For a while (last-2) any new fleet holding has really only been for the fleet leaders to increase their fleet credits to insane levels they really don't need. They only leave stuff they can't finish, or don't want to finish and the fleet is dying pretty fast. And while we are in a major armada with a dedicated web site/forum/etc. even that is dying.
I like the idea someone mentioned of an alliance holding.
I respectively disagree with your first two sentences.
Many fleet leaders, myself included, have had to drastically increase their in-game time and grind, cash to dil, etc from enormous to ridiculous levels to compensate for the fact that things are" dying". And they re-invest the vast majority of fleet credits back into the fleet. Chances are they're also the one's paying for the dedicated website and any voice servers as well. Wish you could stand in a fleet leader's shoes for a year or six. Focus on your third sentence and ask yourself why that is happening.
You've heard it from others: what DR did for the player population and S13 did to the queues, this holding will do to many remaining fleets. Could any of this be related to your third sentence?
On topic: the reason I mentioned this new holding may have to be built at the armada level (above) is that dil costs for higher tiers of this new holding are just plain stupid.
I still love this game and hope it lives long and prospers.
A tiny microscopic plus about the minigames is the devs didn't richard about with the background and left it plain.
The nexus episode mining game conversion for some idiotic reason used a yellow and red background at one point when you have to see and move a red targetting thingy. I'm not colourblind and don't have major sight issues but first time around it was awful.
One question I have is what does the automation unlock for the dil mine actually do?
For a while (last-2) any new fleet holding has really only been for the fleet leaders to increase their fleet credits to insane levels they really don't need. They only leave stuff they can't finish, or don't want to finish and the fleet is dying pretty fast. And while we are in a major armada with a dedicated web site/forum/etc. even that is dying.
I like the idea someone mentioned of an alliance holding.
You are talking about your fleet here. This is not true for any of the fleets I am in (although I am quite unhappy with some of the organization in one of them, this is not an issue).
As for "dying": apart from some things mentioned, this is an eternal part of any MMO because players just move on. Either they have had enough after a couple of years and want to play a different game, or just spend less time in this, or there is major changes in their personal life (children, job, etc.). It's just the way things go.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
It's a beautiful map site, artwork is awesome. Hate the mini games. The holding is way too big in terms of what is needed to complete it due to the amount of players left in the game. I own two fleets "one fed, one kdf" they both have around 480 members but only have 25 - 30 active members in them. This will be pretty tuff to complete with the members that are left.
The amount of provisions needed are ridiculous. If you wanted to help fleets with this holding it should have been fleet marks and not provisions. This will take years to build IMO. You still have time to fix it, please do it now. Thank You!
OK, who's bright idea was it to make the projects only take provisions in stacks of 10? Did you forget the project costs are not divisible by 10? Filling up something like 1046 leaves the last player with 4 provisions that can't be used at all, just wasting inventory space.
I have one request. Please get rid of the 1 hour cd timer on provision missions. The mini-games are tedious enough. Having to log through 5-6 alts and getting each of them to three different locations on the colony map is just plain annoying.
Quests - 3 mini games for 3 resources feels pretty cheap. This is the most boring thing I ever experienced in a fleet holding. This feels like a serious "budget" saving setup and provides no excitement value what so ever.
Gear Vendor - Stuff looks interesting but the path to getting to it could be WAY MORE exciting then what is currently presented.
Story Mission - Not bad, kinda fun but overwhelming with buggies at times. Also more buggies? Oh well.
I am not a fan of the new fleet holding. I don't like the mini-games and would like to see some other way to earn provisions. I like the idea of Doff missions or allowing them to be sold on the exchange.
Hey when are the discovery uniforms coming to the consoles. Aren't we good enough to celebrate the start of discovery at the same time then. Why is it we have to wait longer for offers like this and the pc players get them straight away.
If we are going to have to do a mini-game can we at least turn the 250 into a threshold instead of a hard cap. If I get 200 the first time through then what is the point of trying to do good the second time if I can only get 50. Let me get the rest based on performance.
Right now I'm tempted to make a chart with the range of score to quantity to map out laziness on these mini-games.
