gave Cryptic the money for 250 keys (on average) for each lock box ship on the Exchange. Just like when you use the Dil exchange to turn Dil into Zen, someone gave Cryptic money to get that magic Zen.
Dilithium can be made with very little effort by the above doffing etc and completing reps, tours and admiralty tracks. My main has several weeks worth from just that. None of those things require much effort as nearly everything involves a timer of some sort.
The main problem with people is impatience. Now now now, just wait. Slow and steady wins the race. I buy keys with loose change from buying zen ships and maybe toss some down a lockbox and sell some. Best thing I won was an free upgrade T5 (Voth bastion) which I kept and use now.
The game doesn't HAVE to be a job.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
There are other threads on that, search for them and join the horse-beating. My TL;DR:
Lock boxes are not currently regulated as gambling according to the laws of the territories in which STO operates.
Lock boxes ARE gambling according to common English definitions of the word. The reward is based on chance and varies from a ship down to useless junk. If you are trying for the ship you have a 249 out of 250 chance of losing (getting no ship).
Yeah, just adding to dave: whether boxes are 'technically' gambling or not is irrelevant to my actual point. If the sole reason you are opening a box is to get a ship, then you are effectively gambling. And if that's what you want to do, cool. I am simply trying to make sure people know that is not your only option, and that you have an alternative that actually gives a 100% chance to get the ship.
If you don't like the ship it means you still have it boxed up on holodeck for selling on the exchange, for a profit of course.
See the Pro Tip! under step 5.
I wrote the post in addition to your own. I wasn't arguing against it.
I'll be clear on this however. Someone opening 10,000 boxes on Tribble proves nothing. Observed odds only give a base indicator. I know the odds of drawing a T6 ship are not 0.25% as claimed. A Dev a couple of years back confirmed on a stream that the chance of drawing a T6 was 1%. Again, opening boxes on Tribble or Holodeck can't prove or disprove it and in a post a couple of months ago I addressed how RNG works with computers. You can draw 10 ships from 10 boxes or none from a million. The odds do not change!
You're 'guaranteed' method is also not guaranteed either. It still requires people to open boxes. Encouraging people to spend more money than they are willing to by this method is more reprehenisble. And yes, people do berate others for opening boxes with keys, and I see this alot, and they resort to tell people to use this 'guaranteed' method.
For example:-
"Hey guys, I just spent £30 on keys for boxes. Gonna see if I can win a ship."
"You're stupid for opening boxes with keys. Spend £150 on keys and sell them for EC and you're guaranteed to get that ship."
"There's no ships I want on the exchange.........."
"Just wait. Someone will post one."
A few people are quick to call Cryptic out for the Lockboxes, which are a "guaranteed prize raffle" (You always win something), and claim it's a waste of money, whilst also encouraging people to spend many times more just to line their own pockets. Lockboxes, whilst might fit the dictionary definition of 'Gambling to see which prize you get (But you can't lose, hence Guranteed Prize Raffle)', doesn't not fit the actual legal definition of 'Gambling to win a real world stake with a chance that the player will lose everything'. Magic:The Gathering, Pokemon, Sticker albums all use the same model, where you buy a packet of cards and hope you win what you're after.
Opening boxes benefits Cryptic and the player (who can make EC from selling items, earning Lobi, and winning stuff) way more than buying keys to sell for EC, which benefits Cryptic and the selling player leaving the original player with just a ship and an empty wallet. That selling player then goes happy to the exchange to buy keys for EC and then goes and wins many more ships and items. This is morally worse than what people claim Cryptic are doing.
For example:-
Open Box method:- £30 on Keys. I possibly win a ship, but make millions of EC, a trait or two, plus weapons.
'Guaranteed' method:- £150 on Keys. I get a ship but nothing else. No Lobi, no EC, no traits, no weapons, no consoles. I get a single ship. The player selling the ship gets hundreds of millions of EC, and potentially gets more stuff than the player spending £30!!
I hope my point is made sufficiently.
Yeah but worth repeating for folk who skimmed the initial post. (says I trying to hide the fact I might not have read it entirely at 3.20am)
Using tribble is probably the most important thing to know when buying any ship in sto given that there's no other way to see what the ship is actually like to fly. But its almost a vital step for the per character vessels.
Wrong. I can absolutely buy a Vanguard right now on the exchange if I want to. I mean, it's there. Lots of them. There is no "risk" that I won't get it if I have the EC to buy it.