Mini games are truly truly awful,
The 'dil' and resources cost are astronomical,
5 tiers is way too long for a holding,
None of the rewards look worthwhile,
And, probably, impossible for a small fleet anyway.
As a small fleet, it's a non-starter.
I completely agree. It is only the 3rd day and I am already fed up with these stupid little mini-games. I did not sign on years ago to STO to have to play the same mini-games "what was it I read"? 50,000 times till the holdings completion. I have noticed since the release of the lock box it has been nothing but retread content. Making you repeat the same missions again and again and OMG GRIND,GRIND,GRIND. Not only do you have the Fleet GRIND but lets not forget the R&D school GRIND, Admiralty GRIND, Reputation (11) GRINDs , Specialization GRIND, Doff GRIND, etc. etc.. It has gotten so bad you have to GRIND tokens to be able to GRIND for provisions now. So we have to GRIND in order to GRIND. I would have thought these guys would have noticed and learned that Fleets are struggling to finish the SB that came out YEARS ago. So what do they do.... Double and Triple down on hated GRINDS and create a holding that is much worse. It is almost as if they HATE there customers. The new Fleet Holding needs to be ripped down and completely reworked correctly "except for the art work". Games are supposed to be FUN and not a GRIND fest. The game has been suffering massive loss of membership for at least 2 years now. But not to worry.... There will be no members left to even try to finish the latest Fleet GRIND on the curse the game is currently on. Try new content. New episodes more than a few times a years. Please Stop the GRIND, GRIND, GRIND that is not why people take the time to play.
For a while (last-2) any new fleet holding has really only been for the fleet leaders to increase their fleet credits to insane levels they really don't need. They only leave stuff they can't finish, or don't want to finish and the fleet is dying pretty fast. And while we are in a major armada with a dedicated web site/forum/etc. even that is dying.
I like the idea someone mentioned of an alliance holding.
I respectively disagree with your first two sentences.
Many fleet leaders, myself included, have had to drastically increase their in-game time and grind, cash to dil, etc from enormous to ridiculous levels to compensate for the fact that things are" dying". And they re-invest the vast majority of fleet credits back into the fleet. Chances are they're also the one's paying for the dedicated website and any voice servers as well. Wish you could stand in a fleet leader's shoes for a year or six. Focus on your third sentence and ask yourself why that is happening.
You've heard it from others: what DR did for the player population and S13 did to the queues, this holding will do to many remaining fleets. Could any of this be related to your third sentence?
On topic: the reason I mentioned this new holding may have to be built at the armada level (above) is that dil costs for higher tiers of this new holding are just plain stupid.
I still love this game and hope it lives long and prospers.
"Here Here"..... I am also a leader/owner of a level 65 fleet and I am making up the difference of falling membership with my own resources. Ex. I show over 42 million in contributions but in reality only have 3.2 million to spend on myself.
It's a beautiful map site, artwork is awesome. Hate the mini games. The holding is way too big in terms of what is needed to complete it due to the amount of players left in the game. I own two fleets "one fed, one kdf" they both have around 480 members but only have 25 - 30 active members in them. This will be pretty tuff to complete with the members that are left.
The amount of provisions needed are ridiculous. If you wanted to help fleets with this holding it should have been fleet marks and not provisions. This will take years to build IMO. You still have time to fix it, please do it now. Thank You!
Yes Soofismack,
I also own a level 65 272 members fleet. I may see 3 or 4 on at any one given time as they are scattered all over the world. If I had to guess I may only have 20 to 30 actually get on line daily. Now years ago the new members used to last 90 to 180 days. I think the game has gone from content to GRIND and now a new recruit that just joined STO and my Fleet takes a look around at all the GRINDING that must be done and leaves in less than a week. Also I have tried massive recruiting campaigns however with the ever shrinking STO customer base it is extremely difficult to get new recruits to off set the incredible costs of a new Fleet holding as they have so many other GRINDS that they need to do in-game just to catch up.
I am not a fan of the new fleet holding. I don't like the mini-games and would like to see some other way to earn provisions. I like the idea of Doff missions or allowing them to be sold on the exchange.
Perhaps the initial part will be the most taxing with respect to provisions. Here's two photos taken in Tribble from a T4+ Colony holding which would include any Tier 3 Dilithium Mine and armada Beta fleet discounts showing the number of provisions self generated per day. When you add the automated goods collection (AGC) and combine it with the ability to queue defense scenarios things might go a little quicker, with less mini-games if you want to rely upon this mechanic to go along in a time gated manner. The first AGC unlock comes when your holding is Tier 1, along with a project to provide a fleet transwarp to Colony and the ability to slot projects to generate defense scenario provisions which you can do with whomever you like (not just members of your fleet).
I have seen that VERY good idea come up in the forums, Reddit, and YouTube often now. I sorry to see that it has fallen on deaf ears. If we MUST keep the provision system the way it is out of sear stubbornness than yes an alternate solution MUST be found. Being able to list them for sale on the exchange would solve a world of sins with this problem. With the R&D pretty much out of date now it is very difficult to make EC on the exchange. 1)The Provisions would allow and open a whole new market breathing life in a dying exchange. 2) It would entice players to get involved in a fleet in order to have access to the development of these said provisions, solving the ever shrinking pool of recruitment prospects in the shrinking player base. 3) For small and mid-size fleets it would allow and alternative to the HATED and Unpleasant Mini-games that clearly NO one is going to play in order to complete a project.
I am not a fan of the new fleet holding. I don't like the mini-games and would like to see some other way to earn provisions. I like the idea of Doff missions or allowing them to be sold on the exchange.
I have seen that VERY good idea come up in the forums, Reddit, and YouTube often now. I sorry to see that it has fallen on deaf ears. If we MUST keep the provision system the way it is out of sear stubbornness than yes an alternate solution MUST be found. Being able to list them for sale on the exchange would solve a world of sins with this problem. With the R&D pretty much out of date now it is very difficult to make EC on the exchange. 1)The Provisions would allow and open a whole new market breathing life in a dying exchange. 2) It would entice players to get involved in a fleet in order to have access to the development of these said provisions, solving the ever shrinking pool of recruitment prospects in the shrinking player base. 3) For small and mid-size fleets it would allow and alternative to the HATED and Unpleasant Mini-games that clearly NO one is going to play in order to complete a project.
The pay to build option has been removed (aside from the dil) as has the re-investment of fleet credits option which in turn eliminates pay to build again. Now it's play to build. I think if you you were able to sell provisions on the exchange you'd find them not to affordable as they'd quickly be snapped up by the wealthier fleets and/or traders.
Via doffing? Am fine with that and a bit surprised it wasn't included. Also glad they've been included in some queues as was suggested in the test thread (thanks Cryptic).
Don't know if you were around for the dosi-rotgut debacle for fed fleets. An almost worthless commodity produced via doffing suddenly sold for for several hundred thousand times it's face value when it was needed to build a bartender on your Star base. Did this really do anybody any good?
It would entice players to get involved in a fleet in order to have access to the development of these said provisions
So much for members moving the holding forward when they sell them instead of using them in fleet projects. Mini-games for profit with fleet leadership buying them for you. Then fleet leaders could add buying keys with zen for EC to buying dil with zen to their list. There's a thread on that. Maybe play to build ain't that bad after all.
For even small fleets to get to tier 1 where automated goods collection starts only 6 people need to do 1 round of mini-games to flip a project. It takes 10 projects to get a sub-holding to tier 1 plus the upgrade project.
No, I'm not fond of mini-games either but in a smaller fleet all 3 projects are being flipped daily.
It's a beautiful map site, artwork is awesome. Hate the mini games. The holding is way too big in terms of what is needed to complete it due to the amount of players left in the game. I own two fleets "one fed, one kdf" they both have around 480 members but only have 25 - 30 active members in them. This will be pretty tuff to complete with the members that are left.
The amount of provisions needed are ridiculous. If you wanted to help fleets with this holding it should have been fleet marks and not provisions. This will take years to build IMO. You still have time to fix it, please do it now. Thank You!
You mean "the amount of players left in the fleet". Neither would a shrinking population hinder fleets, if they combined, nor would a stable or growing population help if it was outside of your fleet and you didn't get new recruits.