Of course people have to open boxes; that's where the ships come from. But the point is that all of those ships currently sitting on the exchange are being sold by people who didn't want them. Therefore, that proves we have people opening boxes who don't want the ship. That means the people who DO want the ship can buy it from those people.
I never said people should spend more than they are willing. I never said anything remotely like that.
That has nothing to do with me or my thread. I am not berating anyone for their choice, so you cannot try to blame me for something someone else said. Do you want me to try to blame you for something dumb someone said that you didn't?
What ship are you looking for that is not on the exchange? Seriously, tell me. Any lock box ship I have even wanted and gotten was on the exchange. But tell me the one you can't find on the exchange and we'll talk about that.
Whether boxes are 'technically' gambling or not is irrelevant to my actual point. If the sole reason you are opening a box is to get a ship, then you are effectively gambling. And if that's what you want to do, cool. I am simply trying to make sure people know that is not your only option, and that you have an alternative that actually gives a 100% chance to get the ship.
Look, we obviously have different preferences, and that's fine. If you prefer to drop a fixed amount of money and risk not getting the ship, that's fine. That doesn't make you dumb or anything else. I simply prefer to use a method that guarantees I get the ship, even if it costs a higher amount than your fixed amount.
The problem, unfortunately, is there are many people who don't have a fixed amount. They don't have the self control to stop themselves at $30 if they haven't won the ship. Over the years I have seen many posts from people who spent hundreds of dollars, gotten no ship, and feel horrible. My thread is aimed more at that type of person than at you. I want people to at least understand they have a way to get the ship that doesn't involve any risk of not getting the ship.
Spending $138 dollars, while admittedly high to get a ship in a video game, is still better than spending $300 and not getting the ship at all, which is the boat many people have found themselves in.
I can't speak to anyone else's motivation, and neither can you. But I can speak for myself, and I have no stake in the market at this point. I got my ship on day one and therefore have what I personally want. For most people that's all they care about.
But I was actually motivated to write this thread after reading a post in a different thread. I won't show the poster's name, but this is what they said:
I genuinely feel sorry for that person, and wish they didn't feel the way they did. So hopefully this thread will at least help someone else from feeling that way.
Oh so you only need to do nothing but grind for close to a year to get the ship...
That's kinda like saying it's not hard when you buy the winning $1,000,000 lottery ticket. Yet when 999,999 others buy the same winning ticket suddenly it's a lot more harder to get the larger amount of return.
I've found the easiest way to get lockbox ships without gambling is to sell the keys to gamblers and use the money from that to buy the ship you want.
[ CITATION NEEDED ]
Please provide some evidence for this wild claim.
I have created and posted agreement with threads like this for years. I have never sold a T6 lock box, lobi or pack ship just a couple of the cheap T5 consolation prizes.
I have however read at least a dozen "I spent $100 - $500 and did not get a ship" threads. Some of us feel empathy and want to help people like this before they make that mistake.
Yes, everyone is out to get you! Eek!
How do we know you're not an Undine just pretending to be a conspiracy theorist? The weak shall perish (after opening lock boxes)!
I enjoyed your OP. Very well thought out in my opinion and very informative. I use the lockboxes mainly for Lobi and traits and I'll buy a couple of keys a month with Dilithium just to see what I get. Tribble testing is a very good way to take one for a test drive. Use it often. Thanks again. Good post and I enjoyed it.
At least you got my point. Lol.
I wasn't attempting to argue or disagree. That is not my intention. I was elaborating and adding some context to your original post abit more by providing more information and another point of view. At no point am I being nasty or bitter about it. And I totally agree with @warpangel's point of view. Yes, there are also people who don't have the self-control I have, but I was pointing out and re-enforcing your own points on the the negative side of the 'Guaranteed Ship' claim.
As for ships, I've been after an Annorax (and others), there have been plenty of times it's not been on the Exchange, and when it is, then it's 1.5 Billion, but I will not part with $300 dollars just for that ship, when I would rather spend that on opening boxes and selling what I don't want for reasonable prices. I've probably spent about $300-400 on keys and R&D Promos in the near 7 years I've played and I've won 2 Kelvin Connies (from 70 opened at one time), Paradox, Elachi Escort, Temporal Destroyer, Tal-Shiar BC, TOS Connie (From opening 13 R&D), Elachi Sheshar Intel (off the top of my head). I've made a few hundred million off selling stuff out of those boxes. Yes, I might be lucky, but I wouldn't fleece a fellow player either, (and yes, I understand 'supply and demand' I studied Business and Finance at college).