Let's face it, MMOs have a huge player turnover, and a fleet that doesn't keep up with recruiting is going to have troubles, no matter how good STO is doing.
OK, who's bright idea was it to make the projects only take provisions in stacks of 10? Did you forget the project costs are not divisible by 10? Filling up something like 1046 leaves the last player with 4 provisions that can't be used at all, just wasting inventory space.
Remove that 10-only rule.
Well, you can sell them for 400 apiece at at 50% trader, or recycle them for 320. Actually, a whole round of minigames would earn you 300k if not used but sold.
I have one request. Please get rid of the 1 hour cd timer on provision missions. The mini-games are tedious enough. Having to log through 5-6 alts and getting each of them to three different locations on the colony map is just plain annoying.
Wouldn't work. (a) infinite money (see point before, it comes down with the mining game to 100k ec per minute, with particle collection even per 50 secs if you can get the 250 in one go). (b) Fleets would become even more of a one person show (or few people), that's not what they're there for. It's cooperation. If you do have 5 active fleet members, you don't need cooldowns or multiple toons at all, daily projects will run easily.
I have seen that VERY good idea come up in the forums, Reddit, and YouTube often now. I sorry to see that it has fallen on deaf ears. If we MUST keep the provision system the way it is out of sear stubbornness than yes an alternate solution MUST be found. (...)
Talking about stubbornness... no, it doesn't have to. When there is an aspect of play you don't like, you basically have for options:
(a) grumblingly accept and take part
(b) ignore said part of the game
(c) decide that "enough is enough" and go
(d) voice your displeasure and ask (!) for a change
There is no "must" here, much less in ALL CAPS. Especially not to adhere to your idea of a better system, when others may feel differently.
For the record: I am not a huge fan of the minigames-for-provisions system to say the least. But this is blown way out of proportion after nary a week, and reeks of entitlement in the order of "I want everything spoon fed to me".
With the R&D pretty much out of date now it is very difficult to make EC on the exchange. 1)The Provisions would allow and open a whole new market breathing life in a dying exchange. 2) It would entice players to get involved in a fleet in order to have access to the development of these said provisions, solving the ever shrinking pool of recruitment prospects in the shrinking player base. 3) For small and mid-size fleets it would allow and alternative to the HATED and Unpleasant Mini-games that clearly NO one is going to play in order to complete a project.
The main idea of the exchange is that people get things for money if they find it more convenient to gather the money from people who offer them because they prefer the money, either because they have something they don't need but others may or because they consider "working for it" worth their time. The exchange offers opportunities for major gains. But there is no right to make these, and to continue making these you'll have to adapt to changing circumstances. There never was the "one way" to print money on the exchange.
As for the "shrinking player base" - I'd like a cite. Not that I cannot imagine it happening in a years-old MMO which never was one of the hugest, but what are the indicators? If anything, to me it seems like it's still doing fairly well for its age and techncial outdatedness, considering the major investments going on (adding VOs to old missions, expansion to console, ...)
And as for the "NO one is going to play" (all caps again) - that's clearly not true. If you at least wrote "... wants to play", it could be seen as a rhetorical device, but alas...
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
> @daverreon said: > The map/layout is nice. I wish there were more to do like on New Romulus. > > This is not a tier 5 holding. Basically, this is a tier 3 holding that was stretched out to accommodate 5 tiers. Pare it back to 3 tiers. > > The mini-games are not fun and contribute to carpal tunnel. Captains should be able to assign doffs to collect these provisions.
Its 5 tiers so that it can suck a lot more dilithium out of the game than a 3 tier holding would - no other reason.
Cryptics typical 'knee jerk' response to try to ballance the easy way dilithium can be aquired from the Admiralty system.
Between the Colony Defense Scenario (perhaps run by asking for teams in DPS Bronze) and the automated way to generate provisions I could imagine that 3-5 peeps in a fleet can come up with the needed provisions for Tier 4 onwards if they dedicate an hour to this activity each day. That is "Ok" imo.
What I don’t see however is where these absurd amounts of Dil are supposed to come from. This alone will pose a dead end for pretty much all fleets around Tier 3 - 4. What I find funny is the nativity of most peeps saying “Smaller fleets may have problems” as larger fleets only consist of more players not donating Dil.
Nobody except for whales willing to buy *literally* all that Dil that is currently available on the exchange for their fleet will see it ever reach Tier 5 in 2018. I rather expect no fleets, no matter if large or small, to max this holding out if the figures given on tribble last time hit holodeck that way. We talk about 60-80 million and we gain nothing of remote worth from the holding in return.
Only the scaling of the tiers gets peeps eager to start at all here. General disappointment will set in around Tier 3. It will all be for nothing with lots of time wasted.
This is really a bad release from cryptic and a huge middle finger towards those who cared about holdings so far.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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I think, the Ground idea of the new holding was good, but the implementation is really bad.
You have create a really good Space and Ground Map. But the amounts of resources to reach T5 are unrealistic.
How many Fleets can do that??? Not many. It gives so many fleets with a hugh number of player, but they allready dead. I do not know any fleet that will start this project at all. Too many player are gone since Season 13.
The problem is: You do not work together with the community. You do not anything new. You change things in the game and tell nobody about it. You get suggestions but do not accept them.
[b]You no longer develop the game for the players.[/b]
And the results are:
Many players run away from the game.
Players who are badly needed to build up this holding company and keep the game alive.
Players who brings money into your game and company. Maybe you forget that.
Very many players are so unhappy with you and your style to develop a game. There is a good market that starts to die. And that's just because you ignore the community.
It does not matter if you are a fleet leader, armada leader or the single owner of a small fleet. ALL should read the tribble notes and real testers feedback here:
Educate yourselves before posting incoherent or emotional feelings about the new holding. Test it for yourselves if you don't believe what others think.
It is obvious that most humans are negative by nature but after seeing so many people testing this at tribble including myself the common view is that this is probably the worst design that STO had ever had since Delta Rising came about. Again, do not take my word for it not even the extensive feedback collected in tribble but test it for yourselves...still open at tribble.
....The projected completion time is mentioned in my MATH post on page 2 (Tribble feedback). Assuming you have no idle times and no stalling because of missing contributions you could start the first T5 upgrades somewhere around 230 days after beginning construction. Those 230 days do NOT include the four 14 day T5 upgrades you still need to run at that point. It neither includes any project timer decreases nor running xp projects faster than once per day either.
I do remain optimistic and hope Devs would still take some good feedback from people to make this holding better.
As suggestion I would:
- Colony project requirements should be cut back by 25% to 50%.
- Add provisions to the rewards for existing fleet space queues: Colony Invasion queus, Fleet Alerts, Starbase Fleet Defense.
ANY fleet related stuff.
- Eliminate timegates for minigames or cut them back to 30mins instead of 1hr.
- A colony with no colonists? Who thought about that one? Cut back on Provisions and add DOFFs requirements for Colonists. Or add other DOFFs needed to "create" a colony...Civilians, doctors, etc.
I hope they would still work on it but who knows...it might still remained as another yet time sink and grindfest.
> @usskentucky said: > 1. Create transporter pads at each provisioning location (saves several minutes of travel) > > 2. Reduce daily contribution requirements from 1048 to 1000 to allow four rounds to fill the 1000xp assignment instead of five. > > 3. Allow player's characters to stay on the map after running an STF or logging out (cuts down on a minute or two loading). > > 4. Offer a tutorial on how to get each resource (took me forever to find them manually after I didn't notice the mission officer, and I still have no idea how the combat token system works) > > 5. Make provisions tradeable on the exchange. > > 6. Enable jet packs. > > 7. Make DOFF assignments in the most recently developed sectors of the Alpha quadrant that award the provisions. > > 8. Explain which STFs award which provisions and make sure that each type can be acquired in three different ways: mini-games, STFs, DOFFs. > > 9. Require one grind session instead of two to earn the hourly reward from the mini game. > > 10. Reduce the cool down to at least 30 minutes on minigames. > > As you can see my suggestions mostly revolve around making the provision requirements more maneageable. The map is beautiful. The overarching story behind the holding is good. The gear looks promising. And it could be a nice addition. But I am a Fleet Admiral in a small fleet. I know the handful of us left are never going to get this thing done as quick as the big fleets. But we're not going to abandon our otherwise maxed out fleet, either. If you want players like me to use this holding then you are asking us to completely forgo the other aspects of the game---PVE, stories, PVP, etc. Just not enough hours in the day to grind this holding AND play the game unless you're able to play 4-5 hours a day, which I just don't have time to do. > >
Ditto all of these... Well thought out and I had each one in mind coming here...
I would also add:
11. Let us keep the rewards we get out of the mini games, instead of chopping the second run (got 225 your first run? We'll only give you 25 on your next shot for doing just as good as the first one!)
12. Let the goal of accomplishing the 250 of each provision earn the player another reward, out more of a random type of provision.
13. Also, someone at Cryptic, whoever LOVES the idea of daily grinds, needs to realize that the more a player stays on the same map in the game, the less time is spent on other parts of the game. If it were less demanding to earn the provisions, I might have more time to play the FE, or grind fleet marks, or visit other posts of the game that someone spent time and effort to create!
Just my thoughts... CM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
I think as a fleet holding it is just too much.
If it was an armada holding it would have been fine, but this is just too much of a grind for the few active players left. In general fleet projects are going quite slow due to most of the players 'needing' there dilithium elswere. Or in the case of the KDF, even too few players to get the fleetmarks most of the time.
Comments
I respectively disagree with your first two sentences.
Many fleet leaders, myself included, have had to drastically increase their in-game time and grind, cash to dil, etc from enormous to ridiculous levels to compensate for the fact that things are" dying". And they re-invest the vast majority of fleet credits back into the fleet. Chances are they're also the one's paying for the dedicated website and any voice servers as well. Wish you could stand in a fleet leader's shoes for a year or six. Focus on your third sentence and ask yourself why that is happening.
You've heard it from others: what DR did for the player population and S13 did to the queues, this holding will do to many remaining fleets. Could any of this be related to your third sentence?
On topic: the reason I mentioned this new holding may have to be built at the armada level (above) is that dil costs for higher tiers of this new holding are just plain stupid.
I still love this game and hope it lives long and prospers.
The nexus episode mining game conversion for some idiotic reason used a yellow and red background at one point when you have to see and move a red targetting thingy. I'm not colourblind and don't have major sight issues but first time around it was awful.
One question I have is what does the automation unlock for the dil mine actually do?
You are talking about your fleet here. This is not true for any of the fleets I am in (although I am quite unhappy with some of the organization in one of them, this is not an issue).
As for "dying": apart from some things mentioned, this is an eternal part of any MMO because players just move on. Either they have had enough after a couple of years and want to play a different game, or just spend less time in this, or there is major changes in their personal life (children, job, etc.). It's just the way things go.
The amount of provisions needed are ridiculous. If you wanted to help fleets with this holding it should have been fleet marks and not provisions. This will take years to build IMO. You still have time to fix it, please do it now. Thank You!
Remove that 10-only rule.
Quests - 3 mini games for 3 resources feels pretty cheap. This is the most boring thing I ever experienced in a fleet holding. This feels like a serious "budget" saving setup and provides no excitement value what so ever.
Gear Vendor - Stuff looks interesting but the path to getting to it could be WAY MORE exciting then what is currently presented.
Story Mission - Not bad, kinda fun but overwhelming with buggies at times. Also more buggies? Oh well.
Right now I'm tempted to make a chart with the range of score to quantity to map out laziness on these mini-games.
Edit: please add ramps in the water to jump.
I also own a level 65 272 members fleet. I may see 3 or 4 on at any one given time as they are scattered all over the world. If I had to guess I may only have 20 to 30 actually get on line daily. Now years ago the new members used to last 90 to 180 days. I think the game has gone from content to GRIND and now a new recruit that just joined STO and my Fleet takes a look around at all the GRINDING that must be done and leaves in less than a week. Also I have tried massive recruiting campaigns however with the ever shrinking STO customer base it is extremely difficult to get new recruits to off set the incredible costs of a new Fleet holding as they have so many other GRINDS that they need to do in-game just to catch up.
*Armada level 259. Alpha = 1.75% dil discount Beta = 3.5% Gamma = 7%
You mean "the amount of players left in the fleet". Neither would a shrinking population hinder fleets, if they combined, nor would a stable or growing population help if it was outside of your fleet and you didn't get new recruits.
Let's face it, MMOs have a huge player turnover, and a fleet that doesn't keep up with recruiting is going to have troubles, no matter how good STO is doing.
Well, you can sell them for 400 apiece at at 50% trader, or recycle them for 320. Actually, a whole round of minigames would earn you 300k if not used but sold.
Wouldn't work. (a) infinite money (see point before, it comes down with the mining game to 100k ec per minute, with particle collection even per 50 secs if you can get the 250 in one go). (b) Fleets would become even more of a one person show (or few people), that's not what they're there for. It's cooperation. If you do have 5 active fleet members, you don't need cooldowns or multiple toons at all, daily projects will run easily.
Talking about stubbornness... no, it doesn't have to. When there is an aspect of play you don't like, you basically have for options:
(a) grumblingly accept and take part
(b) ignore said part of the game
(c) decide that "enough is enough" and go
(d) voice your displeasure and ask (!) for a change
There is no "must" here, much less in ALL CAPS. Especially not to adhere to your idea of a better system, when others may feel differently.
For the record: I am not a huge fan of the minigames-for-provisions system to say the least. But this is blown way out of proportion after nary a week, and reeks of entitlement in the order of "I want everything spoon fed to me".
The main idea of the exchange is that people get things for money if they find it more convenient to gather the money from people who offer them because they prefer the money, either because they have something they don't need but others may or because they consider "working for it" worth their time. The exchange offers opportunities for major gains. But there is no right to make these, and to continue making these you'll have to adapt to changing circumstances. There never was the "one way" to print money on the exchange.
As for the "shrinking player base" - I'd like a cite. Not that I cannot imagine it happening in a years-old MMO which never was one of the hugest, but what are the indicators? If anything, to me it seems like it's still doing fairly well for its age and techncial outdatedness, considering the major investments going on (adding VOs to old missions, expansion to console, ...)
And as for the "NO one is going to play" (all caps again) - that's clearly not true. If you at least wrote "... wants to play", it could be seen as a rhetorical device, but alas...
This is not a tier 5 holding. Basically, this is a tier 3 holding that was stretched out to accommodate 5 tiers. Pare it back to 3 tiers.
The mini-games are not fun and contribute to carpal tunnel. Captains should be able to assign doffs to collect these provisions.
> The map/layout is nice. I wish there were more to do like on New Romulus.
>
> This is not a tier 5 holding. Basically, this is a tier 3 holding that was stretched out to accommodate 5 tiers. Pare it back to 3 tiers.
>
> The mini-games are not fun and contribute to carpal tunnel. Captains should be able to assign doffs to collect these provisions.
Its 5 tiers so that it can suck a lot more dilithium out of the game than a 3 tier holding would - no other reason.
Cryptics typical 'knee jerk' response to try to ballance the easy way dilithium can be aquired from the Admiralty system.
What I don’t see however is where these absurd amounts of Dil are supposed to come from. This alone will pose a dead end for pretty much all fleets around Tier 3 - 4. What I find funny is the nativity of most peeps saying “Smaller fleets may have problems” as larger fleets only consist of more players not donating Dil.
Nobody except for whales willing to buy *literally* all that Dil that is currently available on the exchange for their fleet will see it ever reach Tier 5 in 2018. I rather expect no fleets, no matter if large or small, to max this holding out if the figures given on tribble last time hit holodeck that way. We talk about 60-80 million and we gain nothing of remote worth from the holding in return.
Only the scaling of the tiers gets peeps eager to start at all here. General disappointment will set in around Tier 3. It will all be for nothing with lots of time wasted.
This is really a bad release from cryptic and a huge middle finger towards those who cared about holdings so far.
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You have create a really good Space and Ground Map. But the amounts of resources to reach T5 are unrealistic.
How many Fleets can do that??? Not many. It gives so many fleets with a hugh number of player, but they allready dead.
I do not know any fleet that will start this project at all. Too many player are gone since Season 13.
The problem is:
You do not work together with the community.
You do not anything new.
You change things in the game and tell nobody about it.
You get suggestions but do not accept them.
[b]You no longer develop the game for the players.[/b]
And the results are:
Many players run away from the game.
Players who are badly needed to build up this holding company and keep the game alive.
Players who brings money into your game and company. Maybe you forget that.
Very many players are so unhappy with you and your style to develop a game.
There is a good market that starts to die. And that's just because you ignore the community.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1234390/official-feedback-thread-for-dranuur-colony-fleet-holding
Educate yourselves before posting incoherent or emotional feelings about the new holding. Test it for yourselves if you don't believe what others think.
It is obvious that most humans are negative by nature but after seeing so many people testing this at tribble including myself the common view is that this is probably the worst design that STO had ever had since Delta Rising came about. Again, do not take my word for it not even the extensive feedback collected in tribble but test it for yourselves...still open at tribble.
Here's an idea of how much completion might take:
I do remain optimistic and hope Devs would still take some good feedback from people to make this holding better.
As suggestion I would:
- Colony project requirements should be cut back by 25% to 50%.
- Add provisions to the rewards for existing fleet space queues: Colony Invasion queus, Fleet Alerts, Starbase Fleet Defense.
ANY fleet related stuff.
- Eliminate timegates for minigames or cut them back to 30mins instead of 1hr.
- A colony with no colonists? Who thought about that one? Cut back on Provisions and add DOFFs requirements for Colonists. Or add other DOFFs needed to "create" a colony...Civilians, doctors, etc.
I hope they would still work on it but who knows...it might still remained as another yet time sink and grindfest.
> 1. Create transporter pads at each provisioning location (saves several minutes of travel)
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> 2. Reduce daily contribution requirements from 1048 to 1000 to allow four rounds to fill the 1000xp assignment instead of five.
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> 3. Allow player's characters to stay on the map after running an STF or logging out (cuts down on a minute or two loading).
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> 4. Offer a tutorial on how to get each resource (took me forever to find them manually after I didn't notice the mission officer, and I still have no idea how the combat token system works)
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> 5. Make provisions tradeable on the exchange.
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> 6. Enable jet packs.
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> 7. Make DOFF assignments in the most recently developed sectors of the Alpha quadrant that award the provisions.
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> 8. Explain which STFs award which provisions and make sure that each type can be acquired in three different ways: mini-games, STFs, DOFFs.
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> 9. Require one grind session instead of two to earn the hourly reward from the mini game.
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> 10. Reduce the cool down to at least 30 minutes on minigames.
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> As you can see my suggestions mostly revolve around making the provision requirements more maneageable. The map is beautiful. The overarching story behind the holding is good. The gear looks promising. And it could be a nice addition. But I am a Fleet Admiral in a small fleet. I know the handful of us left are never going to get this thing done as quick as the big fleets. But we're not going to abandon our otherwise maxed out fleet, either. If you want players like me to use this holding then you are asking us to completely forgo the other aspects of the game---PVE, stories, PVP, etc. Just not enough hours in the day to grind this holding AND play the game unless you're able to play 4-5 hours a day, which I just don't have time to do.
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Ditto all of these... Well thought out and I had each one in mind coming here...
I would also add:
11. Let us keep the rewards we get out of the mini games, instead of chopping the second run (got 225 your first run? We'll only give you 25 on your next shot for doing just as good as the first one!)
12. Let the goal of accomplishing the 250 of each provision earn the player another reward, out more of a random type of provision.
13. Also, someone at Cryptic, whoever LOVES the idea of daily grinds, needs to realize that the more a player stays on the same map in the game, the less time is spent on other parts of the game. If it were less demanding to earn the provisions, I might have more time to play the FE, or grind fleet marks, or visit other posts of the game that someone spent time and effort to create!
Just my thoughts...
CM
If it was an armada holding it would have been fine, but this is just too much of a grind for the few active players left. In general fleet projects are going quite slow due to most of the players 'needing' there dilithium elswere. Or in the case of the KDF, even too few players to get the fleetmarks most of the time.
My character Tsin'xing
https://sto.gamepedia.com/List_of_colony_world_projects
On the end it costs 72 million Dil. this is to much